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Instructor
Original Poster
#1 Old 2nd Apr 2010 at 1:46 AM
Default Pattern showing faint on shiny chair!
I made a shiny chair, I wanted it to look a bit metallic, but I've a problem now.
When I use the design tool the pattern looks very faint ( pic 1 )
but when the design tool hovers over the chair the pattern looks like it should. ( pic 2 )

Any ideas anyone please?





You can find more of my stuff here: http://www.blackpearlsims.com/downloads.php
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Me? Sarcastic? Never.
staff: administrator
Instructor
Original Poster
#3 Old 2nd Apr 2010 at 2:22 AM
Actually it has a grey one, because I wanted the chair shiny, I gave it a grey one.
White I believe would've been too much and a black alpha wouldn't make it shiny.

You can find more of my stuff here: http://www.blackpearlsims.com/downloads.php
Alchemist
#4 Old 2nd Apr 2010 at 3:05 AM
I think you need a black Specular alpha Dee. If you want to change the shine of your object you can do that by editing the shine in the mtlsrcs of your MLOD1 and MODL.
Instructor
Original Poster
#5 Old 2nd Apr 2010 at 4:54 AM
Thank you guys, but I'm using the workshop...sorry.

OM, if you can tell me which file to edit, is it in the specular?

You can find more of my stuff here: http://www.blackpearlsims.com/downloads.php
One horse disagreer of the Apocalypse
#6 Old 2nd Apr 2010 at 9:11 AM
I believe the alpha in the specular is the correct thing to edit. Your pattern is looking faint for a completely realistic reason - light reflected from it, giving you "glare". You know if your monitor screen has a light reflected in it, you can't see the image on your monitor so well.

Also pay attention to the colour of your rgb channels in the specular. Are they also grey?

"You can do refraction by raymarching through the depth buffer" (c. Reddeyfish 2017)
Alchemist
#7 Old 2nd Apr 2010 at 11:45 AM
The mtlsrcs are part of the MLOD1 and MODL. You need to decompile those and open them with a text editor to edit them. The one you need to change is the Phong slider for most objects that aren't glass, mirror, or some other special material like that. For a lot of objects I've seen the shininess is set at 20 but I've seen a few where the shininess is at 23 and those are more shiny but without that completely washed out look a non-black specular alpha will give you. There are usually two mtlsrcs per MLOD1 and two per MODL that you need to change.
One horse disagreer of the Apocalypse
#8 Old 2nd Apr 2010 at 12:12 PM
But aren't those settings only modifiers for the Specular image, so eventually taking the specular alpha dark enough will give just the right amount of shine? But anyway if the OP does have to change these values you are suggesting, there is a place in TSRW it can be done. Go into Mesh tab, and for each mesh group there are some materials sections, some are nested. The "shininess" value can be edited there.

"You can do refraction by raymarching through the depth buffer" (c. Reddeyfish 2017)
Alchemist
#9 Old 2nd Apr 2010 at 12:43 PM
They probably are but I find it easier to just change the number to one I know EA uses to get a nice shine effect rather than fiddle around with the Spec through trial and error. Plus, everytime I open the Spec to change it I risk losing or reversing the alpha and then I have to fix that problem which gets old fast...lol. Opening the mtlsrc and changing a number in the Phong slider takes seconds and is very precise.
Instructor
Original Poster
#10 Old 2nd Apr 2010 at 1:30 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Inge Jones
I believe the alpha in the specular is the correct thing to edit. Your pattern is looking faint for a completely realistic reason - light reflected from it, giving you "glare". You know if your monitor screen has a light reflected in it, you can't see the image on your monitor so well.

Also pay attention to the colour of your rgb channels in the specular. Are they also grey?


The colour of my RGB channels are white and the alpha channel is light grey.
I see where I can change the value of the shine, thank you for that info.

I will try a black alpha and change the shine value, hopefully then the pattern shows up properly.

OM, thank you so much, I appreciate every ones help.

You can find more of my stuff here: http://www.blackpearlsims.com/downloads.php
One horse disagreer of the Apocalypse
#11 Old 2nd Apr 2010 at 1:36 PM
A black alpha will take away *all* the shine. I usually go for mid-grey on my specular rgb. I think you may well find that makes quite a difference.

"You can do refraction by raymarching through the depth buffer" (c. Reddeyfish 2017)
Alchemist
#12 Old 3rd Apr 2010 at 12:21 AM
Inge how do you go about doing that? I've only been able to figure out how to do all black or all white when making my specular.

Dee, I hope that works for you...if not I would try doing what Inge said. I just wish I knew how to do it...lol.
Instructor
Original Poster
#13 Old 3rd Apr 2010 at 12:43 AM
I thought that an all black alpha would take the shine away, that's why I made mine grey but I think I made it too light. A little bit less shine might bring the pattern out better.
I'll try what you said Inge, thank you.

OM, I just make a black alpha in Photo Shop then fill it with grey.

You can find more of my stuff here: http://www.blackpearlsims.com/downloads.php
Alchemist
#14 Old 3rd Apr 2010 at 1:23 AM
Well, if what Inge said before is right (and she is usually right), and the mtlsrc slider changes are modifying the specular, than either way of going about this should work.

If that's the case, I still think that just picking an EA number that looks good on their objects in-game should be an easy way of achieving the same outcome. It's all in what seems easiest to you...trial and error with the grey of your specular alpha, or editing the mtlsrcs with a known value from an EA item. To me, editing the mtlsrcs is easier than tinkering with greyscale on an alpha but others may find the opposite to be true.
Instructor
Original Poster
#15 Old 3rd Apr 2010 at 2:10 AM Last edited by ~Dee~ : 3rd Apr 2010 at 2:30 AM.
OM, just to be clear...if I change the value of the shine in the specular ( at the moment it stands at 20) and give it a black alpha, will I still get the shine I want? What number would give me the shine like in the pic's?
Or do I need to change the value and the alpha channel or just one of them?
Reason I need to be sure is...the workshop got one drawback, once I get the file into the game to check and then need to re-import into the workshop to change something, it won't accept any changes.
That means I've to start from the beginning...I still have my mesh and all the maps, but it is annoying.
The shine does not show in the pre-view of the workshop properly.

You can find more of my stuff here: http://www.blackpearlsims.com/downloads.php
Alchemist
#16 Old 3rd Apr 2010 at 2:45 AM Last edited by orangemittens : 3rd Apr 2010 at 2:59 AM.
The largest number for the shine in the mtlsrcs I've seen is 23. This was on the three tile wall mirror and was for the base of it...the wood part. I changed the specular for that item to completely black and had a shine on the mirror still. Most items have a shine of 20. And don't have a metallic look like the mirror did.

Is it possible to make a copy of your work before the final step of putting the object into the game to check it? If so, that's what I would do. I would copy the work as far as it could be copied. Then I would put a black specular and change the shine number to somewhere around 22 or 23 and look at that in the game. If I didn't like it I would make another copy of the work I had copied before and tinker a bit more to see how it came out.

I'm not understanding the part where you say you can't re-import. Can't you just overwrite your package, or whatever they wanna call it over there, like how you can do with the tool set from this site? If that's the way their tool operates I can understand why you don't want to have to try things out that might not look the best...it would be aggravating. And if that's how their tool works I'd call that stupid except, of course, that would be rude.
Me? Sarcastic? Never.
staff: administrator
#17 Old 3rd Apr 2010 at 3:11 AM
You can save the object in TSRW and then open again to continue working, you don't have to start over. While your project is open you can also export as a sims3package or a .package file. Believe me I made many changes when working on my guillotine!
Sockpuppet
#18 Old 3rd Apr 2010 at 4:33 AM
I do remember with sims 2 objects that when using the reflection(envcube) the basic textures would faint(it also kills the effect of the normalmap)
Its either one or the other.(depth or reflection)
Instructor
Original Poster
#19 Old 3rd Apr 2010 at 4:47 AM
OM, thank you so much I'll try it out and it is a good idea to make a copy, just in case.

HL, I feel so stupid I didn't know that, thank you.

Base, thanks for your input.

I'll let you guys know how it comes out, thanks everyone.

You can find more of my stuff here: http://www.blackpearlsims.com/downloads.php
One horse disagreer of the Apocalypse
#20 Old 3rd Apr 2010 at 9:40 AM
Orangemittens, you just edit same as you would for an overlay. You can set the alpha to any shade of grey or even draw a picture on it, and you can set the rgb to any colour or grey image. If you have a swirly coloured pattern in your specular on the rgb channel and set a swirly alpha, you will have an amazing mother of pearl effect (in theory)

"You can do refraction by raymarching through the depth buffer" (c. Reddeyfish 2017)
Alchemist
#21 Old 3rd Apr 2010 at 3:34 PM
To make an overlay I make an all-black dds and paste my overlay on that, merge all, and save it in PSP. Then I open that in Paint.NET and use the alpha space plugin to make the black part into an alpha. This is the only way I know to make something an alpha. For my specular I do the same thing except I don't paste the overlay part on.

I'm not sure how to apply the method I use to get the results you're talking about. I just really need to set aside some time and learn all about alphas once and for all I guess...I'm really alpha deficient. The main problem is that I've never been able to find a good (read idiot-proof) tutorial on how to create alphas with PSP or Paint.NET. I've seen one tutorial on alphas using PSP but I just cannot get my head around it.
Instructor
Original Poster
#22 Old 5th Apr 2010 at 12:53 AM
I've come to the conclusion that Inge is right, I think the pattern shows up faint because of the reflections. When I rotate the chair I can see the pattern more clearly on some parts.

I've tried different alphas in the specular: all black and the Phong value set at 23 gives me hardly any shine.
A dark grey alpha improves the shine, a medium grey improves it further but not enough to look metallic.
So now I've a 40% grey alpha and the Phong value set as the default of 20.

I think it looks slightly better, sorry forgot to take pic's.
Thanks you, I appreciate all the help you've given me.

You can find more of my stuff here: http://www.blackpearlsims.com/downloads.php
Alchemist
#23 Old 5th Apr 2010 at 1:07 AM
As I said, Inge is almost always right...and I only say almost always because nothing is 100%

I guess when it comes down to it the issue with EA games, and maybe all computer games (I don't know), is that when it comes to shiny there is generally a trade-off between shine and richness/depth of color. It seems the way EA makes a shine is by making things look like they have no color depth. In Sims 2 you could accomodate this by really maximizing the zing on your pattern png.

In Sims 3, with an all-black alpha and a shine of 23 items look too washed out for me to even consider wanting them. Adding more of EA's "shine" would make it even worse IMO. To me the richness of the texture and color matters far more than shine. That's true in this game, which robs me of control over the texture, just as it was in Sims 2 where I could really pump up the texture color to accomodate for taking away the shine. I just don't like wishy-washy texture.

But that's a subjective kinda thing. I just wish we had more control over the volume (if you will) of the color in the patterns that are applied to our objects. I don't like having to make the compromise between having a rich color and a glossy color if you know what I mean.
Instructor
Original Poster
#24 Old 5th Apr 2010 at 1:43 AM
I know exactly what you mean OM and I agree, I would prefer a rich colour too, but since I wanted a metallic looking object I can't have both by the looks of it.
I've to choose between one or the other and I'm undecided.
I saw this dining set in a magazine and it looked all shiny, a bit like lacquer but turned out more metallic and I liked the look.
It looks just fine if you only use plain colours, but once you start applying patterns...well it does look washed out.
So I'm undecided what to do, carry on or throw it out.

You can find more of my stuff here: http://www.blackpearlsims.com/downloads.php
Alchemist
#25 Old 5th Apr 2010 at 2:10 AM
I guess there must be a way to make something look lacquered in the game...you know...really deep color but also with high gloss. I just haven't figured it out yet. If someone has I hope they'll share...but I haven't seen it yet in any downloads for sharing.


And as for your object, I'd say if you think it looks great with solid colors then share it and provide the caveat that it looks great with solid colors and not so much with other kinds of patterns. Certainly, there are people who are gonna be wanting a metallic sheen on some items and are gonna be willing to stick with metal patterns for those items. I know I would.
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