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simfreakforever
11th Apr 2009, 9:42 PM
I hope V1ND1CARE that you don't mind that I have created this tutorial, because I saw that you discovered how to build caves/true sunken basements, but I was able to figure out how to to make the sunken basement from your journal entry (http://www.modthesims2.com/journal.php?do=showentry&e=3604)

Thus, I have written this tutorial while we wiat for a tutorial from V1ND1CARE to come out, which will be far superior than what I have written, but as I know that there are many people interested in knowing how to do this, I have written this tutorial for now.


UPDATE: I have posted the tutorial here now. You can still find the old tutorial at The Sims 2.com at:
Here is the link to the tutorial:
http://thesims2.ea.com/exchange/story_detail.php?asset_id=264198&asset_type=story&user_id=64982

-------------------

How to Create a True/Sunken Basement without Sloping Ground

REQUIREMENTS:
In order complete this tutorial, you will need:
• The Invisible Floor Tile (from this site) http://www.modthesims2.com/download.php?t=166311
• At least, The Sims 2 Open for Business Expansion Pack, or any one after
• Some knowledge of the CFE Cheat (boolProp constrainfloorelevation (true/false)
• Recommended: Read V1ND1CARE’s Reducing Wall Heights Below 4 Clicks Tutorial (http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=190663)


Welcome to this tutorial! This idea of a sunken basement/cave idea was discovered by V1ND1CARE at MTS2, who, by the way, is just an absolutely amazing builder! However, because many people have been waiting for a tutorial for this, I decided to create this one, as I figured out how to do this finally.

http://modthesims2.com/static/images/salvaged_tutorials/simfreakforever_sunken_basement/simfreakforever-SunkenBasements-_0033_Layer%200.jpg

Now, let's get started with this tutorial!

Step 1: First, begin with a flat lot/level lot...

http://modthesims2.com/static/images/salvaged_tutorials/simfreakforever_sunken_basement/simfreakforever-SunkenBasements-_0032_Layer%201.jpg


Step 2:
Now, using the modular stairs tool, create something similar to the picture as show. What we are doing is saving some time and dropping down one level in the ground.
http://modthesims2.com/static/images/salvaged_tutorials/simfreakforever_sunken_basement/simfreakforever-SunkenBasements-_0031_Layer%202.jpg

Step 3:
Delete the stairs, then, from the lowest part we just created, level the rest of the lot to that height.
http://modthesims2.com/static/images/salvaged_tutorials/simfreakforever_sunken_basement/simfreakforever-SunkenBasements-_0030_Layer%203.jpg

Step 4:
Finish leveling off the lot...
http://modthesims2.com/static/images/salvaged_tutorials/simfreakforever_sunken_basement/simfreakforever-SunkenBasements-_0029_Layer%204.jpg

Step 5:
Now, using the modular stairs tool again, add five stairs like so...
http://modthesims2.com/static/images/salvaged_tutorials/simfreakforever_sunken_basement/simfreakforever-SunkenBasements-_0028_Layer%205.jpg

Step 6:
Then delete the stairs and level the lot off from the lowest point.
http://modthesims2.com/static/images/salvaged_tutorials/simfreakforever_sunken_basement/simfreakforever-SunkenBasements-_0027_Layer%206.jpg

Step 7:
Finish leveling the lot...
http://modthesims2.com/static/images/salvaged_tutorials/simfreakforever_sunken_basement/simfreakforever-SunkenBasements-_0026_Layer%207.jpg


Step 8:
Now, in the corners of the lot, add two 1 x 1 foundations
http://modthesims2.com/static/images/salvaged_tutorials/simfreakforever_sunken_basement/simfreakforever-SunkenBasements-_0025_Layer%208.jpg


Step 9:
One top of each foundation, add a diagonal wall. These will be our scaffolds we will use when it comes time to use the CFE cheat.
http://modthesims2.com/static/images/salvaged_tutorials/simfreakforever_sunken_basement/simfreakforever-SunkenBasements-_0024_Layer%209.jpg


Step 10:
Now, for this tutorial, I am going to create only a small house. So, create on the ground outline of your house.
http://modthesims2.com/static/images/salvaged_tutorials/simfreakforever_sunken_basement/simfreakforever-SunkenBasements-_0023_Layer%2010.jpg


Step 11:
On top of the first floor, build the second level. The second floor will become the basement floor, as you will see later on.
http://modthesims2.com/static/images/salvaged_tutorials/simfreakforever_sunken_basement/simfreakforever-SunkenBasements-_0022_Layer%2011.jpg


Step 12:
Now, on your keyboard, hit Ctrl + Shift + C to open the cheat box. Then, type in the cheat, boolprop constrainfloorelevation false. With this cheat, enter into the terrain tool, and use the level terrain tool used earlier from the second floor tile of the first scaffold, and drag it over to the tile of the second floor tile of the other scaffold
http://modthesims2.com/static/images/salvaged_tutorials/simfreakforever_sunken_basement/simfreakforever-SunkenBasements-_0021_Layer%2012.jpg


Step 13:
There! You have reduced the second floor of the ground building to only four clicks high! This is an important step in creating the sunken basement, as it will allow us further manipulate the height of the wall.
http://modthesims2.com/static/images/salvaged_tutorials/simfreakforever_sunken_basement/simfreakforever-SunkenBasements-_0020_Layer%2013.jpg


Step 14:
With the CFE cheat still set on false, with the largest raise terrain tool on, raise the house high into the sky like so.
http://modthesims2.com/static/images/salvaged_tutorials/simfreakforever_sunken_basement/simfreakforever-SunkenBasements-_0019_Layer%2014.jpg


Step 15:
Continue doing so with the other sides of the house...
http://modthesims2.com/static/images/salvaged_tutorials/simfreakforever_sunken_basement/simfreakforever-SunkenBasements-_0018_Layer%2015.jpg


...and keep raising the other sides...
http://modthesims2.com/static/images/salvaged_tutorials/simfreakforever_sunken_basement/simfreakforever-SunkenBasements-_0017_Layer%2016.jpg


Step 16:
Now, with the raise terrain tool set to raise only one tile, raise the rest of the tiles until the floor is level. This is a very time consuming process! Note: you can not use the level terrain tool during this part of the process, otherwise, what we will do in the next few steps will not work, as I will explain later on.
http://modthesims2.com/static/images/salvaged_tutorials/simfreakforever_sunken_basement/simfreakforever-SunkenBasements-_0016_Layer%2017.jpg


...as you can see, this is a very long process!
http://modthesims2.com/static/images/salvaged_tutorials/simfreakforever_sunken_basement/simfreakforever-SunkenBasements-_0015_Layer%2018.jpg


Step 17:
There! The house is all level now. Now, it's time to enter the cheat boolprop constrainfloorelevation true.
http://modthesims2.com/static/images/salvaged_tutorials/simfreakforever_sunken_basement/simfreakforever-SunkenBasements-_0014_Layer%2019.jpg


Step 18:
After entering the cheat, start hitting Ctrl + Z on the keyboard, or pushing the undo numerous times. What we are doing is lowering the ground back to how it was before we began raising it. However, you will notice that the house stays at the height it was at!
http://modthesims2.com/static/images/salvaged_tutorials/simfreakforever_sunken_basement/simfreakforever-SunkenBasements-_0013_Layer%2020.jpg


Step 19:
Once you get near the back to the ground almost being level again, start letting off of hitting ctrl + z or hitting the undo button...
http://modthesims2.com/static/images/salvaged_tutorials/simfreakforever_sunken_basement/simfreakforever-SunkenBasements-_0012_Layer%2021.jpg


Step 20:
Here, the ground is level again, but you need to hit undo one more time!
http://modthesims2.com/static/images/salvaged_tutorials/simfreakforever_sunken_basement/simfreakforever-SunkenBasements-_0011_Layer%2022.jpg


Step 21:
And now hit redo! Had you used the level tool instead of raising each tile individually, this trick would not work. I don't know why, but it doesn't.
http://modthesims2.com/static/images/salvaged_tutorials/simfreakforever_sunken_basement/simfreakforever-SunkenBasements-_0010_Layer%2023.jpg


Step 22:
Delete the first story ground walls, and you should have a second floor that looks like this! It looks pretty strange! What we did was lowered the walls below 4 wall clicks and into subzero clicks, if that makes sense. What this will allow us to do is to raise the ground up as high as the second story, over the wall, without having to use the CFE cheat! However, it will not allow you to raise the ground over the height of this wall, but we will not be building that high.
http://modthesims2.com/static/images/salvaged_tutorials/simfreakforever_sunken_basement/simfreakforever-SunkenBasements-_0009_Layer%2024.jpg


Step 23:
First though, lay down any floor tile on grid the wall is on. You may need to go into top down view in order to see it though.
http://modthesims2.com/static/images/salvaged_tutorials/simfreakforever_sunken_basement/simfreakforever-SunkenBasements-_0008_Layer%2025.jpg



Step 24:
Now, while in biuld mode, enter in the cheat box, deleteallwalls. This will delete those funny looking walls. With the floor tiles on the grid though, we can build normal walls over them, and the ground will still raise over them. However, it can be tricky building on this grid, so I recommend using the top down view to lay the walls.
http://modthesims2.com/static/images/salvaged_tutorials/simfreakforever_sunken_basement/simfreakforever-SunkenBasements-_0007_Layer%2026.jpg


Step 25:
At this point, you should have a two story house that looks similar to this. Now, delete the foundations you used for your scaffolds from earlier...
http://modthesims2.com/static/images/salvaged_tutorials/simfreakforever_sunken_basement/simfreakforever-SunkenBasements-_0006_Layer%2027.jpg



Step 26:
...and level the ground.
http://modthesims2.com/static/images/salvaged_tutorials/simfreakforever_sunken_basement/simfreakforever-SunkenBasements-_0005_Layer%2028.jpg



Step 27:
To finish leveling the ground, use a floor tile to level the ground
http://modthesims2.com/static/images/salvaged_tutorials/simfreakforever_sunken_basement/simfreakforever-SunkenBasements-_0004_Layer%2029.jpg




Step 28:
...and it raise the ground up!
http://modthesims2.com/static/images/salvaged_tutorials/simfreakforever_sunken_basement/simfreakforever-SunkenBasements-_0003_Layer%2030.jpg


Step 29:
Delete the floor tiles, and you will have something that looks like this! But, as you will notice, you can't see into the lower level! However, this is where the invisible floor tile comes in!
http://modthesims2.com/static/images/salvaged_tutorials/simfreakforever_sunken_basement/simfreakforever-SunkenBasements-_0002_Layer%2031.jpg



Step 30:
When you go down to the lowest level, place the invisible floor tile on the ground. This will reveal the lower level! However, you may not be able to place a door on the upper level...
http://modthesims2.com/static/images/salvaged_tutorials/simfreakforever_sunken_basement/simfreakforever-SunkenBasements-_0001_Layer%2032.jpg



Step 31: The Final Step (of this tutorial)
...to fix that, we can build a third story, and place stairs going up to it like so! And that's all there is to creating a sunken basement. Using this same technique, you can create "caves". Instead of digging down with the modular stairs at the begging of the tutorial, just begin building on the top ground layer! I hope you enjoyed this tutorial! Happy simming!
http://modthesims2.com/static/images/salvaged_tutorials/simfreakforever_sunken_basement/simfreakforever-SunkenBasements-_0000_Layer%2033.jpg

poplers
17th Apr 2009, 5:08 AM
Is there an issue with the shadows with the sunken basement or is that just your games shadows?

simfreakforever
19th Apr 2009, 6:13 PM
I believe the shadows are caused by the upper floors. Essentially, the basement is the second floor just floating in the air, so I believe that is what is causing the shadows.

I think the shadows are not as much of a problem if the basement is not entirely sunken and the top of the room is showing a bit above the ground. At least when I have built a house with a basement that is not entirely below the ground, I could place windows and it would light up the house on the lower level. Hopefully this helps :-)

BrokenPiece
21st Apr 2009, 3:39 PM
thanks for this tutorial even though I think I'm not gonna use this. XD I also read V1ND1CARE's tutorial, but I didn't really uderstand that one. I do understand this one, but it's still sooooo much work. XD I'm too lazy for that. But at least I understand now so if i ever want to I could build a basement. :3

plasticbox
21st Apr 2009, 4:41 PM
Thanks for this massively useful tutorial (and in particular for liberating it from the Exchange)! I've stickied it, because this is something that people have been asking about for a long time.

Bailey Weggins
22nd Apr 2009, 12:33 PM
This doesn't work for me :(
Step 18 tells me to hit undo until the ground is level again, then to hit undo one more time and redo (redo doesn’t change anything, I’m afraid).
Problem is, I can’t delete the ground walls like you say in step 22. It’s like one gigantic wall, like in the picture I attached.
Can you please tell me what I've done wrong?

simfreakforever
22nd Apr 2009, 7:11 PM
I'm not sure what went wrong. You may have had to hit the undo button one more time before hitting redo. If it helps, you should watch the position of hte second floor grid too when you are using the undo-redo trick. When you hit redo, the second floor grid level should drop down a bit.

When using the undo-redo trick, you have to remember back to the step where you lowered the wall to four clicks. When using the undo-redo trick, you should undo so that the second story wall returns back to its normal 16-click height, and then hit redo so that the second story wall will shrink to below 4 clicks. I hope this helps. Just let me know if that sounds too confusing and I'll try to find another way to explain it :-)

Mootilda
25th Apr 2009, 11:12 PM
[Update]
Please note that this technique is now obsolete. There's a much easier method now available. Check out post # 62 in the TS2GridAdjuster download thread for a tutorial.

No CC required!
[End Update]

I just made a "real" basement using the TS2GridAdjuster:
http://www.modthesims2.com/download.php?t=327439

If you want to see the results, here is a lot made using this technique:
http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=329909

I believe that this is easier than the CFE method. It works with the base game and is compatible with all EPs. Here's what I did:

:new: 0) If you do not have Apartment Life or Mansions and Gardens, you will probably need this workaround:
http://www.modthesims.info/showthread.php?p=2641232#post2641232

1) Create a walled dummy first (ground) level. This level will be unusable in the game. Add muse's invisible tiles for the floor of this level. Note that these tiles appear light blue (I think that you can see the sky through them). If you want to keep this level, you may want to create it using the foundation tool, rather than the standard wall tool, since this will be significantly less expensive.

2) Create a walled second level which will be pushed underground. This level will be the basement, and needs a real floor. The walls of this level will become the basement and foundation walls.

3) Optional: Once all levels have been created with the appropriate floors and walls, remove the walls from the ground level, so that the other level(s) are floating in the air. This step is optional. If you like to play with walls down, you may want to keep the walls on the ground level, to block out the sky when you are playing the basement. However, this will increase the cost of your home; walls are expensive. You can defray most of this additional cost by creating the level in step 1 using the foundation tool, or by performing step 4.

4) Optional: If you want to reduce the cost of your house by using standard foundation walls for your new basement (level 1), or for the dummy level which you kept by skipping step 3 (level 0), run ConvertiWall to change all normal walls on the appropriate levels to foundation walls:
http://www.modthesims2.com/download.php?t=327132

Note: ConvertiWall only changes the Wall ID, it doesn't change the wall covering. If you want the default brick foundation wall covering, just use the standard technique for removing wall coverings: <ctrl><shift><click> with an arbitrary wall covering.

5) Use the GridAdjuster to set a range for levels 1 and above which includes your walls and the inside of the house. Then choose: Flat Elevation = -12 (minus 12) clicks (standard foundation height of 4 less the standard wall height) and Add per level = 16 clicks (standard wall height).

If you'd like a higher basement, adjust the Elevation accordingly.

Note that the Elevation that you specify must be negative, to push the basement underground. However, the "per level" value should be positive, to ensure that each floor is higher than the last.

Be sure to use a range which includes only the walls and inside of the house. If you include the yard, you might have problems placing things in the yard outside the house.

6) Sometimes, you will find yourself unable to access objects inside of the basement. If so, then use the TS2GridAdjuster to change the ground level inside of your basement (level 0). You will need to choose whether to try 6.A (lower ground level) or 6.B (raise ground level). 6.A will always resolve the problem, but objects near the walls may still be difficult to access; 6.B may not always work, but is better when it does work. For the base game, you will need to perform 6.A. It is unknown at this time which EP is required for 6.B to function correctly.

6.A) Lower the level of the ground inside of the basement (level 0) to ensure that the invisible tiles are below the basement floor. Be sure to set your range to include only the inside of the basement, not the basement walls.

* OR *

6.B) Raise the level of the ground inside of the basement (level 0) to ensure that the invisible tiles are 10 clicks above the basement floor. For example, if you chose a basement elevation of -8, then raise the ground level to 2; a basement elevation of -6 requires a ground level of 4. Be sure to set your range to include only the inside of the basement, not the basement walls.

jonha
27th Apr 2009, 1:02 PM
I just made a "real" basement using the TS2GridAdjuster:
http://www.modthesims2.com/download.php?t=327439

Nice idea, but it doesn't worked very well for me, because after tranforming it was nearly impossible to edit the ground level (adding plants, editing ground texture) and it was difficult to edit the underground level, too.

You should probably finish your house first and then push it underground. Too complicated for me.

Mootilda
27th Apr 2009, 6:08 PM
Just change the range to include only the walls and inside of the house. If you honestly find the original tutorial easier, that's fine. But, I'm sure that there are a lot of people who will find it easier to use the GridAdjuster, rather than the tedious process in the original tutorial. It's always nice to have options.

Actually, I realized that I could make my tutorial even simpler, so I'm hoping to update soon.

I'm reasonably sure that the two techniques result in the same internal grid elevations within the lot package. If someone knows of a lot which uses the first technique and is available for download (preferably with a minimum of CC), I could check this.

jonha
27th Apr 2009, 7:58 PM
Just change the range to include only the walls and inside of the house.

I will try that.

If you honestly find the original tutorial easier, that's fine.

Of course not, and your tool is really great. But I think I will stick to classical foundation basements with slope. Your method and the original method have the additional problem, that you see the sky around the basement when walls are down.

Mootilda
27th Apr 2009, 8:46 PM
Ah, I understand. Yes, the standard basements are a lot easier, but many of us just hate that additional slope. I'm hoping that we'll be seeing some lots with real basements available to be downloaded soon.

If you weren't using a test lot for the test of my "easier" method, let me know and I'll tell you how to fix your lot.

plasticbox
27th Apr 2009, 10:01 PM
Your method and the original method have the additional problem, that you see the sky around the basement when walls are down.I believe one could work around that issue by swapping those walls for foundation-type walls -- they stay up in walls-down mode, so people wouldn't need to switch between walls-up and walls-down for viewing the basement vs. other floors.

Mootilda
28th Apr 2009, 12:44 AM
So, you're suggesting that people use ConvertiWall to stack two foundations for the first 2 levels? Or perhaps just convert the entire 2nd level to foundation walls once it's sunken into the ground? Interesting thought... might work. I'll try this when I get a chance.

[Update:]
I tried changing the bottom two levels to brick foundations, but it didn't change whether the wall drops down to show the sky.

That may be because ConvertiWall only changes the Wall ID, but I believe that there is more information about walls stored inside of the lot package that we don't really understand yet.

However, I found a different solution. Just leave the walls on the bottom level and do everything else the same. Now, when the "basement" walls drop down, you will still see the walls for the dummy level, rather than seeing through to the sky. You can still use ConvertiWall to change the normal walls on the bottom two levels to brick foundation walls, both for the look and for the "basement" pricing.

jonha
28th Apr 2009, 12:16 PM
AFAIK even foundations gets pulled down in wall-down mode. So I think, this is the wrong method.

Another method could be, to make the sky completely black below the horizon.

Mootilda
28th Apr 2009, 5:11 PM
The solution is in my most recent post. Just use my technique, but skip step 3 (removing the walls on the bottom level). Now, when you go into the basement with walls down, the walls on the first level will block out the sky.

I've updated my technique with this info.

jonha
29th Apr 2009, 12:30 AM
The solution is in my most recent post. Just use my technique, but skip step 3 (removing the walls on the bottom level). Now, when you go into the basement with walls down, the walls on the first level will block out the sky.

I've updated my technique with this info.

But when walls are up, I think there will be 2 walls at the same place. Doesn't this cause enourmous flickering? I'm too lazy to test now, but I will give it a try.

Mootilda
29th Apr 2009, 1:12 AM
You would think so, but I didn't find any flickering when I did it. Perhaps I just didn't do enough testing when I tried it. If I don't hear back from you, I'll test this more thoroughly myself.

One thing to keep in mind is that the first set of walls goes from 0 to -12 clicks, and the second set of walls goes from -12 to 4 clicks. This means that the only flickering would occur underground, and then only if both sets of walls are being displayed.

[Update:] Did further testing with all EPs and SPs. No flickering detected. Both level 1 and 2 were changed to foundation walls using ConvertiWall. Default normal wall covering on level 1, default brick and various other wall coverings tried on level 2.

Might want to run the same test with base game, just to hit both ends of TS2.

jonha
30th Apr 2009, 10:50 AM
[Update:] Did further testing with all EPs and SPs. No flickering detected.

Yes, I tested it myself, and you're right. Because the wall is going downwards, you see actually the "outer" wall face and not the inner, so that there is no conflict with the default inner wall face of the level2 wall.


Both level 1 and 2 were changed to foundation walls using ConvertiWall.

Converting level 1 to foundation makes sense to me, as it will not be put partially down then anymore, which looks ugly, but why level2? After that, you wont be able to put wall hangings, toilets etc. at the wall without cheats.


Default normal wall covering on level 1, default brick and various other wall coverings tried on level 2.

Because you can't change the wall texture on the reversed level1 wall after pulling it down, right? ;)

aelflaed
30th Apr 2009, 12:21 PM
I tried Mootilda's method last night, with somewhat mixed results. Mostly I just need to practice and get more familiar with how to achieve what I want with the technique. It was pretty easy though, much less hassle than the original method looked like being. I was thankful to find Mootilda's post when I came back to check the tutorial.

One thing - after altering the wall type to foundation, it still looks like normal wall, not brick. (I can place doors and windows without cheats, too, but I may have altered my files to allow this.)

However, I cannot delete any of the existing walls, and they don't go down at all in cutaway view.

Is that because they are foundations? I'm going to change the second level back to normal and try again, but I thought I'd ask / record the phenomenon.

EDIT - changing the level 2 walls back to normal ones makes them work properly again. Can be deleted , drop with cutaway view. Excellent. Off to experiment some more...

Mootilda
30th Apr 2009, 4:19 PM
Converting level 1 to foundation makes sense to me, as it will not be put partially down then anymore, which looks ugly, but why level2? After that, you wont be able to put wall hangings, toilets etc. at the wall without cheats.Yes, you're right. Most people will want normal walls for the basement, unless they just want to use the basement for storage, or unless they've modded their walls.txt file. I'll fix the tutorial above.

Because you can't change the wall texture on the reversed level1 wall after pulling it down, right? ;)Correct. That's why it's a good idea to run ConvertiWall and set the wall covering for level 0 before you run the GridAdjuster.

One thing - after altering the wall type to foundation, it still looks like normal wall, not brick. (I can place doors and windows without cheats, too, but I may have altered my files to allow this.)ConvertiWall only changes the WallID, it doesn't change the wall covering. Try removing the wall covering by selecting an arbitrary wall covering and holding <ctrl> and <shift> while clicking on the wall (ie, just remove it using the standard technique). The default wall covering should be underneath.

However, I cannot delete any of the existing walls, and they don't go down at all in cutaway view.To remove a foundation in game, you must be viewing the grid at the top of the foundation. Then, use the <ctrl> key with any foundation tool.

Alternatively, as you've seen, you can change foundation walls to normal walls using ConvertiWall, to make them easier to delete.

And, I suppose that people could also mod their walls.txt file to make foundation walls deletable using the default wall tool.

aelflaed
3rd May 2009, 6:13 AM
Thanks to both SimFreakForever and Mootilda, for showing up how to perform this neat trick!

Mootilda
3rd May 2009, 3:02 PM
And thanks to you and jonha for the insightful questions, which helped to smooth out some of the rough areas in this technique. And, of course, to V1ND1CARE, who came up with the original method.

I'm really hoping that this means that we'll be seeing some new lots with real basements uploaded soon.

Right now, I'm working on a tool which will allow people to add a new level, such as a foundation or basement, to an existing house. Combined with this tutorial, we should be able to retrofit existing houses with real basements. What fun!

In a way, I'm almost sorry that TS3 is shipping so soon, since it seems that there are so many interesting things still to be done with TS2.

jonha
4th May 2009, 12:09 AM
I have just finished my first test lot with your basement method, to see, if it really works well and if it makes sense to start a more complicated lot.

I had no problems, and I think, I will publish my first basement-lot soon.

A really nice improvement to you tool would be, to automatically lower every (second level) floor tile (which is not empty) tile so that people don't have to measure their lots and don't have to restart your tool several times if the floor plan isn't rectangle.

aelflaed
4th May 2009, 2:34 AM
For me, I just picked a starting point - I was building a cave which had -no- straight edges, so there really wasn't an easy place to choose. I admit I was making it difficult by doing so.

Is there any reason we can't build a rectangular basement, with an irregular-shaped upper floor over it?

Mootilda
4th May 2009, 7:41 AM
I can't think of any reason why you can't have a rectangular basement and an irregularly shaped house. Of course, you'll have to plan your porch to take the basement shape into consideration.

aelflaed
5th May 2009, 2:48 AM
The only reason might be if the basement was smaller than the house - with an old-fashioned foundation basement, you can't do that. Well, you can hollow out less than the full amount of foundation, but you can't have part of the ground floor on foundation and part not. Not without a lot of CFE carry-on.

Must give it a try.

Mootilda
5th May 2009, 4:10 AM
The main problem that I can see is that a sim cannot travel from one level to another without stairs. Even if two levels are at exactly the same elevation, a sim will not be able to cross the level boundary. I don't know whether this applies to your situation, but it's something to keep in mind.

Sonikan
8th May 2009, 7:24 PM
sorry if I am in the wrong place, I know it'll be nice to have a house with basement, this tutorial is great, but what I want to know is how to transform a first store house into a second store? (construct a second floor) every time I try, it says "need something to support" I don't know the meaning of that. I never made a house till now.Please, any help I do appreciate,Thanks a lot in advance

aelflaed
9th May 2009, 4:49 AM
Not quite the right place, but it's easily answered - you need to see the white grid of sqaures that indicate you can build on that level. You may need to make an enclosed room, lay floor tiles, or use columns to get the second-storey grid.

Mootilda
9th May 2009, 4:59 AM
The only reason might be if the basement was smaller than the house - with an old-fashioned foundation basement, you can't do that. Well, you can hollow out less than the full amount of foundation, but you can't have part of the ground floor on foundation and part not. Not without a lot of CFE carry-on. Must give it a try.You still aren't going to be able to have part of the main floor (level 3) on foundation and part on the ground. Is that what you were hoping to accomplish?

I've created a house with bay windows over a basement which does not include the bay area. As you can see from the attached picture, the bay windows stick out from the house at the same level as the rest of the main floor.

Is this what you're hoping to accomplish? If not, can you sketch something to show me what you want?

aelflaed
9th May 2009, 7:56 AM
The bay I am currently using is filled in to ground level. Not a real bay window, just a bay shape on that part of the house.

What I meant was (no time for a pic today, see if this will do) to have the entry level of the house at ground level, as if it was built there, and entered normall without stairs. And basement dug out under that, without raising the house on foundation. I think I should be able to bury the basement completely with this new technique, but I'm not sure if sims will be able to enter the house without steps.

I don't bother with split-level building very much - it can be more effort to achieve than the effect is worth. It has bugged me, though, that it isn't possible to have a basement on a ground-level building.

Mootilda
9th May 2009, 6:28 PM
Yes, after I posted this, I saw your uploaded house on the TS2GridAdjuster thread, so I was able to see what you are trying to accomplish. I continue to believe that it should work, although there may be problems with true basements in the base game. I honestly believe that you're on the right track, and that leaving some (or all) of the walls on the dummy level will effectively hide the non-basement area under the bay window.

I still want to try to determine the minimum EP requirements for this technique. As well, I'd like to see whether the base game issue can be resolved by having different ranges for level 1 and level 2, to reduce the likelihood of conflicts between the two levels. I'd also like to test whether the problem is being caused by the pond water record.

[Update] I haven't been able to get the GridAdjuster technique to work with anything up to and including OFB, or with Seasons or Bon Voyage. However, the technique definitely works with Mansion & Garden. I still need to test with FreeTime and Apartment Life. Can anyone verify whether the original tutorial works with the base game or any of the early EPs? It says OFB or later...

Alternative explanations why this isn't working for your bay window test (all disproved since I first posted):
- Elevation not -12 (unlikely).
- Your rotated version of Andi's shrunken lot.
- I've been using a true foundation for the dummy level in my tests.
[end update]

I believe that you can't have a true basement under a ground level entry. Why? Because anything with a true basement under it must be at least level 3 (level 0 is the ground level, level 1 is the dummy level, level 2 is the basement level). There is no way (that I know of) for a sim to travel from level 3 to level 0 without stairs (or an elevator). The minimum stair is 4 clicks. So, until someone comes up with a method for getting sims from level 0 to level 3 without any change in elevation, I don't believe that such a lot would be playable (although it could easily be created).

I have tried to think of some way to mod the lot package to create a zero-height "ramp" between two levels. But, I'm convinced that it can't be done.

I believe that there is only one way for something like this to work: for someone to find a way to create a stair or elevator which has a height of 0. Since I've never done object modding before, I'm probably not the person to do this. Perhaps it would be worth posting in the object creation forum to see whether anyone knows whether this is actually possible.

Mootilda
9th May 2009, 7:23 PM
OK, I spoke too soon. I've come up with a possible solution:

Try to convince everyone that level 3 is actually level 0. How?

- Ensure that level 3 is at an elevation of 0 for the entire lot. Or, perhaps an elevation just above 0, so that there will be no z-fighting.
- Put down floor tiles which look like grass on level 3 for the entire outside of the house, so that people can move around on that level.
- Move all your plants and flowers upstairs (using moveobjects?). You will also need a hack to allow plants on floor tiles.
- Move the road up to level 3; you'll have to unlock the road and sidewalk tiles in the catalog.
- Move the vehicle and pedestrian portals up to level 3; you'll have to use the portal revealer to move them.
- Move any driveways up. (Is this possible? Driveways always seem very difficult to place.)

Are you interested in trying this?

Oh, by the way, creating a house with a ground-elevation entry above a real basement is pretty easy. Just use my technique with an elevation of -16.

aelflaed
10th May 2009, 1:23 PM
Yes, I could see that creating the lot itself was straightforward, but I didn't believe sims would be able to get into the house. As you said.

I can try your method for making level 3 look like level 0. Not sure about the driveway - would have to try it. I don't have trouble with driveways in the normal way, but I often use moveobjects and place only the extension.

The plants and flowers might be a problem as they would be placed on floor rather than ground, but I think there's a hack somewhere around to make that work better.

I've seen info also on unlocking those road and footpath tiles. Have to look for it. (EDIT - do you mean unlocking by showing them in the catalogue, or just unlocking all lot tiles with LotAdjuster?)

When you say "just above 0", what value are you thinking of? Remember I'm a bit numerically challenged.

Edit - you can have usable two-click stairs, but I've only managed it in combination with split-level houses and the stage tool.

More Edit - should windows placed in the basement level be usable? You can do that with traditional basements as long as they are six clicks or more above street level. One disadvantage of this new system would be if they cannot be naturally lit. I haven't been able to check this yet with the basegame houses, as I can't place things on the lower levels.

I've made a new basegame 3x2 lot, to try the level 3 entry. Nothing worth reporting thus far (the basement is not usable and sims can't get in) - but I have to try higher EPs next, as well as your other suggestions for fudging what level the sims think they are on.

Mootilda
10th May 2009, 5:33 PM
I've seen info also on unlocking those road and footpath tiles. Have to look for it. (EDIT - do you mean unlocking by showing them in the catalogue, or just unlocking all lot tiles with LotAdjuster?)I meant making the sidewalk and road tiles appear in the catalog. There's no other way that I know of to get a road on an upper level (short of modding 3D Array instance 0).

When you say "just above 0", what value are you thinking of? Remember I'm a bit numerically challenged.If I were going to try this, I'd first remove everything from level 0 (including the road and sidewalk), then try an elevation of 0. If there's no z-fighting, then I'd stick with 0.

Assuming that there is z-fighting with an elevation of 0: If you're using clicks, then 1 click is "just above 0". If you're using floating point numbers, then I'd try .0001. If you still get z-fighting, I'd try .001, then .01, then .1. I imagine that one of these values would fix the problem, but would still be a lower elevation than 1 click.

Of course, you're aware that such lots are basically built over-the-road, and may not be able to be shared using traditional methods. (I've never tried this, so I can't say for sure without testing. During my work with the LevelAdder, a road on level 1 at an elevation of 16 clicks did not prevent moving the lot; being able to move a lot in the neighborhood view is a prerequisite to being able to share the lot as a Sims2Pack.)

Edit - you can have usable two-click stairs, but I've only managed it in combination with split-level houses and the stage tool.That's good to know. I should fool around with that, since I prefer lower foundations. I, too, would love to have a ground level entry with a basement underneath.

More Edit - should windows placed in the basement level be usable? You can do that with traditional basements as long as they are six clicks or more above street level. One disadvantage of this new system would be if they cannot be naturally lit. I haven't been able to check this yet with the basegame houses, as I can't place things on the lower levels. I've been able to place windows in these basements, but haven't noticed whether the sun comes in or not. I'll have to check.

I've made a new basegame 3x2 lot, to try the level 3 entry. Nothing worth reporting thus far (the basement is not usable and sims can't get in) - but I have to try higher EPs next, as well as your other suggestions for fudging what level the sims think they are on.Again, I have no idea whether this will work or not. I still think that the best option is for someone to create a 0-click "stair". Then again, I'm not an object creator and have no idea how difficult that would be. The biggest advantage would be that these lots would be able to be shared as Sims2Packs, with a small amount of CC (0-click stair, plus invisible tile).

At this time, I'm not sure that the TS2GridAdjuster method works for anything except Mansions and Gardens; FT failed, I still need to test AL. Initially, I thought that perhaps the pond water level on the lot was causing problems with earlier EPs, but further testing shows that pushing the water level down doesn't fix the problem.

Clearly, the "difficult" method is changing more than just the array of grid elevations. I'm considering studying V1ND1CARE's lot with the ground level over the living area, to see whether I can determine what else needs to be changed.

jonha
10th May 2009, 8:54 PM
I've been able to place windows in these basements, but haven't noticed whether the sun comes in or not. I'll have to check.


The sun comes through windows with the basement level not deeper than 10 clicks.

aelflaed
11th May 2009, 4:46 AM
If/when I get a usable lot with 'ground' at level 3, we can see how shareable it will be. I'm going to have to do it with M&G by the look of it, which is a shame really. It would be good if Mootilda can figure out how to allow lesser EP requirements.

If you manage to place a one-step staircase, sims apparently cannot use it - Niol mentioned that somewhere. Two steps definitely works, though.

Jonha, that's certainly the case with traditional basements. Good that it still applies with the new version.

Sonikan
11th May 2009, 9:45 AM
Thanks aelflaed for answering my question once again sorry to have post in the wrong place, I do apologize

aelflaed
12th May 2009, 12:14 PM
My video card has died, so I'm usng the factory one for now - which means I probably can't run Sims2 until a new card is bought. So if I'm quiet for a few days, it's not because I've lost interest!

I posted about the zero-height stair on Simbology in case someone bites.

Mootilda
12th May 2009, 11:29 PM
If you manage to get level 3 working as the pseudo-ground level, I might be able to code up something to make this easier for people to do. This might fit in particularly well with my new program to add a level to a lot.

I'm trying to finish work on that program before I start to look into why basements require AL. It's getting pretty close; I just managed to add a real basement to a previously-ground-level house.

Oh, by the way, I updated the description of my technique with your suggested improvements. Let me know whether it still needs work.

aelflaed
13th May 2009, 6:01 AM
I see the minus has been added, that should be more obvious for people. Thanks. No bites on the 0-height stair - Khakidoo made something that was suggested, but it is really only covering up a gentle incline, so sims are still on the same level. Different problem.

I can do pretty much everything on this old videocard, EXCEPT run sims2. Even text documents look pretty weird though. Hopefully hubby will bring home a new card this evening.

jonha
13th May 2009, 6:03 PM
Mootilda,

I have another improvement to you method. Instead of building the first level with walls and convert them using convertiwall to foundation walls you can easily build a plain foundation without any problems.

Mootilda
13th May 2009, 7:12 PM
Yes, good idea. I've added this to the post with the simplified technique.

Kestin
13th May 2009, 9:07 PM
I found a quicker, easier way to do step 16. Switching to the one-tile terrain tool helps make it precise, but you can avoid the need for manual precision by simply using the largest terrain tool until it says "Can't raise terrain further". Once you've done that, everything will be at the same level, regardless of how different it gets in the process. :)

Mootilda
16th May 2009, 4:58 AM
From the download thread for my no-slope basement test lot:
http://www.modthesims2.com/download.php?t=329909

We found a problem with the TS2GridAdjuster method (which may also exist with the original method) for basements with an elevation higher than -10 (ie, -8 or -6). It is sometimes difficult or impossible to grab objects once they've been placed.

It would appear that the problem occurs when the space between an invisible tile and the object underneath it is less than 10 clicks.

I have several potential solutions which I'm working on, but I just wanted to give people a "heads up" about this issue.

For anyone who wants to fool around with this, the first solution is to move the ground level in the center of the basement up, so that the invisible tiles are 10 clicks above the floor inside the basement, except at the very edge of the wall. This solution seems to be working fairly well for me so far, but requires more testing.

The second solution is to move the ground level in the center of the basement down, so that the floor inside the basement is at or above the elevation of the invisible tiles, except at the very edge of the wall. This solution doesn't seem to be working quite as well, since I'm finding it difficult (but not impossible) to move things in the square with contains the (invisible) slope (just inside the wall). Otherwise, this solution also seems to be working.

The second solution may prove to be a solution to creating no-slope basements for the base game and early EPs.

If you do any testing on either of these solutions, please be sure to post your results for us all.

[Update:]

I have updated my method with this information:
http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?p=2172451#post2172451

I also updated my test lots, if you'd like to help test the first solution:
http://www.modthesims2.com/download.php?t=329909

Next, I'm going to see whether the second solution resolves the problems with base-game no-slope basements.

Mootilda
16th May 2009, 7:13 AM
I have confirmed that my no-slope basement method works for the base game, with one small change and one caveat:

After creating the no-slope basement, you need to run the TS2GridAdjuster again, to move the ground (level 0) inside the basement underneath the basement floor. Be sure to specify a range which does not include the basement walls.

Caveat: some low items, such as the VroomMaster 4000 remote controlled car, may be difficult to pick up if they are on the tile closest to the wall. Suggestions for picking up difficult items:
- zoom in or out or rotate the camera; a different angle can help
- move your view so that the edge of the terrain overlaps the item (see picture)

I will be updating my method with this information.

VICIOUS713
15th Jun 2009, 6:26 AM
What an insanely time consuming process o.o

aelflaed
16th Jun 2009, 2:17 AM
Mootilda's way is less time-consuming.

You don't have to do either one, of course - depends how badly you want this kind of basement. :)

Auronette
22nd Jun 2009, 7:36 AM
I've been trying out both methoods and I'm having the same problem with both. I'm wanting to stay with the adjuster as it seems much quicker even with the constant restarts. Once I get the hang of it tho, the amount of restarts should be a non issue.

Anyway, my problem is much like the one Aelflaed discussed in the download thread for the adjuster. I put the basement into the ground at -12 clicks, but find that I am totally unable to place any furniture, doors or anything into the area. Anything I try to place instead ends up on the main level. I was looking at step 6 which discusses moving Level 0 either above or below the floor level of the basement, but have had no luck in getting it to work.

Here's a breakout of what I did.

After building the walls for two levels, adding the transparent tiles on the ground and the flooring for the basement on the second level, I closed the game and opened up the adjuster. I selected Level 1-3 and for the front 12-17, left 3-17, which was the range I needed to get the walls into the equation. I selected flat -12 and left the 16 default for the per level. I hit the button and restarted the game to check to make sure the walls were in the proper position. They appeared to be fine, but I could not place anything into the basement room.

So thinking that the problem might be step 6, I quit the game without saving and went back to the adjuster and input Level 0-0, Front 13-16, left 4-16. I selected this range because they did not include the walls. I then set the Flat to -16 to place level 0 below the basement floor. I hit the button, quit the adjuster and went back into the game. I still had the same problem.

I've tried a variety of different ranges, as well as trying the alternate step 6, but without luck. Each time I did this I did not use "variations." Maybe I should have?

Any suggestions at all would be most gratefully appreciated. And if you need more information, please let me know.

Thanks

Mootilda
22nd Jun 2009, 4:52 PM
Your technique sounds correct. I believe that the water level on the lot is causing the problem with earlier EPs. Unfortunately, the GridAdjuster doesn't change the water level (yet).

Try this: before placing the invisible tiles or using the GridAdjuster, move the ground level inside the basement down, so that it is below where the basement floor will be. What you want is something similar to what you would do to create a normal sloped basement.

Then, add the invisible tiles on the (lowered) ground and use the GridAdjuster to lower levels 1 and above. If necessary, you can then move the ground level up using the GridAdjuster.

Explanation: When you lower the ground in-game, the water level moves with the ground level; if you subsequently raise the ground using the GridAdjuster, the water level is not raised.

In the interim, I'll try to get the code to change the water level into the GridAdjuster. Sorry that it's taken so long.

Auronette
23rd Jun 2009, 6:52 AM
The suggested methood worked like a charm.

I'm seeing so much in the way of possibilities with this Mod and I thank you for it. No worries on any delays. I'm happy to have the new toy and will be putting it to good use within my downtown lots especially.

Happy Simming!

Mootilda
23rd Jun 2009, 7:14 PM
Great. I'm glad that workaround helped. It also helps to confirm my suspicion about the water level, which puts a higher priority on completing the GridAdjuster water level changes.

In the interim, I added this info to my tutorial post.

snowmoon2001
18th Jul 2009, 7:20 PM
One more thing to note about the water level is that the destination menu will not work properly in the basement. Even with the water level properly lowered, sims cannot "go here", "run here", etc. Instead, they only have the option to "fish using...". :rofl:

This isn't much of a problem since they can fully interact with any object placed in the basement, but it does present a bit of an issue when transporting babies, toddlers, kittens or puppies. Since these sims can't navigate stairs, they have to be picked up, the carrying sim has to "go here" and then "put down". In those cases, I've used moveobjects, but for anyone sharing their lots widely, this should probably be acknowledged.

I also noticed that although you can eliminate fish in the basement, you can still hear them jumping. :anime:

niol
21st Jul 2009, 7:58 AM
All,

May choose whichever way one feels comfortable with. :)



First, thanks a big bunch for the hard work on making this tutorial. :) :up:

The OFB prerequisite seems to be for the cheat "deleteallwalls", but alternatively one can just simply delete all the walls after floor-tiling the invloved grid layer regions. Wall is unnecessary nor arbitrarily effective to lock the grid points (values) while floor tiles can lock them well enough.

To control or delete floor tiles can be easily done by <<Shift>><<click>> or <<Ctrl>><<Shift>><<click>>. One can even tile a plain ground or floor grid to alter the floor tile texture or simply delete them all altogether. May just use this common technique used in lot building.

Thus, this tutorial can work in all game version.



V1ND1CARE had explained her trick in a very lucid abstract way.

Points to take:

1. what really changed is that the lower grid layer or the lower wall segment gets raised or incremented by the undo-redo scripting without the 4-click/4-step limit enforced only by the build tools. We should appreciate such imperfect design sometimes. :D .

2. Her tutorial is for various usages other than just for one purpose to build only a particular build feature.




For those who are interested in Aeflaed's basement attempt, may read posts 32 to 39, and post 43 (section: lot fixing)
http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?p=2182659#post2182659





Converting level 1 to foundation makes sense to me, as it will not be put partially down then anymore, which looks ugly, but why level2? After that, you wont be able to put wall hangings, toilets etc. at the wall without cheats.


1. The "moveobjects on" cheat is one way.
2. Modding the appropriate wall.txt in the base game copy to allow foundation wall to hold object is yet an another.
3. To place objects on normal standard wall before conversion by Mootilda's ConvertiWall is a third one.
4. Maybe more, anybody? :anime:

As an alternative to Mootilda's ConvertiWall, one can also commentise the catelog flag and add in thumbnail references for foundation wall in the base game wall.txt to unleash such wall in the wall tool to build with.

Modding InfoCenter - Partitions: walls, fences, fence arches
http://www.modthesims.info/showthread.php?t=106473


As for the sky revelation underground due to wall-down, alternatively, one may use a wall overlay custom objects to cover up. For examples:

1. pixelhate's wall overlay
http://www.modthesims.info/d/242442
2. Jonesi's swim-pool wall overlay
http://www.modthesims.info/d/216340


However, I cannot delete any of the existing walls, and they don't go down at all in cutaway view.

Is that because they are foundations? I'm going to change the second level back to normal and try again, but I thought I'd ask / record the phenomenon.


To remove a foundation in game, you must be viewing the grid at the top of the foundation. Then, use the <ctrl> key with any foundation tool.Alternatively, as you've seen, you can change foundation walls to normal walls using ConvertiWall, to make them easier to delete.
And, I suppose that people could also mod their walls.txt file to make foundation walls deletable using the default wall tool.

It takes levelroom tools like foundation tools (esp. useful with the screen deck and column deck ones while the default foundation one is limitted to the ground level ) to delete foundation walls as defined in the base game wall.txt file. So, if one wants to use partition tools like wall tools or fence tools to delete foundation walls, one may mod that. Note, partition tools like wall tools and fence tools cannot delete all components of a foundation block like invisible occupancy and etc, and so incomplete deletion of a foundation block can result.



Because you can't change the wall texture on the reversed level1 wall after pulling it down, right?
You may, it at least can take a further hassle to mod the related files in a lot package file afterwards.





The only reason might be if the basement was smaller than the house - with an old-fashioned foundation basement, you can't do that. Well, you can hollow out less than the full amount of foundation, but you can't have part of the ground floor on foundation and part not. Not without a lot of CFE carry-on.


The main problem that I can see is that a sim cannot travel from one level to another without stairs. Even if two levels are at exactly the same elevation, a sim will not be able to cross the level boundary. I don't know whether this applies to your situation, but it's something to keep in mind


If they belong to 2 different levels/pages/storeys/stories, 3 known ways out:
1. ensure a difference of 2 clicks/steps between the two for modular/connecting stairs. The upper step is to connect the upper one and the lower step is to connect to the lower one.
2. modded custom staircase as a plain 2 grid-based portals, one end connects to the upper one while the another end to the lower one. Such object may have a recolour to indicate which end is upper and/or lower and a invisible recolour to hide itself.
3. sunken stealth stair, in which the modular stair formed under the ground and in this case under the basement, as shown in one of frillen's magic build tutorials. The only draw-back is a reasonably fast scene that the sims jumped down into the ground upon entry and jumped back up at the another exit.
4. maybe more, anywho? :anime:
http://thesims2.ea.com/exchange/story_detail.php?asset_id=75583&asset_type=story&user_id=126444
{Links: frillen tutorial & modular stair behaviour]

If they belong to the same but yet another level/page/storey/story. Sims can access inclined/ramped floor tiles. This may break the weather proof for sims but graphical weather proof should remain as long as there is still a full closed room above the region for such ramp.

As long as it is well planned, no general problem I see so far. :)

The real challenge I see is what if the basement has an area out of or larger than the building(s). Can invisible floor tiles on upper grid layers help vuisualise the basement accordingly without causing graphical glitch?



It has bugged me, though, that it isn't possible to have a basement on a ground-level building.


Not really so, one may get around it:

1. One may just raise the grid points around the stair to form stage while the immediate upper level is untiled for the region.

2. One may make the level-transition by modular stairs for sims inside a building, so the external appearance of the building will still be on the ground as one likes it.
This is to get an extra level even upper than the "actual level for the basement" and that "immediate upper level"/"ceiling-level" of the basement as a transitional stage. Such stage can be just small and narrow like 1 grid alone for the stair and wide up to about 2 grids from any entry.

Surely, this is somewhat more tricky.

3. as suggested in 2. and 3. of the response to the previous quotes,

4. maybe more, anyone? :anime:





During my work with the LevelAdder, a road on level 1 at an elevation of 16 clicks did not prevent moving the lot; being able to move a lot in the neighborhood view is a prerequisite to being able to share the lot as a Sims2Pack.)


So, can it still movable without any further lot-modding after an in-lot save?
Just curious... This sounds good.




Wish - that the program could identify enclosed areas and determine it's own depth/width for the level from that.


Too large the grey areas other than black or white to consider , like just simply non-room architectures (balcony, structural decorations, etc). Nobody but the lot-builder should know any better.



TS2GridAdjuster is a general-purpose tool. Having the tool try to guess what you are trying to accomplish and setting its own depth and width would make it less general purpose.


ditto, that at most can only be an attempt option with too many limitations while the effort may not worth it.

But from aelfaed, I learnt that probably a graphically scaled and labelled in-lot tutorial picture may help visualise the concept to use TS2GridAdjuster. For the underground, invisible floor tiles can help visualise that.

On a second thought, one can just simply set the input range as the same as that of a given lot size.
Maybe, the range inputs have the lot size specs. range by default. This can even save a fuss to check and uncheck an option.



One possibility for the UI would be to have a "snap range to walls" button (suggestions for better names appreciated), available when the current range has only 1 level. Clicking on the button would override the depth and width, setting them to the minimal range which includes all walls on that level.


:anime: ditto.



I believe that the water level on the lot is causing the problem with earlier EPs. Unfortunately, the GridAdjuster doesn't change the water level (yet).


I guess a simple replacement of value in the terrain water/pond water array with a regular free HEX editor should suffice to prove, right?
The problem I see is the same as pool-floor recolouring in pre-EP5 swimpool, while the post-EP5 one seems to have the ground tile removed.



One more thing to note about the water level is that the destination menu will not work properly in the basement. Even with the water level properly lowered, sims cannot "go here", "run here", etc. Instead, they only have the option to "fish using...".

This isn't much of a problem since they can fully interact with any object placed in the basement, but it does present a bit of an issue when transporting babies, toddlers, kittens or puppies. Since these sims can't navigate stairs, they have to be picked up, the carrying sim has to "go here" and then "put down". In those cases, I've used moveobjects, but for anyone sharing their lots widely, this should probably be acknowledged.

I also noticed that although you can eliminate fish in the basement, you can still hear them jumping.


Probably, the default input range for the terrain/pond water is the same as the lot size can ease fast needs. :)

Mootilda
21st Jul 2009, 6:53 PM
One more thing to note about the water level is that the destination menu will not work properly in the basement. Even with the water level properly lowered, sims cannot "go here", "run here", etc. Instead, they only have the option to "fish using...". :rofl:

This isn't much of a problem since they can fully interact with any object placed in the basement, but it does present a bit of an issue when transporting babies, toddlers, kittens or puppies. Since these sims can't navigate stairs, they have to be picked up, the carrying sim has to "go here" and then "put down". In those cases, I've used moveobjects, but for anyone sharing their lots widely, this should probably be acknowledged.

I also noticed that although you can eliminate fish in the basement, you can still hear them jumping. :anime:Would you please attach your lot here, so that I could take a look at it and try to figure out what's happening? Thanks.

snowmoon2001
21st Jul 2009, 8:28 PM
Would you please attach your lot here, so that I could take a look at it and try to figure out what's happening? Thanks.

Unfortunately, I'm travelling for the next few days so I'm unable to give this the proper attention, but I'm uploading what I believe is the lot in question (http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=ad731fabb486096108f8df73f2072ed6e04e75f6e8ebb871). I have several saved versions, so I'm sure I'll be able to find the right one if this doesn't serve. I'm sorry it's so packed full of extraneous garbage; I can easily get you a trimmed down version if you're willing to wait a few days instead.

Of note, I didn't make any structural changes to the basement after this save, but the lot I'm playing is shrunken to within one tile of the walls at the right and the back.

Another factor may be that I didn't lower the water level enough. It was purely an accident of laziness when I lowered the terrain under the basement before beginning to build. I only lowered it 2 storeys so the water level must be at -32 clicks, but in order to get access to the corners of the basement, I had to lower the ground tiles to -40 clicks. I didn't anticipate that it would cause any problems since the basement floor is only -10 clicks deep, but perhaps that's the issue after all.

Mootilda
22nd Jul 2009, 1:22 AM
OK, I've got the lot. Thank you.

The shrinking of the lot shouldn't affect this issue, since the LotAdjuster only changes the grid elevations and water level at the very edge of the lot. However, if I can't reproduce your problem, I'll try shrinking it, just in case.

Have a nice trip.

snowmoon2001
25th Jul 2009, 2:12 AM
Thank you, I'm no longer in transit so I can now ferret out my other saves, if necessary. :) Does that lot show the effect I described?

As I said, for me it's a small price to pay for sunny basements and prettier lot impostors, but I thought it should be mentioned.

Mootilda
25th Jul 2009, 6:56 AM
Sorry, I haven't had a chance yet to look at it.

snowmoon2001
26th Jul 2009, 1:33 AM
Sorry, I haven't had a chance yet to look at it.

Oh no problem. Let me know any time if it doesn't work for you. :)

Mootilda
6th Aug 2009, 2:14 AM
Sorry for taking so long to get to this issue. I'll admit that I'm stumped.

I was able to reproduce the "'go to' becomes 'fish for'" problem with your lot. I checked the water level and it looks OK. I removed all CC, except for the required invisible tile, and it still has the problem.

However, I haven't been able to reproduce this issue with a newly-created lot, so I'm still trying to figure out why your lot has the problem and mine doesn't.

Has anyone else seen this issue?

aelflaed
6th Aug 2009, 1:02 PM
I didn't, but I have only made a couple of basements this way (been distracted with islander theme which doesn't require basements at all).

I was thinking of making a cave/dungeon for the island though, perhaps I should give it a try.

snowmoon2001
6th Aug 2009, 9:57 PM
Sorry for taking so long to get to this issue. I'll admit that I'm stumped.

I was able to reproduce the "'go to' becomes 'fish for'" problem with your lot. I checked the water level and it looks OK. I removed all CC, except for the required invisible tile, and it still has the problem.

However, I haven't been able to reproduce this issue with a newly-created lot, so I'm still trying to figure out why your lot has the problem and mine doesn't.


Maybe some more information about my building process will help, because I have this problem on all my no-slope basement lots, about half a dozen. One of my habits is that I always start building in my mac game with very little CC. It has EPs up to BV only. All but the smallest details of the physical structure are completed there.

Sometimes, the lot is later brought into my Windows game, which has all EPs. That was the case with the lot I sent you. It may well be that the water level fix doesn't work in BV, or the updating process does something to change it.

At the moment I don't have any no-slope basement lots in play on the mac side. I'll build a test lot in my BV game though, to see what the destination menu there looks like.

Mootilda
7th Aug 2009, 2:05 AM
Hmm... interesting. Let me keep working on this. I'm sorry that you can't use the technique for now.

Yes, it would be good to know whether this occurs with BV lots, or only with BV lots subsequently upgraded to all EPs.

I don't suppose that you've tried using the original method (the one that doesn't use the GridAdjuster)?

aelflaed
7th Aug 2009, 10:59 AM
I've just flooded my basement, not with this kind of method but apparently by shrinking the lot. The basement was the old-fashioned kind. Maybe it is the shrinking after all?

Now I'll have to trawl through old posts and see if I can work out how to fix it.

EDIT: okay, not the shrinking, although for some reason the trouble only showed up after that. Oh, I know why - because I picked up and dropped the lot to finalise the shrink. And the reason for the flooding was simply a high water table - I modified a section of the terrain, and the same lot is not flooded when placed on high ground. Phew.

Alarm bells off again.

Mootilda
7th Aug 2009, 5:30 PM
I considered that the "no go to" problem might be caused by the neighborhood water table, so I moved the original lot to high ground and still had the problem.

The LotAdjuster doesn't change the in-lot water level (except at the very edge), so shrinking shouldn't affect things. Plus, I checked the in-lot water level on the problem lot and it seemed fine. However, I must admit that I didn't try actually creating a no-slope basement then shrinking the lot myself, since I assumed that the shrinking had nothing to do with the problem.

I'll try it and see whether this allows me to reproduce the problem.

snowmoon2001
10th Aug 2009, 5:33 AM
Hmm... interesting. Let me keep working on this. I'm sorry that you can't use the technique for now.

Yes, it would be good to know whether this occurs with BV lots, or only with BV lots subsequently upgraded to all EPs.

I don't suppose that you've tried using the original method (the one that doesn't use the GridAdjuster)?

To be honest, I never did try the original method because it was confusing to me. The first such basements I made were from your simplified tute using the grid adjuster.

I tested in my BV game, and the destination menus there are the same as in AL. I don't know if updating just to FT is enough, but that wouldn't help mac players since EA never bothered to port those later EPs to OS X.

You are gravely mistaken though, if you think this little issue would prevent me from building these lots in BV for my mac game! :lol: I think I probably would not share them because of this, but for me it's an inconsequential price to pay for good-looking lots with basements. I'm grateful to you for the time spent developing the Grid Adjuster.

niol
12th Aug 2009, 8:00 AM
Just a thought,

What will that be if there is a grid point of the ground terrain layer lower than the corresponding grid point of the terrain water layer for a given region?

May that be a check for the game to define the presence of a lake or a pond?
May that in turns permit the visualisation of the destination menu?

Yet another thought,

Anyone interested in getting 2 copies of the same blank lot saved at different times? one before making a pond and one after such... Lot z value is unimportant in this case, I guess, so copies of neighbourhood packages may not be necessary.

May attach the resultants to this thread?

Simster 57
31st Aug 2009, 3:30 PM
thanks alot for the tutorial. I would really like to learn to use this kind of building but usually it's too time consuming. Arched bridges are usually my limit lol!

Mootilda
5th Oct 2009, 11:11 PM
What will that be if there is a grid point of the ground terrain layer lower than the corresponding grid point of the terrain water layer for a given region?

May that be a check for the game to define the presence of a lake or a pond?
May that in turns permit the visualisation of the destination menu?Good point. This might explain the presence of the option to fish. It might make sense to have a separate tool which will set the ground level, underground level and water levels, all at the same time. It might even be possible to have the tool decide which walls are "outside walls" and set the width and depth ranges accordingly. Hmm... might be an interesting project.

Anyone interested in getting 2 copies of the same blank lot saved at different times? one before making a pond and one after such... Lot z value is unimportant in this case, I guess, so copies of neighbourhood packages may not be necessary.

May attach the resultants to this thread?I'm not sure what you're suggesting here. Where exactly are you considering adding a pond? Under the basement, or elsewhere on the lot?

In any case, it's fine to attach test lot packages to this thread.

Aryeonos
22nd Oct 2009, 9:18 PM
Yeah I tried this, it doesn't work, after returning the ground level to it's normal form, I still can't see or access the bottom floor, at all, putting tiles doesn't do anything and there are a few craters in through the ground each time. that can only be fixed by distorting the basements floor.

Mootilda
30th May 2010, 6:01 AM
The new version of the TS2GridAdjuster V1.2 now has the option of making a no-slope basement. You specify the range and the elevation and it will do everything else for you, including adjusting the ground and water levels and making the ground invisible without any CC. A tutorial is included in the GridAdjuster download thread. (Post # 62)

efolger997
25th Apr 2011, 8:16 PM
Thanks for this! I'm going to go try it now! :D

stinksokie2
26th Apr 2011, 4:37 PM
Okej Nice <3