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Mad Poster
Original Poster
#1 Old 19th Sep 2017 at 11:34 AM
Default Learning from The Sims 2's various visually-oriented game mods
Hey guys,

So I'm pretty much TS3 only when it comes to my Simming, but it's TS2 that's set the standard for how a Sims game should be. I acknowledge that it's an amazing game with unparalleled gameplay and graphics that have aged very well. And the things the community have been doing to keep it new and exciting after 13 years are awesome. There's just stuff going on here that no one's bothered to try with TS3 (probably because everyone's been so busy trying to fix the awful game performance and the questionable balancing of everything).

And since I have the general impression that this board is full of wise old people who know EXACTLY what they're talking about, I'm looking to learn a thing or two. So there's three mods that interest me in particular:
  • Voeille's Pond, Sea & Water Overhaul, which is an actual shader mod that greatly improves the look of water in the game by using shaders ported from Castaway Stories.
  • Pineapple5050's TS2CustomPostEffect mod, which is a postprocessing shader that actually ties directly into the game. Unlike ReShade, which we use in TS3, this one seems to be part of the game engine, and it's installed as a .package. ReShade, on the other hand, is an external program that runs on top of the game, and it's one-way traffic in that the game doesn't "know" it's there.
  • GunMod's Radiance Light System is an actual lighting model overhaul. It takes TS2's indoor lighting properties above and beyond TS3, and it's exactly the kind of thing TS3 could use.

So I was wondering what I can learn about these mods, and how. How come it's been possible to adjust the various parts of TS2's visuals so extensively? And what similarities are there between TS2 and TS3? If someone can port a shader from Castaway Stories into base TS2, does that mean I can port shaders from Medieval into base TS3?
And conversely, what hasn't been possible to do in TS2? What are certain limitations that have been run into? How come X or Y is definitely possible in one game, but not the other?

I don't know if it makes much sense for me to be asking these questions here, but I've been asking around in various places and I'm very confident that I'll eventually get to learn certain things that will greatly help me in making TS4 look like even more of a worthless overpriced turd.

Thank you

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( Join my dumb Discord server if you're into the whole procrastination thing. But like, maybe tomorrow. )
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Mad Poster
#2 Old 19th Sep 2017 at 4:37 PM Last edited by simmer22 : 19th Sep 2017 at 5:22 PM.
You also have the sky mod and horizons, possibly also a few other visual 'upgrades' to TS2.

As for how the mods are made - I don't know. I assume someone who's good at modding dug aound in the game files, found something they could tinker with, and spewed out awesomeness along with sunshine and rainbows.

Castaway/LifeStories/PetsStories and TS2 use similar game engines (Pets or Seasons, I think?), so they are similar enough for items to be transferred between games, occasionally with some modding involved (I'm not sure if it's possible to do anything sensible with the monkeys or fishing - but I had working trees from the game at one point, with climbing animations). You can also use some TS2 CC for them. SimPE has suppor for the Stories games.

There's a very big difference between TS2 and TS3/4. TS3/4 seem more similar to each other than each of them are to TS2. You can't use animations from TS3/4 in TS2 and opposite because the skeletons are vastly different. I also don't think you can transfer animations between TS3 and TS4. They run on different game engines, and are built up in different ways, so TS1/2/Stories/3/Medieval/4 are not by any means the same games.

As for medieval/TS3, I think they have some common ground, but they're a whole lot more different than TS2 and the Stories games are. The Stories games are TS2 light, while Medieval has a completely different play style and even a different look than TS3. As for shaders, I have no clue.
Alchemist
#3 Old 19th Sep 2017 at 5:05 PM
There's one major thing that hasn't been possible - getting rid of the lot impostors. When you're in a lot, that particular lot's graphics will look nice and crisp, but any surrounding buildings will be low quality blurry blocky things that wouldn't put a strain on 2004 computers. Thus far, no one has figured out a way to make the game permanently generate the sort of HQ neighbors that TS3 and TS4 have.

The blog below has gone into some of the technical aspects of the shader changes.
http://criquette-was-here.tumblr.com/
Mad Poster
Original Poster
#4 Old 19th Sep 2017 at 5:06 PM
Cool, great, I'll make sure to get all of that for my TS2. Except your first link. I'm not going to get that, it doesn't have a download link. I don't download from creators who do not link downloads.
But yes, indeed, it's the latter part of your comment that I'm curious about. I need to know the properly technical, boring stuff that makes the rainbows happen.

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Mad Poster
#5 Old 19th Sep 2017 at 5:16 PM Last edited by simmer22 : 19th Sep 2017 at 7:24 PM.
There aren't a lot of modders around who do the sunshine and rainbows thing with modding ingame graphics and/or other never-before-seen fixes to the game. From the top of my head there's Lowedeus, SimNopke, Criquette, and Chris Hatch (BAS), along with those who make recolors and slight modifications, but I'm probably missing a few.

I do assume you need a genuine interest in modding, a heap of tutorials, figuring out where in the files to dig around, and a fair bit of creativity. If you're fresh into TS2, you may need some time to get to know the game and what already exists for it.
Mad Poster
Original Poster
#6 Old 19th Sep 2017 at 5:33 PM
Quote: Originally posted by omglo
There's one major thing that hasn't been possible - getting rid of the lot impostors. When you're in a lot, that particular lot's graphics will look nice and crisp, but any surrounding buildings will be low quality blurry blocky things that wouldn't put a strain on 2004 computers. Thus far, no one has figured out a way to make the game permanently generate the sort of HQ neighbors that TS3 and TS4 have.
The blog below has gone into some of the technical aspects of the shader changes.
http://criquette-was-here.tumblr.com/

Yes, I assume that'll be a hard limitation in the same way that you simply cannot have lots larger than 64x64 (and isn't it 60x60 in TS2?), and that you can't have more than 5 floors (in TS3 at least). Those are hard engine limits that could theoretically be modded, but likely won't happen.
A lighting engine, however, is a different story in that there isn't anything particularly limited about it. TS3 has two things that kind of pose an annoying restriction, but I strongly suspect they can be solved:
  • The very limited shadow render distance, which is based on screen the final frontier
  • The issue where light generated by objects does not flow between floors
But while I'm familiar with TS2, I'm not in any way passionate about it. So I can't really speak for what it does and doesn't need, or what I do and don't love about it. Right now I'm purely looking into TS2 on a technical level to see if it can teach me anything about TS3.

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Mad Poster
#7 Old 19th Sep 2017 at 7:27 PM Last edited by simmer22 : 19th Sep 2017 at 7:49 PM.
You can have a lot of floors in TS2 (5 is default, but you can get more with the sethighestallowedlevel ## cheat, with any number between 1-30), but there's a wall limit, so you don't reach an unlimited number of floors. There are a couple of workarounds to the wall limit, but they're not ideal, and require some CC.

I honestly think you're approaching your project in a very roundabout way. TS2 and TS3 are fundamentally different in most ways, so learning something about TS2 doesn't mean you also figure out something about TS3. You'd probably be a whole lot better off looking at TS3 for figuring out what to do. The file structures are different, the editing programs are different, the way the game handles lights and shadows is different, and pretty much everything else. It's like looking at the building plans of an IKEA table and expecting to end up with a cabinet.

There are some lighting mods for TS3, like Reshade. Maybe have a look at those?
http://sssvitlans.tumblr.com/tagged/s3lighting%20mod

I'm also pretty sure I saw a fix for the light/room issue somewhere, but I can't remember exactly where. Maybe MTS?
Mad Poster
Original Poster
#8 Old 19th Sep 2017 at 8:22 PM
Quote: Originally posted by simmer22
It's like looking at the building plans of an IKEA table and expecting to end up with a cabinet.

You'd be pretty ignorant to think there'd be nothing to learn that way. Sure, you might not learn to build a cabinet but you'll sure as hell learn about building in general.
And if I had a penny for everyone who's just told me to "use reshade hurr durr" I'd have enough money to buy out EA and have them solve it for me. If ReShade were the answer, I wouldn't be asking any questions.

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Mad Poster
#9 Old 19th Sep 2017 at 9:22 PM Last edited by simmer22 : 19th Sep 2017 at 10:44 PM.
Quote: Originally posted by GrijzePilion
Right now I'm purely looking into TS2 on a technical level to see if it can teach me anything about TS3.


I'm just saying there's probably not very much you'll learn. Comparing TS2 and TS3 is pretty much like comparing TS1 and TS2.TS2 and TS3 had very different game developers, so they don't have a lot in common on a technical level. I'm not saying you won't learn anything at all about modding in general from studying TS2, I'm just saying that you're adding an additional and maybe not entirely necessary step to your process, since the buildup of the games, the entire file structure of the game, and the modding tools are very different. If you are planning to mod for TS2 - sure, go ahead! But if you're only interested in modding for TS3, then I don't quite see the logic. Maybe you see it where I don't, though. It just looks to me like you're taking a very roundabout route via TS2. From what I've seen, TS3 and TS4 have a lot more in common than TS2 has with either of them, particularly considering file structures and programs, so you may be better off studying TS4 (though I'm not sure if TS4 has anything fun to offer in the area you're interesed).

I'm unfamiliar with reshade (having never used it, only heard of it/seen it in pictures), but I know it's some type of lighting mod, and linked to it because there may be something to learn from it in how it is made or how it works. There are also other lighting mods in the link I posted. I wasn't saying "use reshade hur durr", but rather that you may want to have a look at it or other mods that have to do with lights, to figure out how the files are built up and how to modify them, if that's one of your goals. If you happen to be new to modding or you've done some simple things but never mods, looking at the file structure from the game you want to mod will get you where you want much easier and faster.

I've pretty much given up TS3 by now, so I don't have much modding experience with it - but I tried making a simple object a couple of years or so ago, and it really felt like trying to build a cabinet with the plans of a table. While the process was somewhat familiar here and there, nearly every single step on the way was different from TS2, and that was just making an object. When that's said, I had better luck with TS4, probably because Sims4Studio made some sense. As of now I have 10 years worth of experience with making CC (not much in heavy modding, though) for TS2, and I know I haven't learned much I can transfer to making TS3/4 CC without heavy use of tutorials. I may know what I want to do, and have a vague idea of how to go about, but still have to sit down and relearn the process via tutorials. My point is, you can look at the IKEA table model all you want - maybe it's made of wood and have a lot of bolts, nails and square shapes - but it's still not going to turn into a cabinet (even if you may get really good at building tables in the process). I don't doubt that some simmers have a wider understanding of modding that makes them awesome at modding for all the sims games, but that's probably just a handful or so. Most of us have to take the harder route, through tutorials these people have written...

---

Most of the mods you describe take ingame concepts and run wild with it - editing settings up ten notches, fixing broken things, using concepts in new and interesting ways, or enabling previously turned off settings - but most of the time they don't introduce anything that never existed before. I have yet to see one single mod that does something outside of what is possible within the limits of the game engine. They all use some existing part of the game, no matter how amazing and impossible they seem.

TS2 and Castaway are similar enough that you can use elements from one to the other, since the Stories games are more in the area of "light" versions, and not almost entirely new concepts like Medieval is. The pond mod won't work without the ingame pool, for instance, and the shader did exist for a platform that was close enough to TS2.

As I understand it, the Post Effects mod utilizes effects that are inbuilt into the game but not enabled by default. I'm pretty sure some of the effects can be enabled via cheats without the mod, though some of the effects were probably heavily edited by the creator. Maybe they also put together a few things here and there to give the mod an extra sprinkling of fairy dust.

The radiance mod edits the global lighting files used by the game, editing various settings and probably enabling some shaders, fixing how shadows are handled, and whatnots. Not sure if there's any more hocus pocus to it, but I don't think so (even if it may look like magic inside the game).
Mad Poster
Original Poster
#10 Old 19th Sep 2017 at 10:16 PM
No, you're right, I'm definitely seeing a logic that you're not. Besides all the things you might learn about graphics technology and the tools these creators/modders use to create/mod their creations/mods, you're essentially involving them in a process. And when someone is involved in something, they may be inclined to participate. And when they participate, they might be inclined to have an added value in time, creativity, knowledge or whatever else.
The most obvious way to go is to contact the people who've made these things, and see if they can explain their mod to you. Because if they can tell you what parts there are to this IKEA table, if you will, perhaps you can figure out for yourself how you can start to put it back together into a cabinet.
And that doesn't even necessarily need to have anything to do with shader mods - there's other (albeit less significant) ways to improve TS3 visually too. So the reason I made this thread is to see whether I could learn something from these mods whose creators are nowhere to be found. I've messaged both Voeille and Pineapple5050, but it doesn't look like GunMod's anywhere to be found.

And for the record, you don't need to tell me how ReShade works. I've taken it apart and put it back together blindfolded, and there's no part of it that has anything to do with the game itself - though it does get rather exciting when you DO involve the game.

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Mad Poster
#11 Old 19th Sep 2017 at 10:53 PM
Couldn't tell you how ReShade works even if I wanted to - like I said, I've never used it and never had a look at the structure of it.

And yes, you can probably learn something of the process of creating similar mods, but if TS3 is what you want to mod, involving TS2 in the process still sems like a very roundabout way. But by all means, do it if you feel like. Maybe you'll get some ideas and get some creative thinking going, and maybe it helps. Just keep in mind that you still won't be able to do much outside of what the TS3 game engine allows for, though.

As far as I know, Gunmod hasn't been around for several years. I think they left the community somewhere around the last edition of the Radiance system was released.

Not entirely sure if Chris Hatch dabbles in this kind of modding, but he sure knows how to do a lot of other things with TS2 that previously seemed impossible, so perhaps he could be of help?
Instructor
#12 Old 20th Sep 2017 at 2:50 AM
From what I understand of how these lighting mods and such work for TS2, you are replacing game files. Which, I believe was aided/read through the SimPE program. However, I am certainly not a modder so I don't know exactly how they went about reading the files and understanding them. It seems to me that your question should be directed towards, "How did you read the game files and understand what they did for the game?" Once you've understood the games programming is when you're able to alter such programming to do what you want.

If, in fact, the answer of how this programming was read was through SimPE, you're in luck given that TS3 has it's own SimPE. However, given that the two games have two different engines, and thus, programming, I'm not sure how much help modders will be able to be other than possibly explaining how they understood such programming. In which case, it seems to me, the most likely (easy) answer is that they are probably computer programmers. So learning programming in general is the way to do it.

I might one day finish my Zanes Hollow project, but I wouldn't hold my breath. Until then, you can see what I'm up to on my Simblr!
Mad Poster
Original Poster
#13 Old 20th Sep 2017 at 9:34 AM
No it's not that simple. You can speak a language fluently but that won't make you a poet.

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