Adoption and Skin Colour/Race??

[lauratje86]

I'm kind of insipired to start this thread based on a thread in the Sims 2 Discussion forum, which is asking how to make sure sims can adopt a child with the same skin colour as them. An innocuous question, I thought, but it provoked some debate. As that is not a debate forum, and this is, I thought I'd try and move the real world debate to here, and leave that thread for sim-related solutions to the OP's question!

So yeah, the question is basically: Do you think that couples/people that adopt should be able to/be forced to adopt a child with a similar racial background to them?

I come from the UK, and I do hope to adopt when I'm older/more responsible. If the UK adoption policies remain the same, and I adopt a child from within the UK and not from abroad, chances are it will be Caucasian, like me. Why? Because that's the policy, as (apparently) research has suggested that children who are adopted by a person/people from the same racial and cultural background will have less difficulties adjusting to their new family life. Here's a quote from www.adoption.co.uk: "Do you understand that some black or ethnic minority children might grow up with a negative self-image if adopted by parents of a different race and culture?" And here's a link: Ethnicity & Adoption (http://www.bemyparent.org.uk/features/finding-the-right-family-can-be-hard,206,AR.html)

Apparently the policy is under debate, for various reasons, including the fact that it can delay adoption placements.

Thoughts, opinions, more links to relevant stuff??

[mangaroo]

Ethnicity should never be allowed to delay adoption placement significantly. If you have parents of a different background willing and eager to love a child and no other prospect in sight, place the child. It's in the child's best interest to have a home. However, I also don't think it's inappropriate or unfair for an adoption agency to give preference to adoptive parents with an ethnic background similar to the child's, when they have multiple families to choose from. I just think that gets...tricky. Where I live, families can be pretty diverse.

I also think we get into this chicken-and-egg problem with racism, where how the heck do we learn to ignore the color of each others' skins when we are always obsessing over the color of each others' skins? But I don't think the adoption pool is where we're going to solve that conundrum.

But you're framing the question from the policy perspective. What I noticed in the TS2 Discussion thread was that the player didn't want the child with a significantly different skintone. While the implications of racism in playing the game make me unhappy, the reality is that no responsible adoption agency would place a child of a different race with parents who made it clear they wanted a child of their own race. That is not a healthy or loving environment for the child.

[lauratje86]

Ethnicity should never be allowed to delay adoption placement significantly. If you have parents of a different background willing and eager to love a child and no other prospect in sight, place the child. It's in the child's best interest to have a home. However, I also don't think it's inappropriate or unfair for an adoption agency to give preference to adoptive parents with an ethnic background similar to the child's, when they have multiple families to choose from. I just think that gets...tricky. Where I live, families can be pretty diverse.

I also think we get into this chicken-and-egg problem with racism, where how the heck do we learn to ignore the color of each others' skins when we are always obsessing over the color of each others' skins? But I don't think the adoption pool is where we're going to solve that conundrum.

But you're framing the question from the policy perspective. What I noticed in the TS2 Discussion thread was that the player didn't want the child with a significantly different skintone. While the implications of racism in playing the game make me unhappy, the reality is that no responsible adoption agency would place a child of a different race with parents who made it clear they wanted a child of their own race. That is not a healthy or loving environment for the child.

Oh yes, diversity is the norm (pretty much) here too. But I do completely understand why adoption agencies try to place children with families from a similar ethnic background.

As a caucasian woman, I would even go so far as to say if I ever adopt a child I would prefer to adopt a caucasian child. Because I am racist and think that people from other ethnic backgrounds are inferior in any way? No, of course not. But because, if I ever adopt a child, I will want them to have the best possible chance of being happy and feeling like an "insider" (as opposed to an outsider) in my extended family. As my entire family is caucasian, I think that I would be better suited to adopting a child with the same ethnic background as that way they would be in a family that would allow them to continue to be part of their birth heritage and culture - to stay with their roots, as it were. Also, if I adopted a child with a different ethnic background to me, they would always look "adopted" and would have to go through life dealing with that. I can certainly imagine people asking things like "so, what country are you from then?" to an adopted child if they were black or asian, and that could be upsetting to some children if the answer was Birmingham (UK) and not Malawi or China like people may be expecting! Questions like that could upset them, make them feel insecure or like they didn't belong, and I wouldn't want any child of mine, be it adopted or biological, to feel out of place in my family.

Of course, everything would change if my partner/husband/wife wasn't caucasian! Then I would hope to adopt a child whose ethnicity was reflected by at least one, preferably both of our backgrounds. For the same reasons as mentioned above, basically.

If I decided to adopt internationally (which is unlikely - the UK is short of potential adoptive parents as it is so I think I'd adopt here), then the child would be able to answer Malawi or China or whatever if asked where they were born, which gets rid of that problem, but leads to a whole host of new ones......

I guess that what I'm trying to say is that I don't think that wanting an adopted child (in RL or in the sims) to have a similar ethnic background to their adopted parent(s) is necessarily racist - it depends on why their ethnicity is important to you.

However, if there was a child of a completely different ethnic background to me whom adoption agencies were struggling to place who I would be able to give a good home to I would adopt them without hesitation. But if they could find a good home for that child with parents who shared his/her ethnicity I would definitely suggest that they placed him/her there instead, for the child's benefit.

[Sunbee]

I think this idea of placing babies with same 'race' parents can go a little too far, at least in how we define race. My kids are half black and half white, but they would be defined as black for 'race'. (Trust me, I get into it with anyone who want to label them at all. I figure that's their decision what 'race' they want to call themselves, as 'race' is a social construct.)
There are more similarities across class than 'race' in the US. A wealthy 'black' kid and a wealthy 'white' kid will have more similar experiences than a wealthy 'black' kid and a poor 'black' kid. My kids are affected much more by having a natural-born parent and an immigrant parent than by our skin colors.
It's probably more do-able to place a kid with a family with the same ethnicity in Europe because you seem to mix a little less. I have ancestors from half a dozen Caucasian ethnicities. My kids' biological cousins can claim very different ethnic backgrounds than my own kids.
I think it's more important that an infant be placed with a stable family than with someone who might look a little like them. A child who is older would probably benefit more from familiar customs than similar appearances, which, especially in the US, may not indicate similar cultural practices at all.

[AlexandraSpears]

I am a race realist, and race definitely matters. Race goes beyond skin color. There are physical, emotional, and intellectual differences.

I invite people to check out American Renaissance, a race-realist site: http://www.amren.com/siteinfo/rg-consciousness.html#consciousness

It is not a "white supremacist" site, let me be clear. It does not promote hate towards blacks, Hispanics, etc. I enjoy the site and I have some Amerind ancestry.

[AlexandraSpears]

I have a British friend who says that his city has really gone to pot because of all the "diversity."

If people really, truly want "diversity," maybe they should stop encouraging all the mixing. Does that make sense?

Wojtek--What country are you in? I'm half Polish. :)

[lauratje86]

Sunbee: The way the UK government defines race would actually have your children down as "mixed race" - more specifically including country of origin etc ie British caucasian, black Jamaican etc. If mixed race children are put up for adoption, an attempt would be made to match them up with parents who match their ethnicity as closely as possible - for example a British caucasian woman and a black Jamaican man for a mixed race British/Jamaican caucasian/black child. So that they would be part of a family with similar cultural/racial heritage, which is apparently a good thing as far as helping kids adjust and fit in to a new family.
I don't know if we mix less, that is quite possible though. One reads more about mixed race children in the USA than in the UK, but it does happen here too! I think we have less nationalities to start with, in a way, in that we don't tend to trace our heritage back as far. I have no idea where my great-great grandparents are from, for example - it's probably England/Ireland but if not it makes no difference to me as I still consider myself English and a bit Irish.
It's probably worth mentioning as well that these policies are really aimed at slightly older children who are being placed for adoption - comparatively few babies are placed for adoption and this is often handled separately, with different procedures and generally a pretty long waiting list as lots of people want to adopt babies but there aren't that many needing adoption.
And yes, I agree, in the UK too wealth (we'd probably call it class) is very important, probably more important than race as far as life experience is concerned.

AlexandraSpears: Will get back to you on the website when I've had a chance to read more of it.
Depends on whether diversity means that you want to keep cultures separate so there are lots of differences (which is the original meaning) or that you want everyone to mix (how it's used nowadays).

Wojtek: Yes, of course! I'm just looking at ethnicity here, a lot is also done to match the child(ren) and the adopter(s) to one another on a more personal level, and there are meetings and a trial period and lots of support. There's still a lot of emotional connecting etc, of course there is.
To be honest I'd hate to see the cultural background (in RL) taken away - I just wish that it and skin colour wasn't such an issue for anyone. It shouldn't be a divisive thing like it is, but that doesn't mean that getting rid of it altogether would be better!!
I really don't see the UK adoption policies as a "problem with ethnicity". Why is it a problem (ie a bad thing) to want to place children with people who reflect their cultural and racial heritage, and have similar/the same customs to them? The UK does have intolerant people, but nowhere near everyone, and probably no more than anywhere else (I have no actual stats to back this up though) and maybe less than some places (again, no stats).

If I missed commenting on something someone wants a comment on, just let me know. There was a lot to respond to, I may well've missed something......

[wickedblue]

Race extends far beyond skin color, especially in a world that is filled with so much bigotry and intolerance.

Even a person that has a very broad world-view and has no outright prejudice against people different from them, cannot ever truly experience what it's like to live as a person with a different skin color. I'm Caucasian and American so I can only speak from this perspective and I think it's easiest for me to frame this from my own personal experience.

I am in a relationship with a black man and we have one biological daughter together, she has black skin and his hair texture and is identified by the world as a black person. We also have a daughter, that he has adopted as his own, as she was mine from a previous relationship. She's as white as I am but the black man is the only dad she's ever known.

There was a time in our relationship, when I was a young idealist that wanted to be "color-blind", that I did not understand where he was coming from when he spoke about it being important that black children have a vital connection to a black person. I'm older and wiser now plus have the added perspective of having raised a daughter who is black. I still have never experienced what it's like to be a black person in this country but I've encountered a lot more racism than one should ever have to experience and I have a lot more understanding of what it's like than I did years ago. And I'm saying that as a person who is still white and has all of the privileges that comes with it. It absolutely breaks my heart when my baby has to deal with racism. It's not always blatant and hateful, it's so deeply ingrained into our culture that it happens in little ways, all over the place all of the time and she's the one internalizing it. I can only do so much to help her through it, to help her keep her self-worth in tact in the face of such bigotry. I NEED her father and his side of the family to help me with that because they know it personally, as people that have personally experienced it.

This is -not- an argument against adopting children of a different skin color. It's just that any person that is considering adoption, needs to weigh these things heavily. If you are a white person adopting a black child, are you willing and able to maintain vital relationships with black people in your community? Are you surrounded only by people that look like you? You need to expand your circle or else do not do it. It's not as simple as you not being prejudiced or not having any problem with raising a child that looks different than you, that child is going to need to have people in their world that they can identify with.

It can be done. It has been done well. Ideally, race should not factor but let's be realistic here, we do not live in an ideal world.

[Purity4]

Race is irrelevant when it comes to a desire to have children and to adopt. If ethnicity is something a child is interested in, no matter the 'race', the parents have full ability of learning, teaching, and sharing the traditions of that ethnicity to their adopted child. The link you shared from AmRen.com was highly offensive and sick and made me want to claw out my eyes. They're flamingly racist and in denial.

[lauratje86]

I wanted to say that people shouldn't care whether someone is black or not as people are equal. There is not such term as 'superior' and 'inferior' race the same as there are no better/worse cultures. That's the way I think. There is no problem in placing children in families that reflect their ethnicity as long as it's not enforced by the law.

Believe me, no UK adoption agency would dream of saying anything like that! The ideas behind the policy is that being adopted by a family with the same ethnic background is better for the child, not that some races are better than others! All children are considered equal, and good homes are sought for all of them, regardless of race and anything else. It's not enforced by the law, as such, but it is encouraged by most adoption agencies.

AlexandraSpears: I have read about 25% of the stuff on that website you linked, and have yet to find one word that I agree with or one study that actually was carried out in a scientific non-biased way. So yeah, don't agree with you at all on that. There is no credible scientific evidence that non-whites are less intelligent, more prone to violence or any of the other things suggested on that site. And the adoption issues that are being discussed in this thread are nothing to do with differences between whites and non-whites apart from cultural differences between all ethnic backgrounds - the point is not that any of them are better than any others, just that they are different.

[wickedblue]

I felt my blood pressure rise just reading the first few paragraphs of that website. It's highly offensive.

The opinion that white people are better than others is not going to be tolerated here in this very diverse community.

[Lufferkinz]

Hello, I'm from that "thread" the creator infact. I have no mods in my game and was making a story. Not a story to publish but a story in my head. The plot was that one of the men was a female and got pregnant just before he got a sex change and had to give birth to the baby after. It wouldn't make sense if the child wasn't Causican or however you spell it, right?

No I am not racist. I believe in equality. My little cousin gets teased at school for ignorant children for being different skinned and cries to me and her mum. But I think her skin looks like my favorite coffee from Starbucks :P Yummy.

I didn't mean to provoke anyone or make anyone mad or offensed. I just asked a question is all and I got an answer. Plus it's The Sims, lol, if some racist sick beast wants no black people in their game that's ok with me. But in real life if that happened. I'd make sure they'd be bleeding in an alley right now.

And that website made me a little mad as well. People need to accept each other. My friend in fact got reported on a website because some hard-core religious man asked, "Why aren't you in church?" It was Sunday. My friend explained that he was Jewish. Then he got a little report box saying, "You've Been Reported!" The mean guy said, "Have fun being banned, filth." And logged off. How mean is that? :cry:

Like I said everyone needs to accept each other.

EDIT: I forgot to mention, there is one kid at my school who's mom actually ENCOURAGES racism. She says like, "Don't go near that black kid or he'll shoot you," and that they give off deadly diseases, etc. It to be honest makes my blood boil. The kid luckily doesn't follow in her footsteps though. And the school has talked to her about it so hopefully she'll quit it. Everyone is in truth, black. The first humans came from Africa and everyone was black there. We're all the same.

I have come to this conclusion that there are 5 reasons why people are so racist
1. The parents encourage racism
2. Some people of the opposite race has not been all nice to them
3. They follow in their friends' footsteps
4. They are insecure about their own skin color
5. They come from the 1950s where people still judged skin color and don't know how to seperate the past from the present

That's my theory but I guess it can differ

[el_flel]

FWIW I read your thread, Lufferkinz, and thought it was a pretty inoffensive question. I think some people jumped to conclusions tbh.

As for the original question here: I get why they would want to do this - wickedblue's post was very enlightening on the subject and in light of that I'm kind of torn betweeing thinking that 'race-matching' is important to do, and that too much emphasis shouldn't be placed on it. There are so many kids in care, and it's imperative that they find a good home - if race-matching is a part of that then so be it.

And that site is pretty vile. It tries to look as though it's not advocating white-supremacy, but it doesn't do a very good job.

[Lufferkinz]

FWIW I read your thread, Lufferkinz, and thought it was a pretty inoffensive question. I think some people jumped to conclusions tbh.

Yeah. I can't tell the future I didn't know people would at all fight about it. I just asked a question.

[wickedblue]

I do not think there should be that much emphasis placed on it and I certainly hope my post didn't read as though I thought it should be. I just think it's naive to say that race does not matter. Anyone that wants to give a child a good, loving home should be allowed to do so and I do not believe the adoption process should be held up because the parents have a different color of skin. They just need to be prepared for all of those issues that will rise. One way to do that is to have a diverse group of friends that you can count on to be an important model to your child. Really, diversity in social groups should be encouraged anyway, whether you want to adopt or not. I've found that makes people a little less ignorant.

[Lufferkinz]

I am a race realist, and race definitely matters. Race goes beyond skin color. There are physical, emotional, and intellectual differences.

I invite people to check out American Renaissance, a race-realist site: http://www.amren.com/siteinfo/rg-consciousness.html#consciousness

It is not a "white supremacist" site, let me be clear. It does not promote hate towards blacks, Hispanics, etc. I enjoy the site and I have some Amerind ancestry.

Lies. That site is highly racist, it's like it's trying to cover it up but epically failing. It made me want to tear the creators of it apart, limb by limb....

[el_flel]

No, it definitely didn't read like that, don't worry :). I found your post really interesting because you're able to see the situation from both sides, so you've got a perspective that many people probably don't have. Race definitely shouldn't be the be-all-and-end-all but, like you say, it would be naive to think it wouldn't matter at all.

[fakepeeps7]

It is not a "white supremacist" site, let me be clear. It does not promote hate towards blacks, Hispanics, etc. I enjoy the site and I have some Amerind ancestry.

Looks like a white supremacist site to me.

While I do agree that white people should be allowed to celebrate their heritage (something we're often discouraged from doing, since we're supposed to be ashamed of our skin colour because of the wrongs of past generations), I don't think that means that white people are better or more intelligent than anyone else. Heck, if you want to get into the question of IQ, the Ashkenazi Jews have the highest average IQ. I'll bet neo-Nazis love that. :rolleyes:

As for adoption, if you adopt a child from another race or culture, it may be more of a challenge. But I don't think anybody should be barred from doing so simply because the kid has a different skin colour than the adoptive parents. Of course, I think parents should have a say, too, since they might not be up to the challenge of teaching their child about their heritage. Or imagine if you just had to take what you were given and a white-supremacist couple ended up with a black child! Scary thought.

If people are willing to adopt and they don't care what colour the kid's skin is, the government/adoption agencies shouldn't care, either. There simply aren't enough adoptive parents from minority groups to match everyone up by skin colour.

[Oaktree]

I think that people should be able to adopt in whatever manner they prefer. If they prefer to adopt a child of their own skin tone, they should be able to. Adoption agencies should try to do what they can to make the adopters happy, as happy parents are more likely to have happy children. I don't think that adoption agencies should restrict people from adopting a child of a different skin tone. Some people genuinely are color-blind and would be happy simply to have a child to raise as their own. Add in the practical matter that the overwhelming majority of children up for adoption in the US are minorities and it only makes sense to allow people to adopt outside of their own race.

As to the cultural differences between races, not everyone fits into the cultures anyway, so I don't see why it's such a big deal that an adopted child might not fit into that culture. I think the idea of a racial culture is a bit misleading in that regard, in that not everyone of that race will have that culture. Maybe a rise in people adopting children outside of their own race will improve race relations. People will gravitate more towards a shared, diverse culture and will see those of other races as similar to themselves.

[lauratje86]

Wojtek: I think I was responding generally even though I quoted your post, so not everything I said makes sense as a response to your post! :-) I guess that the UK adoption agencies think that the studies that suggest that children will be less likely to setlle into a family of different ethnicity to them makes it worthwhile trying to match adopters and adoptees ethnicities, but yeah, there's been a lot of critisism about the policy because it means that children of ethnic minorities generally wait longer to be adopted. The UK is pretty much tackling that by trying to increase the number of suitable ethnic minority adopters, but I don't think they'll be completely successful and will probably have to relax the policy at some point.

Every country has racists, I reckon. Doesn't mean the society in general has problems with race, or that everyone agrees with the racists!

Oaktree: I don't know much about America, but here in the UK a lot of kids up for adoption are white. And yes, maybe a rise in multiracial adoptions would improve race relations, but I guess adoption agencies can't think like that as their primary/only responsibility is to the child in their care, and if studies show that that child would likely be happier in a same-ethnicity household then that is where they would seek to place them, regardless of the benefits that multiracial adoption may have for the world as a whole. And I guess there's a difference to not fitting into the culture you're raised in and not having the chance to fit into the culture that you (might) regard as "yours". Yeah, happy adoptive parents is good, but things that make them happy aren't necessarily what's best for the child.

On the whole, I think that wickedblue's post #17 pretty much sums up my opinion on the matter......

[Oaktree]

I suppose I didn't really consider the opinion of the child on the race of the parents. I don't generally think of children, at least young ones, as having a bias. I didn't really even consciously notice skin tone, unless the topic was brought up, until I was in middle school, so I'm thinking from my own experience. I'll go along with the idea that some children may have a bias, in which case, what matters is whether the ideals of the parent and the child match up. I would hope that a potential adoptive parent would spend time with the child before adopting him/her, so hopefully they would have some idea of whether they get along and whether their ideals match.

[Phoeberg]

I don't think race should matter when it comes to adoption. If there were a black couple willing to adopt a child but there were no black children up for adoption why should they be denied the chance to become parents and why should any potential adopted children be denied the chance to have a loving family instead of facing a childhood in care just because they weren't the right ethnicity? I read an article in a newspaper about a month ago about a white couple who wanted to adopt but were rejected because there were no white children available for adoption in their area and they were told they couldn't adopt an asian or black child despite there being many who needed homes.

While I suppose I can see why some people might think that it would be better to match children and potential parents by skin color/ethnicity, ultimately it shouldn't deny a child the chance of a home. If a child is in a stable, loving home then they and their adoptive parents should be able to deal with any issue that might arise from different skin colors. There are probably hundreds of thousands of children who have a 'parent' of a different race or color to them, for instance a step-child, or a child adopted from another country such as China where they don't discriminate based on ethnicity, or a child from parents of different races. There was even a black couple who had a blonde haired blue eyed daughter a few months ago in the newspaper, and I read about a couple who had had twin girls of which one was blonde and fair skinned and the other was black with dark hair.

[wickedblue]

I think that people should be able to adopt in whatever manner they prefer. If they prefer to adopt a child of their own skin tone, they should be able to. Adoption agencies should try to do what they can to make the adopters happy, as happy parents are more likely to have happy children. I don't think that adoption agencies should restrict people from adopting a child of a different skin tone. Some people genuinely are color-blind and would be happy simply to have a child to raise as their own. Add in the practical matter that the overwhelming majority of children up for adoption in the US are minorities and it only makes sense to allow people to adopt outside of their own race.

As to the cultural differences between races, not everyone fits into the cultures anyway, so I don't see why it's such a big deal that an adopted child might not fit into that culture. I think the idea of a racial culture is a bit misleading in that regard, in that not everyone of that race will have that culture. Maybe a rise in people adopting children outside of their own race will improve race relations. People will gravitate more towards a shared, diverse culture and will see those of other races as similar to themselves.

There is no such thing as color blind. I know their heart is in the right place when I hear that but it's naive and also can be highly offensive to someone who is not white. It's okay to see them as black people, what's not okay is judging their character by their skin color.

Being color-blind is being blind to their experience as a person that is not white in a white dominated world.

[iCad]

Race is a descriptive but ultimately meaningless construct. We are all Homo sapiens. Some of us simply have certain physical specializations that help us to survive/thrive in certain specific environments. Nothing more.

Culture, on the other hand, is an entirely different thing and is sometimes (but doesn't necessarily have to be) tied to race. For instance, I know black people who are very much into incorporating African culture into their life and consciousness, as they see it as their heritage, their culture, even if they've never stepped foot into any part of Africa. I also know black people who couldn't care less about "being African" and even a few who strongly object to the label "African-American" because they see themselves as simply American. I know black people who recognize that American Blacks certainly have a culture, but that that culture is no more African than is, say, Swedish culture. So, it depends.

Now, should culture be preserved in adoptions, so that a child that "belongs" to a certain culture can only be adopted by members of that culture? I don't think that's especially wise, personally. Culture is a learned thing, for one thing, not something in-born, so if one is adopting an infant, one is adopting a blank slate that will become a part of the culture that he/she is raised in, regardless of the infant's skin color. Things might or might not be different if the child is older, depending on what culture he/she was previously raised in. Also, common wisdom has it that by not "seeing color" we somehow become better and more tolerant people. Yet we still "see culture" very strongly, and at least here in America we even expressly encourage hanging on to culture. It is this hanging on, I think, that's behind placing adoptive children with parents of the same race, and I don't think this is always a good thing. It's not that I think culture is a bad thing, in general. I think it's good to know about our heritage and where we've come from. It's just that I think that, when obsessively clung to in an increasingly global society, it's divisive, by its very nature. Just like nationalism, which is also tied to culture.

I've always thought it very ironic how much we Americans, in particular, cling to the cultures of our forebears. We call ourselves "African-American," "Irish-American," "Polish-American," "Chinese-American," "Italian-American," etc. etc. etc. I call myself "American," personally, for all that my ancestors were mostly Welsh with a few stray Scots thrown into the mix. America in it's ideal state is supposed to be a "melting pot," after all, where people from different cultures come together in equality to make a new culture. But like one of my elementary-school teachers said when teaching us about this stuff, it's really just a big salad bowl. And with this kind of children-must-be-adopted-by-people-of-matching-race thing, we only make it more salad-y and less melt-y. And I just don't think that's really a good thing.

[lauratje86]

I definitely see your point, iCad, and I agree with most of what you're saying. The thing is, though, that as a world (bunch of nations?) we do put a high value on culture and cultural heritage. Now, that's not necessarily a good thing, if we didn't we'd probably have a much more integrated society. But at the moment at least we do. I guess I'd rather try to find a way to change this before placing children into families that didn't necessarily reflect their ethnic background rather than making placing children into families that didn't necessarily reflect their ethnic background part of the process. Because, you know during "the process" of changing things there is often a struggle, and some people suffer before the ultimately positive change is brought about. It'd be nice if we adults could sort things out so that anyone could adopt any child (anyone ethnicity/culturewise, I mean, not just anyone at all) without there being potential negative consequences for the child. Now maybe this is impossible, in which case someday someone will have to involve adopted children in the process, but I hope it can be done!

I suppose, borrowing your analogy, melting the salad is necessary, but some of the salad will resist being melted and will object to the melting process, and the melty bits may suffer as a consequence. I don't want the initial melty bits to be adopted children, if it can be avoided, because I think they can have enough problems as it is without being disapproved of for their meltiness as well. Yes, I butchered that analogy, but I know what I mean! :-D

As an aside, in the UK cultural heritage tends to be simpler than in the US, I think, because comparitively few people care about their ancestors back more than a generation or three. I did notice in America that people place a lot more value on where their ancestors were from, and talked about it more. At least a dozen people told me about the ancestors when I went to a friend's wedding reception in Utah, and nobody in England has ever done that! Most of the second/third generation immigrants that I've met in the UK either regard themselves as still completely their original nationality/culture or as completely British. (Or maybe more accurately as English/Welsh/Scottish/Northern Irish depending on where they live - that divide is still going strong!) Very few (of the limited number I've met and talked to about this, I have no stats to back this up) regard themselves as for example Pakistani-British or Indian-British or Chinese-British or whatever.

[AlexandraSpears]

I felt my blood pressure rise just reading the first few paragraphs of that website. It's highly offensive.

The opinion that white people are better than others is not going to be tolerated here in this very diverse community.

Did you get to the part where it says that Asians have generally higher intelligence than whites?

I don't think it's offensive at all.

Tell me something: How is it that Iceland enjoys a high standard of living and an extremely high literacy rate despite living on an island that has virtually nothing, while African nations do poorly, despite being on land with tons of natural resources?

Why is it that crime is sky-high in majority-black cities? Don't tell me poverty, because West Virginia is among the poorest states, yet it has a very low crime rate--and it's 95% white.

We are not all equal. This idea of "everyone's equal" does everyone a disservice. You can't expect a toddler, for example, to go to college and write a thesis on something.

You should also read the article where the author visited Japan. After having read that, I was thinking, boy, I'd love to live there! They'd probably turn me down, though, because I'm white--and that's their right--their sandbox, their rules.

It is not hate to point out differences like this. I think people should be encouraged to do the best they can with what they have, rather than demand special privileges and handouts. I know people have been brainwashed big-time since the 1960s.

The thing is, diversity is divisive.

Now getting back to the original subject: Children do better when adopted by parents of the same race/culture. Otherwise you are going to have problems later on.

http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2010/02/addressing_inte.php

Quote from that article: "Kathy Searle and her husband, who are white, have raised six black and two Colombian children, along with three biological children. Searle, who directs programs for the Adoption Exchange, says ignoring racial difference is a mistake. Only white people have the luxury of thinking you can be color-blind."

[simbalena]

They'd probably turn me down, though, because I'm white--and that's their right--their sandbox, their rules.


So Japan has a no white people policy now?

Now getting back to the original subject: Children do better when adopted by parents of the same race/culture. Otherwise you are going to have problems later on.

That statement is false as there are lots of people who were raised by parents of a different culture and did not "have problems later on".

http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2010/02/addressing_inte.php


How can we take an article full of {snip}'s as evidence of anything? It is so obviously trying to manipulate the reader that it's pointless to read it.

[AlexandraSpears]

So Japan has a no white people policy now?



That statement is false as there are lots of people who were raised by parents of a different culture and did not "have problems later on".



How can we take an article full of {snip}'s as evidence of anything? It is so obviously trying to manipulate the reader that it's pointless to read it.

They do link back to the original article, click on the title. I think it has to do with copyright issues.


Japan has a strict immigration policy. Want to read about it?

http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2008/01/in_praise_of_ho.php

[simbalena]

I'm not reading anything else on that racist site!

The strict Japanese immigration policy means you can't live there because you're not Japanese, not because your white!

[BR_FL]

AlexandraSpears, a lot of what you and what that site claims to be true is so full of lurking variables that even a basic statistics student could point out. What you seem to be disregarding is the various reasons as to why certain geographical areas play into any sort economical, educational, or scientific development.

[nea200pl]

Race is a descriptive but ultimately meaningless construct. We are all Homo sapiens. Some of us simply have certain physical specializations that help us to survive/thrive in certain specific environments. Nothing more....

Very true. I agree with your post iCad.

I think that people put too much pressure on culture or race. For me being multicultural is wonderful thing as you have opportunity to learn new things.

I will have child soon and it's going to be mixed race. Hypothetically speaking, if something happens to my husband and I and we had no family to look after the child I personally would not care what ethnic background/culture adopts him/her as long as child is going to be loved, well cared for and provided. I think that is most important and goes for every child regardless.

When it comes to argument about people of different cultures being adopted into not their own and feeling like outsiders/having problems in future - that is not true. One example, estate where I live has a family like that. I don't know for sure if this woman is foster carer or adopter but she is black, has her own daughter and cares for white child, girl approx. 8 years old. I cannot see this child feeling like outsider in any way. She is very happy and you can see they love her and care for her as any parent should. Loving a child goes beyond ethnic background/culture.

[AlexandraSpears]

One thing I would like to question: How come people who claim to champion diversity and open-mindedness suddenly get hostile and closed-minded when encountering someone who doesn't think like they do? "We want diversity--except when your opinion differs." Huh?

@simbalena: Either I'm not Japanese or I'm white. Which is it? LOL

Racism is not inherently hateful. I simply prefer my own race. Why is it that you have a Black Caucus here in the states, you have La Raza and all these other groups...but whites can't have pride in their own race? Isn't that a bit hypocritical? Being happy to be white does NOT mean you hate other races! (For the record I do have a touch of Amerind, but no more than, say, 3%.)

Race is not a social construct. As was proven (if anyone cares to get past their bias and actually READ some articles), there are physical, emotional, and intellectual differences. And those differences are why it's best that children are adopted by parents of similar race/culture. That's basically what it boils down to.

Be open-minded. Read even opposing viewpoints and decide.

[BR_FL]

As was proven (if anyone cares to get past their bias and actually READ some articles), there are physical, emotional, and intellectual differences. And those differences are why it's best that children are adopted by parents of similar race/culture. That's basically what it boils down to.

As I pointed out, your sources are hardly unbiased. They are riddled with underlying variables that affect data, which can then be manipulated however it needs be. I go to a college preparatory high school, and it's not so much the white kids with 4.5 and 4.8 GPAs. It's the Filipinos, African Americans, and other minorities.

Intelligence is not reflective of race. It's reflective of environment. That is the same reason why I do not find it detrimental for a child of a specific race to be adopted by someone of another.

[jooxis]

I think there's substantial research to support both sides of the "racial differences" and someone saying "it's 100% proven to be one way or the other" just means you are dismissing anything that suggests otherwise because of what you want to believe. There's biased sources on both sides.

But perhaps the more important issue would be - does all this really matter that much? Shouldn't individuals be valued as indiviudals and not have their "race" be brought into the equation?

[el_flel]

One thing I would like to question: How come people who claim to champion diversity and open-mindedness suddenly get hostile and closed-minded when encountering someone who doesn't think like they do? "We want diversity--except when your opinion differs." Huh?People don't get hostile just because someone has a different opinion. They get hostile because someone has an offensive or prejudiced opinion. There is a difference. It's often the case (this isn't aimed at anyone here) that people will come out with something really offensive and then try and justify it by saying, "it's just my opinion! You can't get upset by that!". People have a right to that opinion but if they're going to voice it they shouldn't be surprised when people get annoyed/upset and challenge it.
I simply prefer my own race.Why?

I've always thought it very ironic how much we Americans, in particular, cling to the cultures of our forebears. <snip> America in it's ideal state is supposed to be a "melting pot," after all, where people from different cultures come together in equality to make a new culture.I've noticed this difference too. I always figured Americans care more because of the whole 'melting-pot' thing - the country as we know it is made up of people from all over the world. In the UK I think the people who put emphasis on their heritage are those who are fairly new to the country (by new I mean the family have been here for only a couple of generations). Your ancestory isn't necessarily your nationality so it seems weird to me to say you're Irish or German (e.g.) when you've lived in America all your life, just because you have people of those nationalities in your bloodline.

[treegirl17]

As a black person and I would like to adopt but for the record if I get a baby from China, Africa, or one from the states who is blond hair and blue eyes - they will be raised the way I see fit. Meaning the way I would raise my natural born children. My boyfriend is Puerto Rican and speaks Spanish. Its a good chance any child that comes into my family will be raised on his culture, yes he does eat Rice & Beans!

What do you expect a black person can't raise a kid from a different race? So, Sandra Bullock can't raise that very handsome baby? Its probably a million other people who are like me and who aren't the stereotypical black woman. I am 20 and don't have multiple baby daddies, I have only been with 2 guys since sex at 18. I am in college and probably will end up a teacher. I work at a mall and live in South Jersey!

So, why would a white baby have a better "including" feeling just because that family who adopt them is white? Everyone is black in my family and I feel left out because I have different views on life! From not wanting to be a CNA or LPN or not being 100% religious! Its dumb. The kid will be loved, have a home, and so what if they look adopted they will no what daddy and mommy doesn't really look like them and a cousin might spill the beans!

[wickedblue]

One thing I would like to question: How come people who claim to champion diversity and open-mindedness suddenly get hostile and closed-minded when encountering someone who doesn't think like they do? "We want diversity--except when your opinion differs." Huh?

That is such a blissfully ignorant statement. You are entitled to your opinion but don't expect that you can go around making prejudiced statements and not get told about yourself. It doesn't work that way. Being open-minded does not mean tolerating hate. In fact, it's exactly the opposite of that.


Racism is not inherently hateful. I simply prefer my own race. Why is it that you have a Black Caucus here in the states, you have La Raza and all these other groups...but whites can't have pride in their own race? Isn't that a bit hypocritical? Being happy to be white does NOT mean you hate other races!

There's a huge difference in being proud of who you are and thinking you are better than others because of it. Not that you'd even begin to understand it but I'll go ahead and point out the flaw in your argument here: we live in a world dominated by white people and white culture so celebrating whiteness is already a part of our world. It's the groups that are outside of white culture that have to stake a claim for themselves.

(For the record I do have a touch of Amerind, but no more than, say, 3%.)

What exactly is the point in this?

Race is not a social construct. As was proven (if anyone cares to get past their bias and actually READ some articles), there are physical, emotional, and intellectual differences.

Nothing in that vile website proves a damn thing. They are using faulty and biased "science" to "prove" something that they already believed. That is not science.

Be open-minded. Read even opposing viewpoints and decide.
Take your own advice.

[HystericalParoxysm]

Be nice, dammit!

Remember to be kind, courteous, and respectful toward your fellow debaters, no matter what their opinion, even if you think they're an idiot. If you can't be nice, then don't post.

[lauratje86]

I've actually become pretty interested in this topic now. As I am a student, I have access to lots of peer-reviewed journals, and have read about half a dozen articles about adoption and ethnicity. All these articles come from reputable peer-reviewed journals, though some do have methodological issues, such as small sample sizes and uncontrolled variables. Unfortunately I can't provide links, as they are all subscription-only from a scientific database so unless you're a student/lecturer at a university that subscribes to them or have a subscription of your own you wouldn't be able to read them.... (if you are/do and are interested, PM me and ask and I'll PM you the details)

But guess what? They don't all reach the same conclusions! Now there's a surprise.... If I take all the articles together, they suggest that being adopted into a family with a different ethnic background can (that's can, as in possibly, not will, as in definitely) lead to some children feeling like outsiders, or like they haven't had the chance to experience "their culture" and that that's caused them upset. Other children won't experience those feelings at all, and will be quite happy regardless. So yeah, anecdotes of kids fitting in to adopted families of different ethnicities? It happens! Children who feel like outsiders and are unhappy in an adopted family of different ethnicities? It happens! For me, large scale scientific studies (if conducted properly) will always win out as evidence for something compared to people's anecdotes. Not that I don't believe your anecdotes, I'm sure they're true, but anecdotal evidence is, well, anecdotal....

So as far as the UK policy is concerned, I guess they're erring on the side of caution. Someday someone sat down and thought: "Well, some kids who are placed into adopted families with a different ethnicity may have problems because of it, and as that situation can be avoided comparatively easily, we'll implement that into our adoption policy so that that situation won't occur and kids will never suffer because of it.". Well intentioned, I'm sure, but does have the unfortunate downside that children from some ethnic backgrounds from which there are fewer adoptive parents suffer because it takes longer for them to be placed with a family.

My personal opinion? I think it should be down to the potential adoptive parents choice, in consultation with the child if he/she's old enough to have an opinion, and preferably also with people who have experienced one of the options themselves (as an adoptive parent or child, mulitethnic adoption or not) to help the adoptive parents understand the potential issues/benefits/disadvantages/advantages etc. Support should be provided to help the child experience all cultures and ethnicities if they want to - the one they would've experienced if raised by their biological parents/mother, the one their adoptive family is a part of, and as many others as possible! If the adoptive parents don't feel like they'd be up to the added challenges in raising a child of a different ethnic background (for example some of the points that wickedblue made) then let them adopt a child of the same ethnicity of them. If they're up to the challenge, and the adoption agency thinks that they will be able to achieve their aim, let them adopt any child who needs a home. I think that sooner or later the UK guidelines will change to reflect this - I have no evidence for this, it just strikes me as the likely way for things to go.

[Purity4]

I
My personal opinion? I think it should be down to the potential adoptive parents choice, in consultation with the child if he/she's old enough to have an opinion, and preferably also with people who have experienced one of the options themselves (as an adoptive parent or child, mulitethnic adoption or not) to help the adoptive parents understand the potential issues/benefits/disadvantages/advantages etc. Support should be provided to help the child experience all cultures and ethnicities if they want to - the one they would've experienced if raised by their biological parents/mother, the one their adoptive family is a part of, and as many others as possible! If the adoptive parents don't feel like they'd be up to the added challenges in raising a child of a different ethnic background (for example some of the points that wickedblue made) then let them adopt a child of the same ethnicity of them. If they're up to the challenge, and the adoption agency thinks that they will be able to achieve their aim, let them adopt any child who needs a home.

I agree that all of this would be great if implemented.

[fakepeeps7]

I've noticed this difference too. I always figured Americans care more because of the whole 'melting-pot' thing - the country as we know it is made up of people from all over the world. In the UK I think the people who put emphasis on their heritage are those who are fairly new to the country (by new I mean the family have been here for only a couple of generations). Your ancestory isn't necessarily your nationality so it seems weird to me to say you're Irish or German (e.g.) when you've lived in America all your life, just because you have people of those nationalities in your bloodline.

That's an interesting point. Canada sounds much like the UK, then (but we're not really a "melting pot"... we prefer the term "cultural mosaic"). Sure, it causes culture clashes from time to time, but it's also cool to have distinct cultures existing in relative harmony. From what I've seen, even the visible minorities refer to themselves as simply "Canadian" (even though their country of origin is sometimes pretty obvious). Even though it's technically correct, I've never referred to myself as English-Canadian or Scottish-Canadian; that would just be weird.

There are a lot of kids who've been adopted by white parents from places like China and Haiti. The nice thing about living in a cultural mosaic means that it'll be easier to expose those children to aspects of their birth culture, since there are thriving Chinese and Haitian communities here that haven't been completely assimilated.

[simneesee]

Tell me something: How is it that Iceland enjoys a high standard of living and an extremely high literacy rate despite living on an island that has virtually nothing, while African nations do poorly, despite being on land with tons of natural resources? Why is it that crime is sky-high in majority-black cities? Don't tell me poverty, because West Virginia is among the poorest states, yet it has a very low crime rate--and it's 95% white. We are not all equal. This idea of "everyone's equal" does everyone a disservice. You can't expect a toddler, for example, to go to college and write a thesis on something. The thing is, diversity is divisive.
Now getting back to the original subject: Children do better when adopted by parents of the same race/culture. Otherwise you are going to have problems later on.


That site quite literally has me shaking with anger and indignation. I refuse to read any further. Also to address your "statistics," correlation does not equal causation. This means that there are many other variables as to why "crime is sky-high in majority-black cities." And then you follow up with "we are not all equal." Really? REALLY? So are you saying that white people are superior? Please clarify, because I would hate to assume anything.
Back on topic, I think children do best in a loving, supportive, safe home, period. I do not think the law should enforce a family to adopt in/out of their own race.

[longears15]

People (me including) tend to use the terms 'race' and 'ethnicity' interchangeably. Is it a mistake? I'm not sure what the definitions are, but personally I would use race to define 'biological heritage'- traits like skin colour, facial structure, etc., and ethnicity as more of an umbrella term. One that describes not only your race, but cultural identity, language, religion, other traditions and so forth.

I'm a latecomer to the topic... I believe it's wrong that couples should be forced to adopt a child of their own racial background, but I can see some merits in encouraging it. I know a couple of people who were adopted in cultures foreign to their own. Although they're relatively happy and well adjusted people, they have a deep regret at having lost their culture and language.

The flipside of course is that if there is a stable family situation available, that is far and away preferable to a child being in care, and I think that's what wins out for me.

[pinketamine]

I find it really interesting how racist crap can be defined as "racial realism". I'll something from the website AlexandraSpears provided. It is a quote where I can notice that the person who wrote it is trying to hide his/her intolerance with a bit of politically correct language.
If whites permit themselves to become a minority population, they will lose their civilization, their heritage, and even their existence as a distinct people.


Tell me something: How is it that Iceland enjoys a high standard of living and an extremely high literacy rate despite living on an island that has virtually nothing, while African nations do poorly, despite being on land with tons of natural resources?

Maybe I'm the only person in the world thinking like this, but haven't you thought that the poverty in some countries might be caused by the fact that many of the countries have been being used as a material source for the European/occidental countries until not so long ago?

Anyway and back on topic, if I would want to adopt at some point of my life, I'd personally don't care about the race of the child. Most people give arguments like "but if you adopt a black child being both parents white, the kid will suffer discrimination from kids at school because kids are cruel". It is the same argument people use for same sex marriage and, as in this case, children hate what you teach them to hate.

[Wild Missingno]

If the prospective parents from a different culture, then it is important for said parents to understand said culture, in order to understand how the culture influenced the child in question and to dispel any dangerous assumptions the parents may hold about that culture. However, that isn't strictly a race issue. It applies just as much to a white American family adopting from Russia as it does to the same family adopting from China.

Still, there are some racial issues to keep in mind. For starters, most people that aren't either black or decent hairdressers are probably not going to know how to style a black child's hair, and relaxer is not something that is a good idea to apply on a child below a certain age. Black hair is kind of an issue, and for good reason. For instance, how many hairs are on this site? Good, now how many of those have that afro-texture suitable for black sims?

And that's just hair. There are other racial issues to keep in mind, like systematic racism (I could write more about that, but I won't).

And I'm probably pissing on a corpse here, but piss away I shall:
I am a race realist, and race definitely matters. Race goes beyond skin color. There are physical, emotional, and intellectual differences.

I invite people to check out American Renaissance, a race-realist site: http://www.amren.com/siteinfo/rg-consciousness.html#consciousness

It is not a "white supremacist" site, let me be clear. It does not promote hate towards blacks, Hispanics, etc. I enjoy the site and I have some Amerind ancestry. (And this is aimed at all of AlexandraSpears' posts here, not just this one.)

Dear lord, is the "I have American Indian ancestry" the new "I have black friends"? Just because your great-great-great-grandmother was Native American does not exempt you from either being racist or from benefiting from white privilege (http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:yFzbKqzrK4kJ:www.nymbp.org/reference/WhitePrivilege.pdf+white+privilege+unpacking+the+invisible+knapsack&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESh2RVKxYwj1KmGqz-bqNKEWEi33Ga5SiytYMQHV054Q1YFX2B6mNQ-WisRPamofTY_foELtrWbqz7DL-CTGfFfMfwBR2K9IzApd0kZV_Ur2HQsCIkcIF3OVUzeVHAEVN_Q8WRBG&sig=AHIEtbRZJyPPeg38W3RMCciarmUSg607jg). And if you have to say something is not racist, it is racist.

Why might predominantly black areas have higher crime rates? Well, one major factor is that if you're black, especially a black man, you're going to have a harder time getting hired. Just look at page 22 of this study. (http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:YKrJ0nP7D0kJ:www.northwestern.edu/ipr/publications/papers/2003/pagerajs.pdf+the+mark+of+a+criminal+record+devah+pager&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESjIoIdJyBoM2gC25qIPsiGwK_AVT7c9Th6jJR-rb2tbm2vZBeY6p0ShrbvKvYBpG3zf8QR1HsO8LJJAjbhPrsMLzHJHlP5ZpoRG0kf1XBpQa8ffwyvSVHhMDBPV6jrZspBIk2VL&sig=AHIEtbTN-F1l4heLFR50JEiLHNb0Bj286w) Note that the interview callback rate for black men without a criminal record is lower than the rate for white men with a criminal record. Now how are you going to support yourself or a family without a legit job? Crime, of course! And that's not even accounting for racial profiling on the part of police, which would lead to more black people getting arrested, even though white people are the majority of the criminals.

As for things like IQ, google stereotype threat. There's no real gap between the IQs of white people and black people when the test isn't presented as an intelligence test. Also, poorer people (black people are more likely to be poor) tend to do worse than richer people on IQ tests. After all, rich people can just stick their kids in private classes that teach them how to do well on those types of tests. And all of that is leaving out issues with IQ in general.

See, I came up with two perfectly reasonable explanations without resorting to racism. I'm a first-semester college freshman. I am not taking any type of statistics class, nor am I any type of sociology major. I'm not even in a college known for its liberal arts programs. In other words, I have no specialized knowledge that I wouldn't get from just being a college student in general.

Oh, and white people already express their pride quite well. Pick up a magazine in the checkout line, and white people will be on the cover. Turn your TV to a random channel, and you'll probably see a show starring white people. Buy some makeup, and it'll probably be intended for people with lighter skin (actually, the same could be said for a lot of sim makeup here). Pick a random haircut at a hairdresser's, and it probably won't be a haircut made to work with afro-texture hair.

I'm saying all of this as a glow-in-the-dark white person, too. Of course, there are more races than just black and white, but for the sake of Race 101, this will do.

[wickedblue]

I believe that race is just like clothes - it doesn't matter. You can have a black, arab, hispanic child if you want to have a... more exotic family, or if you think that black children are adorable (like me). I wouldn't adopt if I can have children myself, but if I can't, adoption would be my first choice.

:blink: There's a whole lot more to having children than how adorable they are. They aren't accessories.

[Wild Missingno]

:blink: There's a whole lot more to having children than how adorable they are. They aren't accessories. Agreed, and in any case, I don't see anything exotic about normal human variation. Show me somebody with lime green skin, natural red eyes, and natural bright blue hair, and then we'll talk exotic. Besides, not everybody who reads the board is white.

[Wild Missingno]

I'm white, too. I still don't see anything exotic about people who aren't white. Especially not when I attend college in a town where 32% of the population is black.

[jooxis]

I'm white, too. I still don't see anything exotic about people who aren't white. Especially not when I attend college in a town where 32% of the population is black.

Well, there's your answer right there.

I live in a country where there are no black people, as in most people have never seen one except on TV. So of course people here would consider them "exotic" - what, is that offensive now?

You seem to be under the impression that "exotic" means "not normal" (it doesn't).

[pinketamine]

Could you tell your sources for saying that? Because I have never heard of that "blacks only" bars.

[wickedblue]

Totally agree with you there, jooxis. I have the impression sometimes that black people have too many complains to make. For example, a white man would NEVER be allowed to live in a black neighborhood, while black roam freely among white. There are black only bars, where again white aren't allowed.
They talk with each other with "nigger" and if we call them like that, they get mad and start beating us up? Aren't THEY the racists in these situations??
I want to be precise, I am not racist, because I have a bunch of black friends and even an Indian one. And I still consider them exotic, because... well, because they are different to me.


First of all, the old standby "I have black friends" as some sort of infallible proof that you are not racist immediately before or after making blindingly racist comments does not actually take the racism out of your statements.

You know what I find funny - and by funny I mean fucking terrible - about that statement? I grew up in a very racist home, my father was the biggest white-robe wearing bigot I've ever had the misfortune of meeting and he had a few black friends.

Are you seriously complaining that you can't call someone a nigger? REALLY? 'Cause that word is loaded with so much hatred. It's years of slavery and abuse at the hand of white people all tied up in a horrible little word. If a black person wants to call his friend nigger, 'cause it's their way of trying to reclaim a word that was used to dehumanize them, to keep them in their place for centuries, well then that is his business. Personally, I still don't think it should be used at all but it's not really my damn business with my white skin and white privilege to tell a black person he shouldn't use that word.

White privilege. You should really look that up because you got a metric fuckton of it in that comment of yours I quoted.

There's no offense in the word exotic but the point I was making is that you spoke of children as if it would be cool to have one of each color like they are a pair of shoes. And get yourself a coordinating handbag too!

Though, I do find myself enthusiastically agreeing with Wild Missingno that there's nothing exotic about human variation.

[wickedblue]

Calling someone a nigger when you know damn well how that word was use to strip them of their humanity for centuries IS offensive. Are you seriously trying to unwrite history here?

[fakepeeps7]

"Blacks only" bars are probably in practice only... and not actually in law. (What I mean is that they're probably in areas where there simply aren't many white people, so all the patrons are black.) I don't think you can legally stop a person from entering any sort of business based solely on their skin colour. Besides... where would you draw the line? Does Obama get in because he's half black... or does he get barred because he's half white?

Don't believe everything you see in the movies, TheCreeper. There is such a thing as fiction.

[HystericalParoxysm]

The topic of this thread is adopting children of a same/different race.

Please stay on-topic. Thanks.

[Wild Missingno]

I'll just link to Resist Racism's Racism 101 page (http://resistracism.wordpress.com/racism-101/) and Derailing for Dummies (http://www.derailingfordummies.com/) and leave it at that. I'm getting bored of discussing 101 stuff ad nausem.

Incidentally, this thread is a perfect example of why potential adoptive parents need to be aware of racism-related issues before adopting a child from a different race. Race is a social construct, but it's a social construct that matters. Ideally, it wouldn't matter, but this is not an ideal world. I'm not saying to never adopt from a different race, but there is a difference between adopting from the same race and adopting from a different race.

[Lily__XD]

Meanwhile back on topic...

I think that whether a child’s ethnicity is similar to that of the parents is a personal choice for the parents. Whether they are prepared to take a child of a different race is up to them. Some adoptive parents prefer to pretend that the child is there's (I know it technically is, but I couldn’t think of a better way of putting it - but you know, the parents wouldn’t tell them of their true origins) and this would be hard to do if the child was a different race.

One problem when considering adopting a child of a different race, is how the area you live in would affect the child’s well-being depending on skin colour. For instance, I live in North-East England, in the middle of the countryside. In total there are 4 coloured people at my school (not even black, 2 are from New Zealand, brother and sister, and 2 from China, again brother and sister) and while it’s not a big problem, because it’s a fairly nice area, one girl asked the girl from New Zealand once why she was a vegetarian, and felt the need to add – “is it some paki religion or something?” Of course the girl was very offended and as we were quite young she burst out crying. Now that were all older, were above all that but it doesn’t mean that something like that wouldn’t happen to an adopted child – would you really want that for your child?

Another and more violent way of putting this is, if you lived in Deep South America where they still lynch back people, and you were black… would you even consider adopting a white child?

[fakepeeps7]

Now that were all older, were above all that but it doesn’t mean that something like that wouldn’t happen to an adopted child – would you really want that for your child?

Stupid, ignorant people are everywhere. That's not a very good reason not to adopt a child with a different skin colour. It's more of an argument against moving to an area with lots of closed-minded bigots. :rolleyes:

[mangaroo]

if you lived in Deep South America where they still lynch back people

No, they don't. At least, hate crimes against blacks resulting in white-on-black murder are no more common in the south than they are anywhere else in the U.S. with a large mixed-race population. I can't speak to what year it is in England, but it's not 1964 in Mississippi.

Sorry for the interruption. Back to mixed-race adoption.

[jooxis]

If adopting a child of a different skin color would put the child's safety at risk, I'd first and foremost consider moving to a nicer community.

[smorbie1]

Could you tell your sources for saying that? Because I have never heard of that "blacks only" bars.
There are a lot where I live. There are even small communities around here where whites and blacks buy gas at different gas stations. It's stupid. BTW, I'm a white person living in a majority black apartment complex. Doesn't bother me at all, but sometimes I do get looked at kind of funny. Not my problem.

As for adoption. In the game, my sim families are all multicultural, black, white, whatever. I don't care. in RL I don't care either, but I do believe a child should learn about his own, specific cultural heritage, as well as that of his adoptive parents.

We are all different and beautiful as God made us. It's not wrong to notice and celebrate those differences, as long as we don't use them to separate us. We're all just people, for crying out loud.

And, yes I've noticed that there aren't a lot of sims hairstyles specifically for African hair. I would like to see more.

[pinketamine]

There are a lot where I live. There are even small communities around here where whites and blacks buy gas at different gas stations. It's stupid. BTW, I'm a white person living in a majority black apartment complex. Doesn't bother me at all, but sometimes I do get looked at kind of funny. Not my problem.

As for adoption. In the game, my sim families are all multicultural, black, white, whatever. I don't care. in RL I don't care either, but I do believe a child should learn about his own, specific cultural heritage, as well as that of his adoptive parents.

We are all different and beautiful as God made us. It's not wrong to notice and celebrate those differences, as long as we don't use them to separate us. We're all just people, for crying out loud.

And, yes I've noticed that there aren't a lot of sims hairstyles specifically for African hair. I would like to see more.

They might be black only bars in the practice, but not legally, which is what I wanted to point. It is not they they don't allow white people to enter, but that the majority of people living there is black.

[smorbie1]

They might be black only bars in the practice, but not legally, which is what I wanted to point. It is not they they don't allow white people to enter, but that the majority of people living there is black.

You're right. It's more implied. I must say, though, that whenever I try to go into one of the "black" gas stations, I'm not treated all that well. I just pretend not to notice. I can't let racism from whites, blacks, or purples, color my opinion. People are just people.

Also, I almost had a seizure reading that people believe there are still lynchings in the south. I live in the south. Those days are long gone, thank God. :blink:

[lauratje86]

Stupid, ignorant people are everywhere. That's not a very good reason not to adopt a child with a different skin colour. It's more of an argument against moving to an area with lots of closed-minded bigots. :rolleyes:

That's true. Unfortunately, moving to a different area is not always an option.

Also, I guess that the thing that would worry me about adopting a child of a different race isn't that they might be subject to racist behaviour/remarks, but that I wouldn't have the experience of it myself to help them cope with it.

As a white person in a predominantly white town in a predominantly white country (I assume) it just isn't something that has ever played a part in my life. I do have some vaguely similar experiences of remarks/behaviour directed at me as a foreigner when I was living in another (predominantly white) country, but that's just not the same. I would worry that I wouldn't be able to help my adopted child cope as much as I would want to because racism isn't something I've ever experienced first-hand (with it directed at me).

Not to say that would necessarily stop me from adopting a child of a different race, but I'd have to think very carefully about whether I'd feel comfortable taking on that aspect of it. Which of course could end up never being an issue, but it could be.....

[justastaringproblem]

I think if you adopt a child young enough, they can be fine in any mixed race family. And I don't think it's right to choose families for children based on race. Look at children who are biologically mixed. My cousin is half white half African American, and she fits in just fine everywhere she goes. I think it depends on who adopts the kids and and how much love they're shown, not the race of the family, that determines how well they'll fit in. In this day and age it really won't make a diffence if you have a family with a rainbow of ethnicities. Look at Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt.

[qpldmff]

Did you get to the part where it says that Asians have generally higher intelligence than whites?

I don't think it's offensive at all.

It's also offensive to say that Asians are inherently smarter than whites.

Tell me something: How is it that Iceland enjoys a high standard of living and an extremely high literacy rate despite living on an island that has virtually nothing, while African nations do poorly, despite being on land with tons of natural resources?

African nations have an unfair disadvantage, but not because of the nature of the race of their inhabitants. They were exploited by foreign powers and told that they were subhuman. The economic disadvantage that past imperialism has inflicted upon them, as well as the decrease in self-worth and motivation caused by the efforts of racists like yourself. Iceland was also occupied, but its people were not mistreated and exploited by their invaders nearly to the degree that the Africans were.

It is also important to take into account that modern African nations, for the most part, have completely arbitrary borders with little regard to actual ethnic divisions. Ethnic tensions are yet another struggle that African nations have to deal with while a homogenous country like Iceland would never have to think about such a thing.

Why is it that crime is sky-high in majority-black cities? Don't tell me poverty, because West Virginia is among the poorest states, yet it has a very low crime rate--and it's 95% white.

West Virginia is a largely rural state, rather than an urban. And poverty does play one of the most significant roles in determining a city's crime rate. The reason that it correlates with that city's black population is because blacks are the poorest race in the country, thanks to centuries of economic, social, and political oppression and exploitation.

We are not all equal. This idea of "everyone's equal" does everyone a disservice. You can't expect a toddler, for example, to go to college and write a thesis on something.

Age and race are not a fair comparison in determining a person's intelligence and capabilities.

You should also read the article where the author visited Japan. After having read that, I was thinking, boy, I'd love to live there! They'd probably turn me down, though, because I'm white--and that's their right--their sandbox, their rules.

Racist practice in Japan cannot be fairly adapted in applied in a place like the United States. Japan is, for the most part, homogenous and has never been a hub of immigration.

It is not hate to point out differences like this. I think people should be encouraged to do the best they can with what they have, rather than demand special privileges and handouts. I know people have been brainwashed big-time since the 1960s.

People like you and the writers of that website are not encouraging people to do the best that they can. They are encouraging people to fit in with a corrupt and outdated social construct. "Special privileges" wouldn't be such an essential topic today if it weren't for the existence and the enforcement of this rigid social construct for so many years.

The thing is, diversity is divisive. Only because of the attitudes of racists like yourself.

[qpldmff]

Back on topic, I think that the effects of interracial adoption depend on the character of the specific child and his or her adopted parents. I know two girls, both adopted from China by white parents and both living in similar socioeconomic circumstances. One girl became depressed meditating on the fact that she was adopted. The other girl is perfectly adjusted and proud of her heritage.

[Nekochanpurr]

I don't think it should matter if you are a different race than your adopted parents. In fact, i can hardly understand why they put it under consideration.. I mean, as long as the family is offering a loving and caring home, why should race matter?