Hi there! You are currently browsing as a guest. Why not create an account? Then you get less ads, can thank creators, post feedback, keep a list of your favourites, and more!
Lab Assistant
Original Poster
#1 Old 27th Mar 2013 at 7:58 PM
Default Can't get rid of seam on transparent top mesh
I need help with my transparent clothing mesh. It is a top for YAF and I made the lower part transparent.
I used TSRW, Milkshape, Blender and the Meshing Toolkit to create it.
For the skin parts, I used a nude top mesh. All visible skin is in a separate group (group 0). This group has the simskin shader.
The other group (group 1) is the one with the transparency, it has the shader 0xA7B368FB assigned to it. The transparency is properly set in the alpha channel of the multiplier.
Everything works fine, except that I can't get rid of the seam at the waist in group 0.

Picture is in the attachment.


Here's what I tried:
1) Fixed all seams with demon's align normals and vertices before saving as wso
Exported the mesh as geom via TSRW S3PE plugin and fixed the tangents using the Mesh Toolkit using -> geom tools -> "Fix tangents". Replaced the geom with the fixed one and imported it back into TSRW.
Result: Seam still there
2) Used a geom mesh for the skin part, fixed tangents on it and then converted the geom into a wso, also using mesh toolkit.
Result: Seam still there.
3) Fixed tangents again by using export to S3PE and the meshing toolkit geom mesh. Seam was still there.
4) Tried the "replace values" function from the mesh toolkit and tried to fix tangents and bones.
Result: Still didn't work.


I have no idea why the tangent fix isn't working here. Usually it works like a charm when using it on bottoms.
Does anyone know something else I could try?
Screenshots
Advertisement
Née whiterider
retired moderator
#2 Old 27th Mar 2013 at 8:13 PM
That looks like a mesh gap. Does it work with other trousers? Have you tried importing a nude bottom and using it as a guide, to snap the bottom row of top vertices into the same spot as the top row of bottom vertices, if that makes some kind of sense?

What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact.
Lab Assistant
Original Poster
#3 Old 27th Mar 2013 at 8:45 PM
Quote: Originally posted by whiterider
That looks like a mesh gap. Does it work with other trousers? Have you tried importing a nude bottom and using it as a guide, to snap the bottom row of top vertices into the same spot as the top row of bottom vertices, if that makes some kind of sense?

Yeah, I tried it with different trousers by EA, the seams show on everything
And I just tried using a nude bottom as a guide. I snapped the bottom row of vertices to the top roow of a nude geom mesh and exported as .wso again. But after importing into tsrw, the seam was visible again. I also fixed the tangents again - and the line is still visible ingame
Sockpuppet
#4 Old 28th Mar 2013 at 12:15 AM
Check the boneweights on the vertice on that particular row.
Not sure if that is a seam were you attached 2 parts but if so then there might be a mismatch between the boneassignements(causing the gap)
Ms. Byte (Deceased)
#5 Old 28th Mar 2013 at 10:57 AM
That's almost certainly a mismatch of bone assignments. As I recall both the GEOM and WSO exporters in Milkshape round the bone numbers on export, causing this effect in female tops. You need to match the bone assignments on the final mesh, NOT in Milkshape, but using the Toolkit Bone Tools / Match Bones at Seams function with an untouched EA nude bottom as reference.

Please do not PM me with mod, tutorial, or general modding questions or problems; post them in the thread for the mod or tutorial or post them in the appropriate forum.

Visit my blogs for other Sims content:
Online Sims - general mods for Sims 3
Offline Sims - adult mods for Sims 3 and Sims 4
Lab Assistant
Original Poster
#6 Old 29th Mar 2013 at 4:26 PM
Thank you all for the replies!
I tried aligning the bones with the MeshingToolkit. I tried it on WSO, on geom, with different geom reference meshes, with tangent fix, without, morphed, unmorphed... sometimes the morphs exploded afterwards, sometimes not but the seam was always still there. I double-checked if I matched the vertices and normals correctly a hundred times. Maybe I'm missing someting, I don't know. If anyone wants to have a look at the files: I put them in the attachment.

The attached files are the blouse mesh with the transparency (which is fine) and the skin group with the mismatch problem, already with bones matched (took the .wso into the Meshing Toolkit and matched it to the af geom nude bottom brief mesh). I still have problems with it
Attached files:
File Type: zip  Transparent Blouse with seams issue.zip (454.6 KB, 13 downloads) - View custom content
Ms. Byte (Deceased)
#7 Old 30th Mar 2013 at 12:19 AM
I cloned the female nude top with TSRW and imported the skin lod1 wso by itself - I don't know of any tops with two meshparts offhand and didn't take the time to search. I tried letting TSRW recalculate, tried having it not recalculate, and tried running the wso through the bone seam match tool in Toolkit again and importing. As you can see, all my trials have no gap at the waist, and the morphs worked fine for all of them.

Possibly something is going on in the process of combining the two meshparts. Could you please explain exactly how you're constructing your final package? And/or upload it?
Screenshots

Please do not PM me with mod, tutorial, or general modding questions or problems; post them in the thread for the mod or tutorial or post them in the appropriate forum.

Visit my blogs for other Sims content:
Online Sims - general mods for Sims 3
Offline Sims - adult mods for Sims 3 and Sims 4
Lab Assistant
Original Poster
#8 Old 30th Mar 2013 at 11:40 AM
Quote: Originally posted by CmarNYC
all my trials have no gap at the waist, and the morphs worked fine for all of them.

Possibly something is going on in the process of combining the two meshparts. Could you please explain exactly how you're constructing your final package? And/or upload it?


This is really strange. This got me thinking it might be the cloned mesh project itself. I couldn't get the newest version of TSRW to change the shader so I cloned an old project where I already used the transparency shader (a fullbody outfit). I changed the category to upper body and imported the blouse mesh into the transparent shader and the skin part into the other group via the import .wso function. I don't let TSRW recalculate my meshes on import.

Unfortunately, I don't have another project with the transparent shader enabled so I can't try it on another project - and I don't know why Workshop doesn't accept the geom with the changed shader anymore.

My original project that I cloned was a basegame dress with two groups - I set it to upper body only and wanted to change the shader of one group to enable the transparency. I exported the mesh to S3PE using the "export so s3pe" plugin and changed the shader, saved it and closed s3pe, but TSRW gave an error saying that the shader can't be changed.

I then cloned my project that already had the transparency shader - I used it for a transparent swimsuit. The mesh I had cloned back then was afBodyCoatTrench. The swimsuit worked fine, no problems.


I always export the final mesh as a sims3pack directly from TSRW and then use #aWT's s3ce tool to extract the package. I only use packages in my game and this is what I tested with, too.


Maybe the error lies with the original projects being full body outfits?
I think I should start looking for another project to clone, I don't know any top meshes that are basegame compatible and have two groups, hopefully there is one.

You can also have a look at the entire .wrk project if that helps.
Thank you so much for looking into it, I really appreciate your help.
Attached files:
File Type: zip  Transparent Blouse by Simlicious wrk.zip (428.7 KB, 10 downloads) - View custom content
Description: workshop file
Ms. Byte (Deceased)
#9 Old 30th Mar 2013 at 2:36 PM
I'm even more mystified... I opened your project in TSRW and exported a .package, both by doing Edit/Project Contents and then Export, and by exporting to a .sims3pack and extracting the package with s3ce. In both cases there is no gap. I only looked in CAS, not in game. I'm attaching the .package.

So, um, no idea what's going on!

Edit: I used s3ce by MarkJS, here on MTS. Don't know if aWT made another version or just has it hosted elsewhere. And I'm using TSRW V2.0.72.0. BTW, TSRW now correctly calculates the mesh tangents when you import a WSO. (Even if you say no to recalculate - there are no mesh tangents in a wso so they have to be calculated.)
Screenshots
Attached files:
File Type: zip  TransBlouse.zip (449.9 KB, 17 downloads) - View custom content

Please do not PM me with mod, tutorial, or general modding questions or problems; post them in the thread for the mod or tutorial or post them in the appropriate forum.

Visit my blogs for other Sims content:
Online Sims - general mods for Sims 3
Offline Sims - adult mods for Sims 3 and Sims 4
Lab Assistant
Original Poster
#10 Old 31st Mar 2013 at 3:59 PM Last edited by Simlicious : 1st Apr 2013 at 2:48 PM.
Quote: Originally posted by CmarNYC
I'm even more mystified... I opened your project in TSRW and exported a .package, both by doing Edit/Project Contents and then Export, and by exporting to a .sims3pack and extracting the package with s3ce. In both cases there is no gap. I only looked in CAS, not in game. I'm attaching the .package.

So, um, no idea what's going on!

Edit: I used s3ce by MarkJS, here on MTS. Don't know if aWT made another version or just has it hosted elsewhere. And I'm using TSRW V2.0.72.0. BTW, TSRW now correctly calculates the mesh tangents when you import a WSO. (Even if you say no to recalculate - there are no mesh tangents in a wso so they have to be calculated.)


Ah, the recalculation thing is interesting. Do you know what exactly gets calculated, on top of the tangents, if one clicks Yes on import of the .wso? I tried it a few times but it mostly gave me mismatched seams, so I didn't use it further (and it says to be careful to use it on CAS parts as well).

It is so strange that your exported package doesn't produce the gap. I installed your package and it doesn't have a gap in my game, either!

I downloaded s3ce from Mark's blog, but it should be the same version as hosted on MTS. I use it on all my creations and never had problems. I'm using version 1.3 of the MeshToolkit and version 2.0.72 of TSRW, as well as S3PE version 12-1225-1206. So all tools are up-to-date. I will reinstall the tools, just to make sure it isn't something corrupted in the files somewhere. I will watch out to see if that issue returns on other projects. Hopefully it was just a one-time exception!

I'll try and import the package you sent as a new project and see if I can use that without trouble.
Thank you very much for testing again!


Edit:
It worked! I made a new project from the package file and that did the trick.
I am suspecting an error on one of my models I use to test clothing on. I have a savegame where I have the models standing, ready to be dressed and photographed and I then choose the clothing by editing the sims in CAS. I put the blouse on different sims and noticed only one had a seam (that was the one I always used to test!) and another one didn't, even though both sims wore EA bottoms. After I sent the Sim who had the seam back in CAS (for the second time) and made changes to the preset, the seam was gone. It is really strange. Anyways, it seems to work now and I won't touch a thing now in case I mess it up again *lol*
I will make sure to test my things on multiple sims from now on and maybe I can avoid that problem this way.
Screenshots
Test Subject
#11 Old 22nd Feb 2016 at 1:18 PM
Sorry for butting in, I came across the post and thought it might be of some help. I not really sure though. I am working on a sweater I frankenmeshed together with two different items. It's obvious where the two parts interconnect. I'm curious if any of the suggestions in this post might solve my problem. (PS. the triangle cut out at the bottom of the top is intentional) Thanks :O)
Screenshots
Virtual gardener
staff: administrator
#12 Old 23rd Feb 2016 at 1:18 PM
Quote: Originally posted by brysonjr
Sorry for butting in, I came across the post and thought it might be of some help. I not really sure though. I am working on a sweater I frankenmeshed together with two different items. It's obvious where the two parts interconnect. I'm curious if any of the suggestions in this post might solve my problem. (PS. the triangle cut out at the bottom of the top is intentional) Thanks :O)


It seems to be a UV map issue. With that I mean that your Texture doesn't fit the uv-map of these 2 meshes you were talking about. You could import your texture into Milkshape and Blender and see if it works with the UV-map.

Blender uv map tutorials: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2-...Go7LAk3mhfxbMhd

Milkshape Uv-map tutorials: http://modthesims.info/t/135136
Test Subject
#13 Old 9th Apr 2016 at 11:12 AM Last edited by brysonjr : 9th Apr 2016 at 11:48 AM.
Quote: Originally posted by Greenplumbbob
It seems to be a UV map issue. With that I mean that your Texture doesn't fit the uv-map of these 2 meshes you were talking about. You could import your texture into Milkshape and Blender and see if it works with the UV-map.

Blender uv map tutorials: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2-...Go7LAk3mhfxbMhd

Milkshape Uv-map tutorials: http://modthesims.info/t/135136


Thank you so much for your reply. I've finally had some time to sit down and play with this thing, but I've run into a problem. I've read through both tutorials and decided to give Blender a shot. I downloaded the 2.77 version and the plugins and rigs found here: https://sims3cliptool.wordpress.com/download/
I followed the install instructions as found here: http://sims4studio.com/thread/1686/...blender-package
However, whenever I actually attempt to import the CAS item using the S3PY Rig Tools I get the following error (pictured). I read on the Blender website that downloading props with the 2.74 version has been a problem. Do you think the same is true for Blender 2.77 or have a overlooked something? Thanks again for all your help.
Screenshots
Virtual gardener
staff: administrator
#14 Old 9th Apr 2016 at 2:20 PM
these rigs are actually meant for pose making. It's not really compatible with the latest Blender versions, so are most blender plugins for the sims 3, even TSRW's plugins. It's helpfyl though if you want to check if the bones are all right with the sims, so there is not clipping,or not moving with the sim at all, or maybe some other issues. Also, this tutorial explains how to get it in Blender so you can convert it to the sims 4 eventually.

I'm not sure what you're trying with the rigs though, because these aren't really useful when it comes to creating CAS stuff. If you were looking for sims 3 bodies, i'd recommend using these: http://modthesims.info/t/411795
Test Subject
#15 Old 9th Apr 2016 at 2:46 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Greenplumbbob
these rigs are actually meant for pose making. It's not really compatible with the latest Blender versions, so are most blender plugins for the sims 3, even TSRW's plugins. It's helpfyl though if you want to check if the bones are all right with the sims, so there is not clipping,or not moving with the sim at all, or maybe some other issues. Also, this tutorial explains how to get it in Blender so you can convert it to the sims 4 eventually.

I'm not sure what you're trying with the rigs though, because these aren't really useful when it comes to creating CAS stuff. If you were looking for sims 3 bodies, i'd recommend using these: http://modthesims.info/t/411795


LOL well, I just feel silly. I thought I needed them as for clothes making and the like. Thanks for the link. I will try it out. ^.^
Test Subject
#16 Old 14th Jun 2016 at 3:39 PM
I just wanted to thank you for all your help. I have successfully edited the UV Map, so it doesn't "overlap" anymore. The texture is still a mess; it'll need a bit of work before it's finished, but I'm on my way.
Screenshots
Virtual gardener
staff: administrator
#17 Old 14th Jun 2016 at 4:33 PM
Quote: Originally posted by brysonjr
I just wanted to thank you for all your help. I have successfully edited the UV Map, so it doesn't "overlap" anymore. The texture is still a mess; it'll need a bit of work before it's finished, but I'm on my way.


Oh that looks great already! If you need anything else to know, let me know! ^-^
Test Subject
#18 Old 16th Jun 2016 at 1:46 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Greenplumbbob
Oh that looks great already! If you need anything else to know, let me know! ^-^

Actually, I was wondering....Am I supposed to change the UV for all 3 lods or only lod1? Also, after I export the new GEOM lod file from Milkshape, do I simply replace the the old GEOM lod with the new in the package editor, or do I have to go in and recreate the new BGEOs, etc? I'm asking this because when I open the package in TSRW I get an error saying, "Index was outside the bounds of array." Also the UV map I extracted using LithUnwrap looks really different and strange from the one in Milkshape's Texture Coordinate Editor. I haven't tested the top in the game yet, so I'm not sure what to expect. Do you have any insight?

Thanks again for all your help.
:D
Screenshots
Virtual gardener
staff: administrator
#19 Old 16th Jun 2016 at 8:20 PM
Hmm usually what Milkshape tells you how the UV map looks like, it's usually how it works. But I'm not sure if this UV map program you use actually has a 'save uv map with mesh' kind of option because I've only used LithUnwrap for 2 times for making a proper uv map for a round mesh.

The LODS are Level of details, which means that when you zoom out and in, the sim will look a bit less detailed than if you would zoom in. (Just in case you didn't know) So in the mesh tab in TSRW you're probably in the 'high level of detail' one, and you can expand that to switch to 'low level of detail' and I think 'medium level of detail' was in there too. Just lower the polycount with the Directxtool and there you go!
If you're still not sure how they work, here you go!: https://youtu.be/KAfw3YGSPF4?t=20m54s

The "Index was outside the bounds of array." error is usually if you didn't rename your mesh in Milkshape from something like 'default' to 'group_base' also, adding morphs can be done in Meshtoolkit.
Test Subject
#20 Old 17th Jun 2016 at 11:03 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Greenplumbbob
Hmm usually what Milkshape tells you how the UV map looks like, it's usually how it works. But I'm not sure if this UV map program you use actually has a 'save uv map with mesh' kind of option because I've only used LithUnwrap for 2 times for making a proper uv map for a round mesh.

The LODS are Level of details, which means that when you zoom out and in, the sim will look a bit less detailed than if you would zoom in. (Just in case you didn't know) So in the mesh tab in TSRW you're probably in the 'high level of detail' one, and you can expand that to switch to 'low level of detail' and I think 'medium level of detail' was in there too. Just lower the polycount with the Directxtool and there you go!
If you're still not sure how they work, here you go!: https://youtu.be/KAfw3YGSPF4?t=20m54s

The "Index was outside the bounds of array." error is usually if you didn't rename your mesh in Milkshape from something like 'default' to 'group_base' also, adding morphs can be done in Meshtoolkit.

Thanks for you reply. ^.^ I'm familiar with the LODS and what they are, I'm just really a nub about UV Maps lol.

I didn't use LithUnwrap to edit my UV map at all. I did that with Milkshape. I used LithUnwrap to extract the UV, so I could use it as a guide when retexturing the multiplier and mask later. (That's when I discovered the strange UV map.) I don't even know how to extract the UV with milkshape, if that's possible.

I did previously create the morphs for the package. I just don't know if I am supposed to go in and recreate the new morphs with MeshToolKit after editing the UV or not.

I did go back into Milkshape and renamed the mesh, change the UV map again, and then exported the altered GEOMlod1 file. Unfortunately, I still got the error, "Index was outside the bounds of array." I'm kind of stumped on that.
Virtual gardener
staff: administrator
#21 Old 17th Jun 2016 at 2:18 PM
Well since your previous morphs do carry the UV map that weren't correctly, I suppose you should indeed do the morphs again. if the base mesh is okay with you, then I should recreate the morphs too.
Exporting a UV map is possible in Blender. And it's easy! Usually if your UV map looks okay in Blender, it will look okay in Milkshape too and I suppose in game as well.

The tutorial I sent you is actually a conversion tutorial but it does include the basic progress from your own mesh to in-game, so it's okay to skip a part where I export meshes from a game, to fitting the body and the texturing. The milkshape TSRW part is actually where it basically starts when it comes to the basics of creating proper clothing in the sims 3.

Also, I made a tutorial here that included how to export a UV map the easy way and how to export it: http://modthesims.info/showthread.p...033#post5033033
Though in your case, you want to select the entire mesh, not just a small part of the mesh like instructed in that tutorial. ^-^
Test Subject
#22 Old 18th Jun 2016 at 2:18 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Greenplumbbob
Well since your previous morphs do carry the UV map that weren't correctly, I suppose you should indeed do the morphs again. if the base mesh is okay with you, then I should recreate the morphs too.
Exporting a UV map is possible in Blender. And it's easy! Usually if your UV map looks okay in Blender, it will look okay in Milkshape too and I suppose in game as well.

The tutorial I sent you is actually a conversion tutorial but it does include the basic progress from your own mesh to in-game, so it's okay to skip a part where I export meshes from a game, to fitting the body and the texturing. The milkshape TSRW part is actually where it basically starts when it comes to the basics of creating proper clothing in the sims 3.

Also, I made a tutorial here that included how to export a UV map the easy way and how to export it: http://modthesims.info/showthread.p...033#post5033033
Though in your case, you want to select the entire mesh, not just a small part of the mesh like instructed in that tutorial. ^-^


OKay! ^0^ I'll try it out and see how it goes.
Test Subject
#23 Old 23rd Aug 2016 at 4:20 AM
Quote: Originally posted by brysonjr
OKay! ^0^ I'll try it out and see how it goes.

Hooray! I finally figured out the top! I ended up re-doing things, and it was much simpler. You've given me lots of great info that I KNOW I will use later on, so thanks again so much! You've been amazing.
Screenshots
Attached files:
File Type: zip  OUAS_af_MultiPatternedSweater.zip (4.16 MB, 4 downloads) - View custom content
Virtual gardener
staff: administrator
#24 Old 23rd Aug 2016 at 9:57 AM
Back to top