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Guidelines/Rubrics Changes - posted on 16th Jun 2017 at 6:09 PM
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Top Secret Researcher
#3101 Old 29th Jun 2014 at 8:00 AM
Someone already said they had no plans for live broadcasts yet, but that may have been referring to post-launch. Considering Grant can't even post screen shots, and all that's been stripped from the game, I am morbidly curious to see gameplay at this point.
Instructor
#3102 Old 29th Jun 2014 at 8:11 AM
*collapses onto ground of page 125* I-I made it.... To the end of the topic!(for now..)

I wasn't sure... If I'd ever make it. Every time I went to sleep or work, or hell even the bathroom, twenty new pages would be up. But I'm here... now... at the end 0__0

And there's about the same amount of new info since E3 (and a bunch of "no", "no", "no","no","no" answers via twitter)

I don't watch tv, so can anyone say if there has been any tv spots ran on the game yet, anywhere? Is it too early for that? What about online ads? Just curious if/how they're trying to build hype (aside from like the fb page), 'cause I'm just sort of 'meh' to it all now :-/
One horse disagreer of the Apocalypse
#3103 Old 29th Jun 2014 at 8:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimGuruGraham
@ssoggysimss There isn't a "poor" area per se, more like middle class on up. Sims traditionally shies away from the difficulties of life; I personally think it's a theme that would be really interesting to explore.


I replied to point out to him that in TS1 and TS2 there were premade poor sims living in trailers, and many of us enjoyed playing them.

Does anyone think it would be a good idea if, before EA recruits a colleague to a position where they will have input into the game design, they were required to spend a month playing previous versions of the game, as well as reading archives of posts players made about those games? That way they'd really get a feel for what long-time players understand the game to be, what they might be missing about the old games, and in a better position to answer questions about why things changed in the design of a later game.

"You can do refraction by raymarching through the depth buffer" (c. Reddeyfish 2017)
Alchemist
#3104 Old 29th Jun 2014 at 8:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inge Jones
I replied to point out to him that in TS1 and TS2 there were premade poor sims living in trailers, and many of us enjoyed playing them.

Does anyone think it would be a good idea if, before EA recruits a colleague to a position where they will have input into the game design, they were required to spend a month playing previous versions of the game, as well as reading archives of posts players made about those games? That way they'd really get a feel for what long-time players understand the game to be, what they might be missing about the old games, and in a better position to answer questions about why things changed in the design of a later game.

Excellent idea. I have no idea why they don't have just a little of that in place, anyway, even if not a month, at least something.
Mad Poster
#3105 Old 29th Jun 2014 at 8:23 AM
That's right Inge, set it straight. Loved playing the Newbies, Hicks, and the Broke families as poor and struggling. Didn't play every household as the Lifestyles of the Rich & Famous.

Resident member of The Receptacle Refugees
Let's help fund mammograms for everyone. If you want to help, Click To Give @ The Breast Cancer Site Your click is free. Thank you.
Field Researcher
#3106 Old 29th Jun 2014 at 8:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimGuruGraham
@ssoggysimss There isn't a "poor" area per se, more like middle class on up. Sims traditionally shies away from the difficulties of life; I personally think it's a theme that would be really interesting to explore.


That is... completely stupid. Your Sims can get jobs. They earn Simoleons. They have to pay bills. You cannot escape the reality of money and its affects in the game, so why on earth would they shy away from the "difficulties of life"? And why would you shy away from being poor but not shy away from, you know, Sims dying? This just in: dealing with death is difficult.

I knew that CASt being taken away was going to fuck with my gameplay, because none of my trashy trailer park denizens would be able to go around in head-to-toe leopard print. I didn't expect Willow Creek to have a trailer park, but why does the town have to be middle class and upwards?

I thought that the mentions of "homeless Sims" would have fit my town perfectly, but I have a feeling they aren't homeless - just townies with no actual home.
Top Secret Researcher
#3107 Old 29th Jun 2014 at 8:34 AM
Mmhmm, there sure was. And there's an entire trailer park in Riverview.

Field Researcher
#3108 Old 29th Jun 2014 at 8:37 AM
We should send some mails to the heads at EA. Because maybe if we spam them they will delay TS4 (one can dream, right right!!?)
Test Subject
#3109 Old 29th Jun 2014 at 8:41 AM
"Sims traditionally shies away from the difficulties of life"?!
Um no, it was just swept under the rug with TS3 where your sims would never have fears and could get rich by selling rocks and flowers.
I swear, the more the SimGurus spew shit out of their mouths on twitter, the more I want to cancel my preorder.
One horse disagreer of the Apocalypse
#3110 Old 29th Jun 2014 at 8:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimsTias
We should send some mails to the heads at EA. Because maybe if we spam them they will delay TS4 (one can dream, right right!!?)


But I don't want it delayed. I am sure they will add toddlers. What we should be petitioning instead of a delay is to have the toddlers added in a free patch rather than an EP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by intransitmatt
the more the SimGurus spew shit out of their mouths on twitter, the more I want to cancel my preorder.


I think it's probably genuine lack of knowledge about the essence of past games. You have to immerse in it to understand - reading a potted theorised history is probably all most of them get time to do. Graham I believe joined at the TS3 stage, and may not have ever had first hand experience of earlier games. Certainly not TS1, which was the darkest of all, even the humor was kind of dark (eg clown, mark shark)

"You can do refraction by raymarching through the depth buffer" (c. Reddeyfish 2017)
Instructor
#3111 Old 29th Jun 2014 at 9:16 AM Last edited by Motorcitydude : 29th Jun 2014 at 10:29 AM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimGuruAzure
"Yay multitasking!"

Yay for stuff that was included in TS2, taken out of TS3, and reintroduced in TS4 and passed off as "brand new"! What, did you guys honestly think we wouldn't notice? Did you guys just pretend TS1 and TS2 didn't happen and the series began with The Sims 3: Ballsack Shores Life?
Quote:
Originally Posted by anifromid2
They've said all along that S4 would be for the "casual gamer", that was their focus. But.... the casual gamer (cg) and the serious simmer (ss) both buy Sims 3 at the same time. A few months down the road, ss buys world adventures, and cg picks up the latest harvest moon game for his nintendo. Next trip to the store, cg gets the latest diablo installment, ss buys late night. CG buys a WII game, ss buys a couple stuff packs, cg gets plants vs zombies, ss gets supernatural.... etc, etc. SS supports the modding community, and buys from the Store, while cg has never logged into any of those sites.

Well, I consider myself a "Serious Simmer" (been playing since 2000) and I know there's not a chance in the coldest pits of Hades that I'll buy any expansion packs, whatsoever.
Lab Assistant
#3112 Old 29th Jun 2014 at 10:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inge Jones
I replied to point out to him that in TS1 and TS2 there were premade poor sims living in trailers, and many of us enjoyed playing them.


That was two separate thoughts strung together in a short tweet. The Sims 4 has some trailer park homes in it as well, but not anywhere I'd truly consider "poor". Beyond that though what I'd like to see in the game and what it hasn't had is Sims who recognize things like being rich or being poor in meaningful ways. I'd personally be really interested in exploring something in-game where if you have 500 simoleons to your name compared to 5,000,000 then that Sim acts differently and has different priorities in life. Maybe a poor Sim values family more and finds happiness in the small things while the rich Sim is always chasing the next big purchase to fill a void. How do their traits play into it? How does a Sim feel about being broke? What if the game had genuine homelessness and you weren't forced to own a lot? I wish money was more meaningful past the first few weeks of gameplay. I'd find it really interesting if I could decide the level of wealth of my family in CAS and then depending on your selection the way you started the game would vary in things like the neighborhood you live in, the people who would associate with you, the job opportunities available, etc.

One small thing I pushed for in Sims 4 that's different than Sims 3 is you can no longer just go bulldoze a lot next to a mansion and expect to be able to afford it with your new family. Property value has a more significant impact now.

Anyway, many people appreciate the lighthearted nature of The Sims, but personally I often find myself wanting a life simulation that explores some of the darker themes of life as well. Maybe those nasty parts of life could also get subverted in humorous ways as The Sims is known to do. I feel like there's a ton of untapped material to explore there. As is though, Sims are pretty happy-go-lucky no matter what slice of suburbia they exist in.

Sims Producer Graham Nardone - Follow me on Twitter @SimGuruGraham
Forum Resident
#3113 Old 29th Jun 2014 at 10:05 AM
Hello

Did I miss any bad news today?

Edit: interesting thoughts, Graham. I'd love for Sims to be aware of their financial status.
One horse disagreer of the Apocalypse
#3114 Old 29th Jun 2014 at 10:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimGuruGraham
I'd personally be really interested in exploring something in-game where if you have 500 simoleons to your name compared to 5,000,000 then that Sim acts differently and has different priorities in life.


Oh Graham, wouldn't it be lovely to expand the autonomy system so a Sim who is poor (and set to full autonomy), depending on personality (lazy sim may not bother) to pick up the wretched paper and get themselves a job? Or for that matter, a Sim who has a "whim" to eat mac&cheese actually choose the make mac&cheese interaction from the fridge instead of spag bol? But yeah for 14 years Sims have had no clue about their socio-economic needs

"You can do refraction by raymarching through the depth buffer" (c. Reddeyfish 2017)
Field Researcher
#3115 Old 29th Jun 2014 at 10:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimGuruGraham
Anyway, many people appreciate the lighthearted nature of The Sims, but personally I often find myself wanting a life simulation that explores some of the darker themes of life as well. Maybe those nasty parts of life could also get subverted in humorous ways as The Sims is known to do. I feel like there's a ton of untapped material to explore there. As is though, Sims are pretty happy-go-lucky no matter what slice of suburbia they exist in.


Graham, you may not be able to answer this, but are the 'darker' kinds of things you're discussing elements that get seriously discussed among the Sims team? Or does that veer too far from the goals that are in mind for building the game?

I ask because it seems there are a lot of themes that could expand the game in interesting ways, and that could attract more of an audience. I'm not expecting Sims to suddenly be able to murder other Sims, but I think a lot of people are getting the idea that the game is being geared towards a happy-sunshine-unicorn audience only.
One horse disagreer of the Apocalypse
#3116 Old 29th Jun 2014 at 10:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimGuruGraham
What if the game had genuine homelessness and you weren't forced to own a lot?


From what I've heard you'd not actually be able to implement this in TS4 (or any of the previous games) without a deep code change because in all of them you are forced to open a lot in order to start Live mode. And that is how the active household is selected in the first place.

"You can do refraction by raymarching through the depth buffer" (c. Reddeyfish 2017)
Lab Assistant
#3117 Old 29th Jun 2014 at 10:19 AM
On a side note related to money stuff (and I'm going to keep this short - the spacebar on my keyboard broke today and it's really annoying typing), the consequences of not paying your bills is more severe now. Let your bills go without paying them? First your power gets shut off. Next your water gets shut off. It's a fun scenario to put your Sims in on occasion (they recognize it and get some unique socials about it). The bill upkeep on more expensive homes is harsher than it's been in the past as well, so you truly better be earning enough to support living in one. I hope both those things contribute to greater challenges when you put your Sims in those situations.

Sims Producer Graham Nardone - Follow me on Twitter @SimGuruGraham
One horse disagreer of the Apocalypse
#3118 Old 29th Jun 2014 at 10:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimGuruGraham
On a side note related to money stuff (and I'm going to keep this short - the spacebar on my keyboard broke today and it's really annoying typing), the consequences of not paying your bills is more severe now. Let your bills go without paying them? First your power gets shut off. Next your water gets shut off. It's a fun scenario to put your Sims in on occasion (they recognize it and get some unique socials about it). The bill upkeep on more expensive homes is harsher than it's been in the past as well, so you truly better be earning enough to support living in one. I hope both those things contribute to greater challenges when you put your Sims in those situations.


This is good news! Just one caveat - in TS3, being a famous rock star hardly got you much richer than just working in the bistro! I wasn't able to buy my rock star a much better home than my chef! So I hope there is more difference between lower and higher income in TS4 to cover all this

"You can do refraction by raymarching through the depth buffer" (c. Reddeyfish 2017)
Lab Assistant
#3119 Old 29th Jun 2014 at 10:26 AM
Thanks for your posts, Graham. Unpaid bills resulting in cut-off power and water supply sounds brilliant, honestly. And I agree with Inge, real-life differences between wages should be present in the game as well.

Sorry for the old quote, but I still need to vent about this...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Original_Sim
Grant can't tell the difference between ages and life stages. <snip>

He's working on a Sims game and talking to Sims fans about it - and he doesn't think that maybe those fans want him to use Sims terminology?
Lab Assistant
#3120 Old 29th Jun 2014 at 10:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimGuruGraham
On a side note related to money stuff (and I'm going to keep this short - the spacebar on my keyboard broke today and it's really annoying typing), the consequences of not paying your bills is more severe now. Let your bills go without paying them? First your power gets shut off. Next your water gets shut off. It's a fun scenario to put your Sims in on occasion (they recognize it and get some unique socials about it). The bill upkeep on more expensive homes is harsher than it's been in the past as well, so you truly better be earning enough to support living in one. I hope both those things contribute to greater challenges when you put your Sims in those situations.


Our water being shut off wouldn't be an issue if we had pools, we could just get water from them.

I'M SORRY I HAD TO

On a serious note, I'm loving a lot of the little details. I will say, once you guys get the 'generations' EP and the 'pools' EP out, and bundle them with the sims 4 like the ambitions bundle, I might be interested in this game.

Just, good work on the idea of electricity and water being shut off. That's something that I really do like and find intriguing.
Alchemist
#3121 Old 29th Jun 2014 at 10:29 AM
@Graham no poor sims? So there will be no Brandi Broke? She was always one of my favorites.

Are we even going to get any gameplay video? Before the launch of The Sims 3 we had a lot of gameplay videos but The Sims 4 has none.
And the forbidden question: why was toddlers not a priority in the game?
Field Researcher
#3122 Old 29th Jun 2014 at 10:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimGuruGraham
On a side note related to money stuff (and I'm going to keep this short - the spacebar on my keyboard broke today and it's really annoying typing), the consequences of not paying your bills is more severe now. Let your bills go without paying them? First your power gets shut off. Next your water gets shut off. It's a fun scenario to put your Sims in on occasion (they recognize it and get some unique socials about it). The bill upkeep on more expensive homes is harsher than it's been in the past as well, so you truly better be earning enough to support living in one. I hope both those things contribute to greater challenges when you put your Sims in those situations.


I really like the sound of that. I still have reservations about TS4, but I hope there's more stuff like this in the game (and also to be included in future EPs).
Field Researcher
#3123 Old 29th Jun 2014 at 10:31 AM
So, Will we see some non-staged gameplay from TS4 soon? @SimGuruGraham
Instructor
#3124 Old 29th Jun 2014 at 10:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottAsher
Our water being shut off wouldn't be an issue if we had pools, we could just get water from them.

Ba dum tss!
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimsTias
So, Will we see some non-staged gameplay from TS4 soon?

Part of me wonders they're holding off on doing that, because if they did, people would see through the game for what it really is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by intransitmatt
"Sims traditionally shies away from the difficulties of life"?!
Um no, it was just swept under the rug with TS3 where your sims would never have fears and could get rich by selling rocks and flowers.
I swear, the more the SimGurus spew shit out of their mouths on twitter, the more I want to cancel my preorder.

Well said. Difficulties and conflict are the spices of life. Might as well just have a machine that the sim straps themselves into and increases all their wants and needs. Yay, no difficulties!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inge Jones
Certainly not TS1, which was the darkest of all, even the humor was kind of dark (eg clown, mark shark)

I loved the dark and depressing atmosphere of TS1. Especially the music that played if a sim died or skipped work. Now, everything is happy "bubble cum" and roses and bunny rabbits. Blech.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inge Jones
I think it's probably genuine lack of knowledge about the essence of past games. You have to immerse in it to understand - reading a potted theorised history is probably all most of them get time to do.

Pretty much from the looks if it.
Lab Assistant
#3125 Old 29th Jun 2014 at 10:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimGuruGraham
On a side note related to money stuff (and I'm going to keep this short - the spacebar on my keyboard broke today and it's really annoying typing), the consequences of not paying your bills is more severe now. Let your bills go without paying them? First your power gets shut off. Next your water gets shut off. It's a fun scenario to put your Sims in on occasion (they recognize it and get some unique socials about it). The bill upkeep on more expensive homes is harsher than it's been in the past as well, so you truly better be earning enough to support living in one. I hope both those things contribute to greater challenges when you put your Sims in those situations.



Aaargh!! If only my toddlers were in the game, I'd buy it in a flat second!!
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