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JohnBigOz
15th Jan 2012, 1:04 AM
Today I had a depression when I realised that Riverlbossom HIlls is doomed, (because of two things I've done WRONG, including deleting Dora's Ottomas' gravestone (I've learned that's a no no just yesterday -.- ) As well as deleting the Pre-made families that did nto come with Seasons.

Because I'm totally confused, I've downloaded J.M.P or whatever his name is Apartment File (which incldues some fixes (such as the Lot Debugger). But I came to a conclusion, no matter how hard I'll try, Riverblossom Hills is gonna be doomed, hm, seems kinda funny how I felt the same way about our world xD.

Anyways, there's something that CAN be done, and that's maintence to allow me to play for longer times. But I have no idea the things I should do (using SimPe) and I can't find any articles.

So, does anybody have any tips, mods to use, stuff to do to prevent my hood from becoming Big Fiery .. Flame.. something..? I really want Jacob to marry Sandra and then cheat on her with her brother (I get this homo vibe from both of them :| ), I might as well enjoy it till the all mysteriously die.

GEGNER
15th Jan 2012, 1:13 AM
From what I've read if you've just deleted a few the neighborhood won't be doomed immediately or extremely soon. Doom will happen, but not for a while. It could happen next time that you play, but it's unlikely. It may be a while until it's completely unplayable, so you can still get some things done before sacrifice.

And if you do sacrifice it you can always just reset the neighborhood.

JohnBigOz
15th Jan 2012, 1:28 AM
But Resetting Neighborhood isn't the same, it gets repetitive after a while, especially since it's pre-made.

Darby
15th Jan 2012, 1:35 AM
So, does anybody have any tips, mods to use, stuff to do to prevent my hood from becoming Big Fiery .. Flame.. something..?

Unfortunately, once a neighborhood is corrupted, there's no fix for it.

My general tips for neighborhood longevity start with use of clean neighborhood templates.
http://meetme2theriver.livejournal.com/63030.html#cutid1
They're very versatile! You can create a DIY merged "megahood" with these, or use them as better replacement standalone 'hoods for the defaults. Two caveats: The prescripted scenarios in the base game 'hoods will not run in these replacements, and townies' names that are normally the same in all games will generate differently.

Once you've got clean templates installed, maintenance includes deleting cache files regularly (http://www.modthesims.info/wiki.php?title=Game_Help:Game_Problem-Delete_Cache_Files) (add to that list the neighborhoodmanager.package file in the Neighborhoods folder, each time you add or delete a 'hood from your game), and using Pescado's BatBox (http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/smf/index.php?topic=72.0) to regularly clear trash memories from playable sims, and gossip files from "All" sims in the neighborhood.

ETA: And, of course, avoiding VBTs (http://www.modthesims.info/showthread.php?t=394352).

JohnBigOz
15th Jan 2012, 1:45 AM
Yeah, I'm planning on using those clean templates once the current version crashes and burns.

Babahara
15th Jan 2012, 3:41 AM
You can read this very helpful thread:

http://modthesims.info/showthread.php?t=394352&c=1&ht=&page=1&pp=25#startcomment

I'm pretty sure there was a kind of guide somewhere that summarizes it neatly, but I don't know where. Maybe it was written by somebody in that very thread and posted right there.

Btw if you deleted pre-made families from the bin without EVER playing them, it should be ok. Afaik, binned sims never show up on community or residential lots, so they've never interacted with any of your sims. They can be brought home from work, though, but unless that ever happened, your hood should be safe despite having deleted them.

A gravestone is another problem, but it's probably not that bad. I have four of my character files missing because I deleted four gravestones and have to live with it, and so far nothing bad has happened. What you can do is clear all gossip from sims who knew the sim whose gravestone was deleted with the Lot Debugger. For that you'll need to summon all playables and townie sims and use an option to clear all gossip from them. That should help by preventing sims from talking about the dead sim, which is what causes corruption to spread. That's kind of annoying to do if you have a lot of townies, but it's worth it if you want to avoid bad consequences.

Darby
15th Jan 2012, 4:47 AM
Btw if you deleted pre-made families from the bin without EVER playing them, it should be ok. Afaik, binned sims never show up on community or residential lots, so they've never interacted with any of your sims. They can be brought home from work, though, but unless that ever happened, your hood should be safe despite having deleted them.

Not true, unfortunately. It's common misconception that the problem is broken relationship ties with other sims the deleted sims have met, but that's only part of the story. The other part is that when ANY sim is deleted, that sim's own personal character file is "shredded", rather than truly cleanly deleted, and those shredded file bits are part of what corrupts the neighborhood, whether that sim has even met another sim or not.

AlexandraSpears
15th Jan 2012, 5:26 AM
What is needed is Pescado's Batbox and Theo's deleter plug-in for SimPE if you want to safely delete Sims.

poisonapple88
15th Jan 2012, 6:23 AM
I too have deleted some sims from the bin. However, I plan to play till the game explodes. Here are the steps to keeping your neighborhood safe!

1. Use clean or empty templates. It prevents all the binned families and unwanted townies from appearing. Use tutorials available at MATY.

http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/smf/index.php?topic=5861.0

Simply google clean neighborhood templates and you'll find it.

2. Download JM Pescado's noregen hacks. The director's cut is probably the best hack collection. It has no stray respawn, no dormie respawn, etc. It will keep your character files from bloating.

3. Download Mootilda's Hood Checker. Scan the neighborhood you plan on playing. Use remove feature so it can get rid of some of the junk.

4. Any corruption that cannot be fixed with the hood checker can be fixed with Sim Pe. It is mostly memories which are really easy to fix. She explains how to do it in the comments section. I knew nothing of this program and was able to do it.

5. Have back ups of your neighborhood and downloads. Keep them in a safe folder. Organize CC! My game started acting up and because I had a folder for new CC organized by installation date, I was able to find and fix the problem.

6. Avoid VBT. Don't delete tombstones, sims in the bin (uneeded if you use templates), don't package lots with sims in them. Non-intuitive things to do is a thread that goes over all of this.

7. Have fun! :) It's a lot of hard work but it will be worth it. Your game will last longer.

If you have questions feel free to ask.

JohnBigOz
15th Jan 2012, 7:14 AM
1. I can't use clean templates on already played hoods (except for OFB, Nightlife, because I already have Uni and a Vacation Hood)
2. I've downloaded the Director's Cut hack collection, but I also have the InTeen, which I heard conflict wich each other.
3. I have The Hood Checker, and I had a lot of invalid stuff there.
4. How do I actually detect corruptioni?
5. I backed up several times.
6. I never even knew deleting tombstones was a bad thing until like yesterday!, and I've know not to packate lots, I've doen that a long time ago with Johnny Smith and Ophelia Smith.
7. Thanks :D

katya_stevens
15th Jan 2012, 11:44 AM
2. I've downloaded the Director's Cut hack collection, but I also have the InTeen, which I heard conflict wich each other.

There are some hacks which conflict, but on the whole you can use MATY mods with InTeen. I certainly use the whole no respawn, no multiple service sim hacks with no issues.

4. How do I actually detect corruptioni?

The main signs of corruption are:

1) Disappearing sims (usually babies/toddlers) -- say you have a new baby born, you save and exit, and the next time you load up that 'hood they're gone. All the family who had memories of the baby born have "Had $Subject", "$Subject was added to the family" or similar phrasing.

2) Toddlers/children with LTWs and more 'grown up' wants -- why would a toddler want the household to have a car, and how come Daisy has the want to marry off six children when she's only just become a child herself?

3) If you have/use SimPE, shredded character files. They appear as a potato head with a red background (bliue backgrounds are fine) -- the only exception are the unknown files which are characters such as the OfB robots, remote controlled car, and if you use them multiple pollination technician files.

The first two are major signs; the third is more of a caution (I've been playing a 'hood with four corrupted character files on and off for about a year -- while I know it will explode at some point, I'm content to keep playing so long as I don't have either suddenly disappearing sims, or grown up wants for young sims. The moment those happen, I'm making a new version of that 'hood).

Babahara
15th Jan 2012, 11:50 AM
Not true, unfortunately. It's common misconception that the problem is broken relationship ties with other sims the deleted sims have met, but that's only part of the story. The other part is that when ANY sim is deleted, that sim's own personal character file is "shredded", rather than truly cleanly deleted, and those shredded file bits are part of what corrupts the neighborhood, whether that sim has even met another sim or not.
As far as I understand, there is no way for corruption to spread unless those shredded files are accessed. For example, that's the reason why deleting gossip helps to prevent corruption from spreading after you delete the gravestone. If the sims never knew anybody in the hood and nobody has memories of them, the game won't attempt to access their character files.

JohnBigOz
15th Jan 2012, 12:11 PM
Well, I've sadly gave up on that Riverblossom HIlls (don't know why, but it's deleted anyways)

I've decided instead to play theUberhood provided where the Clean version is, and believe me, That's A LOT of houshold (I counted 65 not counting Uni ones) and 84 households countign the Uni.

Which makes me VERY nervous since if I plan to play EACH household for 1 weeks (thinking of making it longer :/ ) that might take a while, and if every sim will be synced up, that might bloat and break that hood quicker.. So I'm not sure if I should go on or not :/

maxon
15th Jan 2012, 12:14 PM
As far as I understand, there is no way for corruption to spread unless those shredded files are accessed. For example, that's the reason why deleting gossip helps to prevent corruption from spreading after you delete the gravestone. If the sims never knew anybody in the hood and nobody has memories of them, the game won't attempt to access their character files.
Sorry no - that's not the all of it. What can happen is that a new sim in the hood - a child born-in-game - gets assigned parts of the old character data. This is because the game reuses NIDs (their unique instance numbers). If you had a sim you deleted, their file gets shredded but stuff gets left behind, like the broken connections to memories or relationships but also items like their SimDNA records and, particularly, their SWAFs. These are still labelled with the sim's NID. When a sim is born in game, they are given a new NID. Unfortunately, the game does not always assign a brand new one and will reuse NIDs of sims who have been deleted. When this happens, you get babies with lifetime wants and other corruptions because what they got was the lifetime want of the sim you deleted. This is what Katya is referring to above. When that happens, you know you have serious problems.

There is nothing you can do to prevent this. Pescado's Deleted 2 (the 'only safe way to delete a sim') avoids this because the method of deletion makes sure that all the sim data is deleted properly and is not left hanging around but you have to do the clean up BEFORE you delete the sim (which is what that 'Prep for Delete' button does on the batbox) and then delete all the remaining connections in SimPE afterwards. Deleting sims in the way the game will let you, leaves crap hanging about waiting to latch onto your sims and make them buggy and unplayable. I'm not sure what Deleted 2 does about the NIDs - I think nothing. I don't think that's something you can change but deleting all the crap PRIOR to deleting the sim, means the game has nothing to attach to a new sim and will therefore generate a normal SWAF (or whatever) for your newly born sim. Anyway, the point is, the gossip and memories thing is only the start of it (and is by far the easiest part to deal with - you CAN deal with that part just not the other stuff which is why the problem is such an issue).

I've decided instead to play theUberhood provided where the Clean version is, and believe me, That's A LOT of houshold (I counted 65 not counting Uni ones) and 84 households countign the Uni.

Which makes me VERY nervous since if I plan to play EACH household for 1 weeks (thinking of making it longer :/ ) that might take a while, and if every sim will be synced up, that might bloat and break that hood quicker.. So I'm not sure if I should go on or not :/
You should be fine as long as you don't do anything daft (NO DELETING SIMS!!!!). I play a neighbourhood with around 55-60 households on rotation. You might want to rethink the one week each rotation though - it will take you forever to get round to everyone.

JohnBigOz
15th Jan 2012, 12:30 PM
Yeah, I don't think I'll actually get to doing it, I think I'll stick to the one hood for now, might not be Riverblossom Hills though, I gotta take a break, it's not the same when you replay it again.

Babahara
15th Jan 2012, 7:59 PM
Sorry no - that's not the all of it. What can happen is that a new sim in the hood - a child born-in-game - gets assigned parts of the old character file. This is because the game reuses NIDs (their unique instance numbers). If you had a sim you deleted, their file gets shredded but stuff gets left behind, like the broken connections to memories or relationships but also items like their SimDNA records and, particularly, their SWAFs. These are still labelled with the sim's NID. When a sim is born in game, they are given a new NID. Unfortunately, the game does not always assign a brand new one and will reuse NIDs of sims who have been deleted. When this happens, you get babies with lifetime wants and other corruptions because what they got was the lifetime want of the sim you deleted. This is what Katya is referring to above. When that happens, you know you have serious problems.
Wow that sounds pretty depressing. I didn't know it's that complex, and I guess Maxis didn't specifically tailor the game to a type of player who would play one single hood for years, so they didn't check very well what can corrupt the hood over time.

Well then, the only solution to a corrupt baby would be to kill it immediately the normal way, I guess. Then the character file is "present" at least and won't be reused yet again.

I once had a totally corrupt sim, with an aspiration sign missing and almost half of the panel on the right missing. She died normally from hunger due to my neglect, but with four gravestones in her inventory, my guess is that it's what corrupted her (as well as left me with four incorrectly deleted sims), and I attempted to resurrect her to get the graves back. She came back like that. Never seen any other corrupt sims in my life, and I hope I won't!

Btw, it still sounds strange to me. Those binned families, like Cooke or Traveler, aren't assigned to any hood by default, are they? So I thought that if you delete them without ever playing them, their data won't be in any database in any of the hoods. Oh well, I must be wrong, they should have their data somewhere, after all. I don't really understand what a NID is, but I guess it's wrong to imagine it as something totally different and separate in different hoods or something that needs to be assigned to a specific hood first. Although if it's something global, then it should mean that if one character file in one hood is missing, then it could potentially create a problem for all other hoods, too. So now I made myself even more confused about how local or global it is. :faceslap:

poisonapple88
15th Jan 2012, 9:11 PM
I've already deleted Sims from the bin. Is there any way to remove their character files? I know their location in Sim Pe.

JohnBigOz
15th Jan 2012, 10:59 PM
Btw, it still sounds strange to me. Those binned families, like Cooke or Traveler, aren't assigned to any hood by default, are they? So I thought that if you delete them without ever playing them, their data won't be in any database in any of the hoods. Oh well, I must be wrong, they should have their data somewhere, after all. I don't really understand what a NID is, but I guess it's wrong to imagine it as something totally different and separate in different hoods or something that needs to be assigned to a specific hood first. Although if it's something global, then it should mean that if one character file in one hood is missing, then it could potentially create a problem for all other hoods, too. So now I made myself even more confused about how local or global it is. :faceslap:

When loading a hood for the first time, the Stealth Hoods (Exotic Destinations, Magic, Pets, Weather etc) They create and put the bin families in.

Mootilda
15th Jan 2012, 11:28 PM
Btw, it still sounds strange to me. Those binned families, like Cooke or Traveler, aren't assigned to any hood by default, are they?Clones of the families from the stealth neighborhood templates, which appear in the Sim Bin, are assigned to every single neighborhood. They are NOT global. Each neighborhood gets its own unique cloned family. If a sim is in your Sim Bin, that sim has data which is permanently attached to your neighborhood.

That's why I hate stealth neighborhoods. What a stupid idea. Why would anyone want the same exact families stuck into every single neighborhood?

The solution is fairly simple: remove your stealth neighborhood templates, or replace them with properly emptied templates.

Families in the Lot Bin are truly global. They have not yet been assigned to a neighborhood and are safe to delete.

That's why it's a really bad idea to move an occupied lot into the Lot Bin. You are basically ripping the family out of the neighborhood, leaving now-invalid references to them in the neighborhood, and leaving the family with now-invalid references to everyone else in the neighborhood.
I've already deleted Sims from the bin. Is there any way to remove their character files? I know their location in Sim Pe.Removing their character files will only corrupt your neighborhood even more. If you deleted sims from the Sim Bin, then your neighborhood is corrupt and there is no way to fix it. You just have to decide whether you want to continue to play a corrupted neighborhood until it becomes unplayable, or whether you want to get rid of your corrupted neighborhood and start over again from scratch, using clean and empty templates, using critical fix and no-regen mods, and avoiding things which will cause corruption.

JohnBigOz
16th Jan 2012, 12:18 AM
Where do I find clean vesions of the Stealth Hoods? The ones provided here : http://meetme2theriver.livejournal.com/63030.html#cutid1 actually still have SimBins in them and I don't see "empty" versions of them.

maxon
16th Jan 2012, 12:53 AM
Wow that sounds pretty depressing. I didn't know it's that complex, and I guess Maxis didn't specifically tailor the game to a type of player who would play one single hood for years, so they didn't check very well what can corrupt the hood over time.

Well then, the only solution to a corrupt baby would be to kill it immediately the normal way, I guess. Then the character file is "present" at least and won't be reused yet again.
That might work though it's messy and you couldn't predict whether a baby would get the relevent NID (I think there is a certain randomness to their assignation). You've reminded me, I think that's more or less what Deleted 2 does - put a placeholder in for the dead sim.

Btw, it still sounds strange to me. Those binned families, like Cooke or Traveler, aren't assigned to any hood by default, are they? So I thought that if you delete them without ever playing them, their data won't be in any database in any of the hoods. Oh well, I must be wrong, they should have their data somewhere, after all.
I'm not sure about the bin sims (don't have due to empty templates). Katya might know about that. Edit: Ah, ninja'd by Mootilda.

I don't really understand what a NID is
It's just a code that allows the game to identify your sim - every sim's NID is different. The NID is attached to the sim file and has corresponding entries in the Sim Memories file, the Sim DNA files, the Sim Wants and Fears, the Sim Relationships file and so on (you didn't think all the information about a sim was kept in the same place, did you?). The NID allows the game to connect all these things together (by matching them up as you play). When the game deletes a sim, it just deletes the sim file and cuts the connections.

poisonapple88
16th Jan 2012, 1:22 AM
From what I've seen in the hood checker and on MATY, a neighborhood will become corrupt no matter what you do. All these steps prevent excess corruption but it is STILL there. We don't know everything about the game so there is probably stuff we haven't found. I think we should use these tools to keep as much visible corruption to a minimum. I am using as many means as I can. I think I will test how long this hood lasts even with my deleted sims. Maybe using the hood checker and the noregen mods will keep the game going for a long time.

Do what you can and try not to worry about. You won't find everything. I panicked about it enough. As long as I back up my game and keep my downloads safe I should be okay if I have to restart.

Vladora
16th Jan 2012, 1:59 AM
2. I've downloaded the Director's Cut hack collection, but I also have the InTeen, which I heard conflict wich each other.


There's no reason to put the entire Director's Cut in your download's folder. There are a couple threads on MATY that describe what all the mods in the Director's Cut do and usually whether or not they are compatible with other mods (like inTeen). No two people's play style's are alike, so it's fine if you pick-and-choose which mods you want in your game.

JohnBigOz
16th Jan 2012, 7:14 AM
Ugh, I wanna play some Sims 2, but I wanna no Families Bin versions of Stealth Hoods!? Anybody can help me out with that?

I was selecting which mods I wanna keep from the Director's Cut, and I found it just tedious.

One thing that put me off Sims 3 was that I needed hacks to have ANY type of fun, and I think I will just simply uninstall Sims 2, it's given me so much trouble recently it's not fun anymore :(

Babahara
16th Jan 2012, 11:13 AM
@JohnBigOz, please check your PMs for the links.

You've reminded me, I think that's more or less what Deleted 2 does - put a placeholder in for the dead sim.
Out of curiousity: is there some way to assign a particular NID to a new sim forcibly, not accidentally as it happens (with killing that sim as a plan)? I ask because I wonder if there's a way to prevent them from being assigned to any new sims this way.

Thank you for the NID explanation. It's very interesting how the game functions.

Mootilda, thank you, too, for the explanation. :)

maxon
16th Jan 2012, 7:04 PM
Out of curiousity: is there some way to assign a particular NID to a new sim forcibly, not accidentally as it happens (with killing that sim as a plan)? I ask because I wonder if there's a way to prevent them from being assigned to any new sims this way.
No - if that were possible, we wouldn't have the problem.

Peni Griffin
16th Jan 2012, 7:24 PM
You know what would be awesome? If some programming genius could take this bug and make it into a feature - Reincarnation! Where the kid who picks up the NID also picks up some of the established traits, relationships, and skills of the dead sim, and these become integrated into the new baby as character head-starts in some areas, without completely warping the game.

Probably that sort of thing would have had to be planned from Day 1 though.

Mootilda
16th Jan 2012, 9:02 PM
Where do I find clean vesions of the Stealth Hoods? The ones provided here : http://meetme2theriver.livejournal.com/63030.html#cutid1 actually still have SimBins in them and I don't see "empty" versions of them.First, I suspect that you don't want clean templates, but empty ones. Let me explain the terminology, as it tends to be used for Sims 2.

Clean templates have all of the playables, but some of the townies and ancestors have been safely removed from the neighborhood. Which townies and ancestors remain in the neighborhood is completely up to the person who created the clean template.

Empty templates have no sims at all, playable or otherwise. The best place for empty templates is this thread:
http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/smf/index.php/topic,13382.0.html

Fixed templates are neighborhoods which have had corruption fixed. As poisonapple88 pointed out, EA tends to ship neighborhoods which are already corrupt in some way, and some of this corruption can be fixed.

Tarlia has shared cleaned and fixed neighborhood templates, but not empty ones. Just to give people an example, here is a list of the things that Tarlia fixed in her first version of the clean and fixed hood templates. She implemented a bunch of new fixes for the most recent version, including fixes which are only possible via the HoodChecker:
http://meetme2theriver.livejournal.com/29134.html

JohnBigOz
17th Jan 2012, 3:52 AM
I think I'll just move those annoying families in -.- I dunno.. I'm kinda sick and tired of struggling with Sims games lately.

But Empty ones have no Garden Sims or Strays, which is something I still wanna keep?

Hm, I now find it hard to play the sims, knowing how bugged/glitchy the game is, which is weird, I wish I never knew :/

Director's Cut is the worst modpack I've ever learned, yea sure it has a lot of nice stuff, my the stuff is half useless. It made my head explode and completely killed my want to play the game.

Either way, I think I'm gonna install just the stuff I need rather than "additional" fixes, half of these I've never even seen.

Babahara
17th Jan 2012, 6:00 AM
But Empty ones have no Garden Sims or Strays, which is something I still wanna keep?
Garden sims will regenerate even if you use empty templates, there are always four of them. So if you call the garden club one will be regenerated. If you ask for a review, all four will be regenerated in order to come to you. This is normal, and it's impossible to have no garden club sims anyway.

As for strays, if you don't delete anything in your Character folder, you'll have strays, I think. But you'll have the two pre-made families that come with Pets, too, the Cyd and the Crittur. Although it's actually possible to single out which files are theirs, so technically you can only delete these pre-made families and leave all strays intact, for that you'd need to look at each file in SimPe to determine if it's Crittur or Cyd. I could do that if you want and tell you which files to delete, if you still plan on playing instead of giving up :)

Director's Cut is the worst modpack I've ever learned, yea sure it has a lot of nice stuff, my the stuff is half useless. It made my head explode and completely killed my want to play the game.
Then don't install it, these hacks are optional. I don't know who told you to install all of them, it's certainly not required. The only really useful one that is an important fix is nounlinkondelete (it prevents the game from becoming corrupt upon deleting the grave).

There are some other fixes, however, some of them are applied already if your game is patched, and none is fatal anyway. Most of those hacks aren't fixes at all, they just make the game more comfortable. I'd never install the whole package for sure. :)

Babahara
17th Jan 2012, 6:22 AM
P.S. Actually all that stuff I wrote about Crittur and Cyd etc. isn't necessary. I forgot that strays would be regenerated anyway, so you can safely delete all the files. They do not regenerate only if you have hacks preventing them from spawning, like me! People use such hacks if they want to create their own sims or pets in CAS and fill the hood with them, in that case it makes sense to stop the game from spawning them automatically. But if you want strays then just don't use the hack, and strays will be spawned normally by the game. The hack to stop pets from spawning is called "nostrayrespawn", everything should be ok unless you have it.

JohnBigOz
17th Jan 2012, 7:21 AM
Hm, I gotta rethink of each Templates I've downloaded
I've downloaded all Unis, which I presume are fixed from the Livejournal site or whatever that site is called :|
I've downloaded fixed version of Downtown
I've downloaded fixed version of Bluewater
I've downloaded cleaned out Seasons, which should automatically spawn Garden Members
I've downloaded cleaned out Pets, which spawns nothing, and I DO have the No Strays Respawn, which might become troublesome.
I've downloaded cleaned out FreeTime, will the Membership members spawn automatically or..? Where do THEY come from?
I've downloaded cleaned out Apartment Life. How does that affect Social Townies?

I know i have the No Stray respawn, the Anti-redundency mod, SSHack, no TownieRegen.

Mootilda
17th Jan 2012, 8:22 AM
If you want the various sims to spawn, you have to remove your no-regen mods, at least temporarily.

Babahara
17th Jan 2012, 8:57 AM
I've downloaded cleaned out FreeTime, will the Membership members spawn automatically or..? Where do THEY come from?
I've downloaded cleaned out Apartment Life. How does that affect Social Townies
Hobby membership leaders and social townies spawn automatically. Social townies will only spawn if you use an apartment, then they "move in" and get spawned this way.

JohnBigOz
17th Jan 2012, 9:02 AM
So .. Pescedo's or.. whoever made that FFS Debug/Hacks from MATY.

Those anti-respawn hacks, are they usefull for normal gameplay? i.e avoid bugs/glitches/fixes or are they only useful if I want hood with custom sims inside it.

Babahara
17th Jan 2012, 10:47 AM
They're only useful if you want custom sims.

JohnBigOz
17th Jan 2012, 11:08 AM
Cool, guess that solves last problem, now which hood should I play... :D

Btw, while I know leaving boolprop testingcheatsenabled true on for a while is "dangerous" is it "dangerous" if not used, (except to drag stuff up and down, i.e motives etc). Because I never go beyond commands like "Make me Contact" "Make me Furious" or spawn the Sim Modder, otherwise I rare ever touch anything, and I also usually press Reset when a "Force Error" comes up.

Peni Griffin
17th Jan 2012, 4:03 PM
A lot of people here play with the testingcheats on all the time. It's only dangerous if you're prone to idly pressing buttons to find out what they do; though I suppose it's always possible for the cat to screw you over by walking on the keyboard when you've just shift-clicked.

JohnBigOz
17th Jan 2012, 4:20 PM
Yeah.. I hate cats and my bedroom is my sanctuary (i.e no outsiders!!)

Btw, while I know for sure Belladonna is completely screweded up (I saw a pic of somebody's Corrupted Family Tree) I have this weird obessesion with full Family Trees, because the Clean versions mostly provide 2 generations trees (unless there's a family connection that requires earlier) Are the first hoods (Pleasantview, Strangetown, Veronaville) in any way "damaged"? Or can I just plop down, or is it better of using the "cleaned up" version?

Peni Griffin
17th Jan 2012, 4:31 PM
The family trees in Strangetown are pretty messed up - the Curious-Smith-Singles lot in particular - much better use the clean versions if you don't want to have to go fix that stuff yourself. And I believe the clean versions also fix potential problems with the dead sims in the graveyard.

I have this impression, though, that the cleaned-up versions remove the pre-programmed scenarios, so you should check that and do a cost-benefit analysis if, for instance, you really want Vidcund to get alien pregnant.

JohnBigOz
17th Jan 2012, 4:41 PM
Well, I know Strangetown is pretty messed up, what about Verona? Since i'm thinking of playing that instead.

Peni Griffin
17th Jan 2012, 5:09 PM
Veronaville has one family in which the brother and sister lose their family tags on aging up. Which is great if you want to run an incest storyline, not so much if you don't.

I believe all the premade neighborhoods have some sort of mess left behind by programmers rushed by the corporation; sorry.

Darby
17th Jan 2012, 5:13 PM
Well, I know Strangetown is pretty messed up, what about Verona? Since i'm thinking of playing that instead.

If you're using Tarlia's clean templates, ALL the families in ALL the 'hoods are fixed, with regard to genetics and family trees.

Peni's right about the pre-scripted scenarios not working in the cleaned base game 'hoods. (I recently ran through them all in freshly installed game, just for fun and so I could say I had. When I play the 'hoods for real in my merged 'hood, I'll probably cheat an abduction for Vidcund, but can easily live without the rest.)

ginrouken
17th Jan 2012, 5:52 PM
while I know leaving boolprop testingcheatsenabled true on for a while is "dangerous"
Debug mode in itself is not dangerous - it's what you do with it that can cause problems. You can leave it on all the time if you want, just don't mess with unknown options just to find out what they do. That's what kills curious cats. ;)

Hm, I now find it hard to play the sims, knowing how bugged/glitchy the game is, which is weird, I wish I never knew :/
You know, we know that this realization that the game comes corrupt out of the box is disappointing, that all the fixed/clean/empty templates can be confusing until you decide what exactly you want from each of them. We've all been there. But don't let that discourage you from playing the game! Technically, you can play the neighborhoods as they come, if you don't want to bother messing with templates - it is your game and your choice, first and foremost. But it's always a risk, you never know when a hood you've been playing forever might decide to curl up and die, so why not try to stop the problems before they happen?

Even if it seems a bit overwhelming, going through this learning curve is worth it in the long run. It's boring work, it's annoying, yeah, but if you choose to lose some time working the kinks out of your templates now, you'll gain it all back with more stable, less headache-inducing hoods to play with later. :)

JohnBigOz
17th Jan 2012, 6:24 PM
I'd stick to using cleaned templates, but for some reason I really want to keep the full family trees.

And I pretty much don't care about the Scenarios, except the Vidcund one, (which can be somehow fixed.. though Freetime really F'd up that command), Don Lothario leaving Cassandra (I'm not sure if it's a chance or not) and the Mary-Sue catching Daniel with Kaylynn. But other than that, Scenarios are no biggie.

Does the Cleaned Veronaville keep the first generation or does it remove them?

Darby
17th Jan 2012, 6:41 PM
I'd stick to using cleaned templates, but for some reason I really want to keep the full family trees.

Does the Cleaned Veronaville keep the first generation or does it remove them?

To the comment, I don't have any reason to think the clean templates don't include the full family trees. I haven't compared the ones in the clean templates to the originals, but don't see why she'd have removed anything.

To the question, I'm not sure what you mean. "Keep" the first generation? If you mean in the family tree, my remarks above apply. If you mean playables, all the playables are intact (but fixed) and on their original lots in Tarlia's clean templates.

ETA: The long and short of it, imo, is that the clean templates are far superior and well worth having, especially if you don't care about keeping the pre-scripted scenarios. Whatever happens in them can be simulated by the player anyway.

ETA2: The solution to any concern about any replacement templates (whether clean or empty) is to keep the originals backed up in case you don't end up liking the replacements. And with Tarlia's, you don't even have to do that, if you're using them as standalone 'hoods, because you don't have to replace the original 'hoods in the installation files. You can simply copy/paste them into the Neighborhoods folder after deleting the originals. If you want the originals back, take out or delete the Neighborhoods folder, run the game, and they'll regenerate. So there's really not anything to worry about with these. It's all reversible.

Peni Griffin
17th Jan 2012, 6:48 PM
If you spawn the Tombstone of Life and Death (under testingcheats), you can Shift+Click Vidcund and make him alien pregnant. This will not cause an abduction, satisfy a want or fulfill a fear to meet aliens, create an abduction memory, or have any of the knock-on effects of abduction; it will just cause the alien baby. The first of my alien babies was created in this way, and it worked fine; only it was unwitnessed and the father has a lot more memory loss than the later abductees in the neighborhood. If you want the rest of it, you'll probably have to give Vidcund the "summon aliens" perk. Which, face it, someone like Vidcund needs anyway; but unless the cleaned neighborhoods give him points to spend on aspiration perks, you won't be able to do that right away.

About the family trees, I don't know. Some of these questions might be better asked of the person who cleaned the templates you're using.

Darby
17th Jan 2012, 6:56 PM
About the family trees, I don't know. Some of these questions might be better asked of the person who cleaned the templates you're using.

Reminds me: Mootilda linked to a list of fixes upthread.
Tarlia has shared cleaned and fixed neighborhood templates, but not empty ones. Just to give people an example, here is a list of the things that Tarlia fixed in her first version of the clean and fixed hood templates. She implemented a bunch of new fixes for the most recent version, including fixes which are only possible via the HoodChecker:
http://meetme2theriver.livejournal.com/29134.html

Specific to discussion about family trees:
* ALL RELATIONSHIPS FIXED. Sims know the sims they should know, are related to the sims they should be related to, family trees have been fixed, etc.

:)

Julieryc
17th Jan 2012, 7:09 PM
If you want the rest of it, you'll probably have to give Vidcund the "summon aliens" perk. Which, face it, someone like Vidcund needs anyway; but unless the cleaned neighborhoods give him points to spend on aspiration perks, you won't be able to do that right away.

If you're not mod-averse, you can use the Batbox from MATY to "Upgrade Sim..." "Pre-FT" to get aspiration points for your sims; you'll get more if you upgrade them to also have graduated from college, but Vidcund would at least get "Become Adult" and probably enough extra points to get the "Summon Aliens" perk. (You have to manually click to give them the points for the toddler memories for some reason of programming - apparently Pescado assumed that everyone grows up without getting taught how to walk/talk/use the toilet - but those might add another perk point to spend.)

Mootilda
17th Jan 2012, 7:44 PM
So .. Pescedo's or.. whoever made that FFS Debug/Hacks from MATY.

Those anti-respawn hacks, are they usefull for normal gameplay? i.e avoid bugs/glitches/fixes or are they only useful if I want hood with custom sims inside it.They're only useful if you want custom sims.Just for clarification, they are also useful if you want to limit the number of completely useless sims in your neighborhoods.

As an example, I just added an empty university to my latest neighborhood. I removed NoDormieRegen temporarily so that my dorms would fill up, then added it back to Downloads so that no additional university townies would generate.

EA adds far too many useless sims to your neighborhoods through the stealth neighborhoods and subhoods. I really don't need even more generated at every turn.

To the comment, I don't have any reason to think the clean templates don't include the full family trees. I haven't compared the ones in the clean templates to the originals, but don't see why she'd have removed anything.Actually, I believe that she removed all ancestors except the latest generation. However, rather than speculate further, I'll do some testing. I only intend to check Pleasantview, but I believe that the results will apply to all neighborhoods.

[Update:] The Goth family tree appears to be intact. However, the Broke family tree is missing several members: Bob Sr. and Mags Newbie, and Vadim and Fatima Simovitch. The Caliente family tree is missing Benazir and Tariq Al Mahmoud. This suggests that Tarlia removed some, but not all, ancestors.

As a reference, Madame Mim has a wonderful family tree for Pleasantview, available as the second picture on this page:
http://genensims.com/guest/MadameMim/neighbourhoodsPV.htm

Note that she created maiden names for the women, where none were supplied. Her changes are marked in red.

JohnBigOz
18th Jan 2012, 7:35 AM
Regarding the drees, the following was changed

The first generation (i.e earliest Anecstors) have been removed unless Tombstones are present (Goth), or if a sim is required because it links to another sim (i.e Natasha Una)

Babahara
18th Jan 2012, 9:14 AM
Just for clarification, they are also useful if you want to limit the number of completely useless sims in your neighborhoods.
Afaik only anti-redundancy hack does it, the rest only stop the spawnage.

Btw, I came to the conclusion that unless somebody really hates pets, it's bad to use the nostrayrespawn hack. Not only strays do not spawn, but if you try to call the pet adoption center with that hack in, the adoption center will generate as empty. You can generate adult pets in the game and add them to the adoption center, but you can't generate puppies and kittens. So that hack is only good if you're sure that your sims won't suddenly have a desire to adopt a small kitten. :)

It's possible to breed kittens and puppies on your own and put them up for adoption, but in that case they'll be all related to each other, and no further breeding between them is possible.

JohnBigOz
18th Jan 2012, 10:29 AM
The original Veronaville file has 181 character files.

The "cleaned" vesrion from MeetMe2River/LiveJounrla site has only 57 files :/

gulhare
18th Jan 2012, 10:44 AM
Babahara

Anti redundancy only affects how many of the specific NPCs you get, I think the game spawns 4 of every kind. 4 newspaper deliverers, 4 repair persons and so on...and on... Antiredundancy gives you one only, and I think that is just great.

The no respawn ones saves you from a bunch of (useless) sims (like townies), that will spawn once you start playing even if you have empty neighbourhood templates. If you like your game packed with townies,strays,dormies and such then you might not want to use the respawn-mods. Personally I like to keep townies to a minimum (0 at the moment), because I prefer to play with the playables and dont care to much about townies. I think Mootilda shares that view and thats why Mootilda calls them totally useless.

JonBigOz

What a work to clean out all of that. 181 to 57! I am even more grateful than I was before.

JohnBigOz
18th Jan 2012, 1:00 PM
Well, I know how much was removed, but are the first generation sims kept? for all 3 families?

Darby
18th Jan 2012, 4:30 PM
Well, I know how much was removed, but are the first generation sims kept? for all 3 families?

Again, what do you mean when you say "first generation sims"? If you're asking if all the playable sims are included, the answer is YES, as has been mentioned. If you mean dead ancestors in family trees, she might have removed some, as Mootilda found in Pleasantview's Broke family. (Thanks for checking that, Mootilda!) Small price to pay for a cleaner game, imo.

Fewer character files is a GOOD thing. It does not mean fewer playables. It means fewer junk files that you'll never notice are gone, except that the game will run better.

I'll point out again, too, that you can quickly and easily check these things out in your game. Any of Tarlia's "main" neighborhoods can be dropped into the game's Neighborhoods folder (as long as you've at least temporarily removed the defaults with the same neighoborhood number first, of course) and played immediately. If you don't like what you find, delete them and put the original folders back in.

JohnBigOz
18th Jan 2012, 5:11 PM
... right. I know that much, yes, i meant first generation DEAD ancestors..... I want them, I know it's stupid, but I want them.

Why did the clean version remvoe all default Townies? What was the reason for that?

Is it possible I could create my own clean version without deleting first genertions ancestors?

Infact, what changes ARE made in the clean version anyways?

Mootilda
18th Jan 2012, 8:01 PM
Why did the clean version remove all default Townies? What was the reason for that?There is no official clean version. When talking about clean and/or fixed versions, you have to specify whose clean and/or fixed version.

Clean and fixed neighborhood templates are created by people because they are willing to put in the effort to make a neighborhood that they want to play. If we're lucky, they are willing to share the results with us.

Tarlia removed sims because she didn't want those sims. There are other clean and fixed versions where the creator chose different sets of sims to keep. However, because so many Sims 2 sites are disappearing, it may be difficult to find them now.

There were some clean and fixed neighborhood templates that kept all of the ancestors, by SaraMK at MATY,, but I'm not sure that the download links still work. However, you could try following the links and see what's available:
http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/smf/index.php/topic,4306.0.html

Is it possible I could create my own clean version without deleting first genertions ancestors?Of course.

Infact, what changes ARE made in the clean version anyways?If you're talking about Tarlia's clean versions, I gave a link earlier which listed some of the changes that she made:
http://meetme2theriver.livejournal.com/29134.html

For her current version, she used a pre-release version of the HoodChecker to find the remaining problems, and to fix those problems which could not be fixed using SimPE. She also added full user data to many of the dead sims, so that they could be resurrected; she gives the download site for that user data by Celesta92059:
http://sims.wikia.com/wiki/Tutorial:Resurrecting_tips

She may have made other changes as well.

I believe that MATY tends to be a good place to find information on existing corruption in the shipped neighborhoods (and how to fix it).

Here is a tutorial about how to safely remove a sim from your neighborhood:
http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/smf/index.php/topic,6205.0.html

[Update:]

I also found this (obsolete) tutorial on cleaning a neighborhood:
http://www.oocities.org/saramkirk/nhoods/nhoods.html

JohnBigOz
18th Jan 2012, 8:28 PM
Thanks.

CandyFluff
19th Jan 2012, 12:51 AM
Another important mod for limiting character files is CJ's Townies Live In Apartments http://drupal.cyjon.net/node/220 = No stupid Social Groups

JohnBigOz
19th Jan 2012, 9:15 AM
Already have that.

I have now found a cleaned version. can't remember where I downloaded it from though, but thanks for the information, you've all been VERY helpful :)

I'm off to create more drama in Veronaville!

Wow, it's really ahrd to get into Verona :/

I just read this about the Ottomas family on Sims wiki

"Reportedly, the twins themselves are bugged, and a very bad thing for a neighborhood; possibly leading to serious damage to both the neighborhood and the game. It is highly recommended that you use a mod like the Sim blender to abort the babies.If she is allowed to have the twins it could corrupt your neighborhood.There is something about pregnant binned Sims that could cause game corruption."

Is this true?

Another not, I wanted to check if one of the clean version for Riverblossom provided the Ottomas by any chance (since they came with Season I had no issue with them existing in my game) and while I was snooping around the Neighobrhood package (That was in the save game) I've noticed several Unknown sims with a Red Background with Potato heads, but I haven't played the hood yet. Is that bad? I heard that is a VERY bad sign.