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eskie227 6th Dec 2012 1:45 AM

Quote: Originally posted by virgalibabe

Rated M doesn't have to be extremely graphic either. It just means it could open up the game for more mature subjects. Smoking, real alcohol and sims actually getting drunk, no silly censors, realistic skins, breast feeding, teen sex (doesn't have to be teen-adult just teen-teen), sexier strippers etc.


All of which our talented creators have already given us. Which is probably for the best. Would you trust EA to create mature subject material without totally screwing it up?

I mean, just look at the "sexy" lingerie that came with Master Suite. It was more Sears, than Victoria's Secret (granted, it was rated T, although it was more like G, not even PG). OTOH, with good custom skins, lots of sliders, and real custom lingerie, you can now take a group of winged fairies and give the Victoria's Secret Fashion Show a run for their money.

virgalibabe 6th Dec 2012 3:23 AM

Quote: Originally posted by eskie227
All of which our talented creators have already given us. Which is probably for the best. Would you trust EA to create mature subject material without totally screwing it up?

I mean, just look at the "sexy" lingerie that came with Master Suite. It was more Sears, than Victoria's Secret (granted, it was rated T, although it was more like G, not even PG). OTOH, with good custom skins, lots of sliders, and real custom lingerie, you can now take a group of winged fairies and give the Victoria's Secret Fashion Show a run for their money.


The talented creators aren't paid to make content, besides whether EA fucks it up or not they would set a nice precedent that EPs can be rated something else than the base-game. since they already "broke all the rules" with the KPST thingamajig whose to say they can't make a special EP pack with more coding and content specifically targeted at a more mature audience?

writerchick 6th Dec 2012 3:32 AM

I've been wondering if this sort of split rating scheme would be possible -- where the game and most of the EP/SPs are rated teen, but then one or more EPs/SPs have a stronger rating. Would parents raise a stink if it turns out the latest EP they purchased for junior is rated "mature"?

Personally, I'd say it's on the parents if they make that mistake, but then, I'm not a parent...

virgalibabe 6th Dec 2012 3:47 AM

Quote: Originally posted by writerchick
I've been wondering if this sort of split rating scheme would be possible -- where the game and most of the EP/SPs are rated teen, but then one or more EPs/SPs have a stronger rating. Would parents raise a stink if it turns out the latest EP they purchased for junior is rated "mature"?

Personally, I'd say it's on the parents if they make that mistake, but then, I'm not a parent...


Well isn't the entire point of the rating system to warn customers about the content of the item they are considering to purchase? Surely if the kid isn't old enough to buy the game himself/herself and the parent sees an M rating a bell oughta ring that this particular expansion isn't suitable for his/her son/daughter.

There are so many games with violence and parents have no problem buying those. I knew plenty of 8 y/o playing GTA for example.

Most gamers are Teens, Y/A and up and there are already free games they can play on the internet that's a lot more graphic than TS3. Sims 3 has a huge amount of adults playing it. Let me remind people of that fact. Especially since the Sims have been around for a while and many of the fans grew up with the game.

Bottom line is still this, what's the point of the rating system if we assume that nobody looks at it before buying the product?

writerchick 6th Dec 2012 4:20 AM

Don't misunderstand, I totally agree with you. I wish we had more adult content in the Sims franchise, because I'd like to have my sims doing more adult things.

And I agree with your point of what's the point of having a rating system if people don't pay attention to the rating when they purchase a game.

To be honest, I'm not really sure why this game is rated Teen, as it seems pretty tame to me. Adult themes? Really? Two sims diving under the blankets and doing stuff under there? Sims don't even have sex, they woohoo. What about that is even remotely too "adult" for little kids to see?

I remember the Looney Tunes cartoons I'd see as a kid or even the sitcoms of the 1960s, which showed adults drinking and smoking, and no one thought anything of any of that. (And for the record, I never smoked and drink very occasionally, so it's not like my seeing that as a kid lead me into a life of debauchery or anything...) I'd say as TS3 is now, it's really no worse (and maybe not even as bad) as a lot of things I was exposed to as a kid...

ButchSims 6th Dec 2012 5:48 AM

While I would love more "adult-themed" content, I don't think EA would ever make a pack like that. Bottom line is, they would lose money. One thing you have to remember is, there are many stores that won't even SELL Mature rated games, regardless of the age of the person buying them. That will hurt their bottom line, and since we all know EA is all about raking in the cash, I can't foresee them doing anything to disrupt that intentionally.

Quote: Originally posted by writerchick

I remember the Looney Tunes cartoons I'd see as a kid or even the sitcoms of the 1960s, which showed adults drinking and smoking, and no one thought anything of any of that. (And for the record, I never smoked and drink very occasionally, so it's not like my seeing that as a kid lead me into a life of debauchery or anything...) I'd say as TS3 is now, it's really no worse (and maybe not even as bad) as a lot of things I was exposed to as a kid...
Back then people thought smoking and drinking were healthy for you, with no harmful side effects. Of course, we know different now. Those same shows showing smoking also had the parents in separate beds, even when Lucy got pregnant.

virgalibabe 6th Dec 2012 6:13 AM

Well I guess you have point. The rating system itself is very flawed either way, it's more arbitrary than not. By the way, stores refusing to sell rated M games is that a common problem in the US? I don't recall it being a problem here at all.

writerchick 6th Dec 2012 9:58 AM

Quote: Originally posted by ButchSims
While I would love more "adult-themed" content, I don't think EA would ever make a pack like that. Bottom line is, they would lose money. One thing you have to remember is, there are many stores that won't even SELL Mature rated games, regardless of the age of the person buying them. That will hurt their bottom line, and since we all know EA is all about raking in the cash, I can't foresee them doing anything to disrupt that intentionally.


I checked Target.com this evening. Three of the five featured video game titles on the site are rated M. (Assassin's Creed 3, Halo 4, and Black Ops whatever.) For the record, they sell those titles in their physical stores, as well. Now maybe you meant that stores won't sell M rated games if the M rating is given for sexual content, but were I a parent, I think I'd object less to sex than I would games where the whole point is to murder as many people as gorily as possible. YMMV...

If I recall correctly, digital downloads now outpace physical disk sales for the Sims.

If an adult pack was only available via digital download, they'd reduce their costs somewhat (no physical disks, boxes, or shipping needed). That's something they're already pushing; so using the "adult" themepack as the excuse to insist on digital download as the sole means of dispersal would further serve their purpose of pushing players toward that model.

Most of the animations would be pretty simple (cmomoney, I think, has already done a smoking mod, so the animation can't be too difficult) to completely unchanged (drinking an alcoholic beverage looks the same as drinking a non-alcoholic one). New clothing meshes aren't too difficult, and if some of them involved partial nudity, well, there's even less to make. As discussed upthread, the bachelor party already exists, so a lot of the dancer's actions simply need to be released from the limits of that party. Add in a few new animations for the dancers to be sexier and more tempting, and voila!

I highly doubt they'd give us the more "interesting" sorts of animations people are wanting, though...

BTW... you're suggesting an adult themepack wouldn't sell as well as the Katy Perry Crap Pack? Really?

The real roadblock here is that the Sims franchise is seen a certain way; how well received would it be if it was suddenly far less "family-friendly," which was the point I was trying to make in my first post.

Quote:
Back then people thought smoking and drinking were healthy for you, with no harmful side effects. Of course, we know different now. Those same shows showing smoking also had the parents in separate beds, even when Lucy got pregnant.


They knew different then, too, as evidenced by the fact that a common slang term for cigarettes was "coffin nails," and that was pre-WWII.

Yes, Madison Avenue ad campaigns may have featured doctors touting the health benefits of cigarettes back in the 1950s, but that doesn't mean anyone really bought into that BS. (Or maybe I should put it like this: the only people who bought it were the delusional ones who wanted to excuse their bad behavior by embracing the lie that it was really healthy, even while they're coughing their lungs out.)

Cigarettes were ubiquitous, but that doesn't mean people believed they were "healthy" at all. They might not have realized just how bad they were, but they knew they caused health problems.

And have you ever seen the 1945 film "The Lost Weekend," about a man who loses an entire weekend while on a drunken bender? Yeah, they knew drinking wasn't healthy.

The difference is that people today have the benefit of understanding due to vast numbers of studies which have been done. People back fifty or more years ago didn't have that benefit, but that doesn't mean they weren't aware those things weren't good for them. They simply weren't aware how bad for them they were or how addictive.

People also knew where babies came from, even if married adult characters slept in adjacent twin beds. (As a kid, I figured they just pushed the beds together when they wanted to be "friendly.")

I realize people like to think they're far more enlightened than previous generations, but those who came before us weren't complete morons...

gemly_teddie 6th Dec 2012 10:41 AM

I can see where both sides of the argument are coming from.

modders have already made a variety of things to make our games more mature, so ea dont really have a need too (though they could make a 'drunk' moodlet, im fairly sure that from a very young age i knew the effects of alcohol, and surely having sims able to drink constantly all day and night at a bar is setting a worse example?) and i can see why they wouldnt want to ruin their image by having a mature sims game under their belt, but i also agree that most children i know play violent games and i cant see why their parents would care that the mature rating was for sexual content instead, id prefer my kids played games with sexual content like 'the sims 3 mature' because if theyre really young they wouldnt discover the content anyway, i remember when i was young i was excited that my character would go to work, and get promotions when i was still at school, i literally only used the 'woohoo' to make babies, because i knew of it purpose, but i didn't know it was also an enjoyable activity...

so basically, young people these days are more desensitised so i dont see how they, or their parents, would bat an eye at an 'm' instead of a 't', especially because they dont change the rating for the uk, where letters mean nothing to us as everything else is rated by age (u, pg, 12, 15 and 18) that goes for americas 'pg 13' movies too, in the uk theyre just 'pg' so you could have a 4 year old watch it if their parents were there...

eskie227 6th Dec 2012 11:36 AM

Quote: Originally posted by gemly_teddie

so basically, young people these days are more desensitised so i dont see how they, or their parents, would bat an eye at an 'm' instead of a 't', especially because they dont change the rating for the uk, where letters mean nothing to us as everything else is rated by age (u, pg, 12, 15 and 18) that goes for americas 'pg 13' movies too, in the uk theyre just 'pg' so you could have a 4 year old watch it if their parents were there...


I the U.S. PG, or even PG 13 is a guideline, Parental Guidance Suggested. Even a 4 year old can go to an R (no one under 17 unless accompanied by an adult) rated movie if accompanied by an adult. And an R rating can be a bit much for a 4 year old.

Quote: Originally posted by Writerchick
If an adult pack was only available via digital download, they'd reduce their costs somewhat (no physical disks, boxes, or shipping needed). That's something they're already pushing; so using the "adult" themepack as the excuse to insist on digital download as the sole means of dispersal would further serve their purpose of pushing players toward that model.


There really is no practical way to ensure purchase by an adult in an online transaction. If some kid checks off their date of birth that exceeds the requirement, they're in business. Unfortunately, there would be a number of parents who would not be happy with their kid's "family friendly" sims game suddenly morph into a strip club with lap dances and "special services" in the private rooms in the rear (just assuming that's how it works, of course).

Even a physical disk in a store, where the buyer can be age verified by a cashier is risky. Imagine a parent used to walking into Walmart and grabbing a copy of a Sims EP off the shelf for their precious little Amy, grabbing a copy of Late, Late Night, bringing it home, and finding little Amy playing the role of Madam. If parents are used to a game being age appropriate, it is reasonable to expect them to simply grab the latest EP off the shelf, without even checking the rating. It's the Sims, after all.

pico22 6th Dec 2012 12:53 PM

Quote: Originally posted by eskie227
Even a 4 year old can go to an R (no one under 17 unless accompanied by an adult) rated movie if accompanied by an adult.

If that is the law, paedophiles must be ecstatic about it.

As for the main theme of this thread: I played TS(1) base game on a borrowed PC for a while (I can't play it on my machine) and I was really surprised when my Sim couple kissed and, BANG, a baby appeared - I totally forgot that and also the fact that "woohoo" was not possible at that stage at all. However, as far as I am concerned this is the way to do it: if you want to cover things up, cover them up to the bitter end. (And leave behind a ton of kids who absolutely refuse to be kissed by anybody.) Or don't cover them at all; make them available and let the user decide about them the same way as he may decide about the weather. The middle way, the typical Eaxis way, always proves to be the worst.

ButchSims 6th Dec 2012 1:08 PM

Quote: Originally posted by writerchick
I checked Target.com this evening. Three of the five featured video game titles on the site are rated M. (Assassin's Creed 3, Halo 4, and Black Ops whatever.) For the record, they sell those titles in their physical stores, as well. Now maybe you meant that stores won't sell M rated games if the M rating is given for sexual content, but were I a parent, I think I'd object less to sex than I would games where the whole point is to murder as many people as gorily as possible. YMMV...

If I recall correctly, digital downloads now outpace physical disk sales for the Sims.


No, I meant that certain stores don't sell ANY game with a mature rating. As in, they don't even stock it on shelves. I've worked in the gaming retail industry, and that is standard practice for a lot of stores, Target notwithstanding.

Also, different countries have different rules regarding content. There are many games that have to edit out certain content if they want the game to be sold in their countries. Some even ban them outright. It's a sticky situation.

And yes, I think it would sell less than the craptacular Katy Perry. Just because you and I have more enlightened attitudes towards adult content doesn't mean that the majority of simmers do. And while you may be more concerned with gore and violence over nudity, many other parents would raise a stink. EA would avoid it like a plague. I'm not saying that there isn't a market for it, I'm just saying I don't think EA would make an "official" pack dedicated to it.

virgalibabe 6th Dec 2012 1:37 PM

Quote: Originally posted by ButchSims
No, I meant that certain stores don't sell ANY game with a mature rating. As in, they don't even stock it on shelves. I've worked in the gaming retail industry, and that is standard practice for a lot of stores, Target notwithstanding.

Also, different countries have different rules regarding content. There are many games that have to edit out certain content if they want the game to be sold in their countries. Some even ban them outright. It's a sticky situation.

And yes, I think it would sell less than the craptacular Katy Perry. Just because you and I have more enlightened attitudes towards adult content doesn't mean that the majority of simmers do. And while you may be more concerned with gore and violence over nudity, many other parents would raise a stink. EA would avoid it like a plague. I'm not saying that there isn't a market for it, I'm just saying I don't think EA would make an "official" pack dedicated to it.


Yes, but is that mainly an American issue? Cause last time I checked there are billions of people in the rest of the world and EA could rake up some nice profits from the more "progressive" countries. Not all countries are as sensitive about sex as the US. I know from experience talking to many parents about what their 11 y/o and up play.

There are plenty of households where it's totally normal for 8 y/o to play GTA and know about the sex cheats. Often if the parents don't make a big deal about something, neither will the kids which if not completely retarded know the difference between entertainment and real life.

If they market it as a digital download only, I think it would go over pretty well. The main problem here is indeed "image". That and they are so craving for money that they wouldn't want to pass up their time and resources creating a product that's not targeted at "everybody".

hugbug993 6th Dec 2012 3:19 PM

Quote: Originally posted by ButchSims
Back then people thought smoking and drinking were healthy for you, with no harmful side effects. Of course, we know different now. Those same shows showing smoking also had the parents in separate beds, even when Lucy got pregnant.


Assuming that you're talking about I Love Lucy, there was actually a huge controversy over the fact that Lucy and Ricardo slept in a single bed without one of their legs on the floor.

And I'll agree with you on the smoking, but not the drinking. The US went through a whole period where people decided that they needed to edit the bible because Jesus drank wine. Not to mention attempts to scar children for life while they watched the effects of a baby elephant drinking. Meanwhile, Fred Flintstone is talking about how great cigarettes are, despite The Flintstones doing a Very Special Episode on the effects of drug use that was only slightly less awkward than the Winnie The Pooh: Too Smart For Strangers special.

Anyway, I agree that EA probably wouldn't pull off a Sexy Sims Expansion Pack very well. This is the same programming team that thinks that dancing with a sim at your prom makes you obligated not to flirt with anyone else. Their idea of "sexy" would probably be sticking a foot out from under the covers during WooHoo. If there were more custom animations for TS3, I would stick with that.

tizerist 6th Dec 2012 5:11 PM

You can have a decent attempt at this using current tools, but I haven't tried it.
You can make a dance club with small dance mats under thin circular columns (stripping-pole) on a stage.
You can use the 'role sim' mod
http://mysims3blog.blogspot.co.uk/2...y-misukisu.html
to have a stripper start work at a certain time, wearing whatever clothes are chosen as a work uniform.
Place the 'role sim' object near the strip pole. Give the stripper traits which would encourage them to dance, and generally act flirty.
I think Inge has an item or two which would work well with this, like the OFB object and transparent floors.

You can do most of the work now.

writerchick 6th Dec 2012 11:38 PM

Quote: Originally posted by ButchSims
No, I meant that certain stores don't sell ANY game with a mature rating. As in, they don't even stock it on shelves. I've worked in the gaming retail industry, and that is standard practice for a lot of stores, Target notwithstanding.


Just checked Walmart, BestBuy, and Gamestop -- they all carry rated M games, too. Several of those games are featured titles on the sites I checked, so I'd hazard a guess that they're also among their best sellers. For the non-US readers, the four retailers I've listed are probably about 80 to 90% of the US retail market for video games. Maybe some mom-and-pop stores don't carry M rated games, but it hardly would make a dent in total sales.

When it comes to weighing profits versus morality, profits always win.

eskie227 7th Dec 2012 12:55 AM

Quote: Originally posted by writerchick
Just checked Walmart, BestBuy, and Gamestop -- they all carry rated M games, too. Several of those games are featured titles on the sites I checked, so I'd hazard a guess that they're also among their best sellers. For the non-US readers, the four retailers I've listed are probably about 80 to 90% of the US retail market for video games. Maybe some mom-and-pop stores don't carry M rated games, but it hardly would make a dent in total sales.

When it comes to weighing profits versus morality, profits always win.


That's OK. Walmart has refused to sell music CDs that have a Parental Advisory label on them. And while most purchases of music are online these days, Walmart still does sell lots of CDs. So imagining a large chain refusing to sell a "Sexy Sims" EP is not so farfetched.

Volvenom 7th Dec 2012 1:31 AM

Changing from teen rating to adult may not be that easy. Parents will happily sue EA for selling them a product for adults in a product line going several years back only for teens. The fact that they should have been reading the label may not be enough. The impression I have from the US, sex is regarded as more dangerous (if I can use that word) for the teenage mind than violence. In Europe it tends to be opposite.

The world is bigger than only US or Europe though. Lots of countries in the world may ban this exp all together, like Arab countries and many countries in Asia. Digital download may not be realistic either for reasons already mentioned. They can't know for sure what age I am, and if I old enough I still don't want them to know. Many countries may not like EA having that kind of information about their customer at all. The information people give at registration have to be enough, or it will end up in shops.

I don't think EA cares a dot about what the community is doing unless it benefit themselfes. What modders do is irrelevant to them. Many consumers don't download mods either.

virgalibabe 7th Dec 2012 2:40 AM

Quote: Originally posted by eskie227
That's OK. Walmart has refused to sell music CDs that have a Parental Advisory label on them. And while most purchases of music are online these days, Walmart still does sell lots of CDs. So imagining a large chain refusing to sell a "Sexy Sims" EP is not so farfetched.


Still that would be an American chain. Either way this is all wishful thinking. We have a better chance at having a rated M spin-off that will be full of bugs and will only be supported for about 4 months than them actually breaking the patter with a special EP. I use the word "chance" very loosely in this case. lol

douglasveiga 7th Dec 2012 3:37 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Celebriton
I remember someone try to make a stripper mod, where sims using " LN dance on the table", attract visitors to watch and earn money.

But he never publish it. Too bad.


i am not sure, but i think it was me. i created and uploaded here a similar mod to request the bachelor party dancer service (from Generations), but i discontinued because i don't have the generations ep anymore.

High Plains Gamer 7th Dec 2012 7:20 PM

Walmart has loosened up on its policy. Just a few years ago, you would find Britney Spears' "If You Seek Amy" just a few isles down from the family friendly Sims game. Maybe the suits just did not get the wordplay in Spears' song title? (It's an old joke, going back to Jame Joyce's Ulysses.)

The people making these rules are not the sharpest knives in the drawer.

Periandre 7th Dec 2012 11:54 PM

But EA only goes for the mass money. If they were willing to produce things that would sell, and sell well, but not to everyone -- they'd support their own EPs. Most of us, I think would buy new late night bars and elevators, new spiral stairs... a more modern alchemy station... but everyone doesn't have the necessary EPs. So it doesn't happen. Everyone is not of age, or interested in a mature EP. So, again, it doesn't happen.

Celebriton 8th Dec 2012 5:34 PM

M rating is a joke.......the developer actually made for T rating. They purposely change it to M for marketing stuff. Well, you know, teenagers are exciting if it had M rating.

For a real M rating game, they should have more matured, darker and more serious story. Including the use of mature stuff as a common part of the game.

High Plains Gamer 8th Dec 2012 5:46 PM

Of course, why would a strip club merit a mature rating? How is this "adult" material?

We see strip clubs all the time in prime time television shows. They are real common on cop shows. On the television show, The Supranos, the gangsters worked out of a stip club (the Bada Bing). (Oh why, oh why, does the criminal career have to be based out of a warehouse?) The truth of the matter is there is far more disturbing stuff on these shows than a strip club with girls wearing bikinis.

While this is a necroed thread, these simply is more content in the sims to work with. We got strippers in Generations -- so that line was crossed a long time ago. New animations exist. It would be a good project for someone (else) to do.

tizerist 8th Dec 2012 8:28 PM

This is the sort of thing Pandorasims is good at. They made all manner of cool pervy stuff in TS2.
I forgot about those Gen strippers. I've never seen them.
I must admit, I miss my adult anims as much as OFB.


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