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Scholar
Original Poster
#1 Old 9th Dec 2013 at 10:07 PM
Default Is my character a Mary Sue?
So I took the Mary Sue litmus test and scored a 34. I was really surprised and I'm not happy with it but I thought I'd get some new opinions without attempting to totally rework my character.
Reasons my character is a Mary Sue:
* She's one of the most powerful beings in her race. There are 100 elements and she can control them all, similar to the Avatar in Avatar: The Last Airbender.
* Because she's the most powerful she'll eventually be the main ruler.
* She was abandoned by her birth parents and adopted by humans.
* Her birth parents were involved in some criminal and anti-government activity and drug trafficking.
* Because she was raised in human culture, she believes in equality more than some of other members of her race.
* She's pretty by human standards--by the standards of her race, she's average though. Or maybe still pretty but not above and beyond.

reasons she is not a Mary Sue:
* She's not very brave at first, and struggles with going into battle throughout the series--she has to work past that and force herself.
* She's not a prodigy at anything
* She has social anxiety, not in a "cute" way, in an actual impeding-life way. She often doesn't want to talk to people or go to social events and is seen as "that weird quiet one" a lot.
* Because of social anxiety and because she's young, things are awkward with her romantic interest. Not bad or dramatic, just awkward. Plus it's not a whirlwind need-you-all-the-time romance.
* Later on in the series, because of what she's seen, she goes through depression and PTSD and becomes withdrawn.
* She can sometimes be lazy and afraid and not want to do things she has to do, skipping out on them with no explanation.
* She's bad with talking about feelings and tends to brush things under the rug, hoping they'll go away. She can be emotionally inhibited and unexpressive.
* She's bad at writing, public speaking, art, and music.

Thanks to anyone who replies. I'm just curious to see what unbiased people would think. Also, the reason she's the most powerful being in her race is because it's kind of necessary to the plot line...I know it's a cliche, but there's kind of a reason it is.

“Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.”
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Née whiterider
retired moderator
#2 Old 10th Dec 2013 at 1:13 PM
I'm not gonna offer an opinion on how Mary-Sueish your character is, because I'd have no idea without reading your story(ies). But since almost all characters have a certain degree of Mary-Sueness, I'll suggest some things which can be done to de-Mary-Sue a character, if you like.

In terms of her being the most powerful, perhaps you can make it not innate? A character I'm working on at the moment was a middle-of-the-road mage to begin with, then for her own reasons started taking drugs to quash her magical powers. In what I'm referring to as "the moldy peanut effect" (props to anyone who gets the reference), when she comes off the drugs she ends up reacting and ending up with much stronger powers than she ever had before. In the context of the Mary-Sue test that releases her from the 'impervious to normal limitations', 'simply the best' and 'chosen one' options.

Also, a lot of Mary-Sueness is less about your character's character and personality and more about what s/he does, or has done in his/her backstory. You can get a lot desuifiers that way .

If she's the most powerful of her race and will one day be the leader, why did her parents abandon her? If they were part of an anti-government movement, then for their cause, bringing up the future leader of the world with amazeballs magical powers would have been a wonderful thing. Even if her parents hadn't wanted her, you'd think a more politically aware member of their movement would take her in instead. Or was her power and fate discovered later? If so, how? Are humans generally in possession of the knowledge required to recognise such a rare person among a foreign race? You can do a lot with a character who has abilities which neither she, nor anyone around her, recognises or understands.

If they did recognise her - how did they know what to do to get her recognised as a future leader by her people's government? Usually, selection of leaders, even when in theory it's just a case of strongest wins, involves a lot of politics. Perhaps you should consider making it more difficult for your character, as an outsider to her own people who doesn't share their culture or their traditions, to achieve the level of acceptance required for her right to rule to be recognised.

Your character is a Chosen One, and that always makes it difficult to write the character well. I don't write Chosen Ones, because I just cannot do a good job of it. Most of the really amazing stories I've read have protagonists who are nothing special to begin with, but through their experiences they develop remarkable personal characteristics, which lead them to take on responsibilities which could just as well be someone else's. Some of them look like a chosen one, but it turns out that they've achieved that veneer through deception - one of my favourite characters ever, for example, seems to be the most powerful magician in the world; but then it turns out that he has been illegally stealing magic from others to increase his own strength in order to gain political power. In the end, though, you realise that he carried out this deception to protect his people - from a threat that he knew would never be taken seriously, if he tried to confront it openly. If you've already read Trudi Canavan's books or don't intend to, click the spoiler button:

I won't suggest specific changes to your character based on this, but it's just something to think about.

There's also another element I'd like to mention. A Mary-Sue is not necessarily a perfect character. Mary-Sues can also be characters who are in an incredibly privileged position, but don't appreciate that because of trauma and great personal challenges. In the end, though, they overcome their seemingly insurmountable challenges to fulfil their destiny and/or potential and <insert great deed here>. Like the person who wrote the test says, none of those elements on its own is a bad thing. But the problem is that the great deed is pretty much necessary: there are few stories, especially in fantasy, which don't involve the protagonist saving the day at some stage. So you have to have your character achieve something remarkable. Then, if you start with a character who has lots of trauma and great personal challenges, you end up forced into letting them overcome those challenges because somehow they have to achieve something great - and then suddenly you have a Mary-Sue .
I guess to some degree, all characters are somewhere on the Mary-Sue scale. But there are a few things you can try to reduce the Mary-Sueness of a character:
LOTS OF SPOILERS IN THIS SECTION. I'll mark each bullet point with the story/series it spoils.
  • MISTBORN spoiler: Reduce the innate privilege, or offset their innate advantages/powers/etc, with innate disadvantages - for example, Brandon Sanderson's Vin, who has powerful magic (but not uniquely powerful - she's as powerful as other Mistborn, but there aren't many Mistborn), but was born poor and socially outcast, is an orphan, and was contaminated with evil magic by her own mother. This is a great example of the 'Mary-Sue scale' - because Vin is only a little further away from Mary-Sue on that scale than your character; both have powerful magic, but your character is uniquely powerful; both are parentless, but while Vin was always poor, your character presumably would have lived a privileged life if her parents hadn't abandoned her.
  • IMMORTALS and HUNGER GAMES spoiler: Don't let the character overcome her challenges by herself. It's kind of a bad example, but the one that comes to mind: Tamora Pierce's Daine has magic which she can't control, which drives her mad for a time. In the end, she achieves control over her magic - but only because her tutor builds a barrier between her magic and her mind. She couldn't have done it herself. Or, sticking with YA fiction for some reason I can't fathom, Suzanne Collins' Katniss, who can fight, but would never have survived the first part of the first book without Cinna teaching her how to work a stage.
  • Don't let her completely overcome her challenges. Resolve them in some other way - my character who I described above, for example, will eventually have her powers return naturally to what they were before, which will get her out of a sticky situation in which a secretive group wants her to Do Evil for them. Ofc, her newly-developed morality will still push her into reinvolving herself with all that shit.
  • AGE OF THE FIVE spoiler: Or, turn her 'disadvantages' round so they become advantages. Have her fulfil what has been perceived throughout the story as her potential for failure. Another Trudi Canavan character (I know, but I love her writing), Auraya, ends up part of the theocratic ruling council of an empire. Since day one, she has been worried that she'll be perceived as a traitor because of her close friendship with a heathen in the past. In the end, though, she realises that the heathen was right, the theocracy is wrong, and she becomes a traitor indeed - and in doing so releases the world from war and oppression.
  • Make her bad decisions unjustified. You have a list of character flaws, but they're all flaws which make me feel sorry for your character. Mental illnesses and fear make me wish your character didn't have it so hard. It seems like being lazy and afraid is meant to be the most blameworthy flaw, but you'll have difficulty making readers who've experienced depression see it as a flaw - laziness is something that lots of depressed people are accused of, because depression saps your will, energy, and ability to face even slightly difficult things. A real character flaw won't make you wish your character could overcome these things to fulfil her potential, it will make you think she's stupid and wrong and frustrating. Just like all real people are occasionally.
  • Compromise her success. Have her miss her 'stretch goal' as a result of her own personal failings. And not in a "Ah well, you did your best, and you still achieved great things" way - in a "Well, you averted the disaster, but you did so in the messiest imaginable way and now you and others hate you for it" way.

I'm sure there are lots more things which could be on this list, but it's 1pm and I haven't done anything I planned to do with this morning apart from folding one sheet (because it was in the way of my bookcase).

What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact.
Scholar
Original Poster
#3 Old 10th Dec 2013 at 7:38 PM
First, explanation:
My character receives her power only once she enters the magical world. So no one knows she will or would have it until she gets there (this is true for all Elshia--her race--in the world, not just her). Her birth parents couldn't have known, no humans could've known, no Elshia could've known. She's not exactly 'foretold in a prophecy' except that everyone knows someone has to be the most powerful. Additionally, she doesn't really have chronic depression, she just goes through one episode at one point in the series.

I get what you mean with the flaws thing, too--see, I'm not sure if I want to make her impulsive and brash (drives the story, can cause lots of conflict) or not (I can't relate well to impulsive characters because I'm one of the least impulsive people out there). But having her make stupid decisions sometimes isn't really a flaw in my opinion because everyone does that...I guess it is a flaw but it's so universal I didn't include it since it's a given.

Also, she's not automatically great at everything and doesn't know how to control her power at first. As far as innate disadvantages, there's that she's been raised in the human world and has no knowledge of Elshlish culture, making her seem somewhat strange. Like with Katniss, she has to be taught how to manage in a new culture and new language and all that.

Thanks so much for your response, it was really helpful!

“Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.”
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Scholar
#4 Old 30th Jan 2014 at 12:01 AM
I always thougt a Mary-Sue was a self-insert of an author who saves the day without actually having the powers to do so to begin with (and perhaps she gets the maincharacter into bed). There´s nothing wrong with author-inserts if done tastefully, like Nonna and Adar in Elfquest. The problems start when such characters get too overpowered.
Now according to page linked in the test´s introduction the concept seems to include all characters who recieve preferential treatment from the author? Is that just the personal opinion of the test designer or is this the official definition? I think I have a few Sims that should seriously consider changing their names to Mary-Sue then
Lab Assistant
#5 Old 11th Jul 2014 at 10:41 PM
I don't think your character is a Mary-Sue. Mary Sues (I think) are perfect characters, no flaws whatsoever. Since your character has flaws, she is not a Mary Sue in my opinion. Just overpowered XP
Scholar
#6 Old 14th Jul 2014 at 1:53 PM
Being the chosen one/the one to rule them all doesn't neccessarily make a character a Mary Sue. I mean somebody's gotta do it, and you don't see people going around calling Obama a mary sue. You just have to be careful with this type of character.
There's been a lot of great advice in this thread already, but incase you want more I'd advice you to check this: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.p...WritingAMarySue http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.p...onMarySueTraits
I wanna highlight this part:
The author should care about her characters to some degree. But Mary Sues are fundamentally about authoral favoritism. If the author falls in love with one of her characters over the others (particularly for a story about a group), then she's skating on thin ice.
From what I've read it doesn't seem like that's the case with your character.
And I just wanna say, thank you for the social anxiety thing. As someone with SA, it's really hurtful when people attribute it to their characters just to make them seem more quirky/cute, or only have it impact the character on a superficial level. Not a day goes by where I wish I didn't have to live with this, so it feels like a huge slap in the face when people make it out to be a desirable condition to have.

by the way, that Mary Sue test is fun stuff. My own characters have a tendency to go too far in the other direction. Several of them actually score in the negatives


EDIT: Herp derp I just noticed this thread had been necroed. Sorry.

“I MAY BE A HOGWARTS STUDENT" Hargirid paused angrily. "BUT I AM ALSO A SATANIST!”
Falco - The original Prombat
Scholar
Original Poster
#7 Old 21st Jul 2014 at 4:03 AM
haha I was randomly in this forum and saw my old thread, no worries! And I have a bit of social anxiety myself and my sister and dad both have social anxiety so you don't have to worry about me trivializing it or making it quirky or cute. It's pretty awful and I'm immensely glad I don't have more of it! I do have about 26,000 words now so I think it's a bit late to change fundamental aspects of her character but I appreciate your and everyone's input

“Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.”
bleed-in-ink.tumblr.com
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