Homosexuality is seen in other animal species other than humans, thus natural.



Nope not looking at etymology, looking at the cold hard facts of it. Christmas was only started, not as the birth of christ, but as a way to show the "pagans" that "Hey we celebrate this holiday too so come convert to us because we celebrate this holiday and many others that you usually celebrate as well!". I dare you to prove me wrong.

Also as an overall comment, I'd like to point out that I think most of the catholic priesthood is homosexual, which I think was pointed out just not fully pointed out. Doesn't it seem odd that nobody has officially made the connection that most of the priest molestation cases were of male children? I do think that before modern times it would've more likely that homosexual men would join the priesthood as it would be easier for them to be "celibate", in terms of male-female relationships. To be honest I wouldn't be surprised if the whole of catholic priesthood and the vatican were homosexual, even all the way up to the pope. It's quite uncommon for someone, at least here in america, to hear about a female molestation case involving the priesthood, it's always seemed to be males with the occasional female thrown in. Priesthood homosexual? Very likely, they're less likely to be prosecuted as homosexuals if they proclaim celibacy and join the priesthood. Though to be honest, they should just get it on with each other than going for young boys.

I'm not sure if that was so much as religious thing as the "popular" kids excluding the unpopular. Some learning disabled kids also went to the fake prom, which makes me think it was more a cruel joke than religiously motivated. But I guess the parents must have been complicit--so certainly no excuse.



I think the overall problem in the church with pedophilia is not celibacy (though it plays a part) but the pattern of cover up. The Catholic church should no longer be granted the exemptions they have enjoyed. (imo, no church should be tax exempt, but that's a different matter) They are a self-regulating agency and get away with things no corporation could. That needs to change.



Another great "selling point" of Christianity in the early days was the similarity to mystery cults. There were polytheistic villages back then who had one main deity that was the top dog--the shift to a monotheistic belief was easier for them to make than for true polytheists. And the "mystery" angle made it easier to hide from the persecution of others.

Another big plus once one had made the shift to monotheism was that, in contrast to Judaism, Christianity did not require circumcision. That was quite appealing to most adult male converts.

The thing with the rising of Christianity wasn't that it was just a bunch of mismanaged villages it was the WHOLE of the roman empire(over time). Many of the christian holidays were holidays that the romans already celebrated, but all of a sudden when Constantine decided to be christian that everyone else of the roman empire HAD to be as well, thus the first hardcore conversions started. There is where you get the merging of "pagan" holidays with christianity. This is the inception of the beginnings of christianity as we know it, whether you all like it or not the Catholics started modern Christianity, Jesus did not. Hell, Even the romans disliked Jesus enough to kill him. Constantine started it, he was also born in 272AD so he jump started worldwide christianity 270 years, roughly, after Jesus died. How does this not seem fishy to you? As a christian you should be trying to get to the roots of your religion, when an atheist can point to the roots of your religion before you point it out, you should question why you follow the religion you do. I am not saying that Constantine debunks the whole of christian faith, I'm only saying that modern christianity, and christianity as a whole, was bastardized by Constantine. I am a former christian btw, I completely disreguard modern christianity due to the fact that MAN bastardized it when Constantine founded the catholic church and further more when the council of nicea chose what went into the bible we know now. Yes Christians, the bible we have now was CHOSEN by men that didn't know jack squat about what the world actually needed. The Catholic church committed atrocities over the years, and honesly I very much believe they are responsible for the dark ages. Christians are responsible for the loss of much of the old world, and even in more modern times, the loss of the mayan history and knowledge, christions absolutely DESTROYED them in the name of CHRIST, how can you follow a religion that will condone that kind of annihilation? Much of human history was lost due to "Christian" morals or rather I should say "Catholic" morals, we have lost too much through history due to monotheism, can we bear to lose even more?

I am pantheist for the most part, the universe is my God, the universe created me and I will go back to the the universe when I die. Not very much different to christianity, or really any religion that came before christianity. But the inception of Catholicism(to be specific), in the most potent term I can put it, has ass-raped the world of so much history that we can NEVER recover from it. The best thing we can do is just learn to accept our differences and get along, but that won't happen anytime soon because of those that "cherry pick" from christianity and islam, maybe judaism too but I can't really be sure about that since Judaism spawned Islam and Christianity(or Judaism and Islam started at the same time but I doubt that, one of them had to start first).

There is no way any of us(worldwide population, not individuals) can work together unless we can accept that we as humans are the same. Most religions teach this, why can't the most outspoken in the major religions see that we MUST get along if we are to survive? That is the great tragedy of the world, we are too wrapped up in our own differences that we can't see that we are one people.

Let's say that you wish to open soda factory in USA. There are very sucessful companies and they are your concurrency. How will you conquer? Of course with saying that your soda is the best.
So, they wanted to familiarize new faith. Day of young sun (beginning of the winter solstice) has become a day of little, baby God - Jesus.
Nowadays, Christmas means shoppnig, shoppnig, shoppnig and more shoppnig. Almost nobody knows why are we celebrating it. To celebrate day when Jesus come to save us, Jesus's birthday.

And about stupid homosexuality, LOL, I'm sick of it!



I wonder, if I didn't say that I am Catholic, will be there so much talking about Vatican?

If I am a pope, I would excommunicate and hang all pedophiles in Church (and all such people). Luckily, I am not and I have much more chances to enter Kingdom of Heaven.

Okay seriously STFU you know jack fucking diddly, I already stated that Jesus wasn't and COULDN"T have been born in december, it was a conversion of Yule/Yuletide/Saturnalia. Jesus' birthday would be in late spring.

I would've brought up the Catholic church eventually, and I did in my last post. Because you just said that you have more chances to enter the kingdom of heaven you just decreased your chances of getting into heaven because you bragged about your chances of getting into heaven. I already know I'm going to hell, looks like you're joining me.

"Judge not lest ye be judged" Matthew 7:1 (I think, could be wrong, do correct me if I'm wrong)

You know, I was talking with my sister, who's going into biology, and she was telling me that scientists managed to get female house flies to mate with each other by altering some of their genetics. Apparently, she claimed, we just about know all there is about their DNA, so it's fairly easy to experiment with it.

And oh yes. The Vatican would have been brought up eventually, and I would have brought to the table my bloodlust fury against them. It was only a matter of time.

Not sure how exactly that supported what I said but I think it did? lol

Edit:
I really should pay attention to what I post and where, the thread I mentioned was this thread lol

First of all, I didn't say that Jesus was born in December, are you blind???

Second, I didn't judge, are you really blind???

I see that you are using Holy Bible, but you explain it lightly. Holy Bible is mystery and you need to find deeper meaning.

And last nobody knows when Jesus was born. Australian scientists have "discovered" that Jesus was born in June. But nobody can say that with 100% security. This is funny, you are not Christian, but you are preparating your self for hell!!! Do you really believe that everything is coincidence, for example Jesus's resurrection and Virgin Mary's assumption?



I don't have nothing against you, but if we are looking in history like you, then everything is based on murder and blood. America is great example. How many Indians were killed in making of America? Whole Indian nations, generations, cultures, amenities, cities...
And they are now like animals in protected areas, just to forget so much killing.
They were in stone age when America was discovered, whole prosperity and life was and still is ruined and there's no more going back...
Not to mention whole villages of black race, which have been imported in USA because "white stumps" were lazy (of course the rich ones).

Yes you did.



That clearly states that jesus was born in december, or do you not know when the winter solstice is?



Oh but you did



That is judging.



I have found a deeper meaning in the bible, perhaps you should re-read it and find the deeper meaning. Oh wait Jesus stated the deeper meaning very very clearly. If I'm not mistaken, he clearly stated in not these terms "Love one another, we are all one people."



You do realize you just contradicted yourself right?





Ooo yay you brought up the native americans I'm part native american thanks. Christians annhilated the native americans in the name of christ. America was built upon the annihilation of the natives in the name of christ.

If flies can be made to mate with the opposite sex by changing its biology, that means that there is a clear biological influence. Biological influence = natural, for the most part.

@ivan17

Sure, America has done some really stupid shit, and killed a lot of people on the way. But the difference is America has LEARNED from its bloody history. The Vatican, even after adopting pagan practices and influence, even after the Spanish Inquisition, even after the Crusades, even during the persecution of pagans in Africa, they continue with the same rhetoric they have been preaching for the last several hundred years. It only spurs more violence!

They have not changed. They have simply waned. They continue to denounce the homosexuals and the pagans. They continue to molest and rape children, and get away with nothing more but bad publicity, with almost no prosecution. Sure, our world's history is soaked in blood, but empires either learn from their mistakes, or eventually fall. It's time for the Vatican to die. If it wants to stay stuck in the past, let's bury it with the past!

The christians can't let the Vatican die as christianity was built upon what the vatican and the catholics built, if the vatican falls and is destroyed what's stopping the rest of the Christianity from following suit?

OMG, you are really...
Just quote my sentence where I wrote that Jesus was born on December 21th.
They took that day for Christmas only because it was Roman pagan "day of young sun". If March 21th was "day of young sun", we would celebrate Christmas March 21th. What is here difficult to understand???

...we just differentiate what is "natural" and what is not "natural".

This is not judging, it is thinking.

*I used word natural because if I used word normal, every post will be about homosexuality. (I could use word stupid)



It seems that you didn't.



It seems that you have also special way of thinking. You are personation of contradiction. You are atheist, but you believe that God is universe.
You are not atheist then! You don't know who you are!



This wasn't intended for you... This debate is so much fun



At least, there's no more killing.
Question of homosexuality and pedophilia shouldn't be part of religion and Vatican. 2 almost same things. So if I have understood you well, you would like that the Vatican accept homosexuality, but what then with pedophilia?
This is just one big labyrinth. The main problem is culture and bonton of today's world. It isn't like before 100 years, but Vatican wants to keep that old customs and world says: No more!



Do you know what is Ecumenism? Jesus gave to St. Peter keys of Vatican. That was Gods will. The main assignment of Vatican is Ecumenism.
But it seems that Judgement day will come before unification of all Christians.

And believe me or not, but I just can't wait that day! :D

@Safyre420 - How so? There are a lot of denominations that have separated themselves from the Vatican. They're surviving without it. Sure, the Catholics may falter, but you do not NEED an organization to instruct you in faith, to tell you "this is what you should do, this is how you should act, this, that, this, that." If they were honestly faithful, they would survive without the Vatican being their instructor.

The Vatican may have built Christianity, at least in its current form, but that does not mean it is a necessity to it anymore. Christianity is widespread enough to go on without.

RE-EDIT

@Ivan - Except, THERE IS KILLING! In Africa, they are killed! And the Vatican is sitting there saying, or rather, the Pope, is sitting there saying "Oh I fear for those African men because of the evils of witchcraft." WHERE PEOPLE ARE KILLED FOR IT.

As for homosexuality similar to pedophilia? THAT is why I cannot stand your type. You have no idea how much I would love to...Never mind. But you cannot imagine my fury over such close-minded and bigoted statements. It's just like saying anyone who dares be a pagan is a Satan worshiper. And that's exactly my point, if they want to stay in the past, then let them die and stay in the past as the modern world progresses forward!

I agree. Although I am Catholic, I can feel that there's no much Vatican's influence in our life (of Catholics and laics). Christianity is most evident in living and procedures of every single Christian.

Ad.



Can you give me some links to this last cases, I am really not informed about it.

And about homosexuality and pedophilia - it is similar because homosexuality is part of pedophilia. I already said what I think about these 2 problems and I am against both but this is not part of my faith and I will try to avoid these 2 problems.

We're used to it. Hell I remember reading something posted by a Christian figure stating that we worship the moon. I didn't know whether to laugh my ass off or blow someone up ( ).

You did contradict yourself by saying that it was Jesus' birthday when in fact it is NOT Jesus' birthday, recheck your statements.



That is judging, you are saying that because I am a homosexual that I'm not natural when there is physical proof that YOU are wrong yet you refuse to see that homosexuality is natural.





Nice of you to make the assumption that I'm an atheist when I clearly state that I'm a pantheist, or do you just not recognize any other religion other than the Abrahamic Religions? I did also state that I'm a former christian, I have read the bible and took from it what I felt that I should take from it but that probably doesn't mean anything to you because I'm not Christian. Maybe, just maybe the "Holy Spirit" encouraged me to take what I did take from the bible and lead me to where I am now. "God" does work in mysterious ways after all.





Glad you're having as much fun as I am, and it may not have been intended for me but the point I maid about the annihilation of the native americans by christians is still valid until refuted.





I know what it is now and quite frankly that isn't what Christianity is about nor can it ever be achieved due to the fact that not everyone is Christian. The world cannot be united in religious harmony until humanity can learn to get along with itself. Aside from forced conversion of the whole of the world's population, Ecumenism is unobtainable in every sense of the word.

"And about homosexuality and pedophilia - it is similar because homosexuality is part of pedophilia."

Then I guess the Vatican is similar to Nazi Germany. Because dominance is a part of both of that, as well.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123811509991753625.html

http://harlcazz.bravepages.com/libr...in%20Africa.htm

That's a really controversial statment what you just made.. Are you sure you really know what homosexuality and pedophilia are? Because it doesn't seem so.. Homosexual people are exactly like you, the only difference is that they like people of their own sex.. What is exactly the thing about them that makes you be so mad at them to say that? I know three homosexual people and they are awesome people, one of them is one of my best friends, so you should really know them before saying that, just a suggestion..

Homosexual - from [Homo (same) - sexual].
Adjective - Sexually attracted to people of one's own sex; of, pertaining to or characterised by sexual attraction between people of the same sex.
Noun - A person who is sexually attracted (often exclusively) to people of his or her own sex.

Paedophilia - from [Paedo- + -philia]
Noun - Sexual desire directed towards children.

- OED

There's no link in terms of definition between homosexuality and paedophilia. Do you have any scientific studies which show a link? Demographic analysies? If not, what are you basing that proposition on? What evidence do you have to support it as a valid argument?

This thread is about Christianity. Not homosexuality, or pedophilia. Please stay on topic. Thanks.

I said that we are celebrating Jesus birthday, although Jesus wasn't born on December 21th and nobody knows the true date.

I didn't know that you are homosexual, and that's your problem. I will just avoid it, because it will turn out that homosexuals (to me) are stupid and abnormal.

Sorry if I have exchange you with some atheist. Pantheist...nowadays, everything is religion, for example money. I have heard about them.

Maybe Christians have killed Indians, but are they really Christians? Maybe only declarative.

Ecumenism is intended only for Christians, not for all religions.

Nekowolf, I have never heard about book: "The Rule of Benedict: Pope Benedict XVI and His Battle With the Modern World", but I can this title compare with my sentence: The main problem is culture and bonton of today's world. It isn't like before 100 years, but Vatican wants to keep that old customs and world says: No more!.
Interesting is also "A CHRONOLOGY OF WITCH HUNTS IN AFRICA". Does anyone knows religion of "hunters"? I was disgusted when I saw that children/teenagers were killing "witches" and especially children their mother.
There are Benedict's hands involved, but I guess that many cases were commissioned because of paganism, superstition and primitiveness of these people.
There is a big difference between previous pope John (my namesake) and Benedict XVI.

Vampire_aninyosaloh, I didn't said that homosexuals or pedophils are bad persons, I just don't like them and that's it.

whiterider, but what if pedophil is male and victim is male? It's homosexuality, of course I can use word bisexual.



Thanks for this post, I hope that we had enough of these unpleasant themes.

I dislike Catholicism enough to agree with that Not really, just I had some really obnoxious catholic teammates( I bowl) awhile back.

no truly, it's said that slightly more homos are pedos, but I wouldn't say "part of". I had a few lezbo semi-friends, they were nice, only they made out with girls. As long as a homo doesn't act on me, they are fine by me. Though Richard Simons is annoying. It's like saying that more Christians are polygamist because Mormons are christian. It's mot really fare. Many homos live normal lives only with people of there own sex. And the guys have poopy **** but that's not my problem. It's gross though. But heteros do that too. It's a hard call.

Back on subject, I was raised Christian. And I hope to god I never do such a thing to my children. I'll raise them to not hump cows, or anything like that, but Never will I say that it' because god says so. My parents used the bible to say whatever they wanted. Because of them making me go to church, I CAN'T LISTEN TO ELVIS WITHOUT SEEING BABIES WITH THEIR FACES GETTING RIPPED OFF! >:O
I go back and forth on where I stand on certain things, mainly because if my parents say it, I've learned, it's a lie.

Hate me if you want, I believe there is a god. This of course is based on the fact that my parents told me atheists hate god by default. I don't think it's true. I know satanists who are nicer than many Christians I know.

@HP - Apologies. I'll just issue a last response to Ivan on the subject.

@Ivan -


No. No it is not. It could be, and more likely to be, because young boys are much more easier to access within the structure of the Catholic church, but also easier to cover up due to the stigma within the Church. If they're surrounded by a bunch of young boys and no girls, who are they going to go after? That's right, young boys. A murderer does not always kill because they enjoy it. You are making a tenuous connection without looking at other possibilities. Take jail, you hear about sexual abuse in prisons, don't know if it's true or not, but it's not because they're gay, it's because all that's around is other people of the same sex, and they need a release. Same thing here; the priests go for boys, because it's all that they are surrounded by where they can gain access to an easy release. It has nothing to do with sexual preference.


Yes, that is my point. They want to keep the old customs, they refuse to adopt to the modern customs. Because of this, because of their refusal to change or even learn, let them fall!


The point is, however, not who started it, but that the Vatican will refuse, or at least is reluctant, to put a stop to it. Instead, Benedict is throwing gasoline into the fire.


Even so, the Pope is supposed to be infallible, and within the organization, wields supreme executive power. Sure, followers can protest and such, and I doubt many of them actually believe he is infallible, but he sure damn acts like it. Anyhow, the problem is not so much just one man, but the attitude and history of the Vatican as the whole. While certainly John was better than Benedict, that hardly makes up for everything it has done, and once one Pope leaves, the new one can simply reverse everything they want. The problem is the whole thing.

@lovetadraw


Then don't ever play Dungeons & Dragons It'll turn you into suicidal Satan-worshiping occultists who sacrifices animals and eat babies! *D&D panic of the 80's, it was so ridiculous*

You admins should get your stories straight.

I risk being yelled at but...

Mods? These are important issues for Christians today, it's like asking hindu's not to talk about reincarnation, isn't it?

@nekowolf, Not allowed to play DND.