Converting clothes to different age groups

[Faylen]

Tiggerypum and I were discussing the confusion over age conversion on the other tutorial thread here, so I made this for you all in the hope that it will clear some things up. Please note that the only numbers I give you here are for conversions among Young Adults, Adults, and Elders, as these are the only conversions that will work without making entirely new meshes. Please don't ask about converting Children or Teens - it simply won't work.

This tutorial is designed to take you through age conversions step-by-step. You should have some experience with Body Shop already, so we’re skipping pictures for the first few steps. You fire up Body Shop, start a new project, pick the outfit, export it with a distinctive filename you’ll be able to find in Saved Sims, and then Import to game without changing anything. After you do this you will see, as in this image, that the outfit shows up twice in the same age group. Since this outfit is custom to start, you see both on the same screen. If you use a Maxis item, the outfit will show up at the beginning as custom as well as in its regular spot in Body Shop. When this is done, quit Body Shop.
http://thumbs.modthesims2.com/getimage.php?file=215678

From your start menu, go into My Documents/EA Games/The Sims 2/SavedSims.
http://thumbs.modthesims2.com/getimage.php?file=228068

If you have a lot of custom content, “Search” will come in very handy. And here you see why you gave your outfit a distinctive name.
http://thumbs.modthesims2.com/getimage.php?file=228069

Keep in mind, you need to have SimPE already installed so that when you double-click on the file name, it opens it in SimPE so you can edit it.

As soon as you double-click, this is the screen you will see. We’re going to be playing with only one little piece. You want to double click on “Property Set” from the top left list, then click the “Plugin View” tab below.

http://thumbs.modthesims2.com/getimage.php?file=365502

You will see a whole list now on the left. Click on age, and the numbers you need to change show up on the right. For adult, the number will be 0x00000008. Young Adult is 0x00000040. Elder is 0x00000010. You can change the outfit so it’s for one age group, or by ending the code with 48 (for adult/young adult) or 18 (for adult/elder) or 58 (for all three).

Other age groups have different skeleton sizes, and age conversions will not work properly. Clothes that are for a smaller skeleton will result in your sim’s head floating over a sliced-open neck. Clothes that are for a larger skeleton will result in a small head being swallowed by the neckline of the clothes.
http://thumbs.modthesims2.com/getimage.php?file=365492

When I look at this recolor, I can see that I already had the outfit available for 48 - which means young adult and adult. So now I want to make _this_ recolor available for elders also. I'm going to change the value to 10.

Now the outfit will show up – after we do a couple more things. First, you click on the “commit” button in the lower right.
http://thumbs.modthesims2.com/getimage.php?file=365494

If you’ve done everything right, then you’ll get the little “changes were committed” box. Click “OK”. Don’t exit yet. Select “Save” from your File menu.
http://thumbs.modthesims2.com/getimage.php?file=365493

[Faylen]

Now you’ll see a BAK file with that same filename that you just converted. That file is just a backup, and you can delete it when you are done. You should be able to fire up Body Shop and find the outfit in the new age group, and dress your sims in-game in that outfit.
http://thumbs.modthesims2.com/getimage.php?file=228097

And here it is as an elder outfit, as you can see in Body Shop.
http://thumbs.modthesims2.com/getimage.php?file=215695

Now you can go into your game and verify that it’s worked correctly. As you can see, our Young Adult, Adult, and Elder can all wear the same thing, and as long as you don’t leave out any steps, it can work for any other outfit.
http://thumbs.modthesims2.com/getimage.php?file=215697

In this example, I made an extra recolor just to convert that outfit to also be available for elder. If you are making a brand new recolor and would like to make it available for all ages, simply make your new recolor import it into the game and then set it to 58 - you only need one recolor file if it is your own work. (or 48 for young adult/adult or 18 for adult/elder)


ALSO, please note. Full body meshes are interchangable between ya/adult/elder - but tops and bottoms will only work for ya/adult. The elder has a different waistline and the tops/bottoms will not match other elder outfits. So elder conversion using this method is only good for full body meshes.

Editor Note: Reworked the tutorial to clear up some user confusion about BAK files and the recolor number changes. -- Tiggerypum 9/1/2006

[nova4708]

Thank you so much! This is exactly what I needed.

[wayunlucky13]

This so rocks!!! Thank you!

[saucyemma]

im so :S:S:Sconfussed! how do u make clothes do u have to download somwthing? help me plz

[HystericalParoxysm]

saucyemma, go back to the top of this page where it says Tutorials for Skinning & Clothing Recolouring. Click that. Read Faylen's clothing recolouring tutorials, starting with the first one. Explains what you need (Body Shop and a graphics editing program like Photoshop) and what to do.

[shtinky]

Faylen, I found a downloaded package where someone has used the number 58 to include young adult, adult and elder in the one package and wondered if you've tried it out. otherwise do you need to download two packages with 18 and 48 for YA/A/E.

[Faylen]

You know, this absolutely should not work. But it does. Go figure. I tested it, and the outfit showed in all three age groups, so go for it. Have a blast.

[shtinky]

I tested it and it seems to work fine for me too.
cheers

[Garand]

I too have found this useful, especailly when needing clothing for custom meshes that I've downloaded.

:llama: Little off topic, but simialr in nature:
I also used a similar trick and started converting for Genders as well. IT starting out making some male clothes work on females, suchas suits and tuxes, then wound up as in the attached image below..

The necks don't always match up, but It's hard to notice.

Anyway, Thanks for the info!

[tiggerypum]

Garand, I and many others quite notice when the necklines do not match up, which is why we do not recommend that change in this (or the gender) tutorial. Because as soon as we did, we'd have people saying 'there's something wrong at the neck'.

To change genders properly, you need to change the mesh, unless it's a child or toddler.

And 58 for young adult, adult and elder does and actually should work, it uses the same principle of adding the values together - add all of them and you get 58. The elder will not have the other body changes, but all three have the exact same neck positioning. The elders will still look a bit stooped over, because that's how maxis has them animate, but the slight changes in the body shape that happen from adult to elder won't be there (like saggy breasts, slightly wider hips, less muscular limbs). Probably for most of us, that matters little - some actually prefer their elder women to wear support bras ;)

[Chiaka]

ok. i followed all thesteps, and in body shop it does show up (the dress). my question is this, going from an elder to an adult, should they still have the elder body in bodyshop? what i mean is, the dress still looks like it is on an elder's body, but i changed the age in the SPE to adult.

[Faylen]

Yes, if you convert an elder clothing mesh to adult, then the adult is going to be shaped like the elder. The clothing mesh is laid over the body mesh. That's why most people would rather convert adult to elder rather than the other way around!

[Shadaliza]

Perfect tutorial, thanks :)

[alidana325]

I cant do it I don't get it! Can you PM me and help!?

[HystericalParoxysm]

alidana, it's all shown with pictures and arrows. If you don't get something, you need to tell WHAT you don't get. Exactly what step are you stuck on?

[alidana325]

When I hit plugin view which is on my bottom left, not top nothings there!

[HystericalParoxysm]

You have to make sure you actually have the Property Set selected before you go to plugin view, or you won't see anything in the plugin view window.

[alidana325]

I cant find the property set button!

[HystericalParoxysm]

It's not a button, alidana... In this pic, see the top arrow? First you'd click on the property set over in that left list, and then you need to click on it again in the right list (which there's only one item in) right above the arrow. Then when you go into Plugin View you should have something there.

[alidana325]

My simpe doesn't look like that! I downloaded it from http://sims.ambertation.de/

Where is that version from??

[HystericalParoxysm]

This tutorial was written a couple versions back - however, the important parts... the resource list and plugin view and all that should still work the same and be fine. You probably just have an extra set of buttons at the top, and don't have the resource filter as shown in the pics there anymore. It's still just a matter of changing the age in the property set - which is still done the exact same way.

[alidana325]

Yeah but my simpe doesn't look like that so I can't find the property set

[HystericalParoxysm]

If you have the most recent version of SimPE and a recolour file open in it, it will look VERY similar, in that you can select the Property Set from the resource list and look at the details of it in Plugin View.

[alidana325]

I don't have that list at the top

[alidana325]

I think I may have done it!

[HystericalParoxysm]

Sounds like you're more having trouble with SimPE than this tutorial, then. Mosey yourself over to the SimPE support forums... there are some on this site, and some on the official SimPE site.

[alidana325]

I did it!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Lianaa]

Thank you so much! I can have really good looking elder females now. I've just made a dress for both adult and elder females and it's great!

[ariapaige211]

hi Faylen, Tiggerypum,
i seem to be having trouble with the age conversion. specifically with Tiggerypum's cargo shorts and three-quarter sleeve men's shirts. the files all read 48 for age (the shirts came that way, and i did the shorts myself), but none of them show up for my college students. i have only the basegame and university.
thanks for any response you can give me,
paige

[HystericalParoxysm]

48 should work just fine... maybe try switching them to 58 (so they work for elders as well) and make sure you have it under the "age" category in the Property Set. There's a lot of settings in there and I often get 'em mixed up myself when adjusting ages.

[mira_moone]

You've made my day! Thank you for this tutorial, it was easy to understand and really helpful!

[onion_girl_9]

Thank you, thank you, thank you! I was trying to do this in a much more complicated way and it didn't work for all clothing. I knew there had to be a better way and that SIMPE would be the tool.

[ariapaige211]

i changed it to 58 and they now show up for elders and adults, but still not for young adults. i'm confused.

[piercedandpretty]

Dude this is so great i love my sims to be hip at all ages i really needed this thanks so much.

Rawk On!!!

[clovests2]

What are the child, toddler, and teen codes anyway?

[HystericalParoxysm]

clovests2, you can check the codes for child, toddler, and teen, by looking at the age value on an existing recolour of any clothing for those ages. However, trying to change any item to any of those values would be pointless, as the skeletons are not the same size and it wouldn't work right using this technique. You'd have to make a new mesh to fit the younger ages, which of course, would require you know how to make a brand new mesh and do the necessary changes to not only scale down a body, but also make the proportions right - an adult female mesh scaled directly down to child would still have hips and boobs, for instance, and would look Very Bad because of it.

[silo pixel & bean]

Stupid question: will this work for custom clothes that require a special/user-created mesh?

[HystericalParoxysm]

silo pixel & bean - Yup, it'll work just the same for custom clothes.

[Jason15417]

I have the newest version of simpe to find the property set you double click like said to open it but i had to use the the search under tools to find the property set but everything else works the same

[lizzrom]

We appreciate this tutorial; it was a great help. Especially once Lizzrom realized resource tree and resouce list are NOT the same thing.
Rinzarbin and Lizzrom

[megrdj]

Anybody tried this with Family Fun Kimono's/Seasons's. I can't seem to get it to work.

Thanks!
MegRDJ

[Aiikah]

Thank you so much, it works well ^^. Now all I need to find is a program to design my own clothes like make them and such

[Alasdair]

First I want to Thank you for providing this tutorial. I searched every Forum that I could find looking for a way to convert some of Warlokk's custom body meshes to Young Adult. I finally found this thread yesterday and was trying to do the conversions by just reading the first post. WQhich worked great till I got to the Property Set step. I tried everything to no avail to get the property set to open, but nothing worked. So I went back and read all the posts. After I tried what Jason15417 had posted, everything started to work just like the tutorial was saying to do.

So a really big Thank you to all of you. I thank you and my Sims thank you.

Alasdair

[Chimi]

Thank you for the tutorial :)
(\(\
(=',')
(/('')('')
*~Chimi~*

[J. M. Pescado]

Clothes can be converted to from teen <-> adult/YA in cases where a Maxis or other analogous mesh exists by reassigning the texture to the corresponding mesh, a somewhat more complicated procedure. This can actually be done at extremely low footprint, without creating the bloatware involved in duplicating the entire texture in bodyshop and doubling your memory usage.

[tiggerypum]

JM, the texture can only be assigned to 1 mesh at a time, right?

So you could 'change' the outfit from using one mesh/age to another, which would not be easy for most folks.

although when we say 'convert' here, we're not proposing removing the outfit from the age it's available in - you can't make one texture use 2 different meshes for the different ages can you?

[absolutelyfabulous7]

well it took me ages to find the tutorial (sneaky little thing hiding from me) then i realised i needed SimPE, had a he-uge panic 'cos i didn't know if they'd done it for seasons, was relieved as i realised they had updated.... then paniced AGAIN as i worried that i might not be able to do the stuff as i hadn't used SimPE before. the result.... i now have a perfect Elder outfit that was only for adults before :D!!! i can not begin to thank you enough for this tutorial Faylen. it was easy to follow and works brilliantly. thankyou again!

[Petchy]

Just out of Question...

back to the 24th Nov 2006, 08:21 PM , clovests2 posted about the Codes for Teen and Such.

HP Replyed with this :

clovests2, you can check the codes for child, toddler, and teen, by looking at the age value on an existing recolour of any clothing for those ages. However, trying to change any item to any of those values would be pointless, as the skeletons are not the same size and it wouldn't work right using this technique. You'd have to make a new mesh to fit the younger ages, which of course, would require you know how to make a brand new mesh and do the necessary changes to not only scale down a body, but also make the proportions right - an adult female mesh scaled directly down to child would still have hips and boobs, for instance, and would look Very Bad because of it.

But... Cold you post them here annyay?

Because I would like a Adult-ish looking Teen and I BELIVE It woulnt be that weird looking....

Thanks
PETCHY14

[HystericalParoxysm]

Well, you're welcome to think that, but it WOULD be that weird looking, and it wouldn't work. Teens and adults are different sizes and the neck and head would not match up and it would just look awful. You could go ahead and try, getting the age values from an existing teen outfit, just to see for yourself how bad it looks... To refit from teen to adult (or adult to teen) one must make a new mesh to fit the different sized body - not that hard as meshing goes, that refit, but a remesh -is- required if only to make the neck match up properly, even if you don't change the proportions of the body much.

[Petchy]

It Looks Ok to me...

But I do Admit the Coller is a Bit off....

But this IS a bacic Mesh annyway.

I'll Experiment some more, See what I can do :D

and the nunber is 8 at the end...

[Vigaku]

Very useful tutorial. Thanks Faylen! :)

[Melysa1973]

*heaves a huge sigh of relief*

A huge thank you! I need some regency clothing for a story I'm writing, and haven't found a dress that I really liked for elders. Now I have it. Thank you so much for your wonderful tutorial! It was very easy to follow, as all the tutorials are here. Thanks again!

[Saiki_Anmei]

I'm using SimPE 0.64, and when I double click on property set then click on plugin view, nothing shows up.

Edit:
I figured out how to do it for 0.64. After clicking on Property Set, click on the List tab at the bottom, where there should be an item in the list starting with "CASIE" or something like that. Click on it, then go to plugin view and that's where you change the age. Many thanks for this tutorial <3

[givemeallurpoison]

Can anybody help me?

I have used this great tutorial many times to convert custom adult clothes to young adult and it has always worked....however recently it simply doesn't work, i can get to the stage where there are two copies of the original in bodyshop, and then i do the Sims PE stuff, but when i go back into Bodyshop...the new age of outfit doesn't appear.

The other day for some unknown reason some of my custom outfits (which active sims were wearing) just disappeared from their bodies and were replaced by grey suits from the base game. When I tried to get them back through redownloading custom outfits from thesims2.com and then changing age it just didnt work!

I am filming a movie so continuity is essential, and if I can't get my old outfits back I am screwed!

PLEASE HELP ME!!!!

[J. M. Pescado]

There should definitely not be two copies of anything in bodyshop. Bodyshop should not even be used in this sort of conversion except to see if it worked, at the very end when you're done. You are doing something very, very wrong.

[givemeallurpoison]

There should definitely not be two copies of anything in bodyshop. Bodyshop should not even be used in this sort of conversion except to see if it worked, at the very end when you're done. You are doing something very, very wrong.

Thanks for your quick reply, but I don't see why i shouldn't be using Bodyshop for this, as that is what it says to do in the tutorial, and I have followed the tutorial many times before and it has worked...any ideas what I'm doing wrong?

Also, does anyone know if people who don't have the University EP can change outfits to Young Adult using SimsPE?

[Chikiya]

Ok, ever since I tried this tutorial SimPE is no longer working. And that was after trying to load the package file with it. What do I do?

[barbarella632000]

I just came across this tutorial and it was so useful. I was so frustrated 'cause there were some incredible adult clothes my young adults could not use, but now they can! The explanations are very clear and it all worked beautifully. Thank you very much, Faylen!

[JessicaJolt]

I recently recolored a hat for my sims, and wanted to use it for a teen, but then I realized that it was only for adults. :[
if I tried to convert it to teen, would it come out awful, or look alright?
If anyone could give me some advice I would greatly apreciate it :]

[smiley-sylvie]

So, you can't convert from adult to teen? Or vice versa?

[HystericalParoxysm]

This technique works ONLY for adult, young adult, and elder. You cannot convert ANY other age groups (toddler, child, or teen) without making a new mesh!

[VicarInATutu]

The pictures are all 404 - Not Found.

[lil bag2]

I cant fnd the property sets thing

[Randir]

I've used this code 0x00000048 to make some of my creations wearable for YA and A too. The code is now inserted the "age" line but the clothings aren't available for YA. What's wrong there?

[Blackgryffin]

Ah sorry guys, I'm on SimPE version 0.72.1 and nothing do it : when I double-clic Property set, nothing happens. Nor on right nor bottom. Nothing to clic on.

Any suggestion ?

[melody2]

@ blackgryffin:

Well, my first suggestion is: when you start your SimPe, you should see the Plugin View Tab on the left bottom...Its the tab that shows your property set content.
If you can't see the tab, go to window >> plugin view.

My second suggestion: download the latest version of SimPe. I guess, most of the latest tutorials are explained for the latest version of SimPe, which should be the 0.68.2. Well, actually that's the version I'm working with. XD
Maybe there already is a new one? Dunno. XDD Check it out on the SimPe website. ;)

Okay, time for my own question. XD
I don't know, if I can post that in this section...
Well, I have some necklaces for guys (adult), which I wanted to make work on male teens, either. I guess, changing the proberty set code makes no sense, because the sceletons of teens and adults are different.
So, how can I fix this, so I can use the necklace for teens as well?

[melody2]

@ blackgryffin:

Oh, sorry. XD I just noticed, you already have the latest version of SimPe. :rofl:
Gomen nassai. ^^° Well, then it may be the window problem. Just check, if your plugin view tab is open, you know, at the window button thingy on top of SimPe. :giggler:

I hope, someone will read my previous post after this second one here. XDD

[willwrightfan]

Thanks,Faylen! Thanks to you,my elders are absolutely fabulous! Thank you again,
~willwrightfan~

[Toxic Elf]

Thank you, Faylen, for taking the time to write such detailed easy to understand tutorials. I've learned so much from them

[tina790991]

so is there anyway possible to convert teen to adult w/o getting the space between the neck? or it's completly impossible?

[Lavaster]

dang it, i wish i could convert teen outfits into adult outfits again! arggg, im disappointed that wont work! but thanks, anyways! I will probably need this in the future.

[rarmuncher]

Thank you very much, now my elders can go fashionistas!

[PhoenixDiv2]

wait, wat version do u have :help: cuz mine looks nothin like that pls reply :deal:

[Burglar]

What is the child conversion code?
How DO you convert it?

[PhoenixDiv2]

I cant do it I don't get it! Can you PM me and help!?
I have the exact same problem,and its true its differnt 4rom the one in da pics ,i also did download mine from ambertation.com so i think u have to download a new one.Hoped it helped...

[PhoenixDiv2]

Yes, if you convert an elder clothing mesh to adult, then the adult is going to be shaped like the elder. The clothing mesh is laid over the body mesh. That's why most people would rather convert adult to elder rather than the other way around!

dear faylen,
My simpe does not look like that and i want it to work so badly!!!! So could u tell me wat version is that? so i can down load it! :lovestruc i BEG U :cry: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!:

[HystericalParoxysm]

PhoenixDiv2 - Faylen is no longer active here so I'll answer you - that is an OLD version of SimPE - it's not available anymore. But this same method still works - you still select the Property Set in the list, and modify the "age" line in Plugin View, hit Commit, and save. The appearance has just changed a little, not the steps you do.

Also, can you please type out whole words - "you" instead of "u" and whatnot. Thanks.

[PhoenixDiv2]

PhoenixDiv2 - Faylen is no longer active here so I'll answer you - that is an OLD version of SimPE - it's not available anymore. But this same method still works - you still select the Property Set in the list, and modify the "age" line in Plugin View, hit Commit, and save. The appearance has just changed a little, not the steps you do.

Also, can you please type out whole words - "you" instead of "u" and whatnot. Thanks.

HystericalParoxysm-I think it works now!I will pay you back somehow!!!!!!!THANK U !!!!!!!!

[PhoenixDiv2]

Oh i guess it didn't work ...instead it showed a top of completely nothing :blink:
Can a simpe expert help me!PLEASE!I know I'm asking a lot but please!!!

Edited:I meant the top was invisible and i think I did the x's wrong.Maybe i did a small x instead of a big one (X) i just complain a lot...

[HystericalParoxysm]

You must've done it wrong - this is a super simple tutorial and tbh, I don't know how one can explain it much easier/simpler than this. Try a different outfit, perhaps, and make sure you're doing it on an adult/young adult one (not child/teen/etc.) or it won't work. You said it was working, and then you say it's not - what was working, and what is not working now? I don't know what you mean by "instead it showed a top of completely nothing" - I can try to clarify if you can explain what the problem is, but without being able to lean over your shoulder and click your mouse for you, it's kinda hard to help.

Also, again, can you please type out whole words - and if you have something to add or change about your post, you can just click Edit rather than making a new one. Thanks.

[PhoenixDiv2]

I meant the top was invisible, :wtf: and i dont know why.Oh by the way,why cant teens, kids ,toddlers etc. doesnt work?Im just wondering because i want to test it out for experiment y'know?

[HystericalParoxysm]

Well, you must've changed something incorrectly if the top went invisible.

It doesn't work for the other ages because the 3D model and skeleton for those other ages is different. You have to actually modify the 3D model to refit clothes between any other ages but adult/young adult/elder or it'll look awful - totally wrong.

[PhoenixDiv2]

yeah i know wjat u meant,and the invisible top i experimented it with a child,maybe that's why! :rofl:

[billielith]

Awesome and super-clear tutorial. Thanks! I might want to use this to make my little nightgowns available for YA's also.

[Yaremi]

Thanks you so much for the tutorial! :*

[Begoth_Princess]

Will this work for outfits like Gypsy outfit, you know the ones you have to press Shift-N to see?

[Garambola]

Thank you! This has brought much joy for me right now as the bodyshaped people are starting to age. So few of their clothes show up for elders, but with this they can still have their clothes. :)

[wolfie_sims_94]

... Umm... how do you convert teen to adult? o__o" Without the little gap between the neck and the head? Is there a tutorial for that too?

[Mootilda]

... Umm... how do you convert teen to adult? o__o" Without the little gap between the neck and the head? Is there a tutorial for that too?From the first post: Please don't ask about converting Children or Teens - it simply won't work.At the very least, this is the wrong thread. You might want to start your own.

[wolfie_sims_94]

At the very least, this is the wrong thread. You might want to start your own.

Thank you, I didn't see that in the first post. o_o

I've seen teen to adult conversions many times before, and have not been able to find a tutorial yet. :blink: I'll try to look around some more, but if anyone finds anything, do tell me. :deal:

[Mootilda]

This might be useful:
http://www.insimenator.org/index.php/topic,77752.0.html

[Amtram]

Actually, Faylen is active here, she's just not Faylen anymore because she's not a moderator. Heh. (Waves!)

[wolfie_sims_94]

This might be useful:
http://www.insimenator.org/index.php/topic,77752.0.html

Thanks for that. I found this one extremely helpful, however, as I am more of a visual learner. :lol:

http://www.digitalperversion.net/gardenofshadows/index.php?topic=12916.0

[ekrubynaffit]

Thank you so much for this, it boggles my mind how you guys can work out what numbers you can use to change things, how you do it is beyond me, Im just thankful that you share the secrets!!

[SimsNintendo]

Wow! Thanks! That is cool... And it is not "problemish"!
Thanks...

[BloomsBase]

Resizing Adult meshes to Teen meshes « Reply #2 on: March 30, 2008, 07:08:32 pm » Tho, you making it so hard....... Wink This is how i do it:
*Import a teen mesh with the morphs.
*import the adult mesh with the morphs.
*select the adult mesh and its morphs.
*scale to 94% (0.94) with ''origine'' box ticked at scaling options.
*Fix the neck vertices and normals using Wes H normal and Date merge tool.(your using the original teen mesh as reference mesh here) Or use extended manual edit and copy and paste the neck vertice value's. *delete the original teen mesh and teen morph.
*export.
I normal drop the shoulders also back to teen size as i suspect necklesses and such wont fit the scaled mesh, but i forgot if this is only a issue on the females or both female and male. « Last Edit: June 13, 2010, 07:46:45 am by BlooM »

This is how i always did it