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Mad Poster
#26 Old 7th Jul 2014 at 4:29 AM
Let's just put this here, to see if we can avoid any more confusion- this thread started off in the Debate Room- hence the discussion over the issue. It was eventually moved here to Off-Topic; a more suitable home for it. The posts about whether it's a debate or not came from its earlier location.

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Field Researcher
Original Poster
#27 Old 7th Jul 2014 at 4:08 PM
Quote: Originally posted by grammapat
In the first place, for all those discussing whither this was a proper topic to debate; this IS NOT the debate thread, it's the Discussion thread..duh.
That said; homeschoolers are to be commended (usually) and if you're homeschooled you have a lot of advantages. But you probably have a disadvantage as far as college; College (like public school, and the job world) are about telling the teacher what they want to hear. In other words, they have opinions and facts that may be debatable, or plain WRONG, but when they ask a question on a test, or you write an essay or term paper, they will judge you on whither you know "the truth"..i.e. THEIR truth. Generally, college requires you to already know how to take notes, study, memorize, make inferences, and write well. The better you are at organizing, memorizing, and using English, the better you will do.


Good advice but I think I have to disagree a bit there, Some colleges are like this and I think it was more common in the 90's and early 00's to have schools like this to where everything was only at the teachers standards of learning, But nowadays its a bit different and more open to others beliefs and religions, and points of view. But I think it is entirely based on what college you go to and what teachers you have. A good teacher would research the topic she teaches for different answers and decide the correct one based on the students and the research. Why allot of teachers are very lazy and prefer not to go that deep, and just follow what ever they think, a good teacher knows to take that extra step, because it will in the future help the growth and prosperity of the people. Seeing different points is how we grow, we don't if we just stick with what we "think" we know. Like in cooking, lets say you make cookies with not enough sugar, and someone could tell you about that and you would get perhaps a second opinion, and then also decide if you yourself will change the recipe.
In short, Cookies are a medifore for life. xD
Field Researcher
Original Poster
#28 Old 7th Jul 2014 at 4:09 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Zarathustra
Let's just put this here, to see if we can avoid any more confusion- this thread started off in the Debate Room- hence the discussion over the issue. It was eventually moved here to Off-Topic; a more suitable home for it. The posts about whether it's a debate or not came from its earlier location.


Yes. That was a bad view on my part! Sorry everyone! ^^
Theorist
#29 Old 8th Jul 2014 at 9:06 PM
My college experience was boring, but it is what you make of it, and unfortunately, I'm a boring person. If you want the FULL college experience, and I mean the night life, the social life, meeting new people, then definitely LEAVE HOME and stay in the dorm and I'm sure it will end up being the most memorable time of your life.

My college experience was boring, because I'm what my university classified as a "commuter". Basically, I lived at home with my parents. I drove to the university campus every morning, attended classes, then went straight home afterwards, repeated till I got my Bachelor's degree. I didn't join any clubs, participate in any extra-curricular activities, or make any friendships that lasted longer than the current semester. That's probably not the kind of college experience you're looking for.

As far as the classes, they can be hard or easy, depends on the class and instructor. One thing to be aware of is there is very little coddling. Most instructors and professors will help if you ask for it, but you have to ask. The biggest general-ed classes that everyone has to take to graduate are often lecture, in huge lecture halls, very impersonal, and usually not interactive. You sit there, listen, take notes, study, and try to to well on tests. The instructor won't even bother to learn your name in most of them. Classes more specific to your major are likely to be smaller and you'll have more opportunity to interact in those if you're an outgoing type (I tended to sit quietly in every class when possible, but that's just me). Not sure about all colleges, but at least the university I went to, there has been more of a push towards ensuring graduates are good communicators, so if standing up in front of a classroom full of people and giving a speech terrifies you, just a warning you'll need to be prepared for that.

Some people like to paint college as a bastion of liberalism, as though that's a bad thing, but it's not. A truly good instructor makes you think. Only by questioning what you think you know, even if it's long-held beliefs, can you truly learn. You don't learn anything if you're just regurgitating facts.

The dorm itself, I've visited people in the dorms (group project partners and such), they do kind of look like they show on TV and movies. Cheaper dorms are a room with a couple twin beds, cinder block walls, not real luxurious. The more expensive ones were more of a suite layout where there is a main living area and separate small rooms big enough for a twin bed. The cheaper ones, I think you do need to share a room, though you can choose your roommate if you already know someone and both want to be roommates. If you don't have one chosen, they'll try to match you with a compatible stranger. Not sure about other universities, but mine has a fairly sophisticated roommate matching system. Each person fills out a lengthy questionnaire and you're matched with the most compatible person, like online dating. You'd probably have to spring for the pricier suites if you want a bedroom for yourself, though you'd still have to share the same living area with suite-mates, but every university is going to be different.

As for whether you should attend, I say absolutely. If you're looking for a professional career, something beyond blue-collar or clerical work, then a degree can only help because many employers won't even hire applicants without one. If you're wanting to learn more about the world around you, and possibly learn more about yourself in the process, college can do that for you too. If you're looking for an incredible and memorable life experience, and possibly the best time of your life, making many new friends, parties, and good times that you'll remember the rest of your life, college can be that for you too. Just don't do it the boring way and be a commuter like me, and you might get that! Although honestly, if I had to do it again, I probably would have done it exactly the same because I'm totally socially inept and only feel comfortable when being a hermit.

Resident wet blanket.
Scholar
#30 Old 8th Jul 2014 at 9:32 PM
College is what you make of it.

I went to university when I was in my early 40s. And though it seems I spent most of my waking hours in the stacks, I fucking loved it.

I loved arguing with my professors. I loved learning about anything I wanted to know. I loved that there wasn't a subject on the planet about
which I couldn't find information. I loved the smell of books. I loved the smell of old rooms in old buildings.

I wanna go back and do it again. If I was rich, I'd take every course in the catalogue.
Mad Poster
#31 Old 9th Jul 2014 at 4:05 AM
Something a few people have touched on, but that I think is worth saying again too, is that if you make any kind of a connection with a professor, use it!
I spent the first two semesters of my college career not really paying attention to the role of professors beyond just "that one person who spends most of their time talking in front of me" and as a result I still don't really feel like I got much out of them.
My third semester though, I had classes with two of the professors who really made an impact on me, and it motivated me to actually GO to their office hours, and TALK during lectures, and that made classes, and just my university life in general, I suppose, SO MUCH BETTER. My next semester I met two more professors like that, one of whom is still one of the people I turn to for advice all the time- building a relationship with your professors can have all sorts of benefits like that!
(I also got a well-paying student job/internship, fantastic recommendations for future jobs, an upper-level class specially tailored for me and a few other like-minded students, etc., if you needed more convincing! )

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Forum Resident
#32 Old 9th Jul 2014 at 7:21 AM Last edited by Mammal : 9th Jul 2014 at 4:08 PM.
Yo, I'm a college student in the US. I just finished up my freshman year at a tiny, tiny liberal arts school in a tinier, tinier town. It was my "safety school," and I was never particularly excited about it, but they offered me a lot of money and my dream school rejected me, so that's where I went. I had a pretty crappy freshman year for a lot of reasons that aren't worth getting into. Long story short, I'm transferring, so I'll be starting a a different, larger university this fall.

My first mistake re: college was limiting the types of schools I looked at. I arbitrarily decided that I would HATE big schools, and I only looked at small liberal arts colleges. When I finally toured at the larger school (2,000 students vs 50,000) I absolutely fell in love with it. Cast a wide net, see what kinds of schools are out there. Tour at a few places, talk to students. Don't let any one thing make your decision.

My second mistake was in only applying to three schools: I applied to my dream school (and got unceremoniously wait-listed), my safety school, and a third school I didn't like and had no intention of going to (mostly because I was embarrassed at only applying to two schools). You don't need to apply to 800 different places, but really think about where you're applying and why.

And the rest of my mistakes (of which there are many!) are outlined below in a disorganized and incoherent list. In my defense, it is 1 AM where I am and I am ill.

1. You should definitely try to live in a dorm freshman year. It is really, really difficult to meet people if you live off-campus. Your floor is going to have at least 20 people on it, the entire building can have anywhere from 80-800 people. Cheesy as it sounds, that's 20 potential friends on your floor, and as many as 800 potential friends in your building. You'll make friends waiting in line for the laundry, you'll make friends waiting in line for the microwave, you'll make friends because you left your door open and someone decided to poke their head in and say 'hi!' It's also easier to get to club meetings if you're living on-campus, and clubs are the easiest way to meet people.
2. Every school has at least one big, freshman dorm. You probably want to live there, because there's a lot of people in it, and because they're all going through the same thing, so you'll have a lot in common. That said, some people really don't do well in a building with so many people, and it comes down to how outgoing/introverted you, personally are. Know thyself!
3. Freshman year, your dorm is probably going to be a 12x12 cinderblock square with two twin beds. You'll have a roommate, and it's going to kind of suck. Don't go in expecting to be best friends with your roommate. I can count on one hand how many people I know who ended up good friends with their roommate. It happens, but it's a lot more likely that you will learn to get along and tolerate one another without becoming friends. At the beginning of the year, you need to sit down with your roommate and lay the ground rules. I had a lot of roommate problems that started because we didn't communicate, and then got worse because we didn't communicate.* It'll feel forced, dorky, and awkward, but you need to figure out a "roommate contract" and agree on what you are and aren't allowed to do in your tiny shared space.
4. Join clubs. I think a big reason I was unhappy at my old college was because I only joined one club (and one club I didn't like very much). Go to a lot of meetings during the first few weeks, then winnow it down to two or three you like. Go to those, be active, join committees, have fun. Meet people. Don't spend four consecutive Saturdays alone in your room. (Which I have done. 0/10, would not recommend.)
5. The food is gonna suck. It'll be awesome first three weeks ("I can have pizza, ice cream, and Lucky Charms three meals a day! Rad!") and then you'll get sick of it ("I haven't eaten a fresh vegetable in weeks! I think I have scurvy! Boo!")
6. So. Booze (and other drugs). There will be booze (unless you go to, say, BYU, in which case there will probably still be booze). You can chose to drink, or you can chose not to drink, no one will care as long as you're not an asshole to people who make the other choice.** You do not have to drink. I did, but a lot of my friends didn't, for various reasons (one of them had health concerns, one didn't like the taste of liquor, one didn't want to jeopardize sports eligibility, several were morally upright). Your friends won't pressure you to drink. People who pressure you to drink (or smoke, or take any drug) when you don't want to aren't your friends. If drinking (or smoking meth, whatever) makes you uncomfortable, don't spend time with people who drink (or smoke meth) while they're drinking (or smoking meth).
7. I didn't notice a significant difficulty spike going from high school to college. Other kids really struggled. I had friends who regularly stayed up past midnight studying. I had friends (like me!) who got 8 hours a night, every night. I've always been a good student and I was very well-prepared, but other kids weren't. There was definitely more work than I was used to, but it wasn't any harder (in my opinion). This, more than anything else, is a total crap shoot, so get as many opinions and perspectives as you can. I found most of my classes to be pretty easy, but I was taking mostly intro-level freshman courses. I took a physics class that really, really challenged me (and got my first-ever C in it), but I also took a writing class that I literally got 100% in.
8. Professors care a lot more about their subjects than do most high school teachers. All of my professors were passionate about their topic, if not necessarily the class itself. That said, enthusiasm for the subject material!=ability to teach. Some professors just don't do a good job conveying information, and in those classes, you'll have to study twice as hard because you'll essentially be teaching yourself. Make good use of study groups, particularly in those classes. You also may run into professors you disagree with. I disagree with the notion that you *have* to parrot the teacher's opinions on tests and in papers to get a good grade, but it'll be a hell of a lot harder to substantiate your own opinions because you won't have discussed evidence for them in class. It's all about doing the legwork, my friend.
9. If you're unhappy, don't wait for everything to magically get better. If you don't get along with your roommate, you can switch move. If you don't like a club, you don't have to stick with it. If you don't like the people you're spending time with, make new friends. If you don't like the school you're at, transfer. If you know you're unhappy, don't take a "wait-and-see" policy. Waiting and seeing is for people who don't know what they're thinking. Action is for people who are going, "this sucks, I hate it."

I can't tell you whether or not you *should* go to college. That's up for you to decide. It's an awful lot of money, and there's no surefire way to make sure your investment pays off. In general, you're better off being educated than not, but that doesn't mean you have to go to a big school right away. Starting off at a community college is a smart move, especially if you're uncertain about even going to school. (You can always transfer later on!) That said, I had a heck of a lot of fun at school while I wasn't complaining about the food and writing passive-aggressive notes to my roommate. I made some excellent friends and learned a lot about myself.

Also, there was a group of girls on my floor who were all home schooled, and they did just fine. No matter what you chose to do (and it is your decision, mind you, not your parents, not your siblings, not your friends or anyone else's), I'm sure you'll do just fine

Good luck, and have fun!

*It's kind of a good story, now that I'm no longer routinely suppressing murder rage at the sight of her face. Basically, my roommate introduced me to her boyfriend by having him be in the room one morning when I woke up. He came over in the middle of the night and wanted to sleep over (read: was too drunk to find his way back home). I was already asleep by that point, and she didn't want to wake me up to go "hey can scuzz mcgee spend the night" so he just. slept over. And then continued to sleep over three nights a week for a semester and a half. Moral of the story: if your slimy boyfriend wants to sleep over, and you haven't had a chance to talk to your roommate about it, you say, "no," and then you talk to your roommate about it and invite him over when she's not there.

EDIT: Wait, no, the actual moral of the story is: if your roommate does something objectionable, speak up right away. Don't just ignore it. Say, "that's not cool, in the future, I'd prefer if you didn't have your boyfriend over without asking me/didn't eat my food/didn't practice the saxophone at 2AM." You need to speak up before the bad behavior becomes a habit for your roommate. It's like marriage. Speak now or forever hold your peace. By not objecting strenuously the first time it happened, I pretty much allowed my roommate to have her boyfriend over literally 3-4 nights a week without talking to me about it. IT REALLY SUCKED. DON'T BE ME.

**For example: there was a girl in our group who did not approve of drinking whatsoever. Whenever we drank, she would "chaperon" and sit there with a look on her face like she was trying to set us on fire with her mind. She was very clearly uncomfortable, and very clearly hoping that if she were there, we wouldn't drink. She set out to try and make everyone feel bad and guilt us all into behaving. There was another kid in the group who was constantly trying to goad her into drinking. Both of these things are what we call "dick moves," and you shouldn't do either. Don't shame your friends for their choices, good or bad.

"If I be waspish, best beware my sting."
Theorist
#33 Old 9th Jul 2014 at 8:14 PM
College Hint: Find professors you like, then stalk them ruthlessly through college whenever possible. Even if it's credits that barely count towards your degree, the fact that you enjoy the professor and (presumably) do well in their classes will more than make up for anything else. Don't dismiss professors that you dislike either though, one of my professors in college is a complete and utter asshole. We did, and still do, argue constantly, because the man is wrong about a very many things that have little to do with his teaching. On the other hand, he grades fairly, assigns useful work instead of makework, and never took it personally when I argued with him on a point of opinion or dispute. Professors like [that are gold, because learning how to forcefully protect your opinions and make your arguments is invaluable in life. Plus, it's a lot easier to do presentations when you know that you're going to just end up blowing a half hour defending your views to someone you're used to arguing with in the first place.

Don't pursue those professors uselessly though. I had an English professor who I had some of the same rapport with, but that time through my focus wasn't English or anything remotely related to English. So taking classes that weren't even in the same region of studies wasn't going to aid me in anything. I took her for every class I could, then just argued with her on my free time.

...It's probably worth noting that the second half of my advice...I like arguing. I think debate refines people's depth of knowledge on a subject in a way that rote and regular learning doesn't, because it exposes weaknesses and flaws in your facts and reveals the character of the people trying to present information to you. I recognize though that some people aren't happy with that way of learning, some people are really terrible at arguing because they're naturally sloppy or emotional thinkers, and some people want to curl up into a ball and cry when people tell them they're wrong. The point of college is to challenge yourself, but don't let it break you. Do things you're uncomfortable with, not the things that tear you up inside and cause you permanent harm.
Mad Poster
#34 Old 31st Jul 2014 at 5:10 AM
emmyzrulz, I'm sorry I didn't see this sooner. I'm home schooling my kids, I was home schooled, and I went to college. You have all sorts of options. You said in your first post that you're afraid of people. This is something to consider when you're thinking about what sort of college you'd like to attend. There are many colleges that offer part or all of the courses on line. There are colleges that require you to live in the dormitories during part of your college years. I would advise you to investigate possibilities for dealing with your fear of people because this is something that will be an issue far greater when you are past your college years, and you can never deal with an issue sooner than now. I've got a sense that your self-confidence in general is a bit low--your comment about not having brains--maybe you're right and you aren't as smart as some but hard work will get you further than genius without work any day.
I'll tell you a little bit about my dorm years: I lived in a women's co-op: this was fifty-three girls who did a share of labor in the dorm in exchange for reduced fees. Most were nice. Some were mean. Just like people anywhere. Some of them found it amusing as all get-out that I didn't know the difference between Michael Jordan and Michael Jackson. Well, I didn't care about celebrities, and most of them didn't care all that much about the things I cared about. But that's how hobbies go. The food was not up to the quality of home made that I was used to. We didn't usually have the option of a single room because there were only so many rooms and high demand for that particular dorm. However, if one lived in the main dorms, you could pay extra to have a room to yourself. Also, the RAs had private rooms. They were usually juniors or seniors who got free housing in exchange for being available to settle disputes between roommates, hold homesick freshmen while they cried, teach people like me to run a vacuum cleaner (my childhood home has all hard floors), and explain to people like my mother that it was only ten pm on a weeknight and I was a music major and it wasn't unreasonable for me to not answer my dorm room phone (and yes, I was practicing).
As far as coursework goes, some professors are harder and some are easier. Some that are harder you will like better than others. Some will be better teachers than others, and some will make you wonder how they got tenure. Your first semester, you will get the luck of the draw. Your second semester, you should have gotten to know other students and be able to find out about professors in advance of registration. You should know that your roommate hated her math teacher and why, and be able to judge whether or not that reason will apply to you. You should know which art teachers have which ideas: which ones think Jackson Polluck was the zenith of art and which think he was the nadir, and which you'd rather study under. Art (which is what graphic design was under at my school) is one of those disciplines where the students tend to hang around the department to work--supplies are a pain to haul back and forth, etc--so you'll get to know your fellow art majors early on and can find out what they think about the professors. Notice when your professors' office times are. Show up to them at least once within the first couple weeks of the class--you may not need help from that professor, but you do want to establish yourself as someone who's willing to go the extra mile to succeed. This is a good time to ask questions about the work expected: "Hi, I'm Emmy, could you clarify what you expect for classroom participation?". Ask questions during class if you have questions. Most of the students won't. Professors appreciate being asked questions as a general rule: I think they often wonder if any of the students care about what they're studying or if they're only going through the motions to get the paper to get the job.
As far as admissions go, yes, you need to get a decent-ish score on the standard exams. But that's not at all the be-all and end-all. Your portfolio matters. Contact the art departments you'd like to study at (pick several) and ask what they want to see. Aim both high and low. Apply at your community college and at your dream school. You also need to find out if the application procedures are different for home schoolers than public schoolers. I understand the admissions offices are generally better at this nowadays than they were when I went, but ask specifically anyway. Some schools consider home schoolers to be an attractive diversity addition to their student body. Then, when they make financial aid offers, you compare them, and then you tell your first-choice how much more another school offered you to go there, okay? You're going to build a valuable salary negotiating skill right here. You're going to say "I really want to go to your school but school xyz offered me full tuition and fees and I could live at home for free if I attended xyz. Can you match that?" And then they'll look at what else they can offer--there may not be anything but if you don't ask then the answer is always no. And then you do the same with second choice, etc. Statistically women are not as good at negotiating salaries as men, why isn't particularly relevant here and is a subject of plenty of debate, but what you need to know is it's a skill to practice.
You'll do just fine at college. And if you'd like to ask specific questions, go for it. As you can see, I'm more than happy to talk your ears off (figuratively).

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"English is a marvelous edged weapon if you know how to wield it." C.J. Cherryh
The Great AntiJen
retired moderator
#35 Old 31st Jul 2014 at 8:37 AM
Quote: Originally posted by tsyokawe
College is what you make of it.

I went to university when I was in my early 40s. And though it seems I spent most of my waking hours in the stacks, I fucking loved it.

I loved arguing with my professors. I loved learning about anything I wanted to know. I loved that there wasn't a subject on the planet about
which I couldn't find information. I loved the smell of books. I loved the smell of old rooms in old buildings.

I wanna go back and do it again. If I was rich, I'd take every course in the catalogue.

@tsyokawe You might like this:
https://www.futurelearn.com/
The courses are not as in-depth as I personally would like but I've taken about 8 so far and love dabbling in subjects I know next to nothing about.

I no longer come over to MTS very often but if you would like to ask me a question then you can find me on tumblr or my own site tflc. TFLC has an archive of all my CC downloads.
I'm here on tumblr and my site, tflc
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