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Lab Assistant
Original Poster
#1 Old 27th Feb 2013 at 12:55 AM
Why isn't Sims 3 hair animated?
I was just curious if anyone knows why the hair in The Sims 3 isn't animated, the way it was in The Sims 2? I miss that feature.
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Instructor
#2 Old 27th Feb 2013 at 12:58 AM
From what I've heard, it is, but it's pretty much unnoticeable. Which is a shame, I always liked having my hairs in TS2 float around...when it was done properly, of course.

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Mad Poster
#3 Old 27th Feb 2013 at 2:18 AM
Hair is very much static int he Sims 3. Probably to cut down on the rendering in the game, but only EA knows for sure.

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Theorist
#4 Old 27th Feb 2013 at 3:05 AM
Quote: Originally posted by magglepaggle
I was just curious if anyone knows why the hair in The Sims 3 isn't animated, the way it was in The Sims 2? I miss that feature.


Animated as in how? I don't remember my sims hairs doing anything in Sims 2. They were as rigid as they are in Sims 3. Am I missing something or did that come with an EP I didn't get like Uni or Pets?

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Mad Poster
#5 Old 27th Feb 2013 at 3:56 AM
Simple answer: 'Cause EA is lazy.

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Eminence Grise
#6 Old 27th Feb 2013 at 4:03 AM
I'd be willing to bet the answer is performance... would add too much to the minimum system specs.

Very hard to do it right, too (fully taking gravity into account; swimming, lifting weights, sleeping etc etc would all need individual animations per hair). And all that nice CC hair you can get? I bet we'd only have a fraction of the amount if the creators had to provide several animations for it as well as mesh and texture it; animation's a skillset very few modders have.

However, I agree it would be highly desirable, as would cloth animations for all the clothes. And if the game had real physics, you could have PROCEDURAL animations, so you wouldn't have to do them all separately. Maybe in TS4 :p
Instructor
#7 Old 27th Feb 2013 at 4:31 AM
That might be one of the reasons there seems to be no word on a Sims 4 yet and they seem in no hurry to stop making stuff for the Sims 3. If they were to do a physics engine in the game it would take quite a bit of work.
Eminence Grise
#8 Old 27th Feb 2013 at 4:54 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Spiritbw
If they were to do a physics engine in the game it would take quite a bit of work.


Most modern 3D games have SOME kind of physics engine. They wouldn't have to start completely from scratch Although not many support cloth and hair physics (in real time as opposed to pre-processed that is), it's not unknown.
Rogue Redeemer
retired moderator
#9 Old 27th Feb 2013 at 7:43 AM
I don't think there really is any valid reason why EA couldn't have animated the hair. If it's about performance, the graphic settings can already be adjusted on other visual things so the level of hair animation would go along those lines (like the quality of sim textures, trees, water, reflections and so on). Or think of how the pet fur textures work on different kinds of specs!

TS2 hair was animated to move along the sim's movements. Like when they'd turn their head, hair strands would slightly move accordingly, in that 'floating' style you see in most video games. TS3 hair doesn't do that at all, it's completely static. Clothes don't move at all either... Honestly, TS3 animations really suck overall, it's all very gangly, awkward and with a lot of clipping. Like when sims 'kiss', they just eat the air! And don't even get me started on the 'smile' of TS3 sims...

And really, TS3 sims are anyway far from good quality textures and customization. The skin, eyes, hair and clothes textures... it's all pudding. Maybe it's so that EA can sell the game to big clientele of casual gamers with low end machines, who knows. But the fact is, they could do A LOT better if they'd want to.
Mad Poster
#10 Old 27th Feb 2013 at 10:40 AM
IT . . . WAS SUPPOSED TO . . . BE . . . *gasps for breath* ANIMATED . . . /lets out scream about the one major thing that i really really really was upset about upon launch like oh my god you have no idea

They promoted hair that blew in the wind when you ran and everything. I spent DAYS jogging around town with my sim. Nothing.


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Test Subject
#11 Old 27th Feb 2013 at 10:47 AM
Do you know how expensive it is to have animated hair?

Creating Aki Ross was itself a massive endeavour because computer software had to deployed to create more than 60,000 hairs in her head.

The film(Final Fantasy) represents the culmination of almost four years' work, costing well over $100m, undertaken by Hironobu Sakaguchi's Square Pictures to achieve state-of-the-art photo-real human characters.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/1433493.stm
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retired moderator
#12 Old 27th Feb 2013 at 10:57 AM
It's not necessary to have that level of animation, though. They could have done a much simplified version of hair animation, closer to TS2 than FF, for much less money.

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Test Subject
#13 Old 27th Feb 2013 at 11:03 AM
Quote: Originally posted by whiterider
It's not necessary to have that level of animation, though. They could have done a much simplified version of hair animation, closer to TS2 than FF, for much less money.


Who knows, TS3 is already a very demanding game, probably devs thought that this resource-eating feature is unnecessary. And seeing 5-10 minute download time I tend to agree.
Top Secret Researcher
#14 Old 27th Feb 2013 at 11:17 AM
Sims 3 engine may not be able to handle it as it has very noticeble graphics and meshing problems at times while playing the game. Another reason could be that EA have made it impossible for anyone to create it in cc hair or they are planning add it in later EXp hair.

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Rogue Redeemer
retired moderator
#15 Old 27th Feb 2013 at 2:19 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Artimis
Sims 3 engine may not be able to handle it as it has very noticeble graphics and meshing problems at times while playing the game. Another reason could be that EA have made it impossible for anyone to create it in cc hair or they are planning add it in later EXp hair.


Well animated hair sure didn't prevent from having CC hair for TS2! Having animated hair doesn't by any means exclude having non-animated hair. You can animate it, but you don't have to.

Having a subtle floating effect like in TS2 would not be a big push for performance. If you think about it, actually it could be very similar to the moving trees and plants of TS3. And maybe with a low end PC, the hair simply wouldn't move anyway. There's settings for various graphics, of which one is sim textures. Maybe that set to below 'high' you wouldn't see hair animations.

Slightly moving hair would be a very simple thing compared to the many complex things of TS3 like Pet routing, weather related routing, weather changes, scripted systems like Showtime performances... Sim and world graphics are not the heaviest aspect on game performance, it's the actual game functions. And yeah, TS3 engine leaves a lot to be desired, but that's a whole another thread there... Anyway, visuals alone aren't generally the big culprit for slowing performance.
Theorist
#16 Old 27th Feb 2013 at 2:47 PM
I think Sims 3 hair is not animated because some project manager held a meeting, asked programmers and meshers, "How much time will it take to animate the hair?" Programmers and meshers said, "it will take X amount of time." Project manager then decides, "it's not going to have any impact on whether or not anyone purchases the game, so therefore not value added. Scrap it." Project manager then schedules programmer and meshers' time with what he feels are more worthwhile projects.

At least, that's how things go down at my work. Project managers often cut features that may be desirable, but do not add enough perceived value to be worth the time. Time is money. I figure this is even more the case in the cutthroat corporate world.

However, I don't think it would be difficult from a technical standpoint. I seem to remember a pretty recent game that had better hair animations than TS2 and didn't stress my machine. I'm thinking it may have been Saints Row The Third.

Resident wet blanket.
Top Secret Researcher
#17 Old 27th Feb 2013 at 3:49 PM
We don't even have romantic cut scenes, and you want your sims' locks to flutter in the breeze?

TS2 and TS3: Where adult sims potty train their toddlers.
TS4: Where adult sims make Angry Poops.

Which game is made for the juvenile minded?
Top Secret Researcher
#18 Old 27th Feb 2013 at 4:44 PM
Hairs are way more important than romantic cut scenes (Zigersimmer, are you CLP undercover?). Yeah I remember the render of the female sim jogging with the ponytail in the wind propaganda. I too was deceived when I discovered that it was bullsh*t.I also remember that Sims2's hair wasn't animated from the start. Can't remember what expansion it came with but it wasn't early, maybe middle lifespan of Sims 2. Since another apartments fiasco bullsh*t is coming maybe EA will throw magic dust and make animated hair as a diversion.... *hope*
Top Secret Researcher
#19 Old 27th Feb 2013 at 5:06 PM
I know you can get it in cc for sims 2 but I am mainly talking adout maxis content hairs and every computer I put it on has a problem with sims 3.

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Lab Assistant
Original Poster
#20 Old 27th Feb 2013 at 5:48 PM
Wow, thanks everyone for the input! Glad to know I'm not the only one who misses this subtlety.

Srikandi - those physics would be such a dream come true! haha

Sounds about right, Gnat, I wish there was more to it though. Especially since this feature existed in Sims 2. Even if it didn't animate in the wind, and just bounced around in CAS I'd be happy. Bah, oh well, at least Sims 3 hair's recolorable, right? haha
Mad Poster
#21 Old 27th Feb 2013 at 8:44 PM
When I installed the Sims 2 earlier last year, it came as a shock to me that the hair moved. (It had been ages since I played it last.) Even those ugly pigtails that stick straight out moved! Left me feeling a little cheated by the Sims 3, although I would probably turn it off in the options if they had it in the Sims 3. I flip out over any signs of lag, and I usually pick performance over graphics.

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Lab Assistant
#22 Old 27th Feb 2013 at 11:21 PM
I don't know what Sims 2 game you guys played o.O
My sims hair in The Sims 2 was animated from the base game, without ay patches or anything!
Instructor
#23 Old 27th Feb 2013 at 11:27 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Srikandi
Most modern 3D games have SOME kind of physics engine. They wouldn't have to start completely from scratch Although not many support cloth and hair physics (in real time as opposed to pre-processed that is), it's not unknown.


True, but it seems like Maxis has a thing for building their own engines for some reason. Both Spore and the upcoming Simcity had custom built engines to run them. If they stay to that formula for Sims 4 I wouldn't be suprised.
Mad Poster
#24 Old 28th Feb 2013 at 3:11 AM
I...had no idea TS2 hair was animated.

Top Secret Researcher
#25 Old 28th Feb 2013 at 4:15 PM
Quote: Originally posted by MiniMimi
(Zigersimmer, are you CLP undercover?)

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TS2 and TS3: Where adult sims potty train their toddlers.
TS4: Where adult sims make Angry Poops.

Which game is made for the juvenile minded?
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