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Lab Assistant
Original Poster
#1 Old 18th Feb 2006 at 10:24 AM Last edited by phoenix_phaerie : 25th Feb 2006 at 1:55 AM. Reason: to remove old files
Default Problems with counter creation
So far my induction into object making doesn't seem to be going well. I just can't seem to get things going. I am working on a counter, and granted, maybe I should have started with a vase or something, but when I get going on an idea, it's hard for me to turn back!
It seems like I have a laundry list of issues, but I guess I'll try to focus on the most important ones.

I have two problems that keep blocking my way no matter where I turn. If anyone can give me a solution to ONE of them, I'd be happy.

#1-This is the one I'd rather find the solution to: I use max to create my objects, but the .obj exporter I downloaded for max doesn't work so well. I also tried Rhinegold3d's converter and THAT didn't work either. Each time the mesh was invisible when I imported into SimPE, even after I renamed them.
So I decided to try opening the 3ds files into milkshape and exporting them as .obj files, but when I do that the mesh just shows up in SimPE as a black box! I've tried everything, but I can't get my 3ds meshes to show properly in SimPE when I convert them .obj files.

#2-Irony of ironies, my .3ds files import PERFECTLY into SimPE, but only if I import them into milkshape first. So I figured that all I needed to do was find a good mapping tool for .3ds files. WRONG! More issues. I downloaded Lithunwrap and was able to map my mesh. Using milkshape, I reassembled all the groups. But when I import the regrouped mesh into SimPe, the .3ds files have some bizarre smoothing effect on them. This smoothing doesn't appear when I import .3ds files into SimPE that are exported straight from milkshape. It only happens when I use lithunwrap to map them. The smoothing is incredibly distracting. It creates weird shadows on the mesh, especially along the triangular faces.

I really feel like I can't catch a break. Everytime I think I've found a solution to one problem, another crops up. I've seriously been working on this one counter for 5 days now, and I'm just going in circles.

I'm going to attach the files I'm working with. The mesh I made with max and the textures I'd like to map to it, just in case anyone would like to take a stab at this and tell me what I'm doing wrong.

edit: the little brown square is meant for the handles. It didn't show up alongside the other two.
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Instructor
#2 Old 18th Feb 2006 at 11:04 AM
#1 - why do you use obj exporter? Obj2max exporter I've found does weird things to meshes too, so I use SimPE built-in Skankyboy 3ds exporter and 99% happy with it. You can also use MeshTool and smd format to export/import.
#2 - Max already has a mapping tool why do you need an additional one?
As for the weird smooth, did you try to set smoothing groups in Max?

Took a look at your 3ds file.
1) Why do you use that many vertices? It's always a good idea to keep vertice count low.
2) Applied 'STL Check' modifier to 'drawer' mesh and it showed 152 errors, all open edges; 69 errors on 'right' mesh, 117 errors on 'body'. Wow, I never had that much 8-[ ]
I suggest you to eliminate those errors first - sure, even Maxis objects have some open edges (they remove polygons that aren't visible - to reduce vertex/face count), but that's definitely too much. The less errors you have, the more chances that mesh will import/export correctly.
Lab Assistant
Original Poster
#3 Old 18th Feb 2006 at 1:02 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Jasana_BugBreeder
#1 - why do you use obj exporter? Obj2max exporter I've found does weird things to meshes too, so I use SimPE built-in Skankyboy 3ds exporter and 99% happy with it. You can also use MeshTool and smd format to export/import.
#2 - Max already has a mapping tool why do you need an additional one?
As for the weird smooth, did you try to set smoothing groups in Max?

Took a look at your 3ds file.
1) Why do you use that many vertices? It's always a good idea to keep vertice count low.
2) Applied 'STL Check' modifier to 'drawer' mesh and it showed 152 errors, all open edges; 69 errors on 'right' mesh, 117 errors on 'body'. Wow, I never had that much 8-[ ]
I suggest you to eliminate those errors first - sure, even Maxis objects have some open edges (they remove polygons that aren't visible - to reduce vertex/face count), but that's definitely too much. The less errors you have, the more chances that mesh will import/export correctly.


Well, I only attempted to us .obj format because of uvmapper. Yes, max has its own mapping tool, but you can only map one texture. My counter has three (including the counter top). I can't create a usuable uv map with max, hence my need for uvmapper.

The smoothing thing only occurs when I use lithunwrap to map .3ds files. I have no clue why.

And as for the errors, I'm really lost on that. I built the mesh using only lofts and simple shapes like boxes and cylinders that I edited using certain boolean commands. I have no idea why there'd be so many errors or how to fix them.
I'm not used to using max for gaming purposes. I guess I haven't learned to look for that stuff. Would you mind elaborating a bit?
Instructor
#4 Old 18th Feb 2006 at 3:34 PM
Quote: Originally posted by phoenix_phaerie
Yes, max has its own mapping tool, but you can only map one texture. My counter has three (including the counter top).
Hm, looks like I don't understand something - could you please explain how are you planning to make single subset use more than one texture in SimPe? Counter top - first subset, first texture; counter body - second subset, second texture; handles - third subset and texture.
Quote: Originally posted by phoenix_phaerie
I built the mesh using only lofts and simple shapes like boxes and cylinders that I edited using certain boolean commands. I have no idea why there'd be so many errors or how to fix them.

Probably your errors are due to Boolean - it is known to produce buggy outputs, especially when it gets something buggy (result of another Boolean). Whenever you do a convert of boolean result, you should try to weld vertices and do STL check to make sure that nothing was broken.
With your existing object, you probably could fix all errors by Weld - but it might be easier to redo it from scratch.
Select an object, switch to Vertex mode and find Weld group there. Set weld limit to 0.01 - with current limit 0.1 you'll likely lose all your object (Maxis cell fits in the box with length=width=1 and height=3). Save often; when Weld has too much work to do, Max often hangs Select the vertices you want to weld - better by small portions - and do 'Weld selected'.
For example, I just welded your 'body' object and got 58 vertices instead of 216. STL Check showed no errors after it. Try to do the same for other objects.
By the way - for this particular object, I'd say that applying Extrude and Bevel to polygons would be much easier and faster than loft and boolean - and definitely no open edges. Try it in the future
To join objects into one, use Attach or Attach List.
I don't know anything about counters object structure in SimPE - worked with simple objects only so far - but, if the doors are separate subsets, then I should warn you about one more thing. Max's Tools->Mirror is evil - if you did left door from right using it, and not going to regroup them into single object, the mirrored door would look mirrored in SimPE and in game. Instead, you should clone and use Mirror modifier. I've read about it somewhere a while ago, and stumbled on it when was making a window.

If you have any other questions related to Max, feel free to ask.
Scholar
#5 Old 18th Feb 2006 at 5:42 PM
um you can map as many textures as you want in max's uv unwrapper. i've made stuff that has up to 10 textures once.
Lab Assistant
Original Poster
#6 Old 18th Feb 2006 at 10:45 PM Last edited by phoenix_phaerie : 19th Feb 2006 at 12:02 AM. Reason: to add more specifics to my question
Quote: Originally posted by ToRnado
um you can map as many textures as you want in max's uv unwrapper. i've made stuff that has up to 10 textures once.


Really? Can you explain that to me? I've only used the uvw map modifier to map my meshes. My concern is being able to make a single texture that can be imported into SimPE that contains each of the three parts that I'd like to use. If I can do that with max, that'd be terrific.

eta: In order for my counter to be mapped properly in Simpe, I have to create a VERY specific texture map. It needs to be 512x512. The Maxis counter top uses approximately the first half of the map (256x512). However, I have to map my counter so that it knows to take its texture from the bottom half of the texture image. I know how to do something like that in uvmapper and lithunwrap, but not in max. Do have any info? Or at least a nice online tutorial?
Scholar
#7 Old 19th Feb 2006 at 3:24 AM
it's hard to explain but try reading this tutorial it explains it a bit

http://www.pandorasims.net/Tutorial.../textmaps.shtml

um how to explain you have to use groups than in the uv wrapper you assgn these groups to the textures. than just make sure all the maps on the uv unwrapper are just placed correctly inside the green box. anyway the tutorial should explain some of it.
Lab Assistant
Original Poster
#8 Old 19th Feb 2006 at 5:15 AM
Thanks for the link, but I managed to figure it out for myself. I'm surprised at how easy it was. I'm such a bonehead.
Lab Assistant
Original Poster
#9 Old 25th Feb 2006 at 1:53 AM Last edited by phoenix_phaerie : 25th Feb 2006 at 2:18 AM.
Well, I'm having another issue regarding these counters. I thought I'd post them here rather than starting up a new thread.

I really would like to recolor of these counters, but I tried it using SimPe's recolor wizard and started up my game, only to find my recolor was not there. I even made sure to update all MMATs when I registered my new GUIDs for the counters. I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong.

I've included a .rar file so that more experienced creators might be able to help me out with this.
Attached files:
File Type: rar  tuscancounter_files.rar (559.3 KB, 15 downloads)
Part-time Hermit
#10 Old 25th Feb 2006 at 6:13 AM
Wizards of SimPE can't be used for recoloring custom objects. You need to use Object Workshop instead. When you open it, instead of clicking Start like with Maxis recolors, click Open and browse to where your mesh file is, then continue like with any other recolor.
Lab Assistant
Original Poster
#11 Old 25th Feb 2006 at 7:57 AM
Quote: Originally posted by IgnorantBliss
Wizards of SimPE can't be used for recoloring custom objects. You need to use Object Workshop instead. When you open it, instead of clicking Start like with Maxis recolors, click Open and browse to where your mesh file is, then continue like with any other recolor.


I'm sorry, I didn't mean to say that I used the wizard. I actually did click 'open' in Object Workshop.
Would you mind looking at the files I attached? It contains my original counter and the recolor I attempted to make. I just don't know what I did incorrectly. I thought I followed all the directions =/
Part-time Hermit
#12 Old 25th Feb 2006 at 9:56 AM
I'm at work now and not able to look at packages. However, you should open the object mesh package and take a look at the value in the MMATs for the line called "guid". Does the number match the master GUID of your object? If not, you can copy and paste it there manually (then commit and save). When you change the guid in the MMAT, you will also have to edit the MMATs of the recolors packages. Or, alternatively create whole new recolor packages.
Lab Assistant
Original Poster
#13 Old 26th Feb 2006 at 2:06 AM
Well, I checked the GUIDs and they seem to match. I even tried to make another recolor and it didn't show up. I'm still lost on what's wrong here.
Part-time Hermit
#14 Old 26th Feb 2006 at 8:21 AM
The MMAT GUIDs are not pointing to the master GUID of the object, which is 0x001BE202. It has to point to the main GUID or the recolors will not work .
Lab Assistant
Original Poster
#15 Old 26th Feb 2006 at 8:42 AM
Quote: Originally posted by IgnorantBliss
The MMAT GUIDs are not pointing to the master GUID of the object, which is 0x001BE202. It has to point to the main GUID or the recolors will not work .


Duh, duh, duh! *facepalm* I'm such an idiot! Thank you so much! IgnorantBliss to the rescue once again!
Lab Assistant
#16 Old 27th Feb 2006 at 9:40 PM
Default Also having probs with counters
Hi

Ive made a kitchen counter with numenors template. I used the master one with 3 different counters. Doors and cupboards, just doors and a false one.

My problem is with recolours. Ive checked the mmts and guids all match etc. but only one of the counters is showing recoloured. I have looked at the overrides and it seems only one counter is there in its clean and dirty states both counter and top. Im not sure how I can get the other counters to colour.

Ive had a request from someone wanting to recolour it. So any help is appreciated.

Thanks
Mummysim
Attached files:
File Type: zip  Nutmeg kitchen counter (template by Numenor) Mummysim.zip (320.5 KB, 12 downloads)
Field Researcher
#17 Old 28th Feb 2006 at 2:04 PM
I've never used Numenor's templates but after looking at your file and looking at his instructions it seems you forgot to do step 6:
Quote:
Now you have to select, in turn all the GMNDs whose name ends with "tslocator", *except* the first one; for each GMND, select the "tsMaterialsMeshName" block and edit the two String values, replacing each occurrence of "[CustomName]" with your own ModelName (the one that you have copied earlier); be sure to preserve intact the ##0x1c050000! prefix
Lab Assistant
#18 Old 28th Feb 2006 at 5:45 PM
Thanks SimsAddict. Ill give that a whirl. I cant recall any instructions Ill look again for them. Thanks again.

Mummysim x
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