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gazania
16th Jul 2012, 2:19 PM
When it comes time to start up my business district in my newest neighborhood, I would like to delete Bluewater Village and start my own district.

Just want to make sure ... unlike the Downtown area, which had graves in it, as far as anyone knows, Bluewater does NOT have any urns or tombstones ... correct? I certainly don't want to start the new neighborhood (naturally, I would not enter it ... just start it, delete it, replace it in one swoop) and found out I made a mistake similar to the one I made in my old one, where I deleted the Downtown!

Thanks!

Bellasaurus
16th Jul 2012, 3:58 PM
You have to make sure that there are no owned businesses, sims, or graves/urns left before deleting. As much as I can remember there are quite a few families that are already in Bluewater, so you'd have to move them all to the simbin first, after selling off all owned businesses (Malcolm Langraab, Florence Delarosa, the Jaquets, and one or two others have businesses). When I deleted my subhoods I got rid of all the sims by turning them into townies. I even bulldozed their houses afterwards (of course, checking for urns etc - I don't think there were any but don't take my word for it).

Of course, if you haven't added Bluewater to your main hood yet, just don't. Choose the option to create your own and you won't ever have to worry about it. Having written that I'm now not sure if it comes preattached. I can't remember, but someone else will know!

TheDeadSim
16th Jul 2012, 4:17 PM
I don't want to go off topic but what is the problem with urns and deleting neighbourhoods? Just thought I would ask so I don't make a similar mistake if I do something like this in future.

FranH
16th Jul 2012, 4:36 PM
The problem with deleting tombstones and sometimes entire neighborhoods (or moving them) is that both can cause corruption in your game.
At first, nothing visible will happen, and then little by little, strange things keep happening until the day you can't play it anymore, and you have to delete that neighborhood and probably do a complete wipe of your game.

That's why, and it's why so many people do not play the premade neighborhoods, instead preferring to get the 'clean and empty' templates from other places.

It's easier to create your own neighborhood without so many inherent problems. If you want more information, there's a bunch of threads dedicated to that cause. Use the search button and I'm sure you'll find what you'll need if you want to do it the 'hard' but more reliable way.

Peni Griffin
16th Jul 2012, 4:46 PM
Bluewater is not pre-attached; you have to make a conscious decision to use it, just like with Downtown, the universities, and the vacation hoods.

Deleting a neighborhood is not a problem, per se. The problem is deleting sims and/or moving occupied lots to the housing bin, which leaves crap code floating around to attach itself to other sims and destroy your neighborhood in a burning flame of fire. Urns and tombstones count as sims for these purposes. Deleting an owned business also confuses the programming; presumably deleting a vacation hood with owned lots in it does, too.

If you already have Bluewater Village attached, you should probably go into each household and business while it's occupied and make sure you sell all the businesses and put any tombstones and urns (I'm not aware of any, but I don't play Bluewater) into inventory before moving the household to the family bin. If you haven't attached it, just create a custom one, unless you want the Bluewater Village sims.

If you want some, but not all, of the Bluewater Village sims, and don't want all the hassle of checking the households, attach Bluewater to a neighborhood you'll never play (perhaps a test neighborhood), extract the sims you want in SimPE, copy their stats from the same source, and rebuild them in CAS.

maxon
16th Jul 2012, 6:05 PM
I thought if you deleted a neighbourhood with resident sims, they just get dumped in the sim bin. I'm pretty sure that's right. OTOH, deleting a neighbourhood with gravestones will frag the dead sim files and that's a bad thing.

And FranH, try not to overstate. If a neighbourhood becomes corrupted, the solution is usually to delete the neighbourhood, not an entire game reset (let alone a reinstall). And the other thing to say is that corruption doesn't always eat away little by little, sometimes it takes a hell of a big bite and fuxxors your neighbourhood immediately. Corruption is bad, m'kay, but not catching for other neighbourhoods.

Is Bluewater already attached Gazania?

gazania
16th Jul 2012, 6:50 PM
This is actually my second incarnation of this neighborhood. It is a custom one. The first time, I did another "oops" (not a corruptible "oops" ... nothing harmful ... just a stupid "oops"). I looked around, didn't see anything that could fix my blunder, and reset the neighborhood. I haven't even touched Bluewater in the second version... I have the game's Downtown and Uni already (decided to go with a Maxis Uni this time). Stupid me deleted from the game screen, though ... not the files. (That's what I get from doing this half-asleep!) But since this is a custom neighborhood, I don't think that would matter as much. Could be wrong.

What I saw happen with that first incarnation was that Malcolm L, the Tinkers, and a whole bunch of other "core" playables wound up in the Sim Bin. I'm not sure if their businesses liquidated, though.I didn't think of that! I saw that Malcolm had more than enough money to move pretty much anywhere he wanted.

Actually, the last couple of neighborhoods I reset, I haven't even added Bluewater. It's probably the least favorite of my neighborhoods. I was in the mood for a little Malcolm mischief this time around, though, and was in the mood to get him into the game.

Since adding Bluewater dumps those extra Sims in there, I can always just simply add a second Downtown and make THAT the shopping district, I suppose. Then try to recreate a Malcolm clone in Body Shop (that way, I can re-use him in other neighborhoods; usually, I go the lazy route and use CAS). I might do just that. EA dumps ENOUGH Sims in my game! (No, I don't use clean templates. Probably should try it at least once. Maybe the next reset.)

Anyway, attaching a shopping district via the Downtown and making a Malcolm clone (and fixing the eyes, eyebrows and nose a little in the process) might be the way to go. I have an empty lot where I move Sims I want to money-cheat. Do that, then move him to a mansion I have already prepared. That way, there shouldn't be any urn/tombstone/business issues.

maxon
16th Jul 2012, 10:26 PM
I'm not sure what you are saying - you can't attach a shopping district via the Downtown. It always attaches to the main hood. You raise a good point though - I am not at all sure what happens to owned businesses if you delete a sub-hood. To make sure, I'd sell them off first. I am not too clear of how OFB works exactly. Probably because I wasn't too interested in it at the time the EP was released. Others might know better about that.

gazania
16th Jul 2012, 10:42 PM
I meant that rather than use Bluewater, I could simply make a second Downtown and treat that LIKE a shopping center. It wouldn't actually be a shopping center, but it might be fine enough for me to place my stores, and I won't have to deal with Bluewater businesses and Sims.

I figured that I might as well not take chances. Either play Bluewater, sell all Bluewater businesses, get rid of the main hood, and make a second shopping center (but then I'll get a whole bunch of Sims in the Sim Bin, and I'm not sure if businesses automatically get sold), or make a "Fake" shopping center by making a second Downtown. Not horrible choices.

Or go the empty template route ... but I don't know if I have enough time to make my own townies.

I certainly hope that Uni doesn't have tombstones, urns, businesses, etc.! I already got rid of a default Uni and made my own on another neighborhood.

But it makes me wonder. In my first incarnation of this neighborhood, I did notice that Malcolm kept a whole lot of money. I hope to reset my Pleasantview this year. (It's going on three years, and I now like to reset neighborhoods at intervals, since I seem to be so good at screwing SOMETHING up! :) ) I should do a "fake" reset, add Bluewater, and see how much money Malcolm and the others have. Then reset the neighborhood a second time, add/delete Bluewater so that the Sims wind up in my Sim Bin, and see if there's an increase. If so, it means the businesses automatically do get sold, and things will probably be hunky dory.

However, I probably couldn't do that for quite a while.

Peni Griffin
16th Jul 2012, 11:05 PM
University was the first EP and it's full of young people who can't own their own businesses because owned businesses didn't exist when they were created. No urns, tombstones, business, or anything like that - you can add and delete them with impunity if you want all those sims in the same University.

beafish123
16th Jul 2012, 11:32 PM
I'm slightly confused as to why you would need to make an extra downtown as your shopping district- couldn't you just make a custom shopping district?

May93
17th Jul 2012, 12:09 AM
Is there actually any difference between a downtown and a shopping district?

TortureTheNannies
17th Jul 2012, 12:48 AM
Downtown is Nightlife code I've seen Mrs Crumplebottom mess up downtown often. Shopping has different buildings. it's able to use nightlife code because that's OFB, but I don't know if it does.

Mootilda
17th Jul 2012, 12:53 AM
NPCs like Mrs. Crumplebottom, Diva, and vampires hang out downtown and there is special code for inviting someone Downtown.

A shopping district has no special code that I know of... it's just an addition to your neighborhood.

gazania
17th Jul 2012, 1:15 AM
I'm slightly confused as to why you would need to make an extra downtown as your shopping district- couldn't you just make a custom shopping district?

When I did that and deleted the original shopping district (because I'm not THAT into shopping!) on my "oops" neighborhood, I wound up with a whole bunch of Sims in my Sim Bin, which inspired the original question. :) If I deleted the default shopping neighborhood, and played the custom, would that cause Very Bad Things like deleting the Downtown without making provisions for the graves there?

So far ... I'm not sure if anyone is 100% certain, and I'm not in the mood for many of the "principals" in Bluewater to show up in the Sim Bin again, so simply making a second Downtown and treating it as a shopping district may be an answer. I've had a second Downtown in the past, and don't recall anything unusual happening because of that (knocks wood).

Peni Griffin
17th Jul 2012, 2:07 AM
But there is no default shopping district; not that the game will force on you. When you go to the screen to add a shopping district, just click the blank instead of Bluewater. Just as, if you want a custom downtown, you don't click the downtown shown, but the blank next to it.

Isn't that how it works? I've only added one downtown, a university, and the vacation hoods, but it should all work the same. Every time I've added a subhood, I got a range of squares, premade hoods or blanks, for which I'd choose the terrain etc. just as for the main hood.

Mootilda
17th Jul 2012, 2:11 AM
If you have the standard subhood templates, then adding a custom subhood will add townies for that subhood. If you don't want additional townies, you'll have to install empty templates for each subhood type that you add.

gazania
17th Jul 2012, 5:36 AM
In the past, if I wanted to load a custom shopping district, downtown, uni, etc., I always had to add the default one first, then add the second neighborhood, then delete the default. I do see the extra squares to start a second/custom neighborhood, but only after I put the default in the game before that. No shortcuts, as far as I can see.

In the case of Bluewater, when I started up the default (but did not play it), then started the second neighborhood and deleted the default, I got a bunch of Sims in the Sim Bin. I do not believe it's as obvious with Uni or Downtown.

I remember post after post about custom subhoods in the beginning on various boards. People were bummed out that in order to set up a custom subneighborhood, they had to load the default one first.

But my eyes and mind could be playing tricks on me. I'll take another look.

maxon
17th Jul 2012, 11:52 AM
University was the first EP and it's full of young people who can't own their own businesses because owned businesses didn't exist when they were created. No urns, tombstones, business, or anything like that - you can add and delete them with impunity if you want all those sims in the same University.
Just so you know: when you add a new university to a hood, if you DON'T have empty templates, the game will add 50 students each time regardless. It's not a cost free activity. Having said that, it's only the first time that all the other NPCs get added (you know, the professors, cheerleaders, mascots and so on).

I'm slightly confused as to why you would need to make an extra downtown as your shopping district- couldn't you just make a custom shopping district?
Yeah, I wondered that too.

Edit:
In the past, if I wanted to load a custom shopping district, downtown, uni, etc., I always had to add the default one first, then add the second neighborhood, then delete the default. I do see the extra squares to start a second/custom neighborhood, but only after I put the default in the game before that. No shortcuts, as far as I can see.
...
But my eyes and mind could be playing tricks on me. I'll take another look.
This is wrong Gazania - you can add a custom shopping district without adding Bluewater first. Same with all the other default sub-hoods. The game tries to encourage you to add the default by use of the Big Button but you really don't have to have it.

gazania
17th Jul 2012, 12:25 PM
Y'know, after all these years, I never even NOTICED that silly little icon? I wouldn't be surprised if others didn't either, years ago. I do remember that stink about defaults .... when said stink came up was a good question. (Obviously a long time ago!) While it makes me feel a little relieved that someone else didn't notice the icon back then either (otherwise, no stink), it does make me feel somewhat silly. But perhaps I'm a slightly more knowledgeable fool. Thanks to those who corrected my error! (And I suppose I SHOULD find that manual someplace. That info was probably was there all along. Oh, well. If I'm going to make a fool of myself, I might as well do it in a big way!)

I suppose I could attach that second Downtown and use it as a shopping district if I don't want those Bluewater Sims, though, so the idea still isn't that outlandish. But unless I truly have a strong animosity against the Tinkers, that probably is a small point, at best. EA will generate clerks, etc. to populate the new neighborhood, unless I purposely circumvent that.

Well, it's good to see that I can simply start my own custom subhood without the extra step, though I'm still curious about the Downtown graves and the Shopping District businesses. After all, one thing we learned is just because EA LETS you do it doesn't mean it's a good idea (cringes at Sim Bin). However, I would think that no default business district means no shops in the first place, so ... no problem? (Downtown is a bit different, I guess. I just added a custom Downtown in my test neighborhood, and still see dead Tricous all over the place in Sim PE! I guess they are in an unmarked cemetery, with unmarked graves!)

Sounds logical ... but while I do enjoy this game, it doesn't mean that EA is logical! :)

maxon
17th Jul 2012, 2:21 PM
<hugs gazania> we all miss stuff.

It's an odd thing with the Tricous. Even if you add a custom Downtown, you still get the sim files for them. There is no graveyard though you can resurrect them if you use the batbox to retrieve the gravestones. Fortunately, they are classed as missing and not ripped.

Ask me another one about what gets put in custom neighbourhoods - I know the answers to those questions.

gazania
17th Jul 2012, 4:45 PM
Well, if I messed up again with the Downtown, at least it's in a TEST neighborhood. But yes ... those Tricous are there. Quite. Dead as usual.

Now I wonder about those businesses, though. Do THEY get "sold" if you put a custom district in there? I'm wondering if I have a (relatively) untouched Malcolm somewhere else. If I attach a custom district, do the numbers change in the custom district? If so, that's the answer to our quesiton.

Let me check. I usually do play him, though, when I add a Bluewater. I make him kind of JR Ewinig-ish. Nasty piece of work. And if I add the custom only to my new neighborhood, which seems to be OK, I will have TWO Malcolms. I made a (somewhat better-looking, IMO) "twin", changing the name slightly (Landergrab, I think). It can sound like something out of a soap opera if I have TWO "Malcolms"!



Note ... Nope. I've either deleted the neighborhood or played him already. But if I add a custom shopping district, I can always report how much income the guy in the bin has, and perhaps someone with a Bluewater AND an unplayed Malcolm can fill in the blanks. Or I can see if I have another shop-owner (The Tinkers, perhaps) we can use as a comparison. I don't play the TInker business (toys, I believe), though Mr. Tinker has been a bit naughty at times. He hasn't spent money on his vices, however.

maxon
17th Jul 2012, 5:36 PM
Adding a custom shopping district should add nothing to your neighbourhood in terms of sim files. If you add Bluewater though, you will get the Bluewater residents. Adding a custom shopping district doesn't generate any NPCs (though you will get OFB NPCs on creating the neighbourhood in the first place or as you play). Adding a downtown always adds the Tricous no matter what sort it is.

gazania
17th Jul 2012, 9:24 PM
Adding a custom shopping district should add nothing to your neighbourhood in terms of sim files. If you add Bluewater though, you will get the Bluewater residents. Adding a custom shopping district doesn't generate any NPCs (though you will get OFB NPCs on creating the neighbourhood in the first place or as you play). Adding a downtown always adds the Tricous no matter what sort it is.

Yep. You're right. My Malcolm clone is still alone ... and lovin' every minute of it! :0

I forgot that the reason why I had a bunch of Bluewaterans in my Sim Bin was because I had deleted Bluewater in the now-aptly-named "oops" neighborhood.

Still too bad. I should have written down the amount of money at least a couple of families had to see if EA automatically sold the businesses.