It was in Las Vegas, and we're not talking about a group of teenagers in a cheap diner, they were well-off adults (in their 50's) in an expensive restaurant!

Again again again, not every barista makes that much money. I make $7.00 an hour and in a city that's considered pretty wealthy because it's tourist area. The city that has two theme parks, colonial areas and 90% of it's population is either retired people, rich people (the kind where the husbands work at some suit and tie job and the wife stays home all day but goes and spends hundreds of dollars at Target several times a week) and law students. Supposedly since the cost of living is much higher in this city than the ones around it ($1400 rent for the same size apartment as my $530 one) we're supposed to get paid more.
Have you tried living off a seven dollars? Either wait we don't "have the nerve" to assume you will tip. Or at least I dont. It's not as though I bring the tip jar myself from home and sit it out there.
For me this whole thread isn't about whether or not someone want to leave me some change it's about people looking at me while I am at work and realizing that hey! I'm an actual person with my own real life. I dont just stand here at Starbucks and then just disappear into thin air when it closes only to reappear at opening. More than a tip I'd love to see some acknowledgement that they understand that I'm doing my best with the job I have. I suppose not everyone works like that but you shouldn't assume that everyone there doesn't care.

First I have to say if anyone assumed I was leaving my money and took the liberty upon themselves to make that decision would hear from me. I would get the manager out too, being SAHM money is tight and places like Starbucks or Caribou Coffee are treats for us... (for the non coffee drinkers, like me, they have this really tasty carmel apple blast with no coffee in, it tastes like an apple pie and the kids get a hot chocolate ) I don't ever tip in there, they are doing their job.

For the people saying the barista is more personable are you saying that the people in fast food places don't go above and beyond to be pleasant? I've gone into fast food places where the person at the counter was very pleasant and we did have a conversation... heck, I worked at a fast food place and we were under no circumstance suppose to accept tips, we were doing our job. How about that person at Wal-Mart out working the floor helping the customers, if they're doing their job right they're showing by actually bringing the customer where the product is. They're most likely chatting with the customer, you know what... they're doing their job and never expect a tip.

I also worked as a waitress at a nice dinner club... I hated the job but the tips were very nice so I stayed there for a while. I was paid minimum wage + we pooled the tips and split it at the end of the shift. Yet still now, if the service was bad and I'm talking the service, you have to actually come to the table and ask how the food is, is there anything else you can get me, and see if I need a refill on my drink no matter refills are free or not, if the service is bad you only get one dollar/person at the table. If it's really bad I don't leave anything... you know the service, your waitress takes your order and then goes on break, someone else brings your food and you don't hear back from anyone and have to ask for the bill so you can leave.

In most places you get paid at least the federal minimum wage... there is the exception where wait staff is paid about $2.15 but the employees have to make at least $30 in tips/month.

Here's a link to the Department of Labor - Employment Guide

Here's the bit on tip wages for those who don't want to glance through the page.

So let me get this straight your server has done all she could to make your meal enjoyable, was attentive but not irritating everything was perfect. You would feel ok not leaving a tip and walking out? Not only is a tip actual financial reimbursement for a job well done it's a measure of whther or not you do your job well. If I was doing an excellent job at work I would get a raise. Servers get tips. So you can't afford to leave a tip and you dont' tell her thats why you don't leave a tip so now she's busted her ass for nothing AND she thinks she may have done something to offend you. It's insulting. I am not saying bad servers get tips. Servers don't get paychecks. They get paid, but by the time taxes are taken their checks are gone. Have you ever worked your ass off for two weeks and received a check for 18 cents?! So if I'm not making a pay check and we assume that people are operating on your 'if I can't afford it I'm not tipping" theory. This server has just volunteered her time to bring you your food, your drink, make sure your meal is going well etc. because you're obviously not going to pay her (tip) for doing it and she doesn't get money from her employer. I am not your mother, I am not your maid. You don't want to pay me for waiting on you then you can go in the back and get it yourself. That said, people handle bad service their own way. I'm only talking about great great service. Not tipping a good server for any reason short of being robbed while at the resturant is tacky and tasteless.
As far as staying home if you can't afford a tip, that's common sense. If I go into a place with $10 and what I want is 8.95, it's time to pick something else. I would be absolutely mortified to not leave a tip in a sit-down establishment. I've seen excellent servers in tears because someone didn't leave them a tip. I politely asked the manager what the total was of the table that didn't tip and when I left my tip, I left theirs too. And maybe that week I couldn't get something for myself or I stayed home in stead of going out that night, but maybe that girl paid her rent, maybe she got some formula for her baby, maybe she was able to make a car payment or maybe she was able to go out with her friends either way that girl deserved that money.


You keep saying that you've worked low paying jobs but your low paying jobs are still triple what a server makes!! You can't compare server wages to minimum wage.

That's rediculous! Why would they even need a tip if they're working in a fine restaurant like that? Some people are so stupid and greedy!

Just because someone is making minimum wage doesn't mean they are living a good life. I couldn't imagine trying to raise a family on that wage.The cost of living isn't cheap. I was a carhop at sonic...yes I got minimum wage but I also got tips and I did make a good amount of money. But I was a teenager living with my parents.I worked with single mothers and trust me, they needed every dollar they could get.

In the UK we tend not to leave tips... except maybe in top-notch restaurants, or is that just me o.O

However on holiday 10% is the usual amount (50 euro meal, 5 euro tip :P) for my family to pay, which as far as I know most restaurants I have tipped split it up and share it with all the staff (which is a good bit extra on their pay check I imagine).

[BTW what is the minimum wage in the US? (well average) as over here anything under £4 something is illegal for over 18s o.O sorry just some of the phrasing I might have misunderstood LOL]

I tip whenever service has warrented it, period. If my server at Starbucks, or wherever has done a great job or makes a kick @$$ latte, i tip, happily and freely. If someone, waitress, barista, etc, automatically TAKES a tip, that is stealing. It doesn't belong to them until the customer gives it. Kudos to you Psy10 for getting the manager and informing him of the situation.

Honestly, I think the minimum wage vs waitress wage is irrelevant. Obviously, you should tip your waitress accordingly -- they make like $3 an hour. But just because someone makes min. wage doesn't mean you shouldn't tip. What about bartenders? The make decent money and still expect a tip. As well they should for good service given. Of course there are many places where employees are not allowed to take tips - WalMart being an example. But it is naive to think doctors and lawyers don't get "tips," they are just not in monetary form. They get given tickets to shows, gift certifs, and the like all the time - and I guarantee those are worth more than the 50 cent tip I give at Starbucks!

pieridae


oops, double posted:




There are two minimum wages, maybe three: The standard min. wage is $5.50 an hour, the waitress min. wage is I think $2.33, and there might even be another one for agricultural workers.

Because they only make $2 an hour.....

Serious? Seriously? Seriously? I'm having a Grey's Anatomy moment.



Um...because that's her job?


I don't quite understand what you're saying. She's not volunteering. This is her job! Duh.


Um...again why are you a waiter or waitress if you feel it's not your job to get the meal for the patron? Also, this is usually in the beginning of the meal. You have NO idea if this person is going to tip you or not so I hope the attitude that you're giving off on the Net is not the same one you have at work.


This I agree with. I have yet to get bad service so I've always left a nice tip.


Seriously? Seriously? They either need to get a new job or tougher skin. I'm just sayin'.


Even as a tipper I don't agree with this. Your rent, your husband, your baby, etc... is none of my concern. I don't care if your a struggling college student. I am not responsible for paying your bills. Also, how in the world do you know if she deserved it or not?

:2cents:

Waitress/Waiter jobs are advertised as base pay + tips. The tips matter way more than the base pay.

I don't know how else to explain this. Servers makes, on average, $2-3 an hour. When they get their pay checks they are usually for less than $5 due to taxes and what not. I've seen friends come home with checks for 2 cents. So if a good server works for one hour and happens to come across 5 tables worth of people who believe tipping is ridiculous, she just did her job and did it well... for free. A check for 2 weeks that is $5, divided by 80 hours (say she works a 40 hour week) means she just worked for 6 cents an hour. Please tell me where else they work for 6 cents an hour.



Uhhh, if my boss called me into her office tomorrow and said "You know what, we know you worked real hard this week but we're not gonna pay you. We don't feel we have to." I'd cry too and it would be illegal.



Katrina victims, Darfur, slavery..not my concern. Now I know it's an extreme of what you said but if people always looked at other's problems as "not my concern" the world would be a hell of a lot worse than it is already. I know she deserved it because we were sitting right next to the ones that left no tip, and I have a terrible terrible habit of eavesdropping in restaurants (it will get you in HUGE trouble I don't recommend it. One day you're eavesdropping, next day you're getting sued.) and heard them actually comment on what a lovely server she was and then stopped the manager as he was walking by to tell him what a great job she had done. Maybe this was some kind of joke on their part, I don't know. She was also our server and she did great.

as far as my attitude I believe I've been respectful and have not said anything to offend anyone and my thoughts on servers doesn't effect my job because I am not now, nor have I ever been, a server. Most of my friends are though and that's how I know how much they make and how much no tip actually hurts their feelings slightly more than their wallets

Also if employers eliminated the tipping custom by paying servers minimum wage or better guess who's gonna pay for that? You. Because now they have to make enough money to cover the business as well as employee wages, so all prices go up.

Very extreme. I won't even comment further.


That would actually be fine by me. We would win more then we lose.

Woh..........I think there is a mistaken crossing here. I feel there is a BIG difference between "tip jars" and tipping a waitress. Someone with a Tip jar is probably making around min. wage. Tips are nice, but not needed. BUT, in the U.S. ..............waiting tables does not pay min wage! It is a job that is expected to earn money based on tips. In theory, the better the server, the better the tips. We all know wait staff is paid way below min wage. We all know they make their money on tips. So if you don't like that system, why are you going out and getting waited on??? Why aren't you going to some other "pick up" restaurant and getting the food yourself so you don't have to tip? Why would you penalize the wait staff for the job system?

^Are you talking to me? If so, I know that. I actually don't have a problem with tipping waiters and waitresses or my hairstylist for that matter. It's shaedigga's attitude and sense of entitlement that is off putting. Regardless, if you're getting paid min. wage or not, the customer does not owe you a tip. A tip is for good, great, exceptional service.

I was wondering is restaurants in the US add a service charge? In the UK some restaurants add 12.5% to your bill as a service charge (ie a tip). However this doesn't always go straight to the serving staff. You don't have to pay it. If the service wasn't good you can not pay it, or you could choose to give it to the waitress instead. It is usually written in small print and most people probably don't realise they are paying it and end up giving a tip as well.

In the US gratuity is added if there are more then 7 people at the table. When I lived in the UK (London to be exact), some restaurants added 10% and others left it up to you.

I liove in the UK, and both me anbd my family tend to leave a £1 tip if it's good, more if it's excellant, and zero if the service was bad. It is up to me if I want to pay, and if I need the cash for something myself, I am likely to not pay it.

An example is this happened when I was younger. I was on a school trip, and the teachers gave each group of 5 people £40, £8 each. I went with some of my friends, and as I had no money left, and I needed to eat the next day on the journey home, I only spent £2 of that on some garlic bread and cheese, plus I drank water. I also owed about £4 in total to other people, so I calculated that I would have £2 left to buy a sandwich and maybe a drink the next day. What my friends did instead was to leave the rest of the money, despite the fact that I told them I needed it, and told me to stop being selfish.

The end result? I was in tears the journey back to the hotel, and I didn't eat anything the next day until I got home that evening.

Also, above all, it's in their job description to be nice to customers. I've recently finished a month of work placement in Essex Libraries with no pay for one of my modules, and it is required for any staff member to go above and beyond for no additional pay.

I had to put up with standing up constantly from 9am to 5pm.
I had to deal with explaining the check-out system politely and ignore the complaints about how 'technology never works' from the OAPs.
I had to put up with users yelling at me saying that it's disgraceful that she would have to pay a £5 fine because she didn't read the receipt that told her in big letters when her books were due back.
I had to put up with people laughing at me because I am doing a job that they don't think needs anything other than basic literacy skills.
I had to help with enquires of all varieties, from information about probate law to what concerts are happening in the local area.
I helped out and read to the disabled, the young, and the old.
I had to have a good knowledge of computers, and got blamed by the customer if anything went wrong with the Internet.
I was continuously pulled from my specified job to help both patrons and other staff.
I had to pay all travelling expenses myself.

These are just a few of the things I experienced.

Do I think I should have got tips from that? No. It's my job to do these things.

If I was at a place that charged $29.75 for an item, I wouldn't order it. Frankyly, there are only two times when I would tip: A) When the pizza delivery guy brings me my pizza (or whatever food I order) which amounts to about $12.46 or B) When I am out with my girlfriend, who refuses that I pay for her unless it is her Birthday. There my order amounts to $6 to $8. But I always slip the wait staff another bill while my gf isn't looking because I don't like to leave anything under a dollar for them.

But for an order of $29.75, I would leave a bit more. But I don't think I have ever been in that situation (nor would I want to be), so the point is mute.

If I leave a tip and how much is entirely my choice. If the service was excellent, the tip is excellent. If the service is poor, the tip is poor. And if the service lectures me about how much I give them, they learn the hard way that you don't bite the hand that feeds you.

No i didn't mean you. Though looking back on my post I can see that it sounds that way, sorry. I'm talking in general. However customers DO owe a tip. You can be legally banned from a place (in the U.S.) for not tipping. THis isn't a one time thing of course, but say you've been in the place ten times and never tipped. They can legally ban you from coming back. In some places, like restaurants I've been to in NY, tipping is not an option. 15% will be added to the bill, and if you really liked the service, another tip might be left at the table. If someone wants to start a bill in the U.S. to see that wait staff are paid at least min wage, then tipping them wouldn't be such a big deal. But as it is, in the US, people KNOW that whatever the meal, they are expected to tip around 15% to the wait staff. It isn't a new vampire company concept.





And for this you are paid 2.50$ U.S. dollars an hour? I'm doubting it. Wait staff does NOT even get MIN wage!!! Why are people comparing this to other jobs? Anyone who is not a wait staff that is being paid 2.50$ U.S. dollars an hour, please speak up! Hmm, I suspect I will only hear silence.

She said in her post she wasn't paid at all.

Some Wiki stuff: (this applies to the USA)

- In countries where tipping is the rule (for example the United States) complicated social rules and etiquette have developed over the exact percentage to tip, and what should and should not be included in this calculation. In other cultures where tipping exists it is more flexible and no specific assumptions of the tip amount exist.

Conclusion: tipping is the norm in the US, not the exception, the only confusion should be how much to tip, not whether or not it's just "optional"

- Some establishments pool tips and divide them to include employees who lack customer contact. At some restaurants, agreements among the staff require the servers to tip out members of the support staff (kitchen, bartender, and busser) at the end of their shift; this means that servers pay a certain fixed percentage of their sales (most often a portion less than 15 percent of total sales) to the other staff. Thus when a patron leaves a small tip, it results in the server having to receive less from the tipping pool than other staff.

Conclusion: when you don't tip for good/great service, you're affecting many more people than just your server

- Tipping in the United States is widely practiced and is culturally considered by some as a social obligation under a variety of circumstances. Many find the system antiquated, adding an unnecessary complication for the customer. Employees in occupations where tipping is common sometimes receive very low salaries and receive the bulk of their compensation in tips. United States wage laws stipulate lower minimums for occupations where tipping is expected.

Conclusion: A person chooses a waitstaff job because the salary is base pay PLUS TIPS. No sane person would work merely for the base pay below minumum wage most traditional restaurants offer. Until the traditional way of compensating a waitstaff is changed, this is how it is. The only occupations that legally allow less than minimum wage are those occupations for which tipping is expected. And believe me...if a waiter puts a big ZERO on their tax return for "tips and gratuities" the IRS would raise some major eyebrows, because it is the norm. Do you really think someone who only earns $2.50 an hour is going to care if your food is correct/hot/cold/prompt or infested with something?

- Tipping is always up to the discretion of the person receiving the service. When tipping is expected, giving a very small tip, such as a penny, is used as a deliberate snub, to indicate service was mediocre or inferior

Conclusion: The ONLY time not to tip is when the service is truly terrible (in which case the manager should also be informed)

- Tipping is considered by some to be a social obligation in restaurants having traditional table service. The customary tip for a restaurant meal in the United States traditionally ranged from 10 to 15 percent of the total bill (before tax), with 15 to 20 % now the norm

Conclusion: In my experience, this is absolutely true, and I do this everywhere in the US, not just in NY. (I actually tend to overtip...most people I know who have been waiters or bartenders do because they know the staff probably got screwed by someone else)

- According to Fodor's: At restaurants, a 15% tip is typical for waiters; up to 20% may be expected by some waiters at more expensive establishments. Good service is expected, and it is sometimes acceptable for a tip lower than 10% or even nothing for ordinary or unsatisfactory service.

Conclusion: Again, a tip means something, whether you give it or not. Good to great service should always be rewarded with some kind of tip.

- Tipping at fast food restaurants and coffee places such as Starbucks (where there is no traditional table service), is not necessary, despite the growing number of tip jars (a.k.a. "guilt jars") appearing at them

Conclusion: LOL...Starbucks is a marketing phenomenon...guilt-jars indeed lol. Workers at these places choose these jobs for an explicitly-stated salary at or above the legal minimum wage, and do NOT expect tips to calculate their expected income.

OT:

Therefore, don't bother with tip jars unless you want to BUT tipping the waitstaff for traditional table service is overwhelmingly the norm here in the US. The only time to NOT leave a tip is when: the service is really terrible (but you should tell the manager as well), or you TRULY cannot afford to (in which case praising the waitstaff to the management for good service is even more important).

Yes, tipping is up the the customer's discretion, but that does not mean it is "optional" for traditional table service. It means the tip should be proportionate to the service.

EDIT: (I was a waiter for 3 years :eviltongu , and despite it being unnecessary, I'd still leave a buck or two for good service at Starbucks)

simsartthat - Great post. Loved the summaries.

I think people are taking my "you must tip" stance incorrectly. I said it in an earlier post but I thought I'd reiterate. My position on this issue is solely based on good to exceptional service. I don't believe that bad service should be compensated. If you were bad at your job, you'd get fired and wouldn't get a paycheck, so bad servers shouldn't get paid either. How people deal with poor service is varied and I've been lucky enough to not have ever really experienced truly poor service. I have always been told that instead of not leaving a tip for poor service you should leave something like $1. No tip can be brushed off as either forgotten or you're just not a tipper. $1 means (at least how I've been told), "I acknowledge your service, however, it was terrible."

There is no way that I'm leaving a tip for bad service. I'm not obligated to tip (but I do, in most cases), but bad service will not receive a tip from me.



I may not feel right walking out w/o tipping, but if I can't afford a tip, then I won't. I'm only obligated to pay for my meal and nothing more. And if I choose to go to a restaurant and can only afford to pay for my meal, then I will do just that. It's my decision if I want to go to a restaurant or not, whether I can afford to tip or not.



Well said, Psy! My feelings exactly.

That's exactly right