Ramps, Underground Basements, Enclosed Courtyards and Traversable 0-Click Levels

[Mootilda]

Some thoughts on a new project that mustluvcatz and I have been discussing.

I'm interested in an object which would allow a user to move from one level to another when there's no difference in elevation between the two levels.

This should allow people to have basements which are completely underground. Right now, basements require the main level to be above the ground level by at least two clicks, mainly because that's the minimal height for a set of stairs.

It should also allow the creation of ramps, by allowing a sim to move between two levels as if they were stepping onto a ramp, then sloping the upper level at a rate that a sim can still maneuver.

I was thinking that this might be accomplished with a modification of the Ascension stairs by Targa, available here:
http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=97367
or the 2-tile Wooden Ladder (stairs), available here:
http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=96542

Targa has specified that it is OK to modify his objects.

Basically, the mesh would have to be changed from being the height of a standard wall, to a height of 0 (both pads at approximately the same level).

As well, the stairs must take up 2 tiles, rather than 1, since sims can't reach the bottom landing if the top landing is blocking it. So, 1 tile for the bottom landing and an adjacent tile for the top landing.

I don't believe that there are any behaviors or interactions that would need to change. All stairs basically take a sim from one level to another. The Ascension stairs have no animations and I can live with that. I suppose that a simple walking animation would be even nicer.

I can currently use the standard Maxis non-modular stairs to get sims from one level to another, even when the levels are at (basically) the same elevation. I'm attaching a base-game test lot as proof-of-concept. On the lot, I have a red carpet and stairs at ground level, a white carpet and stairs at level 1, a yellow carpet and stairs at level 2, and a green carpet and chair at level 3. I've separated the levels by .0005 (some tiny fraction of a click) to reduce z-fighting. A sim will travel up the stairs to reach the chair on the top level, and down again to reach the mailbox.

[Update:] Tried the same test with the Ladder Stairs and it works even better than the maxis-made stairs. Instead of climbing the stairs just to fall down once he reaches the top, Don walks over to the ladder then quickly slides through the ladder and ends up on the next level. If the ladder were invisible, this would almost be what we want. The animation is almost correct when the sim is running.

[Another Update:] Just in case it's not obvious, this is how you add a different set of stairs:
1) Go to the lower level where you want the stairs.
2) Turn moveobjects on
3) Add stair to lower level, so that upper landing will be in the correct place.

You can ensure that the stairs are on the correct level by moving down a level in the game... the stairs will disappear when you are one level below the location of the stairs.

[HugeLunatic]

I have no idea how you do this level thing, but it's cool. =) I'm guessing you had the same problem as I did with the ascension stairs where the sims wouldn't use them? And that is why you need two tiles? I did make a mesh that was two tiles, well technically three since the base is on two and the upper level is one. I would guess I can remove one from the base so it is true two tile (one upper/one lower), but even Marvines ladder is three as is Targa's.

The mesh is just a flat plane, I've done some adjusting with routing values but so far they don't seem to make a difference. I'm thinking the mesh and it's routing values in the cres are almost irrelevant and the moving from one level to another is all in the stairs global, the animations, and the portals in the package.

In the pic the middle stair is an invisible recolor. Right now the sim swooshes really quickly through the middle tile, and if I can get rid of one tile then that speed may be slower. But I am still trying to find the basic walk animation to link to, I found the stairs ones and had my test sims walking through the air on invisible stairs. So if I can find the animation I may be able to make the area normal walk speed, at least I hope so.

I will let you know tomorrow when I'm more awake.

EDIT: I've tried a few different walk animations and instead of it replacing the stair anims it added to it. So instead of replacing the quick swoosh through the tile it would add the walk then swoosh through. Changing the footprint didn't seem to change the speed of the swoosh either like I was hoping.

I've attached the file, let me know if this is even what you were thinking of.

[Mootilda]

I have no idea how you do this level thing, but it's cool. =)Not quite sure if I understand your question, but I just used the TS2GridAdjuster with the parameters in the attached screenshot.

Ascension stairs have two problems. The first is that the top landing is much too high; of course, that shouldn't matter if it's invisible. The second is that the top level floor tiles interfere with the sim's ability to access the bottom landing. As you point out, that's why we need two separate tiles.

An invisible recolor sounds perfect. As I said, the animation is less important to me than the ability to actually traverse levels, although I'm sure that some people feel more strongly about having the correct animation.

The interesting thing is that a completely flat object should allow people to traverse other elevations which are currently impossible, such as one click or elevations which are not a click-multiple, although they'll probably do it with a slight jump.

Sounds like you've been making wonderful progress on this. Since I've never done any meshing, I wasn't sure whether this would be easy or difficult, although I was hoping that it would be a fairly simple project. Especially since we can piggyback off of other people's work. I've downloaded your prototype and will let you know how the testing goes.

[mustluvcatz]

*reading along with interest*

I have some ideas floating around in that vast cavern I call my mind. :) Sometimes my ideas work, sometimes they don't. Sometimes they're way out in left field and end up working out all right. Hopefully I'll be able to tell you in a few hours or so if at least one of them worked or not.

[Mootilda]

So far, I haven't been able to figure out how to place these correctly. The stair consists of 3 tiles: Bottom, Top, and an invisible footprint next to Top with the positioning arrow (screenshot #1).

If I place the stair so that Top is positioned at the upper floor tile (screenshot #2), it removes the upper floor tile and the ability to place a floor tile in that location. My sim says that no path is available.

If I place the stair so that the invisible footprint is positioned at the upper floor tile (screenshot #3), my sim walks over to Top, then seems unable to figure out how to use the stair.

Bottom and Top seem to be located on the lower level and the invisible footprint seems to be located on the top level (found by pressing <alt> and moving the object around; this is fiddly, but occasionally the invisible tile jumps up one standard level while the other two tiles remain on the ground level).

This set of tests performed with all EPs and SPs except the Store Edition.

[HugeLunatic]

Ok lets try version 2. This one doesn't seem quite so fiddly, it must not have liked my changes in the routing positions.

It places fine for normal wall heights, and I was able to place it with the moveobjects on cheat next to a foundation and it worked just fine. Both placing and the sim was able to move right up on the foundation. Visitors to the lot also had no issue.

The mesh takes up the red/green square and both are on the bottom, there is no visible mesh for the top square but it is one space in front of the mesh. The arrow just points which direction to go up.

[Mootilda]

OK, this one works, but it still requires 3 tiles. If I place it like #2 above, the game adds a plain wood floor for the third tile on the upper level and my sim ends up on that tile and can't proceed further; she can't seem to step back onto the middle tile. If I place it like #3 above, then my sim starts on the first tile, slides through the second tile, and ends up on the third tile, where she can then proceed to the next level.

This is actually pretty wonderful. While I'd prefer a two-tile solution, this is definitely most of the way there.

Testing done with all EPs and SPs except Store Edition. Next, I'm just going to check this with the base-game.

[Update] Same results with the base game. I noticed something which might be interesting. If I leave moveobjects off and try to place this, it's obvious that there are three separate parts to the footprint. Screenshot 1 shows that there are two tiles on the bottom level and two tiles on the top level, offset by one tile. Screenshot 2 seems to indicate that the two tiles on the top level are actually separate in some way and can end up at different elevations.

Is this observation of any use at all?

[HugeLunatic]

I've been playing with this to see if I can get it to two tiles, but it has other issues then. Such as not being able to be placed with a wall to the front and leaving the top foundation tile every where you hover with it. I'm going to keep playing with the routing slot with this two tile one to see if that is part of the issue, especially since Targa's ascension stairs don't do this.

The two tiles, there is one on bottom and one on top that occupy the same space and I think this is so for all EA stairs too. I think that is just a side effect of the walls being so short in the second pic but I will keep it mind just in case it does mean something more.

[Mootilda]

In the interim, I plan to make a few prototypes for the various building styles that are now available. I was also thinking that this might make true sunlit courtyards possible, by having a 0-height open foundation.

[Mootilda]

Looks like the underground basement works well with this stair, although I'm still testing.

Unfortunately, it won't work for a no-slope basement, since the sim needs to travel from the ground level (level = 0) to the first floor (level = 2); level 1 is the inverted level. A modular stair can traverse multiple levels, but these fixed stairs can't.

Small base-game lot attached for testing purposes only.

[Echo]

Just saw this thread now. Not sure if it's of any use to you at this point, but this:
http://www.modthesims.info/journal.php?do=showjournal&j=76
lets sims route across gaps and uneven terrain. Or have I misunderstood what you're trying to achieve? I'm not really a builder, so I may have completely missed the point. :)

[Mootilda]

Just saw this thread now. Not sure if it's of any use to you at this point, but this:
http://www.modthesims.info/journal.php?do=showjournal&j=76
lets sims route across gaps and uneven terrain. Or have I misunderstood what you're trying to achieve? I'm not really a builder, so I may have completely missed the point. :)Your bridge will only allow a sim to travel on one level. I need an object which allows a sim to travel between one level and another, like a staircase.

[amiehiggs]

Don't know if i should post here as I'm only just experimenting with the grid adjuster but.... I use invisible modular stairs and I place them at a placeable height usually 4 click and then adjust the height. There is a funny animation, but that's just the same as stealth stairs. I haven't try'ed with a smaller level I imagine 2 clicks would work and the animation would probably look better. I'll load up my game and try and get some pics.

[HugeLunatic]

So far no luck making any changes to the passage stairs. Could you attach a testing lot for the no slope basement for me? So when you add the modular stairs for no slope basements, are they placed before you use the lot adjuster to invert the levels?

Modular stairs and there passage is different, at least from what I've read. Apparently they allow more sims to pass through where fixed staircases don't so they don't create choke points on stairs. No idea how this is implemented or if I can even accomplish that, especially considering I keep crashing both TS2 and TS3. LOL

[amiehiggs]

Here's some pics to illustrate what I'm talking about.

Like I said i use an invisible recolor for my modular stairs.
Visible stairs are just for illustration.
http://i1047.photobucket.com/albums/b475/brownysgirl_photos/Stair%20tests/stair1.jpg
http://i1047.photobucket.com/albums/b475/brownysgirl_photos/Stair%20tests/stair2.jpg
http://i1047.photobucket.com/albums/b475/brownysgirl_photos/Stair%20tests/stair3.jpg
http://i1047.photobucket.com/albums/b475/brownysgirl_photos/Stair%20tests/stair4.jpg

[Mootilda]

Could you attach a testing lot for the no slope basement for me?I believe that I kept that test lot, so I'll attach it as soon as my dev machine is booted. [Update: unfortunately, I kept experimenting with the lot, so I'll need to make some changes before I can upload it.]

So when you add the modular stairs for no slope basements, are they placed before you use the lot adjuster to invert the levels?No, I place the stairs after the inversion. Would you like me to try placing them first?

Don't know if i should post here as I'm only just experimenting with the grid adjusterYes, please feel free to post. I started this thread in order to get more ideas. Welcome.

I use invisible modular stairs and I place them at a placeable height usually 4 click and then adjust the height. There is a funny animation, but that's just the same as stealth stairs. I haven't [tried] with a smaller level I imagine 2 clicks would work and the animation would probably look better. I'll load up my game and try and get some pics.This is a very interesting idea. I will definitely try this; with a 2-click working invisible stair adjusted down to 0 clicks, this may be a good solution, especially for the no-slope basement. Thanks for the idea; I'll let you know how it goes.

[HugeLunatic]

No I don't need you to try placing them first. I just want to play with a lot and the modular stairs to see if I could get a modular version to work like the other one. I am wondering if a modular version would be more useful then. And if I can work on a different mesh/package placing them myself it will be easier.

[Mootilda]

I just want to play with a lot and the modular stairs to see if I could get a modular version to work like the other one. I am wondering if a modular version would be more useful then.Would there be any way to mod the modular stairs so that they will allow 1-click and 0-click placement, rather than having to place them before adjusting the grid?

[Mootilda]

The simple passage stairs won't work for a no-slope basement, since the sim needs to travel from the ground level (level = 0) to the first floor (level = 2); level 1 is the inverted level.

Small base-game lot attached for testing purposes only.

[amiehiggs]

Might be a silly question but is there a way to renumber the levels in simpe so the basement becomes level 0, the ground floor level 1 etc?

[mustluvcatz]

I thought about modular stairs myself- even opened one of them up in SimPE. I looked at the GMDC and closed SimPE, lol. I couldn't figure out for the life of me what was what. I think there was 10 different parts? I should've looked at them all in MilkShape to figure it out because a modular stair is the one stair that keeps sticking in mind as being the one that can be made to work here.
I realize there are 4 steps to modular stairs. But they're the only thing I can think of that adjusts itself if it needs to be longer, so I keep thinking that a modular stair can be modified in some way to be almost flat- or just one step. But I also keep thinking that just won't work unless there's more done to it- and I'm sure that would mean changing a behavior/interaction/animation/somethingelsei'mnotcomfortableplayingwith?

[Mootilda]

Might be a silly question but is there a way to renumber the levels in simpe so the basement becomes level 0, the ground floor level 1 etc?No. The game always treats level 0 as the ground level. I did look into using level = -1 (the underground pool level) for a no-slope basement, but the game is unwilling to allow me access to the level (since there is no way to go to that level within the game).

I realize there are 4 steps to modular stairs. But they're the only thing I can think of that adjusts itself if it needs to be longer, so I keep thinking that a modular stair can be modified in some way to be almost flat- or just one step. But I also keep thinking that just won't work unless there's more done to it- and I'm sure that would mean changing a behavior/interaction/animation/somethingelsei'mnotcomfortableplayingwith?It's easy to create a 2-click modular stair, but 1-click and 0-click don't currently work (at least, I haven't been able to get them to work).

I'm completely willing to admit that I may have made some bad assumptions in choosing fixed stairs and that the modular stairs may be the way to go, even if the stairs have to be placed before the grid adjustment.

[amiehiggs]

No. The game always treats level 0 as the ground level.It was a silly question!!!
Sorry.
The only thing i can think of is making a stealth stair that goes from the ground floor to level 2 before conversion.
Ill give it a go.

[Mootilda]

It was a silly question!!!Not at all. That was actually my first approach; level = -1 was my second try.

The ground level is used for a number of things, but lot placement within the neighborhood is one of the most important. If the ground level at the road isn't at a relative elevation of 0, it can cause major problems.

When tackling a new problem, I think that it's really important to keep an open mind and consider all options.

[amiehiggs]

Okay i got it working :) will post some screens with an explanation shortly.

Editing to add pics.
http://i1047.photobucket.com/albums/b475/brownysgirl_photos/Stair%20tests/stair5.jpg
2 1 tile floors should be 2 1 click high floors.
http://i1047.photobucket.com/albums/b475/brownysgirl_photos/Stair%20tests/stair6.jpg
http://i1047.photobucket.com/albums/b475/brownysgirl_photos/Stair%20tests/stair7.jpg
http://i1047.photobucket.com/albums/b475/brownysgirl_photos/Stair%20tests/stair8.jpg
http://i1047.photobucket.com/albums/b475/brownysgirl_photos/Stair%20tests/stair9.jpg
http://i1047.photobucket.com/albums/b475/brownysgirl_photos/Stair%20tests/stair10.jpg
http://i1047.photobucket.com/albums/b475/brownysgirl_photos/Stair%20tests/stair11.jpg

Stairs can be invisible.

[Mootilda]

Step 2 (use CFE to return to 16 clicks per level) is probably unnecessary.

For some reason, I'm having problems placing two 2-click stairs side by side in this scenario. Is that working for you? [Update:] Nevermind. I placed floor tiles on the ground and the stairs are quite happy now.

[aelflaed]

Ooh, just found this thread! Looks like you are all making a good deal of progress. Am I right that it looks like we don't need a new object, just an invisible modular stair and a bit of tricky building?

Ami's basement stairs are one tile in from the edge - am I confused, or could the stairs actually be placed against the basement wall?

I've been busy with many other things, but I'm happy to see great minds are still working on this kind of thing. I'll be happy to join in if there's anything I can do.

[Mootilda]

Ideally, it would be nice to have a new object with more reasonable animations. However, 2 or 4-click invisible modular stairs are looking pretty good.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "one tile in from the edge"? Maybe it would help if I shared my latest underground no-slope basement lot.

[Mootilda]

Invisible modular stairs seem to work pretty well for a no-slope basement, allowing the sim to travel from the ground level (level = 0) to the first floor (level = 2).

Small base-game lot attached for testing purposes only.

I've attached screenshots for the GridAdjuster. The water level is handled by starting with a sloped basement built 16 clicks down.

[amiehiggs]

Step 2 (use CFE to return to 16 clicks per level) is probably unnecessary.

Yes I just did that so I didn't confuse myself (its easily done).
I had a little play with ramps using this method my only problem was the length of wall needed to get the level of elevation I wanted.
http://i1047.photobucket.com/albums/b475/brownysgirl_photos/Stair%20tests/ramp1.jpg
http://i1047.photobucket.com/albums/b475/brownysgirl_photos/Stair%20tests/ramp2.jpg
http://i1047.photobucket.com/albums/b475/brownysgirl_photos/Stair%20tests/ramp3.jpg
Top level is 4 clicks.

[Mootilda]

Here are some of the things that I like to ensure work with these lots. I usually test with base game only and with all EPs and SPs (except Store Edition), just to make sure that things are likely to work for any configuration:

1) Sims will enter house on their own initiative.
2) Newspaper delivery (especially Apartment Life)
3) Visitors can find front door and ring doorbell
4) Burglars manage to get into the house

[Mootilda]

I had a little play with ramps using this method my only problem was the length of wall needed to get the level of elevation I wanted.4 clicks high over 10 tiles... is this the maximum slope that sims can navigate?

Ami's basement stairs are one tile in from the edge - am I confused, or could the stairs actually be placed against the basement wall?Did my latest upload answer your question?

Note that these no-slope basements still have the (known) problem that some objects don't work well next to the wall. Most things seem to work, but I found that TVs against the wall in the basement tend to cause the sim to error.

[amiehiggs]

4 clicks high over 10 tiles... is this the maximum slope that sims can navigate?
I see. Im not sure but i think this tutorial might be of interest...Link (http://thesims2.ea.com/exchange/story_detail.php?asset_id=16529&asset_type=story&user_id=136631) We might be able to use some of the techniques.

[Mootilda]

You mean the "sliding tile"? I wonder what allows the sim to travel up such a huge elevation difference.

[amiehiggs]

I think its because they see it as the same level.

[HugeLunatic]

So far no luck finding the bhavs that control how many steps are placed in the bridge (middle part) of modular stairs. But there are 54 of them. LoL I also haven't been able to apply modular stair bhavs to fixed stairs.

I have however, removed animations from some modular stairs. I could probably create a set of modular stairs that reference a base game mesh/texture but have no animations. That way if you have existing recolorable mod stairs with an invisible recolor then these should work fine and the file size would be small.

Edit: Stealth stairs already achieve this with the sliding...doh!

[Mootilda]

I have however, removed animations from some modular stairs. I could probably create a set of modular stairs that reference a base game mesh/texture but have no animations. That way if you have existing recolorable mod stairs with an invisible recolor then these should work fine and the file size would be small.That sounds good. Right now, I'm using Eddief66's invisible recolor of Numenor's *Recolourable* Holy Smoke modular stairs, for exactly that reason: no need for either CEP or the Scriptorium to be installed. Unfortunately, the invisible recolor is no longer available.

[amiehiggs]

I think im not understanding the slope options correctly does the length of the wall determine the height of the slope?
I want a slope of 0 to 16 clicks but im just getting a slope thats much less than that.

[Mootilda]

I think im not understanding the slope options correctly does the length of the wall determine the height of the slope?
I want a slope of 0 to 16 clicks but im just getting a slope thats much less than that.I'm not sure what you're asking? Are you asking about the GridAdjuster parameters?

I have however, removed animations from some modular stairs. I could probably create a set of modular stairs that reference a base game mesh/texture but have no animations. That way if you have existing recolorable mod stairs with an invisible recolor then these should work fine and the file size would be small.

Edit: Stealth stairs already achieve this with the sliding...doh!I'm not very familiar with stealth stairs, but I thought that stealth stairs had a climbing animation, followed by a slide upwards. [Update:] Verified. Stealth stairs have a climbing animation for the first 2 stairs.

[Mootilda]

Could you post a screenshot of the GridAdjuster parameters that you're using? That might help me to understand where the problem lies.

[Update:] Oh, I think that I see what you're saying. Yes, the range (from front to back or left to right) affects the slope. Your starting elevation is assumed to be at the start of the range and your ending elevation is assumed to be at the end of the range. If you want the slope to go in a different direction, then change the rotation.

So, if you want a slope of 16 clicks for each tile, over a range of 10 tiles, then you need to specify a slope of 160 clicks.

Does that answer your question? Sorry about being so dense.

[amiehiggs]

yes sorry im having trouble with the size of the slope.

[amiehiggs]

Your not being dense in fact i think its me!!!
Ok what i want is for this wall to start at 0 clicks (stair side) and finish at 16 click but its not!! What am i doing wrong.
http://i1047.photobucket.com/albums/b475/brownysgirl_photos/Stair%20tests/ramp4.jpg

[Mootilda]

I suspect that the problem is your range.

Try:
Levels: 1 to 1
Depth: 14 to 15
Width: 3 to 13
Sloped
Elevation 16 to 0 clicks
Rotation: Left to Right

(or: Elevation 0 to 16 clicks from Right to Left)

[amiehiggs]

Worked perfectly sorry for being dumb im still working out all the buttons.

[Mootilda]

A fully enclosed courtyard seems to work well with 2-click invisible modular stairs, except for the lighting at night. No matter how much lighting I add in the courtyard, it seems to stay pretty dark at the 0-height ground level. Lighting works fine on the full-height main level.

2x2 base-game lot attached for testing purposes only.

[Update:] Problems resolved. Test lot removed. See next proof of concept post.

[aelflaed]

From that linked tutorial and my own long-ago stealth stairs use, the stairs actually get the sim from level to level, while a 'slide' gives access to the other parts of the same floor, regardless of how rocky the trip. I don't remember sims sliding on the actual stairs - perhaps I overlooked it. I stopped bothering with stealth stairs pretty early in my builidng experiments.

I haven't done a 'tile-slide' as such, but as far as I know, sims will traverse any sloped floor without noticing the incline. It's not really a level change, so they carry on as normal - the level is only visual, and only for the player. Rope ladders and bridges are made the same way, and the sims walk 'normally' across/up the floortiles. I have made houses with bridges and ladders this way.

Mootilda, I've downloaded that house and will have a look - don't want to spend time creating my own basements at present, so thanks. But the screenshot of your stairs pretty much answered my question.

Regarding the courtyard house, did you try the outdoor spotlights? Any indoor/wall light gives almost no light when placed outside, and the fence lights are not much better - unless you want to light up the fence. The ground lights are far more effective.

EDIT - Had a look at both houses. Couldn't improve the lighting in the courtyard at night, but it certainly looks good in the daytime. I thought there might be some routing problems when crossing the lot, with sims walking the circumference of the house instead of crossing the courtyyard - but Julien did cross it at least some of the times. The basement house seemed to work fine (only a quick look really).

The invisible stair animations do look odd, but could be ignored. It would be lovely to have an object that did the job smoothly, though.

Nice houses, Mootilda! (I did have to cheat Julien a whole lot more money so he could test them for me.)

[HugeLunatic]

I have a modular stair without the animation, they slide through it just like the previous fixed stair version. The problem is that to have no animation they need to be new stairs and will require a script file. My little confusion earlier was because I forgot to set the animation for the local package and it was globally affecting all modular stairs. LoL

At the moment it is not recolorable, and that is either because I have a typo or because it is referencing another mesh. But considering that this needs a new package and script file I could just as well make a mesh consisting of a flat plane and include the invisible recolor in the package. Unless you want a normal stair/railing package.

[Mootilda]

I haven't done a 'tile-slide' as such, but as far as I know, sims will traverse any sloped floor without noticing the incline.That's good news. I've been ignoring the ramps for the moment, since amiehiggs has been focusing on them.

Mootilda, I've downloaded that house and will have a look - don't want to spend time creating my own basements at present, so thanks. But the screenshot of your stairs pretty much answered my question.Good. I realized later what your concern might be; were you talking about the standard fixed stairs from the main floor to the basement? I was so fixated on the 0-height stairs that I didn't even notice the other ones.

Regarding the courtyard house, did you try the outdoor spotlights? Any indoor/wall light gives almost no light when placed outside, and the fence lights are not much better - unless you want to light up the fence. The ground lights are far more effective.I tried the ground lights, street lights, table lights, ... just about anything that was willing to be placed. Nothing seemed to make much of a difference.

I'm tending towards the belief that the game somehow recognizes that any light placed on the ground level is taller than the level above. I intend to experiment with this further, to see whether I can figure out the rules. This problem reminds me of the problem with Apartment Life (I think?) when you try to move things up and down on the wall... the lighting isn't always correct.

[Update:] Experimentation with the 2-click foundation seems to confirm this. Lights which are under 2-clicks, like the fence lights already on the lot and the low ground lights, work just fine. However, the tall ground lights and fence lights on taller fences shed no light at all.

Nice houses, Mootilda! (I did have to cheat Julien a whole lot more money so he could test them for me.)Yeah, I kind of got carried away. :lol: I like the house enough that I'm thinking about making a 2-click foundation version for upload, if I can figure out any lighting issues. I'll be able to reduce the price a bit by making the foundation level a real foundation. I don't want to remove the ground level foundation completely, because then it becomes difficult to make changes to the main level, since it is now floating in the air with no means of support.

I have a modular stair without the animation, they slide through it just like the previous fixed stair version.Is the sliding less noticeable with the modular stairs (since they require only two tiles) than with the fixed stairs (which requires three tiles)? In any case, I think that the sliding looks better than the climbing motion; sliding looks smooth and deliberate, whereas the climbing looks like they're tripping.

The problem is that to have no animation they need to be new stairs and will require a script file.OK, that makes sense. It's unfortunate to require people to install a script, but I understand why it's required. I'm always looking for the simplest solution possible; as I'm sure you've noticed, I try to avoid CC whenever possible.

But considering that this needs a new package and script file I could just as well make a mesh consisting of a flat plane and include the invisible recolor in the package. Unless you want a normal stair/railing package.No, I think that the flat plane is perfect; no real need for a stair mesh. Even if the object is used to traverse a 1-click difference in elevation, the floor tiles should provide the semblance of a stair.

[Mootilda]

A fully enclosed courtyard seems to work well with 2-click invisible modular stairs, including the lighting at night. Previous lighting problem solved by raising ground level to full-height inside of the courtyard. GridAdjuster screenshots attached.

Note that I reduced the size of the landings inside of the courtyard, to increase the amount of space that could be properly lit. I didn't bother to take new daytime pictures, since the lot hasn't changed otherwise.

2x2 base-game lot attached for testing purposes only.

[aelflaed]

oh, well done! I mrely confirmed that you were right about not being able to light the previous version - not much use, I know. Glad you figured it out.

[HugeLunatic]

A modular stairs version. Has no animations so they slide through the steps, but it does have the invisible recolor included in the package. The script file is in the zip as well.

I'm still fiddling with animations, if I can figure out how to stop the loop animation for the number of stairs I think a standard walk animation might work and they wouldn't slide through then.

[Mootilda]

I'm still fiddling with animations, if I can figure out how to stop the loop animation for the number of stairs I think a standard walk animation might work and they wouldn't slide through then.That sounds wonderful, if it's possible. In the interim, I'll start testing with your latest object. Thanks!

[amiehiggs]

A modular stairs version. Has no animations so they slide through the steps, but it does have the invisible recolor included in the package. The script file is in the zip as well.

I'm still fiddling with animations, if I can figure out how to stop the loop animation for the number of stairs I think a standard walk animation might work and they wouldn't slide through then.

This is wonderful I will have a good test tommorow when the sprog is in school.

[Mootilda]

A small home with a no-slope basement and an attached ramp seems to work well with the new invisible modular stairs. GridAdjuster screenshots for the ramp attached.

Small base-game lot attached for testing purposes only.

[amiehiggs]

Ive had a little play test of the above lot and all seems fine except for Sims standing in the ramp when on the ground floor, that easily ignored. I'm working on some ramps and all seems fine so far will post again when i have something to show.

[Mootilda]

My main problem was that sims could not interact on the sloped part of the ramp. They seem to require a flat surface, probably so that the animations work correctly.

[amiehiggs]

My main problem was that sims could not interact on the sloped part of the ramp. They seem to require a flat surface, probably so that the animations work correctly.
I didnt notice but thinking about it, they dont seem to hang around on the sloped surface. I must test some more.

[aelflaed]

Sims do have trouble interacting on uneven surfaces - try socialising them on a bumpy lot! They spend the whole time readjusting their relative positions until the player is screaming, and then drop their queue as like as not.

[GeneralOperationsDirector]

I just now found this thread, thanks to a link posted here by Mootilda. Exciting progress you have been making!

Mootilda, a comment re the top footprint tiles "breaking up" when you position the object: I have noticed that happening anytime I attempt to place a multi-tile object on sufficiently-unlevel ground in both Sims 1 and Sims 2. moveobjects 1 bypasses, amongst other things, the checks that cause the visual breakup of the footprint.

....hmm, I wonders what moveobjects 1 does to the placing of modular stairs....

I do have a question, however. Does something like this that can bridge a one-tile gap between two different-level floors at the same altitude exist yet? I have an existing lot with an extreme slope front-to-back [and a near-vertical CLIFF between the habitable area and the side-road!] that has Escher-like transitions between sections of flooring, including such oddities as a level-1 floor near the front that is several floor-levels LOWER than a level-0 floor near the rear. Aside from using Lot Adjuster to add the second road, Mountainside Manor was constructed entirely with standard in-game tools [and downloaded *content*], but no funky cheats [I no grok CFE :( ]. Near the back of the lot, I have a ground-level floor and a foundation at the same level, with only a single tile gap between them. It seems silly that the Sasquatch who live there with a Servo have to walk *down* a four-step modular stair and *up* another four-step stair to get to what is visualy the same level. If anyone has anything suitable that I can plunk down across the gap, I`ll gladly give it a test.

[Mootilda]

Depends upon whether you care about the animation. If you care, then I don't think anything exists. If you're willing to put up with odd animations, try HL's SimplePassage2 in post #6 in this thread. I'm not sure that it will work, but it seems your most likely choice.

If I remember correctly, that object has a "sliding" motion.

[GeneralOperationsDirector]

I care *some* about the animation. "Funky" animations are only acceptable when better doesn`t exist, but I do have a few items in my game whose animations are slightly "funky". The Ascension [sp?] stairs pet-use animation is "funky", as they use the regular pet-using-stair animation, and the M&G salute-the-sun animation makes for some "funky" Sim-object interactions when the Sim interacts with something immediately upon exiting the house, as just two examples. Anyway, I`ve already downloaded everything I could from this thread [some items were already deleted when I came across it], so I have the item you suggest; I may give it a try, but the two-stairs situation might be preferable. Dunno yet. ::shrug::

Oh, what is the easiest known way of getting two different levels of flooring at the same visual level to visualy touch? GridAdjuster, I presume? As far as I know, it simply canNOT be done in-game [unless CFE can bypass some of the restrictions? I no grok CFE.].

[Mootilda]

I believe that you can get a 0-click level in-game, but it's a long involved and error-prone process, so I've never even tried to do it. I seem to remember a tutorial somewhere; I can try to find it for you if you'd like.

My recommendation would be the GridAdjuster, but then... ;)

[aelflaed]

It was Vindicare who made the 0-click walls tutorial. I've tried it, but it was a pain to get right. On the whole, not worth the bother for me.

Gridadjuster probably does the same as Vindicare achieved with CFE, only more easily - with the proviso that you have to keep opening and closing the game to check what is happening. (Well, I do, anyway - maybe I'm just not very good at it!)

[Mootilda]

Gridadjuster probably does the same as Vindicare achieved with CFE, only more easily - with the proviso that you have to keep opening and closing the game to check what is happening. (Well, I do, anyway - maybe I'm just not very good at it!)I have to frequently switch between the two as well. Even though I understand the patterns and parameters well, I am still amazed every time that I get what I want. Plus, I think that I often start with a very general idea of what I want, then I progressively refine the idea until it actually looks good.

Luckily, working with the base game and minimal CC means that it doesn't take too long to start the game.

However, I know that I'm prejudiced towards the GridAdjuster; I much prefer it to CFE and especially when what I want requires a complex process like Vindicare's 0-click levels and inverted levels.

[aelflaed]

Agreed!

[GeneralOperationsDirector]

I wouldn`t have the option of going back-and-forth, as it takes my full game [all expansions & stuff packs, EXCEPT Holiday and Store] TWENTY MINUTES to go from Launch to Live Mode, and removing the CC to allow it to take only five minutes isn`t an option when working on a lot that uses lots of CC that`s scattered hither, thither, and you about the directory tree underneath Downloads. It also isn`t important enough for me to learn CFE *just* for one single Escheresque lot. ;) Especially when I don`t really know what I want to DO with it anyway. [It`s just sorta growing as I play.]

Still, I`ll eagerly try out anything you geniouses come up with! :up:

[Mootilda]

This is why I try to limit my EPs and CC, especially when I'm building. 20 minutes! That's insane.

Anyway, if you wanted to try the GridAdjuster on the lot, you could always copy your lot, without CC, to a barebones AnyGame and experiment on it. Take snapshots of the GridAdjuster parameters each time that you run it. When you have something that you like, go back and repeat the necessary GA sessions on your real lot. Should work first time.

[GeneralOperationsDirector]

Yeah, twenty minutes, when the same computer with the same expansions can do the same job in five minutes with no CC installed. I likes my CC. :D ***Good idea. May consider it. Not likely to do it, though, as even that sounds like a lot of work for no-clue-what-I-want results. The story behind the odd lot in question is that my Sasquatch accepted an Outing and took along the household he was living in, including the Sim who brought him home with her on her vacation. During the outing, she got struck by lightning and died. As I had been looking for an excuse to move him out of the household, I went with the event, had him quit his job as the top of the medical career, get a job in the Paranormal career [thanks to MogHughson`s Work Notice board], and --before his first day of work, even!-- use the career reward and most of her money to buy a "perfect" resurection. Then, feeling bad because *he* had invited her along, he moved out to go back to the forest, except that --since he had gotten used to the civilized life-- he couldn`t leave the amenities behind entirely, so he bought a [very steep!] hillside lot, planted lots of vegitation there, and started "growing" a home, following random impulses. I`m using "garden grass" floor tiles for his floors, outdoor-style modular stairs [especialy the one featuring designable stone steps], and he hasn`t any walls yet. The result is --deliberately-- a strange combination of pseudo-forest and primitive amenities; an excelent testing-ground for 0-click level-traversals, though not particularly useful for testing the other things discussed in this thread.

I hope I haven`t derailed discussion TOO much.

Edit: Re the twenty minutes, this might explain it.

[Phaenoh]

What happened to this project? I've only just found it, but I'm not seeing a proper tutorial on how to make ramps or basements or courtyards, nor an upload with HL's stair thing. Does it all work and just get forgotten about, or was there something crippling that killed it?

[Mootilda]

I wanted this for a private project, not for an upload. It seems that the invisible modular stair is a great solution and works perfectly. I tend to point people at this thread when they have a project like this, but I suppose that it would make sense to make a proper tutorial.