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Lab Assistant
#851 Old 27th Dec 2014 at 2:07 PM
So i deleted my kingdom and am starting afresh because I don't think I set it up correctly and I also bit off more than I could chew.
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Inventor
#852 Old 28th Dec 2014 at 12:05 AM
Quote: Originally posted by meginmd
So i deleted my kingdom and am starting afresh because I don't think I set it up correctly and I also bit off more than I could chew.


I actually think I'm going to do the same, for the same reason. My original plan was to have five subhoods, and now I think that's a bit much.

The Darkdusk Legacy has ended. Read the whole thing!
The Nightmagic Legacy has ended. Read the whole thing!
Last of Her Kind has ended thanks to a dead computer.
Test Subject
#853 Old 3rd Jan 2015 at 6:14 PM
Quote: Originally posted by PSDuckie
I actually think I'm going to do the same, for the same reason. My original plan was to have five subhoods, and now I think that's a bit much.


Wow, five subhoods I play only one main neighborhood, that's enough for me (for now). Maybe someday a few families will wander off to other subhoods, who knows...
Lab Assistant
#854 Old 5th Jan 2015 at 6:19 PM
Another update posted. I feel like my story is slogging along. We're almost at summer though
Test Subject
#855 Old 6th Jan 2015 at 2:07 AM
Love the update Ari and I'm all too eager to get some simming done myself, which I should be able to soon after my exams.

Keep up the good work!
Lab Assistant
#856 Old 18th Jan 2015 at 6:31 PM
I started this challenge yesterday and boyyy is it fun!! I am currently working on my Royal and Noble family and after that will be merchants, peasants and serfs. I want to start with 3 familes and work my way up!
Inventor
#857 Old 3rd Feb 2015 at 11:43 PM
I've been thinking about my restarted game, and I thought up an interesting mechanic that I'd like to add to it. Basically, the kingdom had been conquered by an invading force, and the invaders-turned-rulers are making sure that their descendants won't go any lower than the upper bourgeois, and the conquered population won't go any higher than the lower gentry. I'll probably use custom eyes to determine which group a Sim belongs to.

The Darkdusk Legacy has ended. Read the whole thing!
The Nightmagic Legacy has ended. Read the whole thing!
Last of Her Kind has ended thanks to a dead computer.
Test Subject
#858 Old 5th Feb 2015 at 9:54 PM
@ PSDuckie , so they implemented some kind of caste system? That's such a cool idea.

I'm still in the process of world creation myself and recently recolored some Viking clothing to fit my Northern European Late Roman/Dark Ages Theme.

I plan to upload this to MTS soon for others who might find it useful, and I plan to expand upon this single recolor by creating a set of different historical pieces.
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Inventor
#859 Old 8th Feb 2015 at 1:34 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Wups
@ PSDuckie , so they implemented some kind of caste system? That's such a cool idea.


That's exactly what I was going for. I'm still trying to figure out a few details, but it will be interesting!

The Darkdusk Legacy has ended. Read the whole thing!
The Nightmagic Legacy has ended. Read the whole thing!
Last of Her Kind has ended thanks to a dead computer.
Instructor
Original Poster
#860 Old 13th Feb 2015 at 2:10 AM
Sounds like some cool ideas, everyone Also, Wups--thanks for sharing the recolors--they are gorgeous! PSDuckie, would you mind posting what you decide to do? I'd like to hear how it goes
Inventor
#861 Old 13th Feb 2015 at 10:31 PM
I have a question when it comes to creating my Sims. When you refer to "age spans" (example: the spouse of the monarch has to be within two age spans of the monarch) do you mean Maxis age spans or the age spans on the Health Meter in the challenge?

EDIT: I also am wondering what the age would be Health-Meter-wise for the initial sims and how to determine their health scores, etc.

The Darkdusk Legacy has ended. Read the whole thing!
The Nightmagic Legacy has ended. Read the whole thing!
Last of Her Kind has ended thanks to a dead computer.
Lab Assistant
#862 Old 14th Feb 2015 at 1:56 AM
So I have yet another question. I plan to re do this challenge at some point and set it in the modern day. Can I "Abolish" the fief system since it doesn't exist today and just create indentured servants, basically, that work for the Duke/Lord/Whatever?
Inventor
#863 Old 14th Feb 2015 at 4:39 AM
Quote: Originally posted by meginmd
So I have yet another question. I plan to re do this challenge at some point and set it in the modern day. Can I "Abolish" the fief system since it doesn't exist today and just create indentured servants, basically, that work for the Duke/Lord/Whatever?


Actually, mine is set in the modern day too, but the group that conquered the kingdom (they call themselves the Trueborn; I've created a bit of lore behind my town!) put the whole fief system in to ensure their dominance.

The Darkdusk Legacy has ended. Read the whole thing!
The Nightmagic Legacy has ended. Read the whole thing!
Last of Her Kind has ended thanks to a dead computer.
Instructor
#864 Old 16th Feb 2015 at 4:41 PM
Guess who has finished the first semester and is enjoying a well deserved break? Me, me, me! So, here I am! Again
And here's a new chapter about Alleken, her family and what happened after the war.

♕ Another secret ♔
“It is better to love wisely, no doubt, but to love foolishly is better than not to be able to love at all.”

Life after the war came to an end should have been simpler. Quieter. Uncomplicated. But, like most of the circumstances in my life, it was anything but the thing I longed most.
Read more...
Instructor
#865 Old 17th Feb 2015 at 9:40 PM
I am so, so close to finishing my neighborhood so it's ready to play, If all goes well, I will be able to finish it tomorrow and maybe play it over the weekend for the first time! *cheers* But, as always, I've stumbled onto a few questions while making my families and thinking about their background stories.

1. I have a trader family where the father was a master trader (owned 5 trading shops) (social rank 5) before the war. Also before the war, his daughter became a nun and went into the convent. During the war, trade came to a standstill and he lost 4 of his businesses. He's barely holding on to the one he has left. He's definitely dropped in rank from master trader to trader (social rank 4). Does his daughter keep her social rank (5), while the rest of her family goes down in rank?

2. Also to do with rank. How does the social rank of an apprentice work? He's born in a family anywhere from level 3 to level 5, then takes an apprenticeship with a master tradesman (lv 5). Does the apprentice keep the social rank he is born with, or does he lose that rank and become a working class laborer the moment he moves in with the master? And as an aside, can a journeyman have an apprentice or only a master?
Instructor
#866 Old 18th Feb 2015 at 11:09 AM
Hey there, samantha_kathy! ^^ I'm glad to hear that you will begin playing soon, because I love reading other people's stories.
Even if I'm no expert on this challenge (and I've been absent for so long XD ), I think I can come up with an answer for your first question. From what I understand, an unmarried girl has her father's rank (or her older brother's, if said father isn't alive anymore), so I think that she will go down in rank along with her family. But I'm not sure if this applies for nuns too, because I don't think that they can keep their family's rank once they've joined a convent (aren't nuns a special category or something like that? at least that's how things work in my game).
About the apprentice's rank, I think I'll let Meg answer that question, because I don't really play like that ^^"
Inventor
#867 Old 19th Feb 2015 at 11:50 PM
I would start playing and writing too, but I still can't create my families because I don't know some of the important information! :-(

The Darkdusk Legacy has ended. Read the whole thing!
The Nightmagic Legacy has ended. Read the whole thing!
Last of Her Kind has ended thanks to a dead computer.
Instructor
Original Poster
#868 Old 20th Feb 2015 at 2:36 AM
Lady Scarlet, I love your stories. They always get my heart. Poor dear Alleken! ... again losing her children. I always love her story so much. She is a beautiful, strong woman, totally my favorite character in your world. I know she will bond closely with this new daughter, and I am wondering what will happen to her! She must be important. :lovestruc

PSDuckie--let's see if I can get you some answers (sorry for the delay, been busy grading this past week!) If this doesn't answer all of your questions, please let me know! I haven't meant to be remiss, just busy lately.
Quote:
I have a question when it comes to creating my Sims. When you refer to "age spans" (example: the spouse of the monarch has to be within two age spans of the monarch) do you mean Maxis age spans or the age spans on the Health Meter in the challenge? EDIT: I also am wondering what the age would be Health-Meter-wise for the initial sims and how to determine their health scores, etc.


In that case, creating sims for world creation, it is Maxis age spans. What I generally do for CAS created sims is just calculate an age for them and find their THS--so if the sim is 35, then I go through the health meter rolls till I find the THS. I will say, however, that unless I have a specific story in mind, I don't generally make CAS created sims have a THS in the poor or terrible range because I don't like killing sims I just created.

Quote:
So I have yet another question. I plan to re do this challenge at some point and set it in the modern day. Can I "Abolish" the fief system since it doesn't exist today and just create indentured servants, basically, that work for the Duke/Lord/Whatever?


Meginmd, the fief system is integral to the Warwickshire system, since the challenge actually involves taking a family clan from level 1 to level 10. Since you are planning a modern day version, you might rework some of the upper class titles to reflect modern day institutions--i.e. instead of a baron, maybe a mayor? I think you'd have to devise your own system there, but the idea behind Warwickshire is the class system: it is the most integral part of the challenge.

Samantha_Kathy, Lady Scarlet has it right on your first question--the nun would keep her father's class rank and title (if he has one), so if his title goes down, hers will too. The only special thing about cloisters is that a person's rank will rise to level 3 if their starting rank is 1 or 2 when they enter. That said, the cloister is a place where a sim's class can rise, because there they can attain a higher education and take advantage of opportunities that the higher education affords--for example, moving from cloister to clergy, which has the potential to elevate class rank with promotions, and so forth. There's another longer discussion of the clergy/cloister and class rank in post #758.

Quote:
2. Also to do with rank. How does the social rank of an apprentice work? He's born in a family anywhere from level 3 to level 5, then takes an apprenticeship with a master tradesman (lv 5). Does the apprentice keep the social rank he is born with, or does he lose that rank and become a working class laborer the moment he moves in with the master? And as an aside, can a journeyman have an apprentice or only a master?


Apprentices keep their class rank they were born with. Assuming that the apprentice who is say, a level 4, stands to inherit his father's estate, then yes he would keep his class rank at level 4. A working class laborer is someone born into the bourgeoisie who does not stand to inherit any owned businesses. For example, the head of household does not own a business, but was born into the bourgeoisie--this person is a working class laborer. Everyone in the family hold the same rank they were born with--so a father with level 4 rank will confer that same rank on every child born into the family, regardless of who inherits what. This means that as long as the head of household owns at least one business, the entire family will be at level 4 for the entire time that the head of household is alive. When he dies, the business will pass on to the eldest son, who will become the head of household. At this point, younger brothers would need to open a business of their own to keep their level 4 rank, unless the eldest brother has no living sons, and they are in the line of succession to inherit the family business. It works the same way as the line of succession for royalty. Apprentices may secure an apprenticeship with a merchant of a lesser rank than their own--so a son from a level 5 merchant may secure an apprenticeship with a level 3 merchant. Class rank does not necessarily signify expertise in a craft.

As to journeymen, they may not take new apprentices: see "Learn a Trade" under "Trades and Employment."

Hope this helps, guys!
Instructor
#869 Old 21st Feb 2015 at 4:02 PM
Quote: Originally posted by M3g7e

Apprentices keep their class rank they were born with. Assuming that the apprentice who is say, a level 4, stands to inherit his father's estate, then yes he would keep his class rank at level 4. A working class laborer is someone born into the bourgeoisie who does not stand to inherit any owned businesses. For example, the head of household does not own a business, but was born into the bourgeoisie--this person is a working class laborer. Everyone in the family hold the same rank they were born with--so a father with level 4 rank will confer that same rank on every child born into the family, regardless of who inherits what. This means that as long as the head of household owns at least one business, the entire family will be at level 4 for the entire time that the head of household is alive. When he dies, the business will pass on to the eldest son, who will become the head of household. At this point, younger brothers would need to open a business of their own to keep their level 4 rank, unless the eldest brother has no living sons, and they are in the line of succession to inherit the family business. It works the same way as the line of succession for royalty. Apprentices may secure an apprenticeship with a merchant of a lesser rank than their own--so a son from a level 5 merchant may secure an apprenticeship with a level 3 merchant. Class rank does not necessarily signify expertise in a craft.

As to journeymen, they may not take new apprentices: see "Learn a Trade" under "Trades and Employment."

Hope this helps, guys!


Okay, so the answer to my first question about the nun was clear. The second answer is clear in and of itself, but I have some follow-up questions. You said that class rank doesn't necessarily signify expertise in craft. But to become a craftsman, you must have a home business at level 5 or 2 community lots, and a master craftsman you must have 5 businesses. Now, I get that these things elevate you in rank (if you don't have the appropriate rank yet). But then, a journeyman who can never open up his own business and continues to work in the shop of his boss, he will never become a master of his craft? Because while it does say in the Learn a Trade chapter that from Aprrentice to Master takes ten to fifteen years, not all my Journeymen will get their own shop (some might not be able to afford it, others might not get one because there's just no demand for another candle shop in a small hamlet).

On a related note, about the head of the household giving his family members their rank - that only counts for those living in his household, right? Say, a Master Craftsman (lv 5) has two sons (also lv 5). Both have learned their father's craft and work in their father's businesses. If the youngest son moves out of his father's home to start his own family, does he retain that level 5 until his father dies and his brother takes over the business (with sons who will inherit), or does he become a level 3 working class laborer because he's working in his father's business but is his own head of household? (And I sincerely hope that made sense )
Lab Assistant
#870 Old 21st Feb 2015 at 6:08 PM
Okay, so I rolled to set up my fiefs and didn't roll a duchy, but if I'm reading the rules right, that doesn't matter; the whole main hood is a Duchy, right?
The first thing I rolled was a Barony; did I set this up right? The house to the top left is the home of the Baron; the three small houses are the fiefs working his land. The next thing I rolled was a Viscounty; do I set it up the same way?
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Lab Assistant
#872 Old 21st Feb 2015 at 7:05 PM
If by subhoods you mean Bluewater Village, the universities, and and all that, my PC does just fine handling it.
Inventor
#874 Old 21st Feb 2015 at 7:10 PM
One more question: when talking about the Maxis agespans for character creation, does YA count? (Example: monarch's spouse must be within two agespans of the monarch) I haven't built a Uni subhood yet.

The Darkdusk Legacy has ended. Read the whole thing!
The Nightmagic Legacy has ended. Read the whole thing!
Last of Her Kind has ended thanks to a dead computer.
Instructor
Original Poster
#875 Old 21st Feb 2015 at 8:07 PM
Quote: Originally posted by samantha_kathy
But then, a journeyman who can never open up his own business and continues to work in the shop of his boss, he will never become a master of his craft? Because while it does say in the Learn a Trade chapter that from Aprrentice to Master takes ten to fifteen years, not all my Journeymen will get their own shop (some might not be able to afford it, others might not get one because there's just no demand for another candle shop in a small hamlet).


A journeyman is someone who has completed an apprenticeship and has all of the qualifications of the trade; however, he has not been admitted to a guild as a "master." The way that the rules are currently composed, a journeyman may become a master when he opens his own shop. Now, this may be a case where you decide to do something slightly different in your game--in medieval times, a journeyman traveled for a period of years and became a master when he had completed a master work: maybe there is some way to devise a system for yourself that complies more with this historic definition. I did not, for the sake of the rules, want to define what a "master" work was for each of the trades independently. That is something I would rather have a simple blanket rule for, and/or leave the details up to individual players to decide. It does make sense to me, however, that there were people who worked for many years under the master of a shop and never became masters in their own right--it caused a lot of resentment, as you can well imagine. So the choice is yours here.

Quote: Originally posted by samantha_kathy
On a related note, about the head of the household giving his family members their rank - that only counts for those living in his household, right? Say, a Master Craftsman (lv 5) has two sons (also lv 5). Both have learned their father's craft and work in their father's businesses. If the youngest son moves out of his father's home to start his own family, does he retain that level 5 until his father dies and his brother takes over the business (with sons who will inherit), or does he become a level 3 working class laborer because he's working in his father's business but is his own head of household? (And I sincerely hope that made sense )


I think that it makes sense to decide how/why these nuances are important to your game. If you are playing the challenge as a strict challenge and not simply incorporating aspects into a playstyle, then the answer is more rigid and would depend upon how hard you want to make it for yourself. If, however, you're just using the game as a play style, it falls under the "why worry about it" category for me. Warwickshire was never meant to give hard/fast "rules" that players are "required" to follow to a 'T'--it is following the spirit of a question and allowing players to set up a system that may be indifferent to sims' needs or individual merits. So, here's what I would say to the questions you have here: the whole thing is a question of inheritance. Even if that youngest brother is last in line to inherit, he is still in the line of inheritance--he may have an older brother with three sons, all set and ready to take over at a moment's notice, but if a flood sweeps in and carries them all off, he's in like flynn, as it were Just because he becomes his own head of household does not instantly mean that he has lost his inheritance or his family name and birthright. Now, I suppose it is possible to disown a son, and if that were to happen he would keep his class (bourgeois) but not his rank (level 5): in that case, he would go down to level 3. As to my earlier reply, it again depends upon how you interpret the rules--it might make sense to require those younger sons who seem to be supplanted by their brother's sons to open their own businesses to retain their birth rank, which is why I said what I did above in Post #868. However, by no means would I ever say that even that is a hard/fast "rule" that you "have" to follow. I just don't think that it makes sense to have every younger son immediately fall to a level 3 when his brother takes over--it would be impossible for every son to open five businesses, and such a system would mean that there was no reason to ever have more than one son--or it would result in a lot of murder and mayhem. (If that's your thing, might get interesting ... lol) But, it isn't in the spirit of the way the rules were originally conceived, so there's that. The rule of thumb should be that it is just as difficult to lose one's class rank as to increase it--the system favors inertia.

As to the question about age spans: the age spans that are considered are given in Table 2 Vital Statistics--it does not include young adult, so that the rolls correspond to a d6 roll. The purpose is simply to make impossible to marry an elder to a child, which--really why would you want to? i.e. no more than 2 age spans just literally means that you shouldn't be arranging betrothals between infants and adolescents, toddlers and adults, children and elders ... that's really all there is to it. Of course, it ya really wanted to ... who's gonna stop you?

Quote: Originally posted by meginmd
Okay, so I rolled to set up my fiefs and didn't roll a duchy, but if I'm reading the rules right, that doesn't matter; the whole main hood is a Duchy, right?
The first thing I rolled was a Barony; did I set this up right? The house to the top left is the home of the Baron; the three small houses are the fiefs working his land. The next thing I rolled was a Viscounty; do I set it up the same way?


Duchies are the size of a subnh; however, that does not tacitly imply that all subnh's are by default duchies. This might just be a lonely barony that is not situated within any larger fief. For there to be a duchy here, there would need to be a fief with a fief-holding lord to occupy it. As to the set up, sure--looks fine to me. Your barony can be situated inside the viscounty if you like, or the two can be contiguous: it's up to you. Both would fit in the same subnh, if you wanted it that way. Whatever works.
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