There were some objects that I wanted to download from the "Paysites must be destroyed" website, but before I do so, I want to be sure that I'm not doing anything illegal.

If someone is payed for their creations for the Sims 2 game, whether by EA themselves or by an unofficial Sims 2 website, then isn't it technically wrong to download the items for free, without consent from the creators, or website?

Is there anyone here that is a frequenter of the Paysites must die website? If so, please tell me. I don't know if it's too much trouble for a couple of sim items to risk doing something that could get me in trouble with the law. :P

and sorry if i posted this in the wrong section... wasn't sure where else to put it.

Yeah, It's not going to get you into trouble.

If I recall correctly, I remember members saying that it isn't legal to charge for custom content in the first place.

EA very carefully waffled on that one.

But the ultimate answer to your question is that you are not going to face any legal issues by downloading from that site, especially if you don't register or post. Neither the artists nor EA are going to sue everybody who downloads, and nobody can find Pescado to sue him.

The moral issue is one you have to decide for yourself, although there have been artists who left the community because they got tired of having their wishes ignored.

I've never heard of EA ever even being bothered by the PMBD site. They're very well aware of Pescado and his crew-and in fact, they're somewhat beholden to him for what he's done for mods and hacks for their games.

So download away..but don't go on TSR and boast about it. TSR is one of the very few sites which has watermarks on their downloads (which are removed by the people at PMBD), and they hate the Booty with a passion, but there's not much they can do about it.

Oh I see.
Thanks for all your replies, I think I've made my decision.

I just feel rather guilty downloading those items... like there's some sort of hidden reckoning waiting for me in the future to teach me a lesson if I follow through..
I do despise the pay system though.

There really are two aspects to your question: (1) is it legal to download booty, and (2) is it moral to do so. I think the answer to the first is that it probably is legal. As to the moral issue, that is up to you.

As for the legal, Pescado gives reasons which are rather bogus: namely that the paysites developed items with tools developed by the community. To me, this is like saying that Microsoft has a copyright to a novel I might write because I used Word in writing the novel.

I think the better legal argument is that TSR is claiming some sort of rights to items which they do not have. For starters, the content almost always is created by someone else. When I upload an item to TSR, I give them permission to host the items permanently -- whatever that means. Please note that permanent may or may not mean irrevokable. It also is not exclusive; there is nothing to prevent me from also posting my item to MTS or the Exchange. My consent to TSR hosting the item probably is not even enforceable, because I have not received any consideration -- and without consideration, there is no contract.

This, of course, assumes that I as the creator even hold a copyright to the items. This also is a highly dubious claim. First of all, my work is derivative of the work by EA. EA clearly has a copyright to the Sims, and all derivative works as well. (Forget the license agreement, this is basic copyright law.) Just because EA has granted me permission to make derivative works, does not mean that I have a copyright to these works. Additionally, most of the custom content was made by someone else. I may make a new outfit, but the only thing I "created" was a DDS file. Most likely, I used someone else's mesh. In many cases, my outfit may be based on a picture I saw online or in a fashion magazine. Finally, almost every item is manufactured under a fictitious name. I can assure you that my real name is not "TJ Streak". So if you download and use an item made by TJ Streak, there is no actual person named TJ Streak who can raise a stink about it.

Finally, few items of CC content contain any copyright notice -- even though it is possible to include such a notice in the CAS or buy/build thumbnail. If someone is really serious about asserting some sort of claim to a piece of custom content, the least they can do is alert the world to this fact.

As to the moral issue, well, that is up to you. Personally, I do not feel a lot of sympathy towards someone who is asserting a right to someone else's work.
* * *
Oh, and I would note that I have posted a number of items, both here and on TSR. As far as I am concerned, anything I create is public domain. By the same token, I turn a deaf ear to pissing and moaning because something I create is not up to someone else's standards; if you don't like it, don't download it.

As far as other creators "leaving the community" because someone else is using their stuff, my answer is "grow up." If you were not creating items to make money, why should you really care is someone enjoys your item and is making use of it? If someone else is claiming credit for your work, and this actually bothers you, put your name on the thumbnail which appears in game -- it's not all that hard to do. If you are creating items to make money, why in the world are you posting it to someone else's site?

Why should you feel guilty about downloading something that will make your game better or more enjoyable?
The legal argument is specious at best from TSR and other paysites. As noted, all the meshes of original objects that come from the game are owned by EA, and the game itself is as well. EA owns the trademarks and the copyrights to all of the game.
So no matter what any pay creator says or does, it is not going to have any repercussions on your downloading their stuff from the booty.
They just don't get paid for something they made from someone else's work, ie, EA's. If EA really wanted to enforce their EULA, they would have to go after those people, not you, for having done plagiarism, intellectual theft and breach of copyright.

In short, don't sweat it. Nobody is going to "report" you to the authorities for it, and nobody really cares-including EA.

It boils down to respecting creator wishes. If the creator posted the content for pay at a site where they are a joint owner, they expected and desired to be paid for it. Is this stupid? Your call. Is downloading it for free stealing? Again: your call.

And this is going to turn into another Great Paysite Debate thread if it lasts too long, so if someone could find the link to the old forum and the last debates, that might be good.

I was waiting for a mod to post this and lock this thread, but in any case:

The Great Paysites Debate

I think the big problem people have with this is that pay-creators will use tools to make their pay-content that has been made by a free-creator who has stated that the tool is not to be used to make pay-content, therefore they are going against the free-creator's policies. I'm definitely not trying to get into a debate about it, just this is something I've noticed about that particular point.

Personally I have no problem with downloading from the booty and have done so on many occasions.

This explains why I'd rather release my mods under an open (i.e. GNU or Creative Commons) license rather than ask money for it. I would, of course, ask for money if I'm developing a commercial/retail game or app, but for a hair mesh or game hack that only eats up mere kilobytes of space in my hard disk, no, never.

Surprised this is not locked already. Perhaps the mods are out on a picnic?