Trayvon Martin what do you think!

[Autistic socialist]

I have confirmed that the shooter's Judge father was involved in the investigation and that Zimmerman is part Jewish from the WashPost.

Me thinks the police are stonewalling so Zimmerman can get away to Israel and be unreachable when the FBI issues an arrest warrant! Israel has a policy not to let Jews be extradited to Gentile countries no matter what so he can't be gotten there!

This whole thing will turn into a giant race riot, but like powerful people care about the Proles!
I would like to hear your thoughts. My thought is Trayvon Martin had more right to defend himself because he was a boy being stalked and Zimmerman's whole argument is that Martin was wearing a hoody and and was black which of course we know from Trayvon's Phone call that he put his hood up when he saw he being watched. Trayvon's screaming appears to have been a typical response to "Stranger Danger!"

What is your opinion!

[Oaktree]

I don't know much more than the basics of the case, and a few of the developments, but I think it's pretty clear that Zimmerman had an agenda and hid behind a poorly worded law to carry out his agenda. Unfortunately, I don't know if that leaves any opportunity to have him tried for murder. I think the evidence is stacking up that he pursued this boy to kill him, but he still might be shielded by the stupid law.

[RoseCity]

I have confirmed that the shooter's Judge father was involved in the investigation and that Zimmerman is part Jewish from the WashPost.

Me thinks the police are stonewalling so Zimmerman can get away to Israel and be unreachable when the FBI issues an arrest warrant! Israel has a policy not to let Jews be extradited to Gentile countries no matter what so he can't be gotten there!
!
He's not an Israeli citizen, so why would they harbor him? They wouldn't let him enter the country if he was a fugitive.

[Autistic socialist]

I don't know much more than the basics of the case, and a few of the developments, but I think it's pretty clear that Zimmerman had an agenda and hid behind a poorly worded law to carry out his agenda. Unfortunately, I don't know if that leaves any opportunity to have him tried for murder. I think the evidence is stacking up that he pursued this boy to kill him, but he still might be shielded by the stupid law.
Incorrect the law is perfect... It allows you to kill someone if there legitimate reason to think they are committing or going to commit a felony, Trayvon had the right to atttack Zimmerman not Zimmerman to attack Trayvon, due to Zimmerman was engaging class A pedo like behavior, I will tell my kids if an adult approaches him in that way to kick the man in the jewels and run back home screaming "RAPE" all the way! Trayvon did what every kid should do and if he were alive the law would apply to him. Zimmerman the law does apply to due to he provoked the situation. The law does not say you can do something stupid and get away with killing someone... Zimmerman had no reason to believe the kid was dangerous and should have not even called 9/11. This law is good the Police are just crocked.

I have seen police do this all the Time in Florida. I have even seen happen to white people! This is normal Florida corruption not the effect of a bad law!

[Autistic socialist]

He's not an Israeli citizen, so why would they harbor him? They wouldn't let him enter the country if he was a fugitive.
Because Israel considers anyone with a Jewish parent or grand parent to be a citizen of them... You to read this website http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/ you'll discover Israel saves Jewish people from gentile justice all the time. I have Jewish friends in case you will accuse me of antisemitism!

[paksetti]

I have Jewish friends
congratulations.

(or, should I say מזל טוב?)

--
So, if he pursued Martin after the police told him not to, how was he 'standing his ground'? How can he just get away with shooting an innocent kid?

There are also plenty of people making asses of themselves over this whole incident too, like Spike Lee tweeting what he thought was Zimmerman's address, and Newt Gingrich claiming that the president says it's okay to shoot white kids, and Giraldo Rivera blaming the hoodie, and countless frenzied-up people saying and doing all sorts of stupid outlandish shit. uff. so tiring.

[Autistic socialist]

congratulations.

(or, should I say מזל טוב?)

--
So, if he pursued Martin after the police told him not to, how was he 'standing his ground'? How can he just get away with shooting an innocent kid?

Trayvon in my opinion was standing his ground if he attacked Zimmerman due to Zimmerman had just approached him in pedo fashion! Will any of Zimmer's defenders put themselves in the shoes of a boy being approached by a strange adult!

[Oaktree]

What I was referring to when I talked about the law being problematic was the fact that, according to some of the sources in which I've read about this case, the laws regarding self-defense are written slightly differently in Florida than in most other states. Florida does not have a reasonable expectation of a person who feels they are in danger to try to get out of the dangerous situation. In Florida, you can shoot someone you think is going to cause you harm without trying to get away from the person trying to cause you harm. In other states, they expect killing in self-defense to be the last line of defense. In Florida, it can be the first.

[Autistic socialist]

What I was referring to when I talked about the law being problematic was the fact that, according to some of the sources in which I've read about this case, the laws regarding self-defense are written slightly differently in Florida than in most other states. Florida does not have a reasonable expectation of a person who feels they are in danger to try to get out of the dangerous situation. In Florida, you can shoot someone you think is going to cause you harm without trying to get away from the person trying to cause you harm. In other states, they expect killing in self-defense to be the last line of defense. In Florida, it can be the first.
True but the law saves lives... If Trayvon were alive and Zimmerman were dead the law would protect Trayvon because of the way Zimmerman had approached him, Zimmerman should not be protected from his own idiocy, and if there is not a law in Florida against the way Zimmerman approached Trayvon then Florida does not do enough to protect kids! :faceslap:

[Oaktree]

Except that getting out of the situation is generally the best way to make it out alive. When you go toe to toe with someone, you don't necessarily know whether that person is armed or not, so you could be in much more danger than you'd be in if you just tried to get away. The sad fact is that Trayvon took the best course of action in his situation by trying to lose Zimmerman, but it didn't save his life. That's because Zimmerman did everything he could to provoke a situation that he could use to build a weak defense for murder. He was intent on murdering Trayvon, and he was armed to do so, so he did so.

[Autistic socialist]

Except that getting out of the situation is generally the best way to make it out alive. When you go toe to toe with someone, you don't necessarily know whether that person is armed or not, so you could be in much more danger than you'd be in if you just tried to get away. The sad fact is that Trayvon took the best course of action in his situation by trying to lose Zimmerman, but it didn't save his life. That's because Zimmerman did everything he could to provoke a situation that he could use to build a weak defense for murder. He was intent on murdering Trayvon, and he was armed to do so, so he did so.
Yah and Zimmer will get away too I can tell. The media is turning against Trayvon!

[whiterider]

Regarding Israel's extradition policy - when talking about law, always cite a primary source; that is, either legislation or a court case. If you can't cite a primary source, cite a secondary one specifically, 'cause I see nothing about extradition on the page you linked to. :)

I'm not sure what about Zimmerman's behaviour was 'pedo style'. Not that I condone it, of course - but following someone could mean any number of things. It could indeed mean that the follower intends to assault the other person. It could mean they happen to be going in the same direction. It could mean they want to ask directions. It could mean they're a paranoid wannabe cop who presumes the other person is going to commit a crime. I realise this point doesn't relate specifically to Zimmerman, but, well, if we propogate the assumption that rapists and other sexual offenders can be identified by obvious, overtly creepy behaviour, all we achieve is blinding people to the reality that, actually, most creepy people aren't sex offenders, and many sex offenders don't come across as creepy at all. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

I haven't read this 'stand your ground' law - I intended to, but work kinda got on top of me. However, I am struggling to understand how it could possibly be being applied correctly. I saw an interview in which one of the police officers stated that they couldn't arrest Zimmerman because his actions are covered by this law. That cannot be right. Whether or not Zimmerman's actions were within the scope of this stand your ground law cannot be for the police to decide - that is what the court, the jury, is for.
The ordinary defence of self-defence must be tried in court. The reasoning is - did you do it? Yes. Were you criminally responsible (aka not a minor nor insane)? Yes. Was there a justification or defence for your behaviour? Yes - self-defence. This is not something that can be pre-determined by the police; if it were, we could just lock people up for life as soon as they're formally charged, and screw the judicial process.

[Autistic socialist]

Regarding Israel's extradition policy - when talking about law, always cite a primary source; that is, either legislation or a court case. If you can't cite a primary source, cite a secondary one specifically, 'cause I see nothing about extradition on the page you linked to. http://www.jweekly.com/article/full/7719/israel-extradition-law-offers-help-to-alleged-criminals/ I thoght it was common knowledge...

I'm not sure what about Zimmerman's behaviour was 'pedo style'. Not that I condone it, of course - but following someone could mean any number of things. It could indeed mean that the follower intends to assault the other person. It could mean they happen to be going in the same direction. It could mean they want to ask directions. It could mean they're a paranoid wannabe cop who presumes the other person is going to commit a crime. I realise this point doesn't relate specifically to Zimmerman, but, well, if we propogate the assumption that rapists and other sexual offenders can be identified by obvious, overtly creepy behaviour, all we achieve is blinding people to the reality that, actually, most creepy people aren't sex offenders, and many sex offenders don't come across as creepy at all. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

He watchs the kid from the car, like a pedo, he gets out of the car and follows the kid like a pedo, he treatens the kid, like a pedo. Is Trayvon suppose to have thought it was anything else! That is the standard pedo thing to do from what I was educated in school!
I haven't read this 'stand your ground' law - I intended to, but work kinda got on top of me. However, I am struggling to understand how it could possibly be being applied correctly. I saw an interview in which one of the police officers stated that they couldn't arrest Zimmerman because his actions are covered by this law. That cannot be right. Whether or not Zimmerman's actions were within the scope of this stand your ground law cannot be for the police to decide - that is what the court, the jury, is for.
Actually the person alive is supposed to have a reason more credible then the person dead for the fight could possibly have! The pedo thing was a example of what Trayvon thought was probably happening!
The ordinary defence of self-defence must be tried in court. The reasoning is - did you do it? Yes. Were you criminally responsible (aka not a minor nor insane)? Yes. Was there a justification or defence for your behaviour? Yes - self-defence. This is not something that can be pre-determined by the police; if it were, we could just lock people up for life as soon as they're formally charged, and screw the judicial process.
This is not how the law is supposed to work! Your gun is supposed to be taken and you are supposed to be investigated over the course of a month!

Sorry if I am not doing this right I am new to debate on this forum!

[RoseCity]

http://www.jweekly.com/article/full/7719/israel-extradition-law-offers-help-to-alleged-criminals/ I thought it was common knowledge...

The article says that Israel extradited people who fled there, claiming citizenship under Right of Return after committing a crime.
It doesn't extradite people who are already citizens which George Zimmerman is not.

[Bodhie]

Please don't drag the Jewish Peoples into this Mix . If he run off to Zimbabwe it isn't because someone is helping him . But because the Law that is supposed to tie him down isn't working as it should be .

And if you really care for this case , then you may want to take a second and sign a petition . There was one online but I cannot find it . It got replaced by this Article here (http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/17/2700249/shooter-of-trayvon-martin-a-habitual.html)

[whiterider]

Ok, but the Law of Return confers citizenship on family members of jews after they have immigrated into Israel. George Zimmerman has not done so, so he's not covered by the Law of Return.

As for not extraditing to the US - many countries hold the same view. Extraditing a person to a country whch still has the death penalty is always sticky politically, and it's often easier not to.

The gun should indeed be confiscated as evidence; but after that, unless Zimmerman is found guilty by a court of murder or unlawul killing, he has the right to keep the gun. But yes, an investigation should be underway, Zimmerman should be under arrest; I still haven't seen a credible explanation of why he's not.

[Autistic socialist]

The article says that Israel extradited people who fled there, claiming citizenship under Right of Return after committing a crime.
It doesn't extradite people who are already citizens which George Zimmerman is not.
Trust me as long as he has a Jewish Parent he is eligible!

Eligibility requirements
Those who emigrate to Israel under the Law of Return are immediately entitled to citizenship. However, differences of opinion have arisen as to whether a person who claims citizenship under the Law of Return should be automatically registered as "Jewish" for census purposes. According to the halakhic definition, a person is Jewish if his or her mother is Jewish, or if he or she converts to Judaism. Orthodox Jews do not recognize conversions performed by Reform or Conservative Judaism. However, the Law provides that any Jew regardless of affiliation may migrate to Israel and claim citizenship.
Originally, the Law of Return was restricted to Jews only. A 1970 amendment, however, stated that, "The rights of a Jew under this Law and the rights of an oleh under the Nationality Law... are also vested in a child and a grandchild of a Jew, the spouse of a Jew, the spouse of a child of a Jew and the spouse of a grandchild of a Jew."
A Jew can be excluded from Israeli citizenship under the Law of Return if he or she is considered to be dangerous to the welfare of the State of Israel. Jews who have a past that involves a serious crime, such as murder, or who are fugitives in another country for any felony (unless they are persecution victims) can be denied the right of return, (e.g. Meyer Lansky, Victor Vancier).[3] The Law of Return also excludes any "person who has been a Jew and has voluntarily changed his religion."
Wiki

Although according to some reports he is Jewish by adoption so maybe I am wrong and he is not eligible. If they can get him made a citizen before he is charged, which he is not, then he will be gone.
Avrohom Mondrowitz was investigated by the New York Police Department in the 1980s and was indicted for sex crimes against four boys in Brooklyn, N.Y., but fled to Israel before he could be arrested.http://theunorthodoxjew.blogspot.com/2007/11/wholl-rid-us-of-pedophile-rabbis-their.html
See he can get away and even though there is a law to extradite people back to America it only applies to rapist.
I am not dragging the Jews into this I am only talking about the role of the suspect's ancestry.

But so you know I am an anti-Zionist and talk about Israel a lot! I am not a Jew hater though! I actually prefer Young Reform and Conservative Jewish Men as a bisexual.

[Autistic socialist]

Please don't drag the Jewish Peoples into this Mix . If he run off to Zimbabwe it isn't because someone is helping him . But because the Law that is supposed to tie him down isn't working as it should be .

And if you really care for this case , then you may want to take a second and sign a petition . There was one online but I cannot find it . It got replaced by this Article here (http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/17/2700249/shooter-of-trayvon-martin-a-habitual.html)
Did like it's going to do anything... Trust me the media if he can't escape first will sabotage this case like the Duke Case were the fore white boys raped the black GO-GO Girl! I've seen this before... Unless the president is truly going to step in nothing will happen!

[Mistermook]

Why should we trust you? It's a serious question. If you think we should, you should make a case why we should instead of simply stating that we should. Otherwise I'm disinclined to trust you anymore than I'd blindly trust anyone who said such a nonsense thing. In fact, saying "trust me" is pretty much a clear indicator that the person declaring it isn't actually trustworthy. In most circumstances you've really damaged your authority on all accounts by asking for trust rather than earning it.

Did like it's going to do anything... Trust me the media if he can't escape first will sabotage this case like the Duke Case were the fore white boys raped the black GO-GO Girl! I've seen this before... Unless the president is truly going to step in nothing will happen!
You realize there was no rape that happened in the "Duke rape case" right? The prosecutor went to prison, in fact, for pushing the "rape case" that never happened?

The situations (again) aren't anything like each other. We know what is normally a crime occurred here because we have a dead body. The Duke case was clearly prosecutor misconduct. In Florida the issue is whether or not the law was inappropriately applied, whether there is a side-issue of racism involved (which isn't a criminal issue, but it's definitely a social one) and whether or not the law itself is just.

[Autistic socialist]

Why should we trust you? It's a serious question. If you think we should, you should make a case why we should instead of simply stating that we should. Otherwise I'm disinclined to trust you anymore than I'd blindly trust anyone who said such a nonsense thing. In fact, saying "trust me" is pretty much a clear indicator that the person declaring it isn't actually trustworthy in most circumstances you've really damaged your authority on all accounts by asking for trust rather than earning it.


You realize there was no rape that happened in the "Duke rape case" right? The prosecutor went to prison, in fact, for pushing the "rape case" that never happened?

The situations (again) aren't anything like each other. We know what is normally a crime occurred here because we have a dead body. The Duke case was clearly prosecutor misconduct. In Florida the issue is whether or not the law was inappropriately applied, whether there is a side-issue of racism involved (which isn't a criminal issue, but it's definitely a social one) and whether or not the law itself is just.
I can tell you it was sabotaged I will get a vid proving it in time! When a friend who was also on top of it gives it to me!

[Mistermook]

Will that go with your UFO's are REAL(!!!) proof, CIA mind control, or earthquake rays? How about we toss in a Zionist conspiracy and you can argue from the personal experience you had in a cab that Obama's actually Arsenio Hall in disguise?

[SuicidiaParasidia]

I can tell you it was sabotaged I will get a vid proving it in time! When a friend who was also on top of it gives it to me!

and i can tell you that the sky is purple, its just that nobody but me sees it for what it really is.

....do you understand now how "i can tell you" means pretty much diddly squat in terms of argument material? i still see no video from you.

as for the case itself.... i think its one of the few situations that are pretty cut and dry. it reminds me a lot of the occasional "youth(s) kill homeless man because they think he wont be missed" cases that pop up now and then.

btw, mistermook. ufo's are real. ):

[kattenijin]

...that Obama's actually Arsenio Hall in disguise?

Well... Bill Cosby actually. Now for some Jello pudding!

[whiterider]

Not sure how I missed this before, but:
Those who emigrate to Israel under the Law of Return are immediately entitled to citizenship.
[...]
Originally, the Law of Return was restricted to Jews only. A 1970 amendment, however, stated that, "The rights of a Jew under this Law and the rights of an oleh under the Nationality Law... are also vested in a child and a grandchild of a Jew, the spouse of a Jew, the spouse of a child of a Jew and the spouse of a grandchild of a Jew."
So, we can break this law down thus:

IF: (A) A person is Jewish or has a Jewish parent, grandparent, spouse, parent-in-law, or grandparent-in-law(?)
AND: (B) That person has emigrated to Israel

THEN: (C)That person is entitled to Israeli citizenship, and the protections that accompany it.

A is true of Zimmerman. B is not true. Therefore C is not true.

They really should teach these methods in school, I still don't understand why they don't.

[pinketamine]

Whiterider, I was taught that in philosophy class, loved it.

[whiterider]

Huh, I took philosophy at 6th form college, but didn't learn rule analysis until the first year of my law bachelor. Good to know some schools are doing it right :D .