An Alien Forest

[Lance]

I'm keen on theorycraft questions today. Here goes another one.
You land on an alien planet. You meet what appears to be a living creature. How do you know if it's conscious?
I've read that question in a book when I was a kid. It has been bothering me ever since. Every time I think I know the answer, someone else criticizes it into dust.
Of note, I'm not talking of philosophical view on consiousness here or biological researches of brain activity. I'm asking what you would do in the situation described.

[VerDeTerre]

I'm curious what your answer was that got dusted. Have you refined it since?

There are scientifically agreed upon definitions of "life". Are there such definitions for "conscious"? And by "conscious", do you mean awake or reasoning and self-aware?

[Lance]

Reasoning and self-aware, or course.

By the way, if someone can remember the book I've got this question from, I'd be thankful.

[Lance]

I'd try to give the creature my photo, assuming it has the capacity to perceive two-dimensional images.

[haricots]

"How do you know if it's 'Reasoning and self-aware'?"
Er...
Try to communicate, with body language, or anything, while holding laser gun.

[Lance]

You wave at it. At the very best, it starts making weird noises. So?

[jhd1189]

Both of these ideas assume that the creature has the sense of sight, which shouldn't be a requirement for consciousness. Not that I have a better answer... I'm stumped. :|

Everything I can think of keeps coming back to the senses that we already use. Those senses make sense on Earth, but is there any guarantee that they would make sense in the context of the lifeforms on this hypothetical planet? I'm just curious, how did the people who criticized your answer say that they would do it?

[SimsLover50]

One of the tests used to figure out self awareness is whether a creature can see itself and recognize itself in a reflection. Only certain creatures such as humans can.

I would say that chances are that alien life would mostly be un-sentinent and animal in nature. Why? Because most creatures wouldn't need to evolve higher intelligence to get by. That seems to be somewhat rare. So while it is possible, it is unlikely that the first random creature you meet in sentinent.

[Lance]

SimsLover50, so you would draw your computer out of the pocket and estimate the chance of the creature being sentient. That's a good answer, really.

Mirror test is unreliable. It's going to show you that your dog is more sentient than a human from some lost desert tribe.

[VerDeTerre]

SimsLover50, so you would draw your computer out of the pocket and estimate the chance of the creature being sentient. That's a good answer, really.

Mirror test is unreliable. It's going to show you that your dog is more sentient than a human from some lost desert tribe. Huh? Did you want us to try to figure it out or not? Or is this a forum for attack?

[Oaktree]

SimsLover50, so you would draw your computer out of the pocket and estimate the chance of the creature being sentient. That's a good answer, really.

Mirror test is unreliable. It's going to show you that your dog is more sentient than a human from some lost desert tribe.

Actually, dogs don't usually pass the mirror tests, and humans are most likely capable of learning what a mirror is, even if they've never seen one. There's no guarantee that humans won't come up with superstitious explanations for the mirror, but they will understand that it is reflecting what appears in front of it.

It is commonly thought that mathematics are the most basic language that exists. Some degree of math seems likely to be useful to the survival of pretty much any organism with a higher degree of awareness, even if it's just arithmetic. So I would probably try to convey a simple equation like 1+1=2 and see if the organism responds in kind. If it does, it probably has humanlike intelligence. If it doesn't, there is still no guarantee that it isn't sapient.

[opiumgirl]

Saying I land on an alien planet, I see a creature.
how do I know if it is sentient?
I will observe, for how ever long I feel is required, until I decide, Ok, you are a cow/sheep, filing it as wild life and move on.

Seriously, I can't think of any meaningful thing you can do to establish communication, seeing I failed at math so completely it is not funny.
Also I have my doubts if we would even recognize life on another planet. For some reason my brain keeps coming up with silicon life. Hard to identify.

I also think that the idea of human intelligence is sort of earth bound.
I get that most people mean human equivalent intelligence, but I really think that is way too narrow.
What if their evolution is so unlike ours that we think they are morons but actually that is not the case. of course vice versa

I wonder if we can ever communicate. Ever since Star Wars I have had a yearning to hang out in space bars and chat up the locals. ;)

[crocobaura]

Actually, dogs don't usually pass the mirror tests, and humans are most likely capable of learning what a mirror is, even if they've never seen one. There's no guarantee that humans won't come up with superstitious explanations for the mirror, but they will understand that it is reflecting what appears in front of it.



I think most animals can and will at some point understand what a mirror is and that the image they see back is just their own reflection. I've seen it with a number of young cats who initially hiss or try to interract with their own reflection then after a short while realize that it's just a reflection and don't bother again, regardless of the mirror their image reflects in.

[paksetti]

Get back on the space ship. Problem solved.

[haricots]

We cannot assume that the alien has five senses, huh?

One of the tests used to figure out self awareness is whether a creature can see itself and recognize itself in a reflection. Only certain creatures such as humans can.
Like what I said before, we cannot assume that the alien has sight-sense. So, that cannot make us know if the alien is self-aware or not.

You wave at it. At the very best, it starts making weird noises. So?
Try another simple communication. When it starts attacking, shot it with laser gun, then go away. Back in earth, never tell anyone, and live the life of a happy stupid boy.

[KKiryu007Joker]

What do I do if I meet an alien? I RUN AWAY AND GET LANCE TO SHAKE its hand! Shake it Lance shake it! You know nothing about this creature, what if it's like a snake and it wants peace. Jeez leave em' alone, you might not have time for conjecture.

[simbalena]

I would present it with multiple puzzles requiring various types of reasoning and decision making skills. Something to test whether it could select the option which provided the best outcome for it's own well being, something to test whether it could determine the best risk to take based on calculating probability, etc.

[Tempscire]

What do I do if I meet an alien? I RUN AWAY AND GET LANCE TO SHAKE its hand! Shake it Lance shake it!
Inadvertently (http://futuresaurus.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/alien-hands-far-side.jpg), Lance dooms the entire earth to annihilation when, in an attempt to be friendly, he seizes their leader by the head and shakes vigorously.

[VerDeTerre]

Thanks so much for that Tempscire: I literally laughed out loud!

[SimsLover50]

We cannot assume that the alien has five senses, huh?


Like what I said before, we cannot assume that the alien has sight-sense. So, that cannot make us know if the alien is self-aware or not..

No we can't. But we can always test it. No harm in trying.

[Lance]

It is commonly thought that mathematics are the most basic language that exists. Some degree of math seems likely to be useful to the survival of pretty much any organism with a higher degree of awareness, even if it's just arithmetic. So I would probably try to convey a simple equation like 1+1=2 and see if the organism responds in kind. If it does, it probably has humanlike intelligence. If it doesn't, there is still no guarantee that it isn't sapient.Well, that's a good idea, but how do you show that equation to the organism? If you go to a primitive tribe and start waving your fingers they'll probably think you're casting some bad magics. :)
What do I do if I meet an alien? I RUN AWAY AND GET LANCE TO SHAKE its hand! Shake it Lance shake it! You know nothing about this creature, what if it's like a snake and it wants peace. Jeez leave em' alone, you might not have time for conjecture.I'd totally do it. Nothing to laugh about. But, if anything happens, people back at the ship could probably blame you for my death...

[haricots]

No we can't. But we can always test it. No harm in trying.
Yeah, no harm. Except when the alien harm me. It's considered 'harm in trying'.

[Oaktree]

Well, that's a good idea, but how do you show that equation to the organism? If you go to a primitive tribe and start waving your fingers they'll probably think you're casting some bad magics. :)

I was thinking that I'd either draw in the dirt or manipulate some kind of loose object lying around, like small rocks.