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Lab Assistant
#51 Old 22nd Apr 2005 at 9:30 PM
And are the dots vertices?
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Lab Assistant
#52 Old 22nd Apr 2005 at 9:36 PM
I guess i can answer my own question...yes the dots are the vertices at least this is my understanding according to this definition of a Vertex....

In geometry, a vertex (Latin: whirl, whirlpool; plural vertices) is a corner of a polygon (where two sides meet) or of a polyhedron (where three or more faces and an equal number of edges meet).

In graph theory, a graph describes a set of connections between objects. Each object is called a node or vertex. The connections themselves are called edges or arcs.

In 3D computer graphics, a vertex is a point in 3D space with a particular location, usually given in terms of its x, y, and z coordinates. It is one of the fundamental structures in polygonal modelling: two vertices, taken together, can be used to define the endpoints of a line; three vertices can be used to define a planar triangle. Many people confuse vertices with vectors because they can be described with the same properties. They are, however, two completely different things.
Lab Assistant
#53 Old 22nd Apr 2005 at 9:59 PM Last edited by Suni : 22nd Apr 2005 at 10:25 PM.
Well why not post a definition of POLYGON also.....

A polygon (literally means many angles) is a closed planar path composed of a finite number of sequential line segments. The straight line segments that make up the polygon are called its sides or edges and the points where the sides meet are the polygon's vertices. If a polygon is simple, then its sides (and vertices) constitute the boundary of a polygonal region, and the term polygon sometimes also describes the interior of the polygonal region (the open area that this path encloses) or the union of both the region and its boundary.

And for anyone thats interested in more very good information about the nature and mechanics of Polygons and Vertices, here's a link to where i found this really great information... try a word search on the two words.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygon
Lab Assistant
#54 Old 22nd Apr 2005 at 10:12 PM Last edited by Suni : 22nd Apr 2005 at 10:31 PM.
Ok i think i got a little idea of what you all mean by using more texture as apposed to more polygons. In so many words.....

You take a model thats made in 3D....leave the interior hollow, meaning no lines and dots because you'll never see the interior in game, and cover the outside of the model with texture...sort of like covering it with a blanket?
Instructor
#55 Old 22nd Apr 2005 at 10:31 PM
well i feel stupid. i thought a polygon was 4 sides or more excluding triangles. i think the game renders triangles and not quads though, so now im thinking the difference in Milkshape and Max's polycount are triangles and quads because they both spit out different sums.

can anyone confirm this?
Warrior Gryphon
site owner
Original Poster
#56 Old 22nd Apr 2005 at 10:36 PM Last edited by Delphy : 22nd Apr 2005 at 11:19 PM. Reason: Cleaned up post and removed attachment
DirectX game engines use both a VertexBuffer and a polygon buffer. The polygon buffer is built using the VertexBuffer, but it's the vertices that are most important since the transforms and normals are on a per-vertex basis, as opposed to per polygon.

Hidden "faces" can be determined by 2 means: Firstly, those faces inside other faces that are outside of the cameras viewpoint. Secondly, faces with a normal pointing away from the camera.

The vast majority of game engines *do* cull backfaces becuase it speeds up rendering immensly. Theres no reason to leave it enabled. The only reason the game *would* render "hidden" polygons is if they aren't hidden - ie the normals are wrong.

GMDC meshes *do* have an actual polygon count thats very easy to calculate. It's the size of one of the lists in items3 divided by 3.

See my later post for an RCOL plugin that works on the latest SimPE Regards,
Delphy
Warrior Gryphon
site owner
Original Poster
#57 Old 22nd Apr 2005 at 10:37 PM
A polygon *can* be more than 3 sides, but yes Sims 2 renders triangles not quads.
Instructor
#58 Old 22nd Apr 2005 at 10:38 PM Last edited by thefuzmixman : 22nd Apr 2005 at 10:42 PM.
Quote: Originally posted by Brasstex
Just so everyone is clear here, vertex count is not all that important, and that's what my original problem with Maxis statement was. It's the face count that really matters. Some of my objects may have twice as many vertices as they do faces so that's no indication. As Miche has previously stated it's the faces that matter.

Brasstex


this makes more sense to me. What is harder to render? invisible coordinates or shaded faces? plus i thought maxis originally stated that it was 800 polygons that they were recommending as the limit. 800 vertices?

the colonial double bed by Maxis has over 5,000 polygons. Who knows how many vertex there are.


EDIT:

ah, ok i get it now sort of. thanks delphy.

xD
Lab Assistant
#59 Old 22nd Apr 2005 at 10:41 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Delphy
DirectX game engines use both a VertexBuffer and a polygon buffer. The polygon buffer is built using the VertexBuffer, but it's the vertices that are most important since the transforms and normals are on a per-vertex basis, as opposed to per polygon.


Ah. Hence why Maxis counts those instead of polygons. Thanks, Delphy.
Administrator of Loverat's Tea and Underpants
#60 Old 22nd Apr 2005 at 10:57 PM
My meaning when I mentioned "hidden faces" was simply faces the user should never see. The part of a bedframe that is covered by the mattress. The inside of a cabinet door that can not be opened. The bottom of an object that can only be placed on the floor. Faces like those, I removed from my meshes.
Warrior Gryphon
site owner
Original Poster
#61 Old 22nd Apr 2005 at 11:12 PM Last edited by Delphy : 22nd Apr 2005 at 11:14 PM.
I've just pulled down the latest CVS source code and modified the RCOL wrapper for the latest SimPE.

Extract http://forums.modthesims2.com/files/simpe.rcol.zip into your SimPE program folder (making sure to make a backup of the existing one), run SimPE and on the 3d view tab is a polygon count for the entire object.

Enjoy
Warrior Gryphon
site owner
Original Poster
#62 Old 22nd Apr 2005 at 11:16 PM
Quote: Originally posted by RGiles
My meaning when I mentioned "hidden faces" was simply faces the user should never see. The part of a bedframe that is covered by the mattress. The inside of a cabinet door that can not be opened. The bottom of an object that can only be placed on the floor. Faces like those, I removed from my meshes.


Ahh yup - totally useless! Complete waste of memory for the polygon and vertex buffers *and* the cpu power or gfx card power needed to transform these unseen polygons.

Story books are full of fairy tales, of Kings and Queens, and the bluest skies.
Lab Assistant
#63 Old 22nd Apr 2005 at 11:24 PM
I can't follow the technical stuff, let alone comment on it,but I do want to report that when I delete a mesh and its recolors from within the game, the game will sometimes crash. These aren't objects in use,either--when they are, the game simply won't let me delete them. I haven't tried deleting from Clean Installer this way.
Warrior Gryphon
site owner
Original Poster
#64 Old 22nd Apr 2005 at 11:26 PM
sabra, please post your issue in the help forums - lets try and keep this thread on the topic at hand.

Regards,
Delphy
Field Researcher
#65 Old 22nd Apr 2005 at 11:27 PM
I just tried the new RCOL wrapper, totally works! Thanks :D
Instructor
#66 Old 22nd Apr 2005 at 11:49 PM Last edited by Motoki : 23rd Apr 2005 at 12:14 AM.
I also want to thank you for the wrapper Delphy. Been wanting this for a long time.

Can I be a pain in the butt and ask if you can display the total vertex count (in decimal) right below where you put the poly count? I know you can get it in the other tab by adding up the counts on the various pieces and converting it from hex to decimal, but I think that's going to be somewhat obtuse for some people to figure out and since Maxis seems to be going by the vertex count I guess we should be looking at that too.

Thanks again!
Forum Resident
#67 Old 22nd Apr 2005 at 11:53 PM
Great thread. Thanks, Delphy et al for the information.

Motoki, any other sites you recognize that usually have items with high ploy counts would be much appreciated by all of us with EDD!

Could we have a beware thread devoted to just those high count sites/items? Maybe like a 'post to' sticky in the new mesh section? I'm wondering about ReflexSims.....a very prolific site--always new stuff there...

I'm wondering waht the 'normal' count is for hair meshes and clothing meshes. Seems there would be a 'standard' or 'notmal' range for these items that would tend to run a little higher than say a table or a couch. Is there a chart someplace we could reference to?

The plugin, Delphy, and the instructions from RG are priceless! Thank you so much!

Fast good. Slow bad.

Off to test new plugin....
Field Researcher
#68 Old 23rd Apr 2005 at 12:00 AM Last edited by CTNutmegger : 23rd Apr 2005 at 12:17 AM.
To clear it up a little more --

What is a Polygon?

It's a closed plane figure made up of several line segments that are joined together. The sides do not cross each other, and exactly two sides meet at every vertex.

Triangle = 3 sides, octogon = 8 sides, square = 4 sides, hexagon = 6 sides, etc, any closed shape made up of lines is a polygon, the vertex is where the lines meet.

Want more? www.math.com - Polygons

:howdy: Is your head swimming yet??

CT :D

Edited to add --

Just tried the new toy, works great, thanks Delphy!!!
Forum Resident
#69 Old 23rd Apr 2005 at 12:18 AM
Help.

Plugin went into plugin folder, v. 35. I opened a hair mesh. I can't find a 3d view tab...? I need the mesh extraction plugin too, don't I...hmmm...off to find it.....
Warrior Gryphon
site owner
Original Poster
#70 Old 23rd Apr 2005 at 12:20 AM
Motoki,

Ask and ye shall recieve. The latest zip (rcol plugin v 42071) contains total vertex count too)

Note this count is non-shared vertices.
Warrior Gryphon
site owner
Original Poster
#71 Old 23rd Apr 2005 at 12:21 AM
Mutantbunny,

Please re-read the instructions. It goes in the base SimPE folder *not* the Plugins folder
Instructor
#72 Old 23rd Apr 2005 at 12:23 AM
:bow: :bow2:
Forum Resident
#73 Old 23rd Apr 2005 at 12:27 AM Last edited by Mutantbunny : 23rd Apr 2005 at 12:51 AM.
Thanks Delphy....:P

EDIT: Yep. Works now. And it works well!

However, the next problem is, since most of the stuff seems to be running too high *heart breaking* I also need to pair up recolors with the meshes. No sense in leaving files I don't need. Not being a creator myself, I'm not at all sure how to do this. Any ideas?
Warrior Gryphon
site owner
Original Poster
#74 Old 23rd Apr 2005 at 12:28 AM
I'm currently working on a plugin for the Toolbox Scanner, so it'll list polygon counts for every file in your Downloads folder.

It's taking a little longer than I expected though as I have to re-write the base file package class too.
Instructor
#75 Old 23rd Apr 2005 at 12:36 AM
Oh my gosh, that would be SO awesome! You don't even know how many hours I spent checking over 1,000 meshes from each package file one by one. :o Not looking to do that again anytime soon if I can at all help it.
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