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Test Subject
Original Poster
#1 Old 1st Mar 2010 at 8:44 PM
Default SketchUp to 3ds mapping
Hi,

I'm trying to learn how to mesh. Some years ago I used SketchUp from Google to create some projects, and now I want to know if I can use this experience for The Sims.

I have the Pro version of SketchUp that lets me export from the specific extension of this program to 3DS Max extension, that I can open with Milkshape and then export to the Sims 3.

As I see, all the objects of SketchUp are already like "mapped". They all have the textures assigned to each piece of the object.

I'd like to know if there's any way to export the mapping from SketchUp to then import it in the Sims without having to map again the object with the UVMapper. Every time I try to map something with the UVMapper the map doesn't match, It's so difficult for me this step.

By the way, I've observed that in 3DS Max or in Milkshape when I import a .3ds object that I've done with SketchUp the colours and textures appear still in those programs applied to the object, so it seems the mapping does export but I don't know how to get it as a plain image to import it then in the Sims.

Also if there isn't any way to use the mapping of SketchUp and I have to remap again on the UVMapper every mesh, I'd like to know if there's any good tutorial of mapping out there that helps me to understand how does this work and why always the objects have the textures moved.

Thanks in advance! and sorry because I think I haven't explained myself in a comprehensive way.
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Alchemist
#2 Old 1st Mar 2010 at 10:24 PM
If you have the Pro version I think you might be in business without much fuss. I could be wrong, since I'm not very familiar with Sketchup, but I think that supports obj right?

If so, you can decompile your MLODs and MODL, import those into Milkshape, save them as obj, and then import that obj into Sketchup where you do your modeling work.

Then, when you're done with your modeling and mapping, resave the object as an obj, and then export that.

Back in Milkshape you can first import the original object (you need its joint) and then import your obj in as well. Delete the original object, assign its joint to your object and then save it by overwriting the original MLOD or the MODL.

The obj file should carry any mapping you gave it from Sketchup to Milkshape.

The joint assignment thing is a click of a button for most objects so don't let that part worry you.

I hope that helps.
Test Subject
Original Poster
#3 Old 2nd Mar 2010 at 7:00 AM
Orangemittens, thanks for your help! I understood the process of importation and exportation, but what I need is to get the mask in an image format. I export the mesh from Milkshape to SketchUp, and then to SketchUp to Milkshape. During all this process it carries the mapping, but when I import it in the game the mapping disappears and I have to import an image of the mapping.

Now, what I don't know is how to get the mapping as an image format from the MilkShape, because if I export fron the Milkshape and I do it with the UVMapper is like I start mapping from scratch.

I think this must be impossible but just in case
Field Researcher
#4 Old 2nd Mar 2010 at 8:08 AM
As I understand the UV map itself is just coordinates for where you want something to be and not the image itself. It might mean that you have several , if you like, "zones" on top of each other because you want them to have the same texture. I can see this in the piano that I'm busy with. The image is something you need to work with outside your modelling tool in order to provide it in .dds format.

The modelling tool does not actually keep the image as part of the mesh, but knows it as a reference. To test this, I removed the image from where it normally sits for my piano and although the reference is still in the material, it has lost the texture and the Texture Coordinate Window just shows grey, white and red dots.

I think your UV coordinates are most probably fine and you do not need the UV Mapper exercise, but you need to use GIMP or Paint.net or something to create your texture in .dds format. I don't knowSketchUp, but if you can create the texture there, you'd most probably need to export the texture out of SketchUp and not try to find a way to do this in MilkShape.

It might be a good idea to follow several of the tutorials on this site which let's you clone and extract the files to work with.

Ultimately, you will not be able to insert new objects into the game without cloning and replacing the cloned object with your new one. And that should include either reusing or replacing the .dds texture images.
world renowned whogivesafuckologist
retired moderator
#5 Old 2nd Mar 2010 at 8:43 AM
Milkshape has its own UV mapper utility within it. It's called the Texture Coordinate Editor, and if you look under Tiggerypum's profile, she has a tutorial on working with it (mainly adjustments, not brand new mapping). I don't think anything you get out of Sketchup is going to translate straight into the game - it may have some extremely basic mapping, but you're still going to have to adjust things a lot: colouring parts with a solid-colour material is much different from using a true texture, and especially for TS3 objects, there's the whole thing with... what's it called, complates? Where each part is basically mapped twice, once for the shading and highlighting and again for the patterns.

IMO, you'd be better off using a tool that's more made for real 3D modelling of the type you're trying to do - like learning to use Milkshape, or making basic shapes in Sketchup and importing to Milkshape to modify them. Reason being, it is so much easier to map things as you go along, right after you create a primitive and before distorting/deforming/rotating it. If you create a cube and you want to map the top of it, it's much better to do so when it's still just sitting there as a cube, before you rotate it 47 degrees this way and 10 degrees that way and then you can no longer just select the top and map it flat.

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Alchemist
#6 Old 2nd Mar 2010 at 12:03 PM
mgv13 I'm not understanding this part of what you posted, "but when I import it in the game the mapping disappears and I have to import an image of the mapping..." (sorry) Could you explain that more?

If you can get a mapped version of your object into Milkshape you should be able to get a mapped version of your object out of Milkshape and into the game although I tend to agree with HP.

Unless you're absolutely married to Sketchup you're probably better off biting the bullet now and learning to use a tool that lots of other people use. Not only are tools like MS and Blender designed to do what you're trying to accomplish (where unless I'm mistaken Sketchup really isn't) but most people here use those and can help you when you run into questions unlike Sketchup where only one or two people I've seen use that.
Pettifogging Legalist!
retired moderator
#7 Old 2nd Mar 2010 at 2:55 PM
From what I've seen (just from looking at uploads – I never attempted to actually use it myself), I have to agree that SketchUp doesn't seem to be up to the task. It may be very simple to do basic box shapes with it, but if it's a long hard struggle to do anything beyond that, it doesn't really seem worth it .. and like HP said, you just can't underestimate UV mapping in TS3.

The main options right now seem to be Milkshape and blender (or any other tool that can read a format those can import and export – but those are the ones that most people here seem to use). They're very different from each other, basically opposite ends of the spectrum; to give you a rough idea:

- Milkshape is very easy to learn; it has limited features but that makes it very simple to find your way around it – everything is basically in four panels with big, friendly, nicely labeled buttons. It's not free but it has a one-month free trial which should be plenty for doing one or two projects. Many TS3 tutorials explicitely show how to do stuff using Milkshape, which makes using those tutorials a lot simpler than if you'd have to connect the dots yourself. Right now it is also the only tool where you can export and import directly, which speeds up the whole process a lot.

- blender is very powerful but hard to learn, since the interface is different from anything else. It blows every other tool I have clear out of the water when it comes to efficiency and ease of use (you'll never have a problem like "you can no longer just select the top" in blender), but you have to make an effort to learn how to use it. There's a lot of good documentation, but few tutorials for TS3 show how to do things in blender – so you basically need to learn two things in parallel: how to make stuff for TS3, and how to use blender. Right now you can import directly to blender but not export (but that will soon be in the works), so you need to export -> obj -> Milkshape -> ts3 which is a bit tedious. It's free and will remain free.


I guess what to use depends on what your plan is – it's a bit like the difference between walking to the mailbox and making a driver's license. If you just want to make a simple object or two for your game, it's a lot more straightforward to use Milkshape (and you'll probably be done before your trial runs out, so it won't cost you anything). If you're interested in 3D modelling in general, I reckon you're going to be happier with blender on the long run (or some other "big" tool – but everything else I know is rather expensive) – I've used both and I find MS extremely restrictive and tedious to use in comparison. Learning it is rather involved though, and doesn't make a lot of sense if what you want to do is just one thing or two.

Stuff for TS2 · TS3 · TS4 | Please do not PM me with technical questions – we have Create forums for that.

In the kingdom of the blind, do as the Romans do.
Alchemist
#8 Old 3rd Mar 2010 at 2:32 AM Last edited by orangemittens : 3rd Mar 2010 at 12:39 PM.
Eh, I can't argue that MS is pretty easy to get going with. It doesn't take much time to learn how to make decent things with it which is a plus I would say...especially if, like me, you don't have a lot of free time to devote to your pastime. And I wouldn't say you can only make box-like things with it either...nor just things that are mishmashes of stuff you've ripped off from EA.

Even for people who've had experience meshing for Sims 2, Sims 3 presents a lot of challenges. Trying to learn something even an advocate says is hard to learn while, at the same time, trying to manage all the difficulties of Sims 3 might be tough for a lot of people...especially those who have to work and are squeezing in meshing time between the hours they spend sleeping, making food, and working etc.

In any case, I've heard good things about using Blender from people whose opinion I trust like cmo. On the other hand, from personal experience I can tell you that MS can do a lot more than make box-like things. To me the issue is how much time do you have to devote to learning a new tool and how long do you wanna spend learning the new tool while at the same time trying to learn the intricacies of meshing for Sims 3.

eta: I looked around the 'net for information on tools like Blender and MS. Interestingly, the Wikipedia has a comparison chart which includes both Blender and Sketchup Pro but not MS. I don't know much about Sketchup, as I said, but it seems like Wiki, at least, considers it a viable 3D modeling program. That chart is here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compar...aphics_software

I still think it should be possible to use Sketchup Pro to make things for Sims 3 and that the mapping issue you're having is solveable. If you use it though, you're still gonna have to get Milkshape in order to import/export Sims 3 objects to and from Sketchup.

All the way around, looking at the chart I linked and a couple of sites, Blender seems the best free software out there for 3D modeling in terms of features and community support if you run into questions. Also, one chart I saw listed its learning path to be productive at less than three months which is comparable to what the same chart said about Maya. And, if you give it a little time it's probably going to be the case soon that you'll be able to import/export Sims 3 files directly from S3PE to/from Blender without going through MS. So there's that to consider too.
Pettifogging Legalist!
retired moderator
#9 Old 3rd Mar 2010 at 12:50 PM
Nobody says you "can only make box-like things" in Milkshape – most probably the majority of downloads on here is made in Milkshape, and HP's hair meshes for example are very much not boxes. The "basic box shapes" remark in my post is in regards to SketchUp, not Milkshape.

I wouldn't be so negative about "ripping off" EA stuff. Cracking open a few in-game objects and changing them around is an excellent way to learn IMHO, and to get things done that work well in game – how do EA map their objects, what do they do to keep their poly count low, what do the shadows look like .. it also makes it much easier to make things the right size and proportion if you start from that, particularly for a beginner.

So if that's what the OP is planning to do, I wouldn't discourage them from it or talk down to them, quite the opposite. We own the game and we have every right to make it look the way we want – that's not a "rip off".

Stuff for TS2 · TS3 · TS4 | Please do not PM me with technical questions – we have Create forums for that.

In the kingdom of the blind, do as the Romans do.
Alchemist
#10 Old 3rd Mar 2010 at 12:59 PM
I think you're reading a negative tone into my post where none was intended PB Certainly, I myself have taken advantage of EA pieces and parts to make things with as you'll notice if you visit my downloads page. My little glass-top table is a sort of franken-object like the cute chair you made.

And if I ever feel at risk of talking in that kind of rude way (talking down to someone as you say) to someone here I know I can always reference one of your posts to me to find a nice example of how to avoid that. :P
Test Subject
Original Poster
#11 Old 4th Mar 2010 at 7:01 PM
Thanks to everyone and sorry for answering so late.

What I meant is that there are some pieces in SketchUp that when imported to milkshape still show the texture, so it's like a basic meshing. I meant if it was possible from MilkShape to export the mapping in an image format with the same format that has the SketchUp.

Anyway, I discovered the UVMapper keeps the meshing from MilkShape and it's a mess, so I'll have to remap my creations.

I'm very lost in mapping, I can't understand how it works. I tried following the A-Z tutorial but doesn't explain the mapping part. I also tried doing a quick search in all the site and I can't find any tutorial or resource explaining this on the Sims 3. Is there any post explaining this in detail?

I also have 3DS Max but I use Milkshape because for me the 3DS Max is too complicated (maybe in the future I'll learn how to use it but for now I'm lost with this programme). But, if there's any resource of how to map in the Sims 3 using 3DS I'll be able to export the mesh once done in Milkshape to the 3DS and map it there.

By the way, I just use the SketchUp because there's the 3D warehouse where there are lots of resources of low poly and high quality. I won't use those meshes to publish but it's interesting for me to get those already done meshes to learn how to map, because my meshes are still too much simple to learn mapping.

Thanks in advance.
Pettifogging Legalist!
retired moderator
#12 Old 4th Mar 2010 at 7:47 PM
There is this page on the wiki, have you seen that?: http://www.modthesims.info/wiki.php...shing_Tutorials

Near the top is a list of tutorials by Wes Howe that might help you a lot –*not specifically written for TS3 I think, but they explain all the basics in lay terms. He's using Milkshape and UVMapper Classic (I don't know whether that's the same as UVMapper, but the principle seems to be the same).

Stuff for TS2 · TS3 · TS4 | Please do not PM me with technical questions – we have Create forums for that.

In the kingdom of the blind, do as the Romans do.
Test Subject
Original Poster
#13 Old 4th Mar 2010 at 8:16 PM
Plasticbox, I've seen that one, but it's so simple. I'm able to reproduce this tutorial but when it comes to objects that need to be mapped more complex, like let's say a chair, I'm unable to do it.

Thanks
˙uʍop ǝpᴉsdn ǝɹ,noʎ 'oN
#14 Old 4th Mar 2010 at 8:43 PM
It works the same way. A complex object is just a bunch of simple objects put together. You break it down into it simpleness, and map it from there.

"Part of being a mesher is being persistent through your own confusedness" - HystericalParoxysm
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Test Subject
Original Poster
#15 Old 4th Mar 2010 at 9:12 PM
But, cmomoney, what happens to me is that the different parts of the object appear one over the other and if I then paint some part of the object this appears to another part. I'd like to map it with multiple sides in the same image, like it's possible with UVMapper, but I don't know how to do it with Milkshape.

I'm doing this with UVMapper but it doesn't work:

1. I create the object with Milkshape
2. I export it as .obj
3. I edit the mapping with UVMapper
4. I export the map as an image and I save the .obj
5. I import the .obj in Milkshape
6. I divide the object in groups again
7. I save in Workshop format

But, then when I edit the mask with Photoshop and I apply it to the Workshop it appears absolutely on the wrong position on the object.

I don't know what I'm doing wrong and I neither know how to map all the sides of the object in one single image with 3DS or Milkshape.
Pettifogging Legalist!
retired moderator
#16 Old 4th Mar 2010 at 10:48 PM
When you already map the object in UVMapper, you don't need to do that again in MS. The map is recorded in the .obj you save.

In the steps you are listing, everything is fine until you import to Workshop? Or where exactly does it break? Have you tried applying some sort of test texture as a material in MS (like Wes does in his tutorial), to make sure there's nothing going wrong when importing or when splitting groups?

You say "edit the mask in Photoshop" -- do you mean the channel mask? In what way do you edit it, can you perhaps post a screenshot or two?


If everything's fine right up until you look at a material in Workshop, to me that looks like one of two things is going wrong:

- either you edit the channel mask (if that's what you mean) in some way that won't work,
- or something is going haywire when exporting as wso or importing to / opening that in Workshop.


Another user posted today about issues with wonky UV maps in Workshop .. I know zilch about Workshop since I can't run it, but if you think that might be where the problem is, maybe watch that thread in case they can figure out why. It's called "texture" somethingorother, a very recent thread, about a mushroom mesh.

Stuff for TS2 · TS3 · TS4 | Please do not PM me with technical questions – we have Create forums for that.

In the kingdom of the blind, do as the Romans do.
Alchemist
#17 Old 4th Mar 2010 at 10:52 PM Last edited by orangemittens : 4th Mar 2010 at 11:02 PM.
I wrote a very easy tutorial that explains the basics of mapping with Milkshape. It's here:

http://jaue.com/om/OM_TextureMappingwithMilkshape.rar

although I'm not really sure that's what you need if you know how to use UVMapper already. You should be able to map using that and have your obj. hang onto that map when it gets imported to Milkshape.

These steps you list I don't understand:

6. I divide the object in groups again
7. I save in Workshop format

Why are you needing to divide the object into groups? The obj format should retain any division of your groups you made in whatever tool you're using. Also, what is Workshop format? Which tool does that go with?

As far as Sims 3 tutorials go the best one I've seen for meshing objects with is Ella's. Look on the tutorial page for it. It's comprehensive and illustrated. She goes through what the IMG's are and how each works.

And also, here is one of the reasons HP probably suggested learning something other than Sketchup. It may very well be that Sketchup is a great modeling program. But no one here uses it so when you have problems like this, "What I meant is that there are some pieces in SketchUp that when imported to milkshape still show the texture, so it's like a basic meshing. I meant if it was possible from MilkShape to export the mapping in an image format with the same format that has the SketchUp..." I, and probably others here, am somewhat at a loss as to how to help you since I've got no idea what you're talking about when you talk about pieces in Sketchup or formats that have "the Sketchup".

It makes it difficult to help you even though I would very much like to.

If you did switch you could always use EA objects as your examples to learn from instead of those from the Sketchup site as PB stated above. They're a very good source to use in order to learn what's gonna work in Sims 3.
Test Subject
Original Poster
#18 Old 6th Mar 2010 at 8:17 AM
Thanks everybody.

Plasticbox, the problem appears to be with the workshop.

Orangemittens, I don't know why, I uncheck the "joint groups" option but it still imports as 1 group. Here may be the problem.

Anyway, I think all this procedure I'm taking is very strange so I'll look at Ella's tutorial and I'll learn from the basics with another program, it'll be more simple than trying to keep using the programs I know because then there are incompatibilities and so on.

By the way, the quality of the meshes, even if the texture worked, it's not exciting so at any time I would have to change the way and probably the best thing is to start now from scratch with a comprehensive tutorial and leave the programs like UVMapper or SketchUP that seem to not integrate with the Sims 3 format very seamlessly.

By the way, I suppose there may be also free 3DS models libraries, so I could learn with those.

Thanks for all your help!
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