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Scholar
Original Poster
#1 Old 21st Jan 2017 at 4:06 PM Last edited by Florentzina : 21st Jan 2017 at 7:49 PM.
Default To go or not to go to College...... after being knocked up as a Teenager
Silly Title, but not sure what to call this thread, haha. This thread is about simmers who use a hack that allow teens to get pregnant and I've seen thread related to Y.A sims getting pregnant while being in College and how simmers deal with it, but this is about TEENS who got knocked up BEFORE going to college.

I always play with per-historical neighborhood themes where the sims start families at a very young age and where things like abortions and birth control are very limited and risky, so almost all of my teen girls tends to have children a few sim days before going to college (use modified aging, teen only last 6 days), or in my own case, it's teenager girls from the upper classes who go to a "finishing school" to expand their badges and "ladylike behaviors" with help of teachers, the Madam's (inspired by ToT and medieval challenges), as the other ones cannot afford it and I do not have same-gender or alien pregnancies as I prefer it to be more realistic. Usually I let them study in the main hood with Squinge's mods but find it occasionally boring and just cheat them through the semesters.

As I prefer making decisions more realistic in the game, this is something that recently come up to my mind:

Q: If your (sim) teenager girl (married at young age and usually from a wealthy family) got pregnant and became a young mother, before enrolling for a higher education, would you let her/should she enroll (for whatever reasons)?


Personally, I've zero interests in children from real life point of views. so I'm not so familiar with pregnancies and young parenting decisions such as this one (just hearing babies cries, make me shiver or getting panic attacks from , and when it comes to teen pregnancies, I'm a neutral about the whole matter - as long as the mother can afford it and take care of it and not wrap it as gift at her parents house and expect them to raise it, I don't think age matter). Although my own hood is medieval about finishing/specialty school type of educations, I don't think parenting and child care differ THAT much in more modern settings, well perhaps WHEN you have them, but that's a different topic.
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Scholar
#2 Old 21st Jan 2017 at 4:45 PM
unfortunately the baby usually ends up with older Sims to raise if both parents are in College. That happened with Angela and Dustin Broke. She got pregnant and left the baby boy with Brandi. Then both parents went to college. Funny thing, Brandi married Malcolm Landgraab and he cheated on her so she left. Her grandson ended up staying with Malcolm! It was a weird mixed family

But in my Medevial Veronaville 'hood I got Juliette pregnant and then they will get married as Teens (Special Arch). I don't think she will go to University. He will though so he can get a good job after he gets out.

"Oh look, my grandchild is now an elder. They grow up so fast. Gee, I wonder when I'll finally graduate college." Sims 2
The Great AntiJen
retired moderator
#3 Old 21st Jan 2017 at 5:16 PM
I guess it depends on the flavour of your pre-modern game. You could imagine that in earlier times, the whole family was involved in the raising of children and therefore the teenaged mother got plenty of support and was able to leave her baby with someone she trusted while she went off to university. Or you might have the sort of place with a negative attitude towards women and children and that once a girl was mother, their primary task is to raise the child. On the other hand, it might be that you want to go for a more accurate approach and say that universities just aren't open to women - as they weren't in the west, mostly until the end of the 19th or early decades of the 20th century.

I no longer come over to MTS very often but if you would like to ask me a question then you can find me on tumblr or my own site tflc. TFLC has an archive of all my CC downloads.
I'm here on tumblr and my site, tflc
Scholar
Original Poster
#4 Old 21st Jan 2017 at 5:18 PM Last edited by Florentzina : 21st Jan 2017 at 5:34 PM.
whoward69
It's a general type of question about teen pregnancies,
but in my hood, most of them would be in college. I tends prefer the "old fashioned" way where the husband expect the woman (or their family) to take care of the parenting and focusing on work or studies.

Maxon.
Well, my hood are often inspired by era related challenges, I only have a flavor where the upper class woman may enroll for a special college restricted to woman, to educate more detailed in things like cooking, nursing, sewing etc. I might be mistaken, but I think women who become midwifes needed to have some form of experiences to work in such occupation?
But other than that, the girls in this hood rarely have the oppunity to go to a regular university, because I prefer patriarch custom when playing. Unlike in real life, unfortunately, sims can only go to college between teen and adult stage.
Scholar
#5 Old 21st Jan 2017 at 5:48 PM
In my hood, SimHampton University does not currently allow babies or births on University property. Any teenager who becomes pregnant and knows they are pregnant is advised not to bother applying for university until the baby is born. If worse comes to the worst and they turn adult before they are able to try for university again, they may apply for entry as a mature student (which usually means taking one of the two "University Student" careers, but could also mean aging down). Students who try anyway can continue studying at university until the third trimester, at which point they are sent home.

Teens who have their baby before leaving for university are perfectly welcome there, and generally let their parents or guardians look after the child.
Scholar
Original Poster
#6 Old 21st Jan 2017 at 7:45 PM
I was more thinking of different types of real life scenarios rather than game terms, though. Such as who is caring for it when he girl is studying (I know MANY real life people who are not that happy raising their kids children), particularly if the girl is not living with a spouse (being married was only an example as I doubt every simmer marry off their teen sims when they are only 16). Other than summoning the baby to the dorm, it's a bit tricky to bring the baby.

So the question was more like: SHOULD (For whatever applies for YOU'r sims) rather than "Do you ALLOW" the sim go to college.

I was just looking for inspiration from other simmers decisions, not only what the game itself allow you to do as many do not make sense, I'm on the more realistic side of the game. Even I could, I probably wouldn't what them to have 20 kids because you get that roll every time a baby age up. The thing with having a relative babysit in a dorm, sounds a bit weird, but whatever flout your boat.
The Great AntiJen
retired moderator
#7 Old 21st Jan 2017 at 8:41 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Florentzina
Maxon.
Well, my hood are often inspired by era related challenges, I only have a flavor where the upper class woman may enroll for a special college restricted to woman, to educate more detailed in things like cooking, nursing, sewing etc. I might be mistaken, but I think women who become midwifes needed to have some form of experiences to work in such occupation?

Experience, yes, training, no AFAIK. They probably learned from their mothers or aunts. Depends when you mean exactly but professional training for women is a mostly 20th century thing in most places.

I no longer come over to MTS very often but if you would like to ask me a question then you can find me on tumblr or my own site tflc. TFLC has an archive of all my CC downloads.
I'm here on tumblr and my site, tflc
Top Secret Researcher
#8 Old 22nd Jan 2017 at 3:23 AM
I would think that she'd be able to go. I always imagine that in super wealthy families they have someone else to watch over the children to make sure they're on task with their studies.

Not to say the parent isn't involved at all but its not really a 24/7 thing.
Needs Coffee
retired moderator
#9 Old 22nd Jan 2017 at 3:44 AM
Do college from home.

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." - Unknown
~Call me Jo~
Test Subject
#11 Old 22nd Jan 2017 at 7:39 AM
Depends on the scenario. In a historical game, I would make it impossible for a young mother, regardless of wealth and social status, to attend college. In modern games, however, it would depend quite a lot on both sets of grandparents and the girl herself. Extremely supportive grandparents would enable her to go to college with no trouble, even taking over most of the care for the baby. Unsupportive grandparents would pretty much disown her.
Mad Poster
#12 Old 22nd Jan 2017 at 10:02 AM
In my game this depends on the situation of the family.

Babies and toddlers are not allowed on my university campuses. I don't like the way the ageing works. I might teleport them in for a visit, though

If the mother has somebody to leave the baby with while she goes to college, such as its father, grandparents or another family member, and she feels she wants to do this she can.

If she doesn't want to raise the child she can give it up for adoption. This is a decision made before birth.

If she wants to raise the child herself she can stay at home with it. But in my game most of the careers which require university can also be gained via an apprenticeship route (taking the teen job in this field and transitioning) so it's not a given that she loses out. She'll just have to work very hard to support herself and not lose the job during this time. This is very tough.

I use the sims as a psychology simulator...
Scholar
Original Poster
#14 Old 22nd Jan 2017 at 4:22 PM
PlatiniumPlumbbob
I've both Simblender and Intenimater so I already know you can terminate pregnancies, but as I wrote in the first post , I don't allow abortion or birth control in my game as I would interrpret it to be too risky and following the warwickshire challenge, it can only be done by an evil witch (so similare thinking ;-) ). I do randomize a risk of getting miscarriages (15%, a dice where 6 is miscarriage)and the woman can die from childbirth if their health was too low (Warwickshire health system), but other than that, every girl in the hood do have to conceive each pregnancy to term whether they want a child or not,, be it at 16 or at 36. and by the way, in my case, its about EVERY girl in the hood who deal with this, and I do not like killing them off for story purpose just so that they go to college easier. So it was a bit difficult to give an situation in the OP.

------
Currently, I've about 80 girls in the hood that got wed off early through arranged married and due to the 15% miscarry chance, everyone experience miscarriage in some point of their life and many end up with less than 2 children. The majority is still under-aged, so I just do the a simple arranged marriage with the hacking wedding arch and then teleport them back to their parent house, to a dorm boarding school or an relative. I usually go with 15-18 when the girl are allowed to start to do intimate behaviors and live separated from their spouse-to-be in the meanwhile, as I find 12-14 years old is pushing it a bit too far. Don't know the general age girls loosed their virginity in a pre-historical era, though, but still prefer it to be teen stage.

I end up with one situation though:
One of my noble-wed girls have it a bit rough whether she should go to college or not next rotation. Her mother is too sick (simulated) to handle parenting while her husband will be serving the military. I ended up having the girl and her TWINS live with one of their aunts whose children also are in the knight schools and not old enough to start a family with their spouses. The aunt has a good personality, but not sure if they would realistically raise their niece's children just so they could get an education which wasn't required but good to have.

Although, people here say women weren't allowed to work until 19th-20th centuary, I still like to have some of the girls have more women-typical careers like nurses, teachers etc regardless of their marital status as there are very FEW girls in my hood that isn't married.
Mad Poster
#15 Old 22nd Jan 2017 at 4:23 PM
I tend to play using mods that allow college in the main 'hood, so many of the sims in my modern 'hoods remain at home whilst attending college. Occasionally a sim may attend college whilst pregnant or whilst parenting a baby (but in my game they tend to be male sims who were abducted by aliens as teens, rather than female sims who became pregnant accidentally after woohoo'ing as teen woohoo is rare (but not unheard of) in my game, which means that accidental pregnancies are very rare).

In the Victorian-esque 'hood that I am working on, however, only male sims will be able to attend university, and they will attend it in a vacation destination (set up as a small-medium sized spa town with a university). Many wealthy male sims will attend university, however, and are then likely to go on to have careers in the military or as clergymen, doctors or educators. Wealthy female sims will attend finishing school, but they will do so as teens, as they will generally be expected to start considering marriage when they come of age at 19 yeardays old. Males will usually start being matched up for marriage when they have finished their studies, so they will usually be somewhat older than their wives (unless they were already betrothed to a sim of a similar age before they went to university - if it's a good enough match for the female sim's family they may be willing to wait until the male sim has graduated, and in the meantime the female sim will remain at home, living with her parents/guardians. On occasion the wedding may take place before the male sim leaves for university, in which case his wife would probably accompany him but wouldn't be allowed to be a student herself).

As time passes in the 'hood there will be some university courses that are open to female students. At that point I would be disinclined to allow married females, whether or not they have children, to attend these courses, as historically I think that wealthy married women wouldn't be allowed to work and would be expected to stay at home, take care of the house (which would basically mean overseeing the servants, if they are wealthy enough) and have children.

My female sims will have completed finishing school by the time that they are married, but if I used university/college to represent a finishing school set-up I wouldn't allow married females to attend. As I understand it, one of the primary aims of attending finishing school was to learn how to acquire a suitable husband, and how to live in wealthy society after marriage. If a sim is already married this would no longer be necessary. In historical times I can't imagine many husbands willing to allow their wives to go off and study away from home, either.
Scholar
Original Poster
#16 Old 22nd Jan 2017 at 4:34 PM
But women who are arranged to marry when they barely reached teenager, what good chance do they to be able to learn the duties of being an housewife? (I don't promote this stuff in real life, and TBH would never want to become a housewifemyself, so simulating this in the game becomes a bit tricky. )

That's a reason why I want my wealthy girls to attend finishing-school type college to educate them further with help of a female supervisor. Just because they are wives, I don't believe they must be locked into their husbands home for the rest of their life, never to visit other places or take classes. Like for example, A husband worrying his wife is cheating when attending a sewing or cooking class (so they can learn to cook better meals by a proffesional, sure these things can be self-taught...) seems a bit extreme.
Mad Poster
#18 Old 22nd Jan 2017 at 4:48 PM
I could certainly imagine them attending daytime classes (or, perhaps more likely for the very well off, having private instructors come to their home) to learn things like cooking, sewing, music and so on. Then they would still be living at home with their husbands but would have the opportunity to develop their skills, and perhaps to meet other young ladies of a similar age and life situation. And that way they would be at home and available when their husband was at home (assuming that he would be working, or perhaps studying, during the day). I can imagine husbands being a lot more accepting of the idea of their wives attending daytime classes locally than of the idea of their wives moving away for several yeardays to study elsewhere!

If pretty much all of your wealthy female sims marry young, perhaps it would make more sense for them to attend finishing school (or be tutored privately by a governess) as young teens, or even as children, rather than as YA's? They would probably also learn household skills from their mothers/older sisters/other female relatives. I don't know what time period your 'hood is based on (or if it is based on a specific time period) but my 'hood will be set in roughly Victorian times. Although people could marry young back then (12 for females, 14 for males, apparently) it was uncommon, and the average age for marriage was around 22+ for females, and higher for males. So my wealthier female sims will be tutored privately at home by a governess as children, attend finishing school as teens and then marry fairly young but within the first few yeardays of the adult lifestage. Some of them may be betrothed/engaged from an early age, but they won't actually marry and start having children until they are older. And once they are married, at whatever age they happen to marry at, the couple would live together, either in their own home or with the husband's parents/guardians.
Scholar
Original Poster
#19 Old 22nd Jan 2017 at 5:10 PM Last edited by Florentzina : 22nd Jan 2017 at 5:20 PM.
I don't following a strict time period as the hood is inspired by time-themed challenges as well so I tweak the reality with the play-style rules in those challenges. My hood is partly played as a challenge from the Warwickshire on here, which is set on 1600, but mine is set after the viking age of the middle ages, so around 1200. It's easier to gather information about customs from the Victorian era so I use that area's customs in favor of the early middle ages though.

I also use altering age span which I created myself from Simbolical age icon which is each age span is close to realistic and Y.A is used as an obligated age span. Those who do not get a degree and can't go to college, I cheat it to a D grade with the College Adjuster and ignore their want and memories related to college. The reason why I allow sims to study in the main-hood, so I don't need to adjust their aging as much.
Children are 5 to 12 years old and may take boarding school and knight training after 8. Teens are 13 to 18 years old while Y.A is 19 to 25 (technically first semester start at 18). Each term is based on the Warwickshire challenge which are 5 years, while those who are not good health has to be tutored or home schooled. The university is a bit long (8 years technically), but it easier to deal with semesters (24 hours) that way and I interpret some of the semesters as apprentices.

Because of the terms and the shortened teen age, tweaking in finishing school when they are teens would be a bit tight. For my middle class ladies, boarding school would be a form of finishing school which teen stage as I visualize them to not go the higher elite educations, noble women might attend. All of other class females are allowed basic education (at age 5 to 15) so if they get knocked up or not does not matter, as they are not allowed to go to college. Serfs/Servants and Outlaws (i.e. supernatural) do not go to school at all, but are an exception when it comes to pregnancy and allowed to do abortions/birth control from "herb treatments".

In my hood, The arrange marriage at young age is more of an formality rather than a "true wedding" to prevent them wooing others (ACR...), especially women and heirs, and if they do, the betrothal would be failed.
Scholar
Original Poster
#21 Old 22nd Jan 2017 at 6:15 PM
I was refering to University, the degree/diploma GPA grade to simulate they don't get the perks from university, I skip trhough the semesters with College adjuster and give a D grade (which should impact much if they get a job)
With regular maxi schools, I just use Simlogical Flexi-school if I don't want them to study.

But pretending that EVERY female didn't go to university (because they were young mothers) and only have them study in their family's/husband house can get a bit boring.
Scholar
Original Poster
#23 Old 22nd Jan 2017 at 6:43 PM
As I play the hood as a challenge, getting a degree would boost the sim's education and medical levels, which is why I want some of the girls to enroll so they can act as midwifes/healers, which is not necessary an occupation, but the skills improve the health of a woman's birth. The girl is present when another female is pregnant or if it education, can teach their own or related children who are sick. They can get that level from skills and badges too, but I prefer a variety of sims with different scenarios.
'
The question I asked in the first post was mainly about the parenting issue though. In real life I'm not a big fan of young woman on dropping their kids to raise them on their behalf and not sure about letting cousins and aunts raising it as with my age mod, its almost 10 years of parenting, almost their entire childhood if having the kids early. I rarely have sims getting knocked up at college as its get a bit tricky if the girl is on her last year. Dropping out I would need to adjust her age as I'm VERY picky with keeping sims in age sync. Squinge's college pack was useful for this part, but not so much if the sim in a college subhood.
Lab Assistant
#24 Old 22nd Jan 2017 at 11:47 PM
This is a very intriguing topic!

My answer to your question highly depends on many factors; the family relationships, economic status, the general woman's status in your kingdom...
If your kingdom regards women highly (or at least equally to men), they will expect them to get some/proper education, to have a field of expertise , and hold important positions in society. having a child will hold a woman back from attaining the high standards she or others have set, or make her unable to fulfill duties.

Throughout medieval times, a woman's value depended on her ability to give birth to males. Males are heirs to the family name and will take the father's position upon death.
Getting pregnant wasn't hard, but child mortality rate was high, and life expectancy was low, meaning a woman's fertility window was shorter.
Penicillin was invented only in 1928. Caesarean section was not widely performed, was risky, and I guess that only women from higher status had a reason to do it. many were born stillborn, others died in childbirth (many times with their mothers as well), and many others died from childbed fever.
if they survived the birth, they still could die from plauges, poor diets (especially if they were poor), climate and living conditions, war, accidents....
Quote:
Queen Anne Boleyn had her first child only after her coronation. Her only Daughter will later be Queen Elizabeth I of England. after Elizabeth (who was born prematurely on top of that) Anne had 3 misscariges. Anne kept getting pregnant in order to have a male heir. In medieval England, a woman's only worth is her ability to give birth to sons.


in a medieval playthrough, you will have to think about the infant's nutrition. the mother will have to breast-feed him. If the mother comes from a wealthy family she can use a wet-nurse.
Attending university has many disadvantages. She will not be there to raise her child, which might hinder the child's abilities of developing neccesary social skills.
If the child is from a wealthy family, and someome has a motive to hurt them, the child can be killed or hurt.
The mother will experience stress from the worrying, the loneliness from missing her child, all of this on top of her studies. she might get fatigued and/or ill
The child might be neglected or downright abused by his care-takers, or the opposite, be spoiled too much from favouritism. maybe some wet-nurse will get so attached to him and kidnap him! I'm just brainstorming with ideas about backstories now

I did not get to play with pregnant teenagers, but I can tell you a real life examples for this kind of situation. as you said you do not feel too comfortable and familiar with pregnancies (which is okay and that's why you asked and wanted to learn something new!)
Quote:
My friend had her son 2 months before she turned 17. she lived with her partner who works full time as a stockkeeper and courier.
We both dropped out of school at around age 14-15, but at around 16 we decided we want another shot at getting an education.
We tried to get our education at a special rehabilitation program for youth at risk. it was 3 days a week, 6 hours each. my friend left her son with her mother, sometimes with her partner when he was sick/on vacation.
It is very hard.
She could not attend everyday, as her relationship with her mother wasn't good and she didn't trust her very much. she used to come a few weeks in a row and disappear, and later reappear.
She never studied outside the program, but she did pass some tests. She is 18 now, and she might lose her privilage to get the high-school diploma for free. she still has around 5-6 tests to pass. but I'm pretty sure we will pass this together!
the things she complains about are: the child wakes up at the middle of the night/before dawn (4am) to eat/drink/just socialize.
Getting vaccines, teeth treatment, assuring correct bone growth, eye sight, motor skills, mental development.
checking options of kindergardens soon, evaluating what will be the best
having constant social workers interference, having to keep her head above the water with all the national support benefits, the education and/or employment programs... I'm sure many of those things existed in the middle ages too, just in different wording. I might do some research later and share some insights.

All I have to say is that raising a child is one of the most challanging yet satisfaying events in life. I have included some information that might help you on this topic, I hope it is okay to add links to external sites and if not, contact me and I will edit my message to remove them!
http://www.thefinertimes.com/Middle...iddle-ages.html
http://www.sarahwoodbury.com/life-e...he-middle-ages/
and about the quotes source; there isn't a source, I just put some of what I wrote in the quote warp for easier reading.
Test Subject
#25 Old 23rd Jan 2017 at 1:23 AM
It depends of the sim, my sim Daichi from my 1980's Japanese neighborhood. Wanted to have a family since the beginning, then she fall in love with a 28 years old man, then they married and had triplets while she was a teen. When the triplets were toddlers I killed one of triplets(Ugliest and with the worst personality) of disease for adding more drama to the story, Daichi had a brother and he went to college. Daichi didn't wanted to go college because she wanted to be a house wife. When she turned to a adult she already had two children(The reimaning babies had become kids), Now she is pregnant again and her brother already graduated in the college(With honor). In another family I had my teenager sim had a baby then she gave the baby for the baby daddy, and then she went to college
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