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Banned
Original Poster
#1 Old 28th Feb 2010 at 3:54 AM
Default Help with a new object- The game won't let me pick it up.




Extracted and altered the plumbob, and for testing applied it to a deco plant base.

But when I place it, I can't pick it up. I can also not delete it with the sledgehammer. If I start from another object and drag across it I can delete it, though.

Why does this happen? I literally did NOTHING but replace the mesh.
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Alchemist
#2 Old 28th Feb 2010 at 4:29 AM
Just curious...what the devil do you want with that thing? And if you want that shape why not just make your own?

You transferred it to the new clone as an obj I'm guessing? And then used mtlsrcs to make the plant clone into glass?

Or how did you do it?
Banned
Original Poster
#3 Old 28th Feb 2010 at 4:31 AM
I extracted the modl

I replaced the existing plant with the extracted modl


That's it. And I want it as decoration.
Me? Sarcastic? Never.
staff: administrator
#4 Old 28th Feb 2010 at 5:05 AM
Does the object even change opacity if you use the sledgehammer? Or what about when you attempt to grab it? Does the opacity change and it doesn't let you, or does the opacity not change at all?

Which object did you clone? A small tabletop plant? It sounds as if your bounding box is off. This was an issues before, and I think changing the mimic to that of something smaller may have solved it. Or possibly adjusting the values for the bounding box in the OBJD and/or VPXY.
Banned
Original Poster
#5 Old 28th Feb 2010 at 5:04 AM
Nothing changes, it just sits there. But if you drag(and only drag, not click) the sledgehammer over it, it lights up.

And I did clone a plant, yes. The little atrium box, to be specific, because it seemed to be about the same size.

I dont know what you're talking about with the bounding box. I dunno what that is. :<
In the Arena
retired moderator
#6 Old 28th Feb 2010 at 5:27 AM
Objects that cannot be grabbed and picked up has something to do with bounding box values in VPXY and footprint stuff.
It means the object size dimensions in the cloned VPXY, FTPT footprints resources (maybe FTPT slots, too?) and the new mesh's bounding box values do not match. I normally check for these values in Milkshape (one of the menus: Model Info or something) and just plug in these values in VPXY editor (and/or FTPT resource), varying for some decimal points.

Sometimes, when this happened, looking downwards from birds-eye-view - you can view it from the top of the object and grab it that way.
Banned
Original Poster
#7 Old 28th Feb 2010 at 6:03 AM Last edited by Claeric : 28th Feb 2010 at 8:46 AM.
It didnt work, though you WERE vague so maybe I just did something wrong.

I extracted the mesh of the original plant, used the obj tool to decompile it so I could open it, opened it, copied the min and max values from the original plant in Milkshape after quite some time of searching for the proper button, and put them into the vxpy editor for the vxpy from the plumbob file.

Nothing changed. I also cant interact with it, despit ethe plant being viewable. Since I did nothing but change the mesh, I dont quite get this at all.

Edit:

Uh...there...has to be data stored in this mesh. I just noticed...they still float up and down and spin. <_<; Which is pretty cool, I guess, because now I want to make them upright and enormous as a sort of beautiful fancy magical decoration.

But...apparently the model is enough to tell it to:

-Be reflective
-Be refractive
-Float
-Spin

wtf
In the Arena
retired moderator
#8 Old 28th Feb 2010 at 8:51 AM Last edited by ellacharm3d : 28th Feb 2010 at 3:52 PM. Reason: the mis-spelling bugged me
Were you addressing HL or me?

Well, a lot of it was on trial & error and I haven't continued meshing and making changes to object size and orientation, footprints & slots to give conclusive facts.
And short of digging through my files and notes and firing up Milkshape to capture a set of screenshots just for you? Uh-uh no no honey, I thought you're big on helping oneself?
That was the extent of what I *do* remember off the top of my head, so that's what you got.
It has been brought up a few times on the forum, I think - that's how I know to try grabbing it from the top view, looking down from the ceiling.

No dice? Then just remove the package and caches/thumbnails and next time you load the item will have reverted to its base object.
Banned
Original Poster
#9 Old 28th Feb 2010 at 9:06 AM
I can help myself, but you cannot really deny that you were vague, there were quite a few steps that simply weren't mentioned at all. I didn't mean it in a "God I hate you so vauge" way, just simply that have no way of knowing if I did it right since the instructions were basically "do it" and not how to do it.

And I can't get it from above, either. It simply does not have a footprint. Since it apparently stores the information that keeps it refractive and transparent and reflective, AND the data that tells it to spin and float up and down, maybe it's hard-coded behavior that you can't pick it up.

Also, unrelated info: Scaling them DOES NOT work. This mesh wont scale. It will rotate, it will move, but scaling it does not change its size. There must be very hardcoded information in here(whatever makes it float and spin). So my dreams of an enormous spinning crystal plumbob floating in town square are shattered.
In the Arena
retired moderator
#10 Old 28th Feb 2010 at 9:37 AM
Vague - indeed yes, because I haven't mess about with the VPXY editor too much. When I did it - I did it the long-winded manual way in s3pe's grid. Plus with new info from HL's new footprint tutorial, it would have made things much clearer & more understandable to me back in Sept. So you could say my vagueness was due to not having assimilated new information into the meshing procedures yet. It was on purpose, that I admit! I need to make a few more things first, break more and document all that before I can guide someone else on the step-by-step procedures.

A lot of these stuff are still too different from TS2 that most of the groundbreaking brainstorming is happening as people asks questions and figure things out by trial & error. So the next tutorial might be from you...on VPXY editing. :p
Alchemist
#11 Old 28th Feb 2010 at 1:40 PM Last edited by orangemittens : 28th Feb 2010 at 2:13 PM.
I'm still confused about what you did that now you're saying you ended up with an atrium fern clone that floats and spins.

The atrium fern clone should have 2 groups (plus a shadow group for MLOD1). If you replaced the glass part of the atrium fern with the plumbob and did nothing to alter the material slider then that explains why your plumbob looks like glass...you replaced a glass part with it and it took on that part's material slider. Did you keep the plant part and it's now inside the plumbob?

I also am not getting the part where you say, "Scaling them DOES NOT work. This mesh wont scale..." I cloned the plumbob and I see it in MS and it scales just fine. Are you saying that you scaled it in MS but it showed up with no size change in the game?

All of this I gotta see Please describe the exact steps you took in creating your elusive plumbob. I want to see the thing float in my game

On the other hand, if all you want is a more standard piece of deco outta the plumbob, you could clone it, bring it into MS, save it as an obj, close that. Bring in your atrium fern clone, delete the glass group, bring your plumbob clone in and put it in place of the glass group, scale it so it fits around the plant, assign joints, and then export that to overwrite the atrium fern.

If you do it that way you can use the plumbob shape and I'm pretty confident it won't be floating and spinning in the game.

Out of idle curiosity I gave it a try. The thing is funny-looking but well-behaved:





I had to scale it to get it to fit around the plant and it kept the size I adjusted it to using MS scaling.

My guess is that your object can't be picked up because of some mistake you made in the object creation process. But you haven't given enough specific information about your method to tell what exactly that mistake is.

When you made your deco piece what did you do with the atrium plant group that has the plant and the metal atrium frame?

I'm tempted to add a smart remark about meshing errors made by someone who sees floating, spinning plumbobs in his game and what that might imply about what said mesher was smoking at the time but I'm worried you might take that the wrong way...lol.
Banned
Original Poster
#12 Old 28th Feb 2010 at 3:24 PM
I dont know how simpler I can make it.

I took the modl with the instance(or group or type I dont know) of 0x000000 and REPLACED IT WITH THE MODL FOR THE PLUMBOB. That is 100% all I did!
One horse disagreer of the Apocalypse
#13 Old 28th Feb 2010 at 3:26 PM
You can't do that. There are all manner of internal references in a scenegraph resource you have to marry up with the rest of the stuff in the package. Lol you're lucky it shows up in the game at all

"You can do refraction by raymarching through the depth buffer" (c. Reddeyfish 2017)
Banned
Original Poster
#14 Old 28th Feb 2010 at 3:32 PM
Do you want the package? I clearly can do it, as I did. :\ I am sorry for getting frustrated but I've said it 3 or 4 times now, I dont know why I have to keep repeating it.

It has the wrong thumbnail and it costs 5000 dollars and is in misc deco. It floats. It spins. It does dishes. Here you go.
Attached files:
File Type: zip  Claeric_Sculptureplumbob.zip (572.0 KB, 6 downloads) - View custom content
Alchemist
#15 Old 28th Feb 2010 at 3:30 PM
Well then that explains it. You took a two-group modl and overwrote it with a single-group modl. Meanwhile it sounds like you didn't change the two-group mlod for the atrium fern at all.

Either way, the game became confused because it wants two groups for the atrium fern and you gave it one. eta: I'm with Inge on this...it's sort of surprising the thing showed up in the game at all.

And no Claeric, you are *not* being specific about how you went about this. When you replaced the modl did you do this in MS or did you simply rename the thing and import it that way? Did you use the ObjTool for any of this or just s3pe? If you used the ObjTool I'm surprised it didn't complain about the fact that you were missing a group. What about the mlod...did you replace that with the modl also?

The issue you're having though is because you didn't create the object correctly and not because of some magic inherent in the plumbob shape itself. If you follow the directions in meshing tutorials like Ella's you'll be able to have a plumbob deco piece like the one I showed above
One horse disagreer of the Apocalypse
#16 Old 28th Feb 2010 at 3:32 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Claeric
I clearly can do it, as I did.


s/can't/shouldn't then, if you must have everything 100% literal.

"You can do refraction by raymarching through the depth buffer" (c. Reddeyfish 2017)
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Original Poster
#17 Old 28th Feb 2010 at 3:38 PM
You're saying that because I did it wrong, it has all the properties of the plumbob? It has nothing to do with the model being the plumbob's model? I don't quite think that makes sense, assuming that's what you mean. It sounds like you're saying ANY object made wrong will float and spin and be refractive.

I opened the atrium.

I exported the modl. (Only for the vxpy stuff).

I opened the plumbob. I exported the modl. I used obj tool to decompile. I imported into milkshape. I rotated/moved. I exported. I recompiled. I opened the atrium in s3pe. I right clicked and replaced the modl with the one for the plumbob.

And now it has reflectiveness, refractiveness, floatiness, and spinnyness. There HAS to be something inherent in it, why would an object made wrong revert to acting just like the plumbob? All I did was replace teh mesh, and now they have the same function. It's cool, but I'd like to be able to pick it up, is all.

As for resizing, I am saying it does not appear resized in game, at all. I made it 5x the normal size and moved it up quite a bit, but in game it's still the normal size and barely moved up. You can see it in the package. THe package I just uploaded has one that is sscaled 5x.
One horse disagreer of the Apocalypse
#18 Old 28th Feb 2010 at 3:43 PM
You're confusing me. One moment you say you just replaced the MODL, the next you are saying you just replaced the mesh.

"You can do refraction by raymarching through the depth buffer" (c. Reddeyfish 2017)
Banned
Original Poster
#19 Old 28th Feb 2010 at 3:49 PM
I dont know what the difference is. I replaced the thing with 0x000000 as a group id.The extracted file was .model.

edit: Apparently it's "MLOD" and it is surrounded by things called "MODL". I dont know what the difference is. I called it a mesh because that's...what it is, right? You open it in milkshape, edit it, changes are reflected visually in game? I dont know. I replaced the "MLOD" then.
Alchemist
#20 Old 28th Feb 2010 at 3:51 PM Last edited by orangemittens : 28th Feb 2010 at 4:09 PM.
Well whatever you did you took a clone with 3 MLODs and a MODL and turned it into an object with 2 MLODs and a MODL. Further, one of those MLODs in your object has 0 groups when it should have 1 group.

Also, as I said, your MODL has only 1 group whereas the Atrium Fern MODL has 2. This alone is gonna screw up your object. While it's clearly possible for someone to botch something up as you've done the end result is a botched item in-game...that is one which cannot be picked up.

I suggest you read a tutorial or two and try making the thing again correctly instead of thrashing around trying to somehow make more of this than simple meshing mistakes.

eta: I opened each of the MLODs and the MODL for your object in MS. Interestingly enough the MLOD is the kitchen utensiles MLOD but with atrium fern mesh (all three groups: glass, plant & frame, and shadow) but the MODL is the MODL for the kitchen utensils but has the mesh for the plumbob.

Clearly you did a little more than what you've described Claeric or how else did the kitchen utensil MODL get into your Atrium fern clone? I think one of the problems going on here for sure is that you aren't really certain exactly what it is you did or did not do...you may think you are...but it's obvious from looking at the parts of this package that you are not.
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Original Poster
#21 Old 28th Feb 2010 at 4:11 PM
Well, either way, now I want to know what makes it shiny and refractive. I am not interested in a glass plumbob like the one you made, I want THE plumbob, and I am happy that it does what it does. If I fix it, I want it to keep doing that.

But I dont know how it does it, and how to preserve it.

Edit: For the last time. I am very sorry for getting angry with you, but I told you all I did. I replaced the ONE and ONLY one file. Do you want me to make a video of me doing it? I dont know what else I can say. I did what I said I did. I replaced that one and only one file.

And it's the kitchen utensil because I was mistaken, I made various versions to see if it would be picked up with any other object replaced, instead. So I have an atrium one and a kitchen utensil one, I must have uploaded the utensil one, which is probably using the extracted REPLACED atrium.

But that doesn't matter anyway, as the original atrium one spins and floats too. Anything I replace with it spins and floats, without me doing anything extra.
Alchemist
#22 Old 28th Feb 2010 at 4:12 PM
To determine that you're gonna have to figure out exactly what it is that you did in the first place...this is exactly the question. We started out with you sayin' that all you did was "replace" the modl of the atrium fern with the modl for the plumbob.

Now we find that somehow the kitchen utensils were cloned and the atrium fern MLOD used to overwrite its MLOD. God only knows what else you did but you can't expect anyone here to know when you clearly can't even determine it yourself.
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Original Poster
#23 Old 28th Feb 2010 at 4:18 PM
I edited the previous post with more information.

I dont do anything extra but replace the one file. It'll do it with anything I replace, I imagine, as it has twice.
Me? Sarcastic? Never.
staff: administrator
#24 Old 28th Feb 2010 at 4:20 PM Last edited by HugeLunatic : 28th Feb 2010 at 4:34 PM. Reason: typos
I second OM's suggestion to read some tutorials. Especially the one by Ellacharm3d as it explains everything you need to know.

Problem with this package seems to be multiple issues. The clone package itself is the kitchen utensils, the MLOD has the mesh of the atrium fern and the MODL has the plumbob. If you had read an actual tutorial you would know you need to change all MLOD/MODL. So this is probably the reason you cannot grab it since the bounding box is also contained in the MLOD/MODL when decompiling/recompiling.

The shiny and floating/spinning is most likely due to the plumbob shader in the mtlsrc. Which if you read the threads here in meshing/modding you would know about those mtlsrc files.

Go read a tutorial.
One horse disagreer of the Apocalypse
#25 Old 28th Feb 2010 at 4:22 PM Last edited by Inge Jones : 28th Feb 2010 at 4:37 PM.
Quote: Originally posted by Claeric
I dont know what the difference is.


Usually the term "MLOD" refers to the entire packed resource. This comprises several references into other resources needed by the object, as well as some "chunks" of data, one or more of which are the mesh itself.

When someone says they replaced the MLODI think of it as meaning in S3PE they right-clicked the MLOD resource and chose Replace - and substituted it for an entire MLOD resource exported from another object.

If on the other hand you exported the MLOD, disassembled it with Wes's tool, took the mesh into milkshape and the replacement was at this level, for a different 3D model, then I would call that replacing the mesh, rather than replacing the MLOD.

"You can do refraction by raymarching through the depth buffer" (c. Reddeyfish 2017)
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