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Test Subject
Original Poster
#1 Old 8th Sep 2007 at 1:22 AM
Default Corporal Punishment
Does corporal punishment in schools help achieve disipline? Does it violate human rights? Are the PC "hippy" liberals taking away respect from schools?
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Scholar
#2 Old 8th Sep 2007 at 1:34 AM
Quote: Originally posted by sabrown100
Does it violate human rights?

I think so. I think the only time you should intentionally hurt someone is to save them or others from immediate and greater harm.

I think hurting someone to instil discipline later in life is too abstracted from the event to be considerable - you have no guarantee that the pain will make a difference. But hurting someone to prevent them from killing themselves or others (e.g. crash tackling a kid who brings a gun to school) would be warranted.
Top Secret Researcher
#3 Old 8th Sep 2007 at 2:25 AM
I think that it could be warranted in very very rare cases. This is mainly from a psychological stand point and my own opinion, not anything overly scientific and it only refers to kids.

If most punishments a person recieves are noncorporal- say not getting a reward, going to one's room, bread and water diet and so on- a corporal punishment will be effective. That's because its somethign new, which would stand out in the kid's mind, and being spanked (that's about as far as I support) leaves a more lasting impression than saying "Never do that again! because you were such a destructive brat you can never have a puppy."
That doesn't work because for one, within a couple years the kid'll probably get a dog regardless and because a child can quickly and easily get used to not having a possesion.

I have to state again though, that the key to this is doing it only when somethign really awful is done. Kids can get used to quite alot and if they are being spanked frequently it starts to lose meaning.

Just for a real example, by the time I was 12 I had been spanked four times that I had remebered and I never again did what I got into trouble for for those occasions (stealing cookies, gouging the dresser with a pocket knife, trying to publish poems aobut suicide [less than 12 remeber] and swearing every second word out of my mouth). So it does work and last because its been six years since the last one I think and I still remeber it. Make that when used super infrequently it works.

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#4 Old 8th Sep 2007 at 2:40 AM
I hate the idea of Corporal punishment. They are trying to place it back into my school district. C.P should be banned.
Test Subject
#5 Old 8th Sep 2007 at 3:12 AM
It's a bad idea. I believe that's the parents' job, not the school.In Junior high, one of my teachers would paddle the same group of guys before they did anything everday before class in order to prevent them from acting up. Eventually he was fired for that
Test Subject
#6 Old 8th Sep 2007 at 6:36 AM
I agree with Modestgurl....only the parents should have that option.
I would not want my child to be physically punished by a teacher, principal or anyone for that matter.
My son is too old to be spanked but I did spank him on the very rare occasion when he was younger and his behaviour warranted it, but I certainly would not have appreciated anyone else disciplining him this way.
Lab Assistant
#7 Old 8th Sep 2007 at 10:34 AM
My brother is an elementary school teacher, he believes that corporal punishment does -absolutely nothing- to quell misbehaviour or improve grades. In fact, he told me that he would prefer to have the ability to fail students instead because some of the people who graduated his sixth grade class last year weren't even ready for grade six, much less grade seven.

I am a behaviourist so I have an undying faith that all behaviour is learned and therefore can be unlearned through the simple matter of reinforcement. I'll put it like this: why punish a kid for acting out to get attention when a different approach, like say a time-out, would be enough for them? You give them attention by smacking, and their misbehaviour was reinforced by getting what they wanted, you gave them attention.

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Field Researcher
#8 Old 8th Sep 2007 at 10:45 AM
Having worked in the school system as a teacher's assistant, I have all the respect in the world for teachers and administrators. But I think recent events have shown that teachers, prinicipals, and the like are far from the infallible creatures we sometimes assume they are. I would no more trust a teacher to spank my child than to give them a bath. CP in schools just leaves too much room for potential abuse by an unscrupulous few.

That's my chief compaint. Aside from that, I don't believe corporal punishment is at all effective. I say this from the viewpoint of someone whose corpus was frequently punished, to very little avail
Lab Assistant
#9 Old 8th Sep 2007 at 6:13 PM
It's effective for some, and not so much for others. I should have been spanked more as a kid.

why punish a kid for acting out to get attention when a different approach, like say a time-out, would be enough for them? You give them attention by smacking, and their misbehaviour was reinforced by getting what they wanted, you gave them attention.

Great point, but that's not the case with every kid acting out.
Lab Assistant
#10 Old 8th Sep 2007 at 9:12 PM
I am for corporal punishment, but not in schools. I was spanked as a kid when I was really bad and I turned out all right. However, I don't think that strangers should be given the right to touch children that are not their own. It's too easy for it to escalate into abuse. My dad went to boarding school in New Zealand as a child and he was caned for the stupidest things - when a teacher doesn't have the bond with a child that a loving parent does, it's much easier for them to punish this child to a more extreme level.

Now, I'm not saying that teachers don't care for their students - but the bond between the two is usually less than that of the parent(s), provided that the child comes from a loving household. Furthermore, while it is the teacher's responsibility to discipline students while they're in the classroom (sending them out of class, given detentions etc.) there are many times where the behavioral problems begin at home - kids that get away with anything, who get anything they want and who aren't used to having to follow rules or kids who don't get enough attention and so they act out in order to get what they crave, since they don't get it at home.

Discipline starts in the home. It shouldn't be left to the teachers - minor discipline (like detentions) yes, major discipline (like corporal punishment) no.

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Lab Assistant
#11 Old 9th Sep 2007 at 1:42 AM
bacon164: Thanks and I do know that is not the main reason why all kids act up but it is a frequent one that comes up in my field with misbehaviour so I figured I'd use it as an example of why corporal punishment does not work.

"I am a fly in the ointment, I am a whisper in the shadows. I am also an old, old woman. More than that you need not know."
Mad Poster
#12 Old 9th Sep 2007 at 4:20 AM
I don't support corporal punishment at all, not even if I had my own children to spank. It makes more sense to me to teach children to reason with their words rather than their fists- it's a lesson that will help them far more in their adult life than teaching them to reason through physical violence. By refusing to spank them or use any sort of physical punishment, we teach by example and therefore set a good precedent. If I had my own children, I wouldn't spank them; why in the world would I consent to a teacher paddling them? The mind is a much more powerful learning tool than the body, in my opinion. I don't condone corporal punishment in the least, let alone allowing it in schools.

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Lab Assistant
#13 Old 9th Sep 2007 at 4:33 AM
Night Revenant, that's very true. There are disciplinary tactics that work well on some kids, better on others, and not so much on other... other kids. It's really up to the parent to decide if what form of discipline is appropriate for their kid.

RabidAngel77, that seems to imply that those who have had corporal punishment are violent... which isn't the case. I don't know that I've ever gotten into a fight in my life. Spanking isn't about violence or "fists" at all. It might seem that way, but I never felt that my dad was trying to pick a fight with me by busting my ass with a belt. I just knew that whatever I was being spanked for was bad, and that I was not to do it again.

I can only speak from experience, but corporal punishment has done more good for me than bad.
Mad Poster
#14 Old 9th Sep 2007 at 4:48 AM
I think corporal punishment is humiliating. Basically you treat people like cattle, and even those you're not supposed to beat because you must treat them humanely. Bleah! If you make corporal punishment legaly available in schools, where do you draw the line? What is acceptable? What is not? What are the offences that can be punished with corporal punishment? What if the kid strikes back?
Test Subject
#15 Old 9th Sep 2007 at 5:30 AM
didn't this go out of style like 15 years ago?
Instructor
#16 Old 16th Sep 2007 at 5:03 AM
I was raised under corporal punishment. I had a really rough childhood, but it did work. I was always very scared of getting into trouble, so doing something wrong was and is out of the question. I also hate to lie because I got into deeper trouble than I would have if I hadn't lied.
However, I am not for it. My children will not live in fear. It really does mess you up for life. You can't see it from the outside, but the view from inside is completely different. Don't for a second think that I'm trying to seek pity. That's the last thing I want from strangers. I am only speaking from experience and voicing my opinion.
Test Subject
#17 Old 16th Sep 2007 at 5:20 AM
Well, I grew up with corporal punishment, and I turned out okay, so I don't think it's morally wrong or sick or something, but I also don't think it does any real good when used by itself. All it does is teach children to fear getting into trouble, which doesn't solve the real problem. Fear is not necessarily an effective teacher. What parents are really trying to do when they discipline children is to get them to obey and behave properly, not to be scared of messing up or doing something wrong. However, I do think it can be effective, if used sparingly and combined with positive reinforcement, because then it teaches children that good things happen when you behave, and there are consequences when you don't.
Instructor
#18 Old 16th Sep 2007 at 2:29 PM
I agree with Buster. It can be effective, when used sparingly and in combination with positive reinforcement and other forms of punishment. I'm not in favor of spanking for every offense.

For example, my daughter's two and a half, and hitting is our biggie right now - she hits, and I won't spank her and then tell her in the next breath not to hit. It's stupid, and highly illogical. And she looks at me like 'How come you get to hit?!' However, I am not above a pop on the hand or leg when she's doing something like running away from me in a parking lot or sticking a metal fork in an electrical outlet. It grabs her attention. Time out tends to be more effective with her - she hates being out of the action.

Do I believe it needs to be doled out in schools? No. That's a parent's prerogative, not a school's. If a parent is against, they shouldn't have to worry about the school paddling.

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Test Subject
#19 Old 17th Sep 2007 at 8:39 AM
I could probably count on one hand the times I was spanked and believe me when I say it only happened when I was totally out of control and behaving like a proper spoiled brat. I certainly didn't turn out to be a monster.
I agree with pretty much everyone else that it can be effective when used in extreme circumstances but it certainly shouldn't be done at school or by anyone other than the child's parents.
Test Subject
#20 Old 5th Feb 2014 at 7:48 PM
I believe that that kind of punishment should be dealt by the parents. Now thats not to say that they should spank their child because he/she didn't pick up their toys but if the child sneaks out and doesn't come back for days that warrants a spanking. My parents are NOT allowed to spank me cause of past abuse, but I still believe that it's needed.
Instructor
#21 Old 5th Feb 2014 at 9:26 PM
Honestly, I really find it a stupid thing to have CP in schools. It is far to easy to abuse that power and quite honestly, it just is never anything productive to humiliate someone or to get physical with a student, not worth it either tbh.

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Lab Assistant
#22 Old 6th Feb 2014 at 2:44 AM
I don't know why corporal punishment for children is acceptable while corporal punishment for adults is not, or at least in most parts of the world. Either both are good or both are bad. In my opinion both are bad but certain circumstances should call for it (regardless of whether you are a child or adult).


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Scholar
#23 Old 19th Feb 2014 at 11:51 PM
Quote: Originally posted by sabrown100
Does corporal punishment in schools help achieve disipline?


As a child gets older/larger the parent or teacher must hit the child with greater force to cause the same amount of pain. So aside from being immoral, it's worthless as a tool for teaching or aversion therapy. It only teaches a child to either learn to endure the pain, or find ways to avoid it. Lying, sneakiness, double-talk, kissing up, etc. are the skils a child learns in order to survive in an abusive environment, not discipline.

Quote: Originally posted by sabrown100
Does it violate human rights?


How can this even be a question? You're torturing a child. In what sicko, sociopathic universe does that not violate a child's right to safety from harm?

Quote: Originally posted by sabrown100
Are the PC "hippy" liberals taking away respect from schools?


It's all so Orwellian. Teach a child respect by disrespecting his body, his person...by disregarding his right to walk about his own community safe from harm.

You can't teach a child to respect other by using violence. Violence only begets violence. You teach a child that might makes right, that child grows up believing exactly that.
Theorist
#24 Old 20th Feb 2014 at 12:17 AM
I believe that people who resurrect threads from 2007 should be spanked thoroughly.
Mad Poster
#25 Old 20th Feb 2014 at 1:46 AM
Maybe they could delete old threads or lock them after a certain point. That way no one could commit the crime of resurrecting them
 
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