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PoisonFrog
16th Mar 2012, 08:59 PM
Making a world without roads doesn't seem to be something EA envisioned, though arguably they should have when they added horses to the Pets EP. I'm making this thread to get some input into the unique problems associated with undertaking an equestrian world, and hopefully compile some solutions for myself and others who engage in this endeavor.

I'm about four months into this world and am beginning to take a harder look at the routing issues involved. The main thing that leaps out at me is how dysfunctional sidewalks/dirt trails become when you remove the roads, as the roads absorb the brunt of the traffic, usually. Also vehicles seem able to pass through one another, while sims on trails don't...they just stand around tapping their feet and having routing fits. Mods should help alleviate this, somewhat.

If you place a trail where it connects various locales, all sims except the household you are playing seem to lunge for it like piranha who've picked up the scent of blood. Some of them just stand on the trail blocking sims who actually have a destination...if you select them, they suddenly decide to go back home..duh! A disrupted meet up queue? Not to mention horses on their way to the styling salon(I would only hope it's to impress other horses). Add to this, that a trail consists of a single routing spline.

I see a SimRoutingComponent xml in the gameplay package that could possibly be helpful. It has push tunings to move sims off a route and immunity to pushing settings, also. Ideally, I would like to leave my trails as they are and use various xml tunings to make the routing functional, but I suspect this will only be part of a larger set of fixes that will need to be implemented.

Some other solutions I'm contemplating are...
-Putting an invisible trail side by side with the existing trail in heavy traffic areas. Invisible trails made that way by using a black opacity alpha are visible in map view...I wonder if there is a way to make the dirt sidewalk dds partially or fully invisible...perhaps by using a png instead of dds? Might not need mipmaps then...
-Eliminating problematic trails and replacing them with trails made from terrain paint. Then use 1x1 segments of invisible trail to make a dotted line of sorts over the painted trail that sims will route to...hopefully. I prefer not to accomplish this by using non-routing paint, as I want most of the world to be accessible and geared to explorers and collectors.
-Delete the failed trails and let sims route freely in those areas, perhaps painting in dirt roads for decoration.
-Not include all rabbit holes and have a more self sufficient ethic, where sims prospect for spawned goodies and work at home or careers mostly.
-Homeschooling(Twallan's career mod) and/or multiple small schoolhouses.

A couple of other related thoughts...
Mod to eliminate the carpool in 1 hour popup.
Ways to make npc's ride horses...equestrian trait?
Wouldn't it be great to have horse driven buggies, carriages and coaches?

I'm not sure how much interest there is in this, as I didn't see a whole lot about it on a Google search. I hope there are at least a few out there with a passion for this...
:)

Riptide651
17th Mar 2012, 03:16 AM
I'd take a look at the Medieval World in CFF, the creator is trying to pull a similar idea off. I'd PM her and ask because I have absolutely no knowledge of this. You could make dirt roads and give no one cars? just a guess.

PoisonFrog
17th Mar 2012, 11:34 AM
Hey Riptide...
You live just a stones throw away from me in Oshkosh(home of the Experimental Aircraft Association...for anybody wondering what an Oshkosh is).
I see you're working on making a Sturgeon Bay world...hope you upload a beta once you get a ways into your project, as it's really beautiful country up there.

Thanks for pointing this out:
A Medieval/Renaissance City (http://www.modthesims.info/showthread.php?t=388985&c=1&ht=&page=1&pp=25#startcomment)
While it looks like a fantastic world, I'll probably wait her out until she posts some pictures or uploads a beta of the no roads version, so I can ask more specific questions.

On a related note, I did come across this world the other day:
http://www.thesims3.com/assetDetail.html?assetId=4742162
I've downloaded it, but haven't played it yet. I'm not sure if it's a fully equestrian world, but she did speak quite a bit about horse trails in another thread, so I'll check it out & comment later if needed.

I did see a reference to a No Cars mod by Shimrod in the Medieval/Renaissance City thread, but so far have not been able to locate it...wondering if he may have pulled it for some reason?

Edit: I found Shimrod's No Cars mod... (http://gnautylilgnomes.com/forum/index.php?topic=2568.0)
:bunny:

Birdflight
17th Mar 2012, 03:00 PM
i love the idea of this! it'll mean my victorian world makes more sense! if you want any help, just ask! :bunny:

PoisonFrog
17th Mar 2012, 05:07 PM
i love the idea of this! it'll mean my victorian world makes more sense! if you want any help, just ask! :bunny:

Anything and everything that could be useful is welcome :)

I changed the thread title from "Routing for Equestrian Worlds" to "Creating Equestrian Worlds" so as to be more inclusive of anything someone might want to add...

simsample
17th Mar 2012, 10:46 PM
Have you tried leaving out the trails (footpaths) altogether? As you mention, they are only one sim wide, so sims cannot pass on them. However, sims don't actually need footpaths- they can run across open land just as well, and if you want to guide them to a certain route (like, go around this hill or to the left of this rock) you can achieve that by careful use of obstacles or non-routing paint.

If you don't have a road then you don't get pizza delivery, carpools etc., so that's the incentive for using roads, but as far as I can tell there is no real reason for using a trail (footpath) except for encouraging sims to use a particular route. Just leaving them out would make it more sim and horse friendly, unless anyone can think of something that's not occurred to me!

Riptide651
18th Mar 2012, 12:20 AM
OH! I don't live in Michigan... I live in California. But sure, it can still be a stones throw, just a really big one. :)

PoisonFrog
18th Mar 2012, 02:21 AM
OH! I don't live in Michigan... I live in California. But sure, it can still be a stones throw, just a really big one. :)
You fooled me with all the Sturgeon Bay stuff :lol: I was born in Michigan, but lived most of my life in Wisconsin, where Sturgeon Bay is.

Have you tried leaving out the trails (footpaths) altogether? As you mention, they are only one sim wide, so sims cannot pass on them. However, sims don't actually need footpaths- they can run across open land just as well, and if you want to guide them to a certain route (like, go around this hill or to the left of this rock) you can achieve that by careful use of obstacles or non-routing paint.

If you don't have a road then you don't get pizza delivery, carpools etc., so that's the incentive for using roads, but as far as I can tell there is no real reason for using a trail (footpath) except for encouraging sims to use a particular route. Just leaving them out would make it more sim and horse friendly, unless anyone can think of something that's not occurred to me!

I'm keeping open routing as a failsafe. I'd be more tempted to do that on a flatter world with fewer terrain routing issues...just prefer the aesthetics of trails more, also. I can run a semi-transparent line of black along the edges to get a cool subtle worn in path look. I also found that by blending the dirt sidewalk dds with my base texture sandDirt dds, the trails blend in well and there's not much of the boxy end effect that happens when you terminate trails usually. You could probably make a custom sidewalk corner to do that, too.

I'm going to end up with a lot of open routing areas already...but would like some variation to keep it interesting. Not a lot of trails, but some that are realistically located. Examining the Creative possibilities is as much fun as playing the game for me, so spending some time looking at this isn't a problem.

Also tweaked the SimRoutingComponent xml today, and it seems to help limit the routing chaos. I'll have to take a closer look tomorrow to be sure.

BTW...been going over the walk in basement thread you guys made a while back..really liked it.
:)

PoisonFrog
19th Mar 2012, 08:27 PM
I had a chance to play in my SimRoutingComponent mod a bit, and it performed very well. In fact, I think it solved all routing problems to a degree where no further actions are required. Only water and routing paint seems to stop them now.

Most settings in this xml are timed settings. About a dozen settings were changed...by large amounts. Sims are less likely to be "pushed" off their route now, will rarely idle, and are more motivated to walk through objects and other sims if need be. That doesn't happen often, but over a 24 sim hour period I did catch one instance where one sim was descending a spiral staircase while another ascended...they walked right through each other.

The bottom line is that this mod makes your sims highly motivated to get where they are going, with little stalling, fits, or foot tapping, as far as I can tell.

This is only a beta version as I want to study it, to see if I need to readjust any timings. Also, I only did the settings related to sims, ignoring the pets adjustments for the time being. Additionally this mod was made on the 1.29 patch. While it may be compatible with the 1.3x series of patches...I have no way of checking it, as I'm currently unwilling to patch up due to EA's recent patching failures.

So, for now, I'm going to post it to my blog(link in my sig) on an as is basis in the entry entitled 'Miscellany'. If and when I have an iteration that meets criteria... I will upload to MTS. I'm thinking this could be a good all around routing mod for all worlds...time will tell.
:sheep: