On transitioning existing worlds to new EPs

[Wintermute]

I am curious as to what others do with their existing Sims/neighborhoods when they install new EPs with additional types of community lots.

Assuming that EA will release the same number of EPs for Sims 3 as they did for Sims 2, the potentially large number of new community lots and rabbit holes will make it near-impossible for any neighborhood available right now to accommodate even one of every type and yet still maintain a decent number of residential lots for population expansion. A couple of options may exist on how to alleviate this problem:

1. Each time an EP is released with a packaged world, move Sims into that world
2. Download a custom 3rd party world and add to it with each new EP
3. Make a custom world

The downsides with option 1 have to do with the hassle of re-forming relationships, and possibly placing lots, every couple of months. Option 2 comes with risks, because third-party worlds vary in quality, and updating them is a hassle. The downsides with option 3 are obvious: it's extremely time-consuming to learn the ropes and to create a world that works seamlessly, though the results can be rewarding.

So, for those who have Ambitions and/or LN and have faced the same kind of problem, what did you do? What do you plan on doing as new EPs come along?

I just wish that EA had done what they had done previously with the Downtown in Sims 2, and had it be a sub-neighborhood that can be attached to the main neighborhood. This problem with potential overcrowding and clutter is essentially absent with Sims 2, because you can add countless sub-neighborhoods (or as many as your computer can handle), and increase the population limit. Having to choose among giving up on a neighborhood because of lack of space, limiting the variety of activities Sims can engage in, or moving them every so often so they can keep up with the EPs really lowers the replay value of the game, IMO.

[Robodl95]

Ambitions lots are easy to place, there aren't very many and fit in (with most towns), however LN is tricky. If you have both Ambitions and LN most of the worlds will already be out of room and LN lots aren't easy to blend in with the world (considering most are skyscrapers), the film lot is 64x64 which isn't even a usable empty lot in most places. You can download custom clubs but even then there's still the lot availability problem.

I'm waiting for a custom town, you can't enjoy ALL the EPs to the fullest without a town that implements all of them.

[GnatGoSplat]

I'm not sure I understand. You can just go to World Editor and place new lots anywhere you want. I did find the LN clubs don't really fit the other towns architecturally, so I just made my own clubs that look more like they'd fit the town.

[Robodl95]

I'm not sure I understand. You can just go to World Editor and place new lots anywhere you want. I did find the LN clubs don't really fit the other towns architecturally, so I just made my own clubs that look more like they'd fit the town.

There isn't anywhere to put lots! EA's towns are so irregular that it's very difficult to find any flat piece of land to put a lot on, finding a flat piece of land that also makes any logical sense (it annoys me to put a club in the middle of a residential area...) is impossible

[mangaroo]

I was under the impression that some LN features -- like the sandwich truck -- were actually CAW-embedded and couldn't be included via World Editor. True? False? D? All of the above?

[Wintermute]

I'm not sure I understand. You can just go to World Editor and place new lots anywhere you want. I did find the LN clubs don't really fit the other towns architecturally, so I just made my own clubs that look more like they'd fit the town.I know that I can place the community lots wherever I wish in Edit Town, but supposing that I only place the lots next to roads, the result would be that the world looks cluttered and stylistically incoherent, and that there would be less room for ordinary residential lots, because I'd have to place them in residential neighborhoods. There's not much open, routable space left even off of the roads in Sunset Valley, as some people have pointed out indirectly.

Building my own community lots to better fit with architectural styles would still not eliminate the problem with lack of space, which is the key issue, as architectural style is easy to change at whim.

[GnatGoSplat]

I guess with the small suburban towns, I didn't find it necessary to place as many night clubs as are in Bridgeport so I didn't run out of real-estate. So far, I just built one mega club which has just about every feature in it found in all the Bridgeport clubs combined.

[Wintermute]

@GnatGoSplat Your post reminded me of those multi-use community lots in Bridgeport (like the City Hall/Police Station/Military Base). Would you happen to know how to make one of those from an existing community lot? That would help alleviate the space problem, at least until EA releases the next EP.

[jnelsontx]

@Wintermute I replaced the city hall in Sunset Valley with the Bridgeport City Hall and then just got rid of the other lots. I built the movie studio on the former military base lot, but since it's 64x64 you could probably just drop in the Bridgeport studio. That frees up a few lots to put your Ambitions lots in town,

[simsample]

I was under the impression that some LN features -- like the sandwich truck -- were actually CAW-embedded and couldn't be included via World Editor. True? False? D? All of the above?
The food truck is a game object which can be modified to be placeable on lots or in CAW. Inge Jones has the truck and parking space (in-game enabled) for download on Simlogical, and I made my own which are on my 4Shared. It seems that you may have to make the world into a city in order for the truck to function correctly- see this thread:
http://www.modthesims.info/showthread.php?t=424374

[Srikandi]

I guess with the small suburban towns, I didn't find it necessary to place as many night clubs as are in Bridgeport so I didn't run out of real-estate. So far, I just built one mega club which has just about every feature in it found in all the Bridgeport clubs combined.

This is doable, of course, but you'll lose some LN features this way. Things like gig opportunities, special drinks, and bar food are tied to particular zoning types, and every type attracts a different type of clientele. And there are at least six different types :/

Of course these things might not matter to you.

[FridaKahlo]

Really? The clubs attract different types of clientele? I know Vamps are attracted to certain clubs, as are celebrities, but does it matter what kind of club it for regular sims?

This may be a stupid question. Actually it is, but whatever.

[GnatGoSplat]

Ah, I hadn't noticed that in Bridgeport, but that's mainly because my clubs are dead, dead, dead. Many of the Bridgeport clubs only allow celebrities, so I usually see several sims trying to get in that can't. For the one I made in Barnacle Bay, I just used "Dance Club" because it's open till 4AM and based on my experience with Bridgeport, The Grind was the most popular. Up to 4 other sims might be there!

[el_flel]

When Ambitions came out I was easily able to add the new lots to my current suburban style NH. However with LN I'm just playing in Bridgeport at the moment. For me, each neighbourhood has it's own feel so there are going to be certain lots that just don't tie in with it - huge skyscrapers and posh lounge bars in Riverview, for example - so I'm not really bothered about having all of the LN features in every NH.

[tizerist]

In answer to the original question, the problem lies in the size of the neighbourhood map you are using. I recommend using the biggest possible size.
If an amusement park EP or a farming EP came out now, I could accommodate them, just as I did with the highrises. I saw this problem when I was using Sunset Valley way back in March, and after much head scratching and rearranging I just chose a similar style map, but like 60% bigger.

[Robodl95]

I was under the impression that some LN features -- like the sandwich truck -- were actually CAW-embedded and couldn't be included via World Editor. True? False? D? All of the above?

I just read about this today and you are correct

[simsample]

I just read about this today and you are correct
Psst- see my post above, we have food trucks working in custom worlds, and we can flag custom worlds as cities.

[Six_by_Nine]

What EA will most likely do is just make bigger and bigger worlds that people with lower-end computers (like me) can't play. Or they'll stop adding jobs. Or they'll ignore the problem and act like Hoover did during the Great Depression. Most likely the latter.

[Nalia]

In answer to the original question, the problem lies in the size of the neighbourhood map you are using. I recommend using the biggest possible size.
If an amusement park EP or a farming EP came out now, I could accommodate them, just as I did with the highrises. I saw this problem when I was using Sunset Valley way back in March, and after much head scratching and rearranging I just chose a similar style map, but like 60% bigger.
What map you have found similar to Sunset Valley but 60% bigger? I am really interested.

@Simsample:
Have you worked on a smaller version of Sanctuary yet? :heyhey:

[el_flel]

There's the chance that future EPs won't add so many new buildings. For Late Night and Ambitions it was kind of mandatory, but might not be for future ones.

[J. M. Pescado]

Ah, I hadn't noticed that in Bridgeport, but that's mainly because my clubs are dead, dead, dead. Many of the Bridgeport clubs only allow celebrities, so I usually see several sims trying to get in that can't.Next version of AwesomeMod aims to alleviate some of "club deadness" by eliminating denial-spam: Sims will no longer clog visitor slots by visiting clubs they aren't allowed into, only to be repeatedly denied, so the "real" visitors will be able to get in. Of course, it won't help if you don't HAVE any real visitors.

[tizerist]

What map you have found similar to Sunset Valley but 60% bigger?
Overlook Bay.

[Nalia]

Thank you, Tizerist! <3

Next version of AwesomeMod aims to alleviate some of "club deadness" by eliminating denial-spam: Sims will no longer clog visitor slots by visiting clubs they aren't allowed into, only to be repeatedly denied, so the "real" visitors will be able to get in. Of course, it won't help if you don't HAVE any real visitors.
Define "real visitors".
Real as in my own created Sims, or anything else I don't even care about?

[DizzySim]

I smoosh in what ever I can from the new EP into the town I am already playing. I am in the middle of a huge legacy (been playing the same family for over a year.. with a few breaks from the game in there) and at the time i started it there was only sunset valley and riverview. For some reason my riverview town does not work properly (no sims can ever change their appearance), so there was only one other choice. When Ambitions came out I was very tempted to move the whole family to that new town so i could get all the buildings for it and because I liked the way it looked better, but I already had 4 or 5 generations worth of my family in sunset valley... not to mention all the extended family and life long friends so i didn't move them.

I was able to get the buildings I wanted onto my map from Ambitions and bulldozed a few places to get the film studio on there from LN. I have gotten pretty proficient at building clubs on one of the pretty small lots (that sells for $600 as empty lot) and have built so far three of the different club types needed. Have also found there are quite a few places that size lot will fit. So far it's working out. Hopefully by the time the next EP comes out that needs a lot of buildings I will be done with my legacy and ready to move on so i can start fresh in a new town and lay everything out properly.

[Wintermute]

Define "real visitors".
Real as in my own created Sims, or anything else I don't even care about?I think what he means is Sims who are eligible to enter the club (i.e. celebrities with high enough celebrity status). Newly-created neighborhoods won't have any celebrities (unless the player cheats and gives Sims celebrity points or whatever they're called), so exclusive clubs in new neighborhoods will be empty.

@DizzySim: I am also not keen on moving my Sims in my favorite 'hood, because I'd moved all of them twice already, and it's a pain to reform their relationships and to work out where they're going to lie. With the way things are going now, it will be next to impossible to avoid having to move them at least one more time. Not being able to keep all of them in the same 'hood for as long as I can keep it going is very, very frustrating. It's not like we can just attach a downtown and not have to worry.

[Nalia]

Thanks, Wintermute. <3
I presume some night clubs are doomed when I install LN. I hate the whole celebrity/paparazzi game.