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Alchemist
#51 Old 2nd Oct 2010 at 1:45 AM
Thank you Suzetter ...I'm really pleased you found that tutorial helpful. And you know if you're ever interested in learning how to make different things I'm always happy to help if I can.

Ranissa I wish I could say I was so saintly For me creating is definitely about the process of making items for the game. I create because I like to do so and I make stuff I want for my own game. Even if I didn't share things I would still create them for my own game and if I grew to not like engaging in that process I wouldn't create anymore. It's the sharing part that I do because I enjoy the idea that someone else might like to have the object also. I'm just careful to upload only things I think don't have flaws of some sort because I know it's annoying to people when they download something that has flaws...especially if the screenshot is taken in a manner that hides said flaws or if the flaws aren't specifically pointed out in the description. I don't like downloading something like that myself and I don't expect other people to enjoy that either.

All I was trying to say is that not everyone who enjoys seeing their item used wants fame...some of us just enjoy seeing it used in (to the creator) a novel or interesting way. Besides which...I have my own site where I post things that I can't upload here (paintings mostly). That site doesn't have a counter that tells me how many people are downloading it so seeing those things out in the world is a sort of stand-in for what other creators say they like to have...ie. knowledge that people are downloading their item and enjoying it.

For some creators in S2 I think seeing their items used and talking to the community that uses them is a big part of the joy they take in sharing...those people are probably going to be happier in S2 because S3 doesn't have that aspect of the community fully developed yet IMO.

TJS I think many questions, if not most, asked in the forum here are answered...sometimes it takes awhile but issues do get solved. I've gotten *a lot* of help here. And, although your experience may differ, I've never read a comment in the downloads section here that says something I've uploaded is crap and I've never seen something like that in anyone else's download thread either. People who download here are really very nice I think. I think HP and Delphy have worked hard to keep this site a friendly and constructive place and that's reflected in the downloads section same as in the forums.

As far as going to TSR for really high quality content goes...eh...they have a mixed bag over there IMO. Some people there make really great stuff and some make...er...not so great stuff. I could say more...lol...but this isn't a thread about TSR.
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Instructor
#52 Old 2nd Oct 2010 at 1:56 AM
Meh, TSR "struck gold" when they managed to get Newsea as even they are getting a tough time to get "featured artists" to have some degree of regular output.

And even Newsea is not really that regular, in fact TSR is a example of what is happening ... its a subscription site that heavily depends on submitted content and lets see today.

There are 9 new sets, 4 of them are of objects, 2 that are patterns and one that is hair and only 2 of those sets are pay.

And they are spacing them so there are no "days without updates".

The problem with TSR is that as the need for "recolor nº 20757 of AF mesh nº5" have vanished with CAS, the main output of TS2 content was recolors that is about the same reason we dont see many updates these days as it was the bulk of TS2 custom content.

Also Pescado is right, in TS2 at start we were swamp with flood-fill recolors, in TS3 we did not had that as CAS made the need for that obsolete but we still have plenty of texture edits that have ... issues, the ratio is likely about right as in TS2 anyone could fire up Bodyshop and use MS paint for a recolor the same is not true in TS3, we have less people capable or willing to go over the motions but we do see people instead of, say, create the mesh to achieve the result will rather "paint it on" on a existing game mesh.
Mad Poster
#53 Old 2nd Oct 2010 at 3:50 AM
orangemittens: I have to say I found it cute how you overly analyzed the fame-whore comment. If something I made does get a good comment on how to improve the mod, and it makes sense, then I have done the changes. But my point was basically, that any item I put for download, has existed, sometimes for weeks, and months, before I put them up.

suzetter had a very nice comment, but I would just want to add, than more important than pushing the thanks button, is reading the intro page. Nothing is more frustrating than having somebody ask questions that have been stated in the intropage.

To tell you the truth, I'd rather play than mod. Modding is fun, but I like the Sims for the fun boost I get from playing it. I like how LN will be making my drunk mod obsolete (or at least that's how it looks from the info we are getting). Best case scenario, one day EA would make all my mods obsolete, because if you look at it, all my mods, for the exception of dex, is just wishful thinking we had OFB.
Fat Obstreperous Jerk
#54 Old 2nd Oct 2010 at 4:27 AM
Quote: Originally posted by tjstreak
Perhaps, if Pescado wants really high quality content, he should be supporting paysites like TSR! Obviously, the free stuff is not good enough for him.
You're kidding, right? That crap is even WORSE.

Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I cannot accept, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of those I had to kill because they pissed me off.
Field Researcher
#55 Old 2nd Oct 2010 at 5:04 AM
Probably difficulty creating stuff as well as a lack of content right now.

I kinda have adapted to thinking that once more content comes out, we'll have TS2 players moving over to TS3. I certainly still play TS2 because it has a larger content base with more EXP's. TS3 is alright, but right now there is hardly alot to keep me, as well as creators, anchored to the game.
Demon Sheep
retired moderator
#56 Old 2nd Oct 2010 at 7:27 AM Last edited by fanseelamb : 2nd Oct 2010 at 7:40 AM.
I don't create for Sims 3 because I don't play Sims 3. I strongly prefer Sims 2, so I'll just keep playing and creating for Sims 2.

However, If I DID play Sims 3, I might not jump into making content for it anyway. It'd be a bit like going back to kindergarten after graduating college. I've already climbed the creative-process ladder in Sims 2. Learned to recolour... badly. Learned to recolour better. Learned to mesh. Made a neighbourhood's worth of Sims that I adore. Made content specially for them so they'll have just the right clothes, hair, and so on. Switching to Sims 3 would mean starting all over again. I'd have to re-learn and re-make those things all over again, because they're still the things I want in my game. It just wouldn't be as much fun the second time around. The prove-to-myself-I-can-do-it aspect would be gone because I'm pretty confident that I could. The creative aspect would be greatly diminished because I'd be remaking things I've already made. Add to that the fact that Sims 3 versions would never look as good as the Sims 2 versions, in my eyes, and any desire I might've had to create for Sims 3 disappears. Been there, done that, don't wanna redo it all for a guaranteed worse result.

And if Sims 3 is more difficult to create for than Sims 2, that's another hurdle. The more difficult and frustrating it is, the less people there'll be that are willing and able to do it.

As for the question of why people create and share? Personally, I create because I want certain things in my game - so I make them - and because it's fun. I share because I like using other people's creations. Yeah, stay with me now. See if they hadn't shared - if everyone just hoarded their creations and nobody shared - then where would we be? We wouldn't have much custom content, would we? I appreciate it when people share their work freely. So I share too, hoping others will follow suit and share their work, and we'll all have a lot more stuff to play with. Hoarding it just seems silly and pointless. That said, getting feedback from people who download is the reason I continue to share. If I were uploading into a vacuum where nobody commented on anything, I would've thrown my hands up long ago, said "what's the point", and stopped bothering to upload. Posting takes a fair bit of effort, after all, and it feels pretty futile if there's no indication that people appreciate what you're doing.

So that's why I create for Sims 2 - not 3! - and why I bombard the internets with my creations. Pretty selfish, really. .
1978 gallons of pancake batter
#57 Old 2nd Oct 2010 at 8:23 AM
Quote: Originally posted by J. M. Pescado
Of course, quantity is not quality: Most of the TS3 creations are still crap, more so than TS2 creations.
What kind of creations are you talking about?

Quote: Originally posted by orangemittens
Buzzler, your vanishing objects mod is a perfect example of making things for others...why else did you ask what objects to start with (based on greatest player usage etc.) and why else do you stand ready to add new objects if someone posts a request for it? Answering this kind of request is quite specifically creating/modifying *for* other people. Perhaps I misunderstood you though when you said you disagreed with me about that part of my post.
When I make something, *I* have to get a kick from it or I won't do it at all. Usually that's either because I prove to myself that I can do it, or because I want it for myself. Size does matter, though. I may make small-ish, low-brain stuff just like that, but stuff that takes at least a couple hours must be useful to me. If somebody asks me to add a something to a mod, that isn't hard to implement and is in scope of the mod, I will always consider it - even if I won't use that something. The VanishingScripts thing didn't take much effort, it seemed like something useful and I was there to do it. I didn't make it for the anonymous mass, though. That doesn't matter to me. I made it mainly for the one person who considered it useful at that time.

If gotcha is all you’ve got, then you’ve got nothing. - Paul Krugman
Instructor
#58 Old 2nd Oct 2010 at 4:45 PM
Quote: Originally posted by fanseelamb
...
And if Sims 3 is more difficult to create for than Sims 2, that's another hurdle. The more difficult and frustrating it is, the less people there'll be that are willing and able to do it.
...


Its not, its about the same but there are a bit more steps to do and more files to work on.

In TS2 you had to color the texture, now you just need to make sure the Mask is correct (Mask is the road map for CAS) so in some ways its less work as you are working in grayscale instead of color but since there are more files you end doing more simple basic work.

The hurdle comes from some technical stuff that have been standard for a quite while (even in TS2 days), such as the Alpha layer being on the texture so you need to create the Alpha layer in the texture.

TS2 Bodyshop simply made it very easy, it extracted files in .bmp format that pretty much ANY graphic editor program can work with and also it separated the alpha layer into a separate file (well it had to as .bmp does not support layers) so people had a easier time to work on the alpha.

Its not harder, its just there is more things that will take more time, pretty much what put a stop on people trying was at launch you had no programs to create custom content, there was no Bodyshop and EA made it harder to work on files with their digital locking on the files (granted that was cracked fast and now we have support for mods) and there was little to no documentation (as TS2 was very open) and people had to re-invent the wheel.

Also it did not helped "the pudding", people looked back at TS2 and looked the jump on graphics was not that high (its there however), unlike the TS(1)->TS2 jump and TS3 lacks the "hand-painted" feeling (and the engine muddles things with the ingame lighting and blurring) so there was not the same feeling there was to move to TS3 as there was in TS2 launch.

Not that TS2 did not made casualties, objects were subject to such overhaul that few TS1 object creators made the jump as it was a entirely new beast and I seen landmark names in TS1 that simply vanished, ever heard of Fionn? Before Peggy he/she was THE hair (well head as TS1 did not had separate hair) creator ... SimFreaks was one of THE sites to visit, their transition to TS2 did not go very well ... people just did not noticed that much because we were flooded day 1, (pay and not pay) sites popped like mushrooms that overshadowed the disappearance of established sites, MTS started as "Mod The Sims 2" as it did not existed during TS1 time.
Alchemist
#59 Old 2nd Oct 2010 at 7:01 PM
Lol Ani...I guess some might find it over-analysis. Others might find it a fairly restrained response to the introduction of the term fame-whore in answering someone's stated opinion on the reward some creators take in knowing their items are being used. But then, we've moved from using the word whore to using the word cute as a descriptor so maybe we're doing better in the inflammatory language department

Fanseelamb I see the distinction you're making and I agree...continuing to post items in the face of complete indifference would feel futile. You make the point far more coherently than I did.

Buzzler, yes!...that's what I mean...making/modifying/sharing things for an anonymous mass isn't as rewarding to a lot of creators as is sharing something they know someone is gonna like and use. It's nice to have a warm body at the other end of the exchange rather than a disembodied finger pressing the download button. :P

Whether S3 is more difficult to create for than S2 is is open to debate. I think for sure though it requires some different skills that S2 creators may or may not possess. If they don't have those skills they'll have to learn them before they can make anything look decent in S3. The magnifier is one of those things. In S2 the creator doesn't have to pay as much attention to the shadowing placed on their object and for me, at least, this is still something I struggle with for every object I make for S3.
Lab Assistant
#60 Old 3rd Oct 2010 at 12:16 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Ambular
As far as CAS content goes, I'm actually somewhat relieved that there isn't as much to wade through on a daily basis, and the signal-to-noise ratio (to put it diplomatically) seems to have improved quite a bit this time around.


I feel the same way. I do miss some of my favorite TS2 creators, but they were so prolific that I was constantly downloading and sorting my CC instead of actually enjoying the game. I have made it a point to limit myself with TS3, and it's nice to not feel overwhelmed.
Scholar
#61 Old 4th Oct 2010 at 2:00 AM
Quote: Originally posted by ani_
...suzetter had a very nice comment, but I would just want to add, than more important than pushing the thanks button, is reading the intro page. Nothing is more frustrating than having somebody ask questions that have been stated in the intropage.


LOL. good point. I didn't even think of that because being a builder my creations are basically download into game and move sims in. Occassionally there are really simple cc instructions.

Ani, while your instructions are pretty straight forward. I have to say that for more complex mods I have seen some innane questions ---though I have also seen some innane instructions.

It's Life...there are no rules.
You can see more of my creations at www.customsims3.com
Banned
#62 Old 4th Oct 2010 at 11:54 AM Last edited by tjstreak : 4th Oct 2010 at 1:07 PM.
Quote: Originally posted by J. M. Pescado
You're kidding, right? That crap is even WORSE.


What! You could not see the sarcasm just dripping from that post?

The one reason I can see for charging money for custom content is that people assume that something they pay for has to be better and is worth more than free content. Why look! You even host and advertise pay content without even charging the creators for the service! If I were to charge for my content, would you host it and advertise it for me without charge?

I mean, then I could advertise my items by saying "As featured on PSMD!"

Quote: Originally posted by fanseelamb
As for the question of why people create and share? Personally, I create because I want certain things in my game - so I make them - and because it's fun. I share because I like using other people's creations.


I am glad you draw a distinction between creating and posting because posting an item can be a bigger pain in the neck than creating an item.

I care for my 89 year old father, who has Alzheimers and needs constant supervision. Creating gives me something to do other than watch daytime television. For all intents and purposes, I am homebound. Boredom is a huge motivator.

I create stuff which I want in my game and which is not available elsewhere. Why reinvent the wheel? I am lazy enough that I am not going to waste my time making something that someone has already made.

I post, not for the benefit of others, but because putting items on line is a quick and inexpensive way of backing up my creations so I can quickly access them. If I lose track of an item, I can quickly go to my blog or Mediafire and retrieve it. The online version is always the most recent, so I don't have to spend a lot of time sifting through files. (Yes, an item may go through a dozen or more revisions.)

Posting also has the advantage of getting others to playtest my items. I do not always spot the problems with a piece of custom content. However, I seldom receive any meaningful feedback.

My blog entries serve as notes on how I created an item, for future reference, and also serve as a diary. If others find them useful or entertaining, fine. But they really are for me.

My friends do not know what I am doing, and, quite frankly, I would be quite embarrassed if they found out. It's why I use an assumed name. Creating for the Sims is a guilty pleasure, and not one that I publicize.

Making these files available to others does require some additional work. For example, making the preview picks requires additional work. But again, I have been making custom thumbnails -- not for the benefit of others, but because it helps me identify my own work in both the launcher and CAS, and more importantly, it helps me identify the version of a given item of custom content. If I am going to take screenshots for the thumbnails, it is not that much additional effort to make a preview picture.

A lot of people have the conceit of thinking that I am making custom content for them. I am not. I am making it for me.

Gamers should not, for one moment, think they are doing me a favor by downloading my stuff. I am doing them a favor by making it available to them. Believe me, there is no benefit to me in giving my creations away for free to total strangers.
Instructor
#63 Old 5th Oct 2010 at 1:30 AM
Quote: Originally posted by tjstreak

My friends do not know what I am doing, and, quite frankly, I would be quite embarrassed if they found out. It's why I use an assumed name. Creating for the Sims is a guilty pleasure, and not one that I publicize.


As an aside: This surprises me. I'm also a little sorry to hear it as creativity, no matter the medium, is a big deal to me. As in, people who do it, have it and express it are people I like to call friend. I mean, listen, I'm not crazy about polka but if you're my bud and play a mean accordion, count me in!

"Books don't take time away from us ... They give it back. In this age of abstraction, of multitasking, of speed for speed's sake, they reintroduce us to the elegance - and the relief! - of real tick-tock time." - Home Safe, Elizabeth Berg
Lab Assistant
#64 Old 5th Oct 2010 at 3:22 PM
It seemed so much easier for me to creat for Sims 2. With Sims 3, I just don't understand how to make new stuff. Granted, I get confused really easily, and I am easily distracted by any shiny object. So it's hard for me to stick to a time-consuming project. But I miss the days when all you really needed was Photoshop and a simple 3D art program. All the Sims 3 creators amaze me with the stuff they make. They make it seem so easy.

----->Sleep is for people that have never played Sims<-----
----->Maybe people should actually try Sims 4 before they criticize it. It's my favorite Sims so far.<-----
Alchemist
#65 Old 6th Oct 2010 at 1:50 AM
Well...it isn't easy...lol. I definitely sympathize with being confused when learning something new and feeling distracted by shiny stuff...but if you're interested in trying to mesh objects for S3, EllaCharm wrote a very good tutorial that could get you started. It's in the tutorials section of Create/Sims 3 forum. If you have issues with it there are plenty of people posting regularly who will help

Just like with Sims 2, tables of the same height as an EA table are one of the easiest objects to mesh so that's what she uses as her tutorial item. It would be great to see more people joining us on the darkside :P

The tools for S3 creation are actually easier and more creator-friendly I think...it's the extra pieces you need to worry about for S3 items that make things more effort IMO. So it isn't hard to learn to mesh for S3 (at least objects) it's just more difficult to get things to look right in the game.
Test Subject
Original Poster
#66 Old 7th Oct 2010 at 10:32 PM
Wow I had forgotten about this post and I am pleasantly surprised that so many people have replied.

Now I can see why there are fewer meshes. It is completely understandable that people would be less inclined to create when the clothing meshes are so difficult to produce and/or alter. I'm sure that more will come out but it is just such a shame that so many amazing creators have not contributed because they prefer the Sims 2. The thing is that the EA clothing creators lack style! Some things are somewhat acceptable but most are completely unfashionable and uncool that is what turns me off to the game sometimes, at least with the Sims 2 H&M stuff pack came out and there were tonnes of creators (FANSEELAMB!!!) making amazing things that you could see in everyday life.

Oh well I guess I'll just have to wait... Thank you everybody for your responses! On another note isn't one of the main things that's missing the sims 2 apartment life concept in which you could have non controllable sims in your house? How cool was that?!!

Instructor
#67 Old 8th Oct 2010 at 2:46 AM
Quote: Originally posted by pickledpie
It is completely understandable that people would be less inclined to create when the clothing meshes are so difficult to produce and/or alter.


Actually it seem the majority of TS2 meshes were exactly the same EXCEPT with different shoes.

As TS3 separated the feet from the body mesh the need to having 641 meshes that were AF Nude with diferent shoes vanished. TS3 meshes do not really require more work as TS2 meshes need to have a fat, normal and fit (and pregnant in some cases) size and TS3 meshes need exactly the same, the problem might come from you cannot half-ass it and just do the normal and ignore the fat and fit anymore as they are morphs and not separated meshes.

The persons that actually did it right should have about the same work as in TS2, the persons that simply ignored the fat and fit morphs have to now do it.
Theorist
#68 Old 8th Oct 2010 at 3:13 AM
S3 has four morphs (5 if counting maternity), Base, Thin, Fat & Muscular.

People will get there, the majority of creators are still the ones from the ones from TS2 (which is nothing bad...) but new creators need time to learn, I think we're getting better, Anubis, Lemon Leaf (I don't THINK she created for TS2...), Lady Front Bum and a few others are very noteworthy new creators

Hi I'm Paul!
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