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Test Subject
#51 Old 19th May 2011 at 3:06 PM
My sims' universed is pretty much a-gendered, but it's still binary. Instead of having a feminine/masculine status, they have a dominant/submissive status. The dominants tend to have the most important, decision-making jobs, they're providers if you will, while submissives are carers. Both males and females wear make-up (or long hair) and I try to find skirts and dresses for my males to wear.
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Forum Resident
#52 Old 21st May 2011 at 7:21 AM
I play a fairly clean game, bias wise. Marriage, pregnancy, name changes job roles -- gender has no influence on these. I'd go so far as to say that there are no gender roles in my game, period. Every kid and teenager learns basic cooking and mechanical skills, and I let whoever is at hand do the work. I am more likely to give a girl pink clothing, but pink isn't a color I employ much and when I do, it's because I've determined that THIS particular sim likes pink. I've declared other sims to like purple, white, or orange. The same goes for same-sex couples: there are no ROLES.

As far as Greek houses go: I have three in my uni town. One is Tri-Var, girls only: one is Ingersoll House, a mixed-sex house for 'superior' Sims (a mix of snobs and people who take life Very Seriously), and Uresha Osha Cham. UOC used to be men only, and the neighborhood party house, but in an effort to compete with Ingersoll House, they allow in both girls and guys. Tri-Var is actually a locked house: visitors are only allowed in at my invitation (read: I drop them inside the house with move_objects on, or they teleport in via a crystal ball). Hundreds of years ago, this was done to maintain the "young ladies' reputation", but they keep the policy because they like their privacy.

That said, I suppose I play to a few gender codes as far as clothing and make-up go. I like putting some of my sim-women in dresses, and long hair is a sign of wealth in my Pleasantview. (The master of Goth House, Leia Goth, has great long dreadlocks that reach down to her rear end). I'm also not used to seeing guys in make-up, so that is rare for me...except for a red dot on the foreheads of virgins. All of my Pleasantview sims get that when they grow into teenagers. I started doing that because I grew tired of ACR turning all of my teenagers into little sex machines. The dot helps me keep track of who's done it and who hasn't.
Instructor
#53 Old 23rd May 2011 at 7:31 AM
The male sims almost never get makeup.

And I would probably never put one of them in a pink room/house.

But then I believe I have never had a female sim in a pink room(not sure)/house(absolutely sure) either. Not too fond of pink. My mother thought I looked best in pink, blue or red - so I got an aversion to those colours and it has so far (im soon 40) only worn off from the red and blue. Pink..still an "uhm naa dont think so" feel to it.

The whole issue (is that the word?) for some of you about sim proposals and last name and stuff is probably a culture thing.
To me the proposal look absolutely ridiculus in any case, no matter wich sim it is that perform it. Pathetic, grotesque, horrible.
Thats why I dont have any pictures of proposals at all. I just get it over and done with and look at something else.

And last names is just... I keep the name that shows in neighbourhood view. That way I will not get annoyed about that at least.
Scholar
#54 Old 23rd May 2011 at 5:27 PM
HUSBAND GET BACK IN THE KITCHEN AND MAKE ME A BLOODY SANDWICH!

Yup you herd me, but usually it's the Sim that annoys me most in the family that I treat like a sterotypical woman role.

Disclaimer: I am just being a goof ball, please ignore me if offended.
Lab Assistant
#55 Old 23rd May 2011 at 9:22 PM
Quote: Originally posted by DrowningFishy
HUSBAND GET BACK IN THE KITCHEN AND MAKE ME A BLOODY SANDWICH!

Yup you herd me, but usually it's the Sim that annoys me most in the family that I treat like a sterotypical woman role.


EXACTLY. It's like "Ok, YOU are the annoying one. YOU make the family dinner and then YOU clean the toilets." XDD
Inventor
#56 Old 23rd May 2011 at 11:25 PM
I admit that annoying sims in each household are the ones that I pick on to do most of the chores and are often up late at night - with their energy very low before they go to bed. I don't like the pre-made sims in Pleasantview, so it is hard to pick the one that annoys me the most to get assigned all the chores.
Test Subject
#57 Old 7th Jun 2011 at 1:08 AM
I realize this is a Sims2 discussion, but I found my way here through trial and error, and I can't spend another hour trying to find a similar discussion for Sims3

All the time I've spent playing Sims of any numerical number in the ending, I know without a doubt I play more Female Sims. I create more CAS Female Sims. I am playing, right now, a family from CAS. Two sisters living together. The youngest had a son out of wedlock. The father of said son has a different Girl Friend which is not my Sim. The eldest sister has the trait of Commitment issues. Which I plan on using to my advantage. She will only have children and not get the want of getting married. I rarely play families with male Sims in them. When I do, the female usually stays at home while the man works. However, I don't do that often. My families are usually 1-2 females to start and they are self sufficient women.

Silly really, I found this thread while searching on google for what fruit my Sim needs to eat to have a gender biased birth for a girl.

So yes, I am quite obviously biased.
Theorist
#58 Old 7th Jun 2011 at 1:34 AM
Quote: Originally posted by ashleyhagen
Silly really, I found this thread while searching on google for what fruit my Sim needs to eat to have a gender biased birth for a girl.

It's a shame they removed it in one of the early patches. And I wish something like that existed for TS2, too, because I'm tired of exiting the lot without saving when they give birth just to a get a right gender. All sims born in my game are girls, except if they are twins, then one of them can be a boy. I'm also afraid that exiting without saving doesn't prevent more sim files to be created.

As for gender unequality, it's switched, the opposite of real life. I live in a country where there's no trace of feminism so women get openly ridiculed in mass-media and in daily life, and I don't want any of that in my game. Maybe equality would be more morally correct, but I saw long ago that if I try to do that, I slide down into the stereotypical behavior in my country, and as I said, I don't want that in my game. So in my game men always do cooking and cleaning, usually don't attend universities, and can't progress beyond the 5th level of any job.
Scholar
#59 Old 7th Jun 2011 at 1:52 AM Last edited by A.G.Doren : 7th Jun 2011 at 4:39 AM.
Quote: Originally posted by Babahara
It's a shame they removed it in one of the early patches. And I wish something like that existed for TS2, too, because I'm tired of exiting the lot without saving when they give birth just to a get a right gender. All sims born in my game are girls, except if they are twins, then one of them can be a boy. I'm also afraid that exiting without saving doesn't prevent more sim files to be created.

As for gender unequality, it's switched, the opposite of real life. I live in a country where there's no trace of feminism so women get openly ridiculed in mass-media and in daily life, and I don't want any of that in my game. Maybe equality would be more morally correct, but I saw long ago that if I try to do that, I slide down into the stereotypical behavior in my country, and as I said, I don't want that in my game. So in my game men always do cooking and cleaning, usually don't attend universities, and can't progress beyond the 5th level of any job.


That sucks, time to start the revolution.

Its pretty messed up that people will play into the things their culture has trained them to do whether they want to or not, at least you're cognizant enough to be aware of it.Women in the US and other western countries may not be as oppressed as women are in other parts of the world, but I was surprised at how many people simply duplicate reality without thinking of doing anything else.
Theorist
#60 Old 7th Jun 2011 at 2:42 AM
Quote: Originally posted by A.G.Doren
That sucks, time to start the revolution.

Its pretty messed up that people will play into the things their culture has trained them to do whether they want to or not, at least you're cognizant enough to be aware of it.Women in the US and other western may not be as oppressed as women are in other parts of the world, but I was surprised at how many people simply duplicate reality without thinking of doing anything else.

To be honest, I'd prefer not to be "cognizant" enough to be aware of it. I can't do anything to fix the situation in my country, yet my awareness of it spoils my life and relationships with men. To the point when I don't think I can find a husband, because living with somebody who hates me and treats me as a brainless houseworker (even if he's much more stupid) is not my dream. Been there, done that. And not looking for that anymore.

At least in TS2 men are good
Scholar
#61 Old 7th Jun 2011 at 4:52 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Babahara
To be honest, I'd prefer not to be "cognizant" enough to be aware of it. I can't do anything to fix the situation in my country, yet my awareness of it spoils my life and relationships with men. To the point when I don't think I can find a husband, because living with somebody who hates me and treats me as a brainless houseworker (even if he's much more stupid) is not my dream. Been there, done that. And not looking for that anymore.

At least in TS2 men are good



My momma always said "no man is better than a bad man".
Theorist
#62 Old 7th Jun 2011 at 8:33 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Lance
As far as I know you live in the same country as me. The asshole of the world, that's right, yet every day I see women here who are equal to men.

Equal in their own eyes? They share all the problems that other women have.

Quote:
And it's solely the second part who is "openly ridiculed in mass-media and in daily life" and, again with Babahara's words, "hated" by men - and what Babahara did not mention - by other women (the equal ones) as well.

I see women ridiculed in general, for stupidity and emotionality, etc. As for the housewife type who doesn't want to work, it is considered normal, I don't see any hate towards it anywhere. Neither for working women. Problem is with being a woman in general, since typically female attributes are considered to be inferior IQ, emotionality, etc. In work problems start when women want to work in typically "male" areas and have to excel far above all male candidates to get acknowledged, or when they want to share housework instead of doing it alone. That's about work, in normal life I can easily stumble upon a dozen or so instults towards women per day: from occasional chat remarks chats, from watching movies, from reading sites, etc.

Quote:
I remember Babahara's posts from elsewhere on the forum complaining that men force her to accept gifts and money. She complains a lot with wild exaggerations, especially of men treating her badly, too. It's just so bloody typical.

I don't remember saying that, but maybe because men take offense when you don't want gifts and so you basically have to accept them, and because you can't give gifts to them in a courting ritual? I'm pretty sure I could only say it in relation to men thinking that I owe them for gifts, or in relation to my inabilitity to give gifts. And I don't exaggerate anything, or complaining a lot on this forum, so I don't know why you're saying that. And why is it "typical"? For some reason you sound like you hate feminists and found my post offensive.

Edit:
Oh, I looked in your profile and saw that you're a man. That explains everything. I thought that your argument about women who demand money from men sounds typically male, as well as ignorance of their problems, but attributed it to you being a woman oblivious of inequality.
Mad Poster
#63 Old 7th Jun 2011 at 11:34 AM
I do have some gender rules in my game, that I have carried with me from TS2 to TS3. For example, I never make male Sims jump into their women's arms, not because it's not stereotypical, but because I think it's physically impossible for most women to do, so it looks very wrong.

In TS3 when you are relaxing on the bed, and you make out, the animation is basically that one Sim is on the bottom, the other on top, and the one on top is supporting the bottom Sim's head in their hand. The Sim who initiates the make-out is the one on the top, and for some reason I see those moves very masculin, so my guys are always the ones who initiate make-out on the bed. Plus, I do want my Sim girls to get some fore-play before the action, so if the guy is the one who wants to WooHoo, he needs to warm his women up first. If the woman has the want to WooHoo, then I usually have her initiate it standing up, because then she can use the "Whisper in Ear" interaction, that's quite seductive. I also like how they purr sometimes when doing it <3

In TS2 I remember specially the punch me punch you interaction. It looked like such a dude interaction, that my girls never did it. My guys also didn't do it for my girls, if I could help it, and you most certainly got the interaction cancelled if the girl in question was your mother. Seriously, who does things like that with their mother?

I also don't let my male Sims initiate fights with my female Sims.

When it comes to who takes who's name, who proposes, those have no gender based rules in my game. The one who gets the want to get married, is the one who will propose, because I want to give the other Sim a chance to back out if they so chooses. The one who lives in the household where the spouse will move in to, will have their name used as the family name, and the spouse will change their name, regardless are they male or female.

If the couple is gay, then of course all these rules don't apply as both will be the same gender, unless they have distinct male/female roles in the household.
Mad Poster
#64 Old 7th Jun 2011 at 2:05 PM
All generalizations are false.

One thing in my game is the reverse of real life: I'm likely to work harder to get men to stay fit, or at least skinny, than I am women. In real life, women are the ones forever worrying about their weight and paying attention to their nutrition. Not necessarily doing anything about it, mind, but worrying about it, starting diets, making fitness regimen plans they don't stick to, whatever. Men either do things that keep them fit, or they don't; they don't obsess about it. Anyway, as the Great Controller, I'm a lot more willing to let female sims gain weight than male sims, because a fat female sim can still look great in the right outfit. Fat male sims just look unwieldy and both the in-game and most of the CC I find tends to exaggerate that. Whereas there's a lot of male clothing that makes a fit man look yummy.

These are not the only factors in my making fitness decisions for them, of course. I have two teen girls whose OTH turns out to be fitness, anyone in the athlete career track does a little yoga or jump rope or something every single day, and if a sim is in a committed relationship with someone whose turn-ons or turn-offs includes fitness or body points s/he will take care to stay within the acceptable range or suffer the consequences. But when other factors don't apply, I'm willing to let the fitness slide for women, and have to fight to keep myself from forcing lazy men in sedentary jobs to keep fit just to keep myself in eye candy.

Ugly is in the heart of the beholder.
(My simblr isSim Media Res . Widespot,Widespot RFD: The Subhood, and Land Grant University are all available here. In case you care.)
Scholar
#65 Old 7th Jun 2011 at 2:39 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Lance
Yeah, that explains everything. Being a man I am completely unaware of other people's lives and problems, also I've never seen women in everyday life and, of course, never discussed serious stuff with them. 'Cause being a man I believe they all are stupid, anyway.
...Oh, I forget to add just how great is that sense of superiority I feel every time I see a woman.

PS They laugh at stupid men just as often.



Being from an altogether different disenfranchised group in an altogether different country Lance I can only advise you of one thing. If you are in the majority/enfranchised/empowered group you cannot ever know what it is like to be in a group that lives with any type of oppression. You sure can have unfair experiences in your lifetime,you can experience what will certainly feel like bias if your government takes steps to correct an existing inequality within your nation, but you won't ever know what it feels like to be apart of that disenfranchised group. Racism,sexism,bias etc...become institutionalized in countries and while laws may be passed to improve inequalities fighting an institution is a different, larger task and regardless of what you think you see around you it will continue to affect and limit people's lives.

If you accept the fact that you can't know you may actually learn something.
Site Helper
#66 Old 7th Jun 2011 at 2:54 PM
Let's get back to the topic at hand: how we play the game. If you want to discuss sexism in real life, go to a non-game forum. I'm pretty sure that we have an off-topic discussion forum at MTS and it likely already has a sexism thread.

[Update:] Ah, even better: "The Debate Room":
http://www.modthesims.info/forumdisplay.php?f=575
Theorist
#67 Old 8th Jun 2011 at 3:36 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Lance
AGDoren, you can't ever change injustice done to your minor group until you act in the worst way your oppressors picture you. That's what provoked me to attack Babahara's post.

Women act much worse than men picture them? Lance, doesn't what you just said ring a bell? You simply hate women as a group. What you descibed as women acting bad is caused by the patriarchal order: men set it up this way, they give money to women to obtain their domestic and sexual services. Nowadays only very rare women take money anyway, most of us work full-time jobs and work at home for their men and children, with no help or sharing work. So change the social order from inequality to equality in people's minds, and your own problem with "buying" women will be solved. From what you say, however, I can only make a conclusion that you want women to stop demanding anything from men, by still do what they used to do for men for free (!) and proceed being degraded and laughed at in culture. I.e. you don't want women to live better lives, you want them to live worse, by losing even small advantages that the patriarchal order gives to rare women who use them. Isn't it better to think of changing the order instead? It's in your own interest to support equality if you dislike the old ways so strongly. You'll find that there are some women who emphasize with you, however, not out of hate to themselves, they certainly don't want to make their own lives even worse. They would want to destroy the current order along with advantages and disadvantages it gave them, rather than keep it and lose even small advantages they had from it.

Sorry for off-topic, but I just couldn't ignore this. I don't have iron will to ignore such things, especially when somebody was personally attacking me. I promise to write nothing more, however. If this person was banned in another forum section, then I guess people already tried to argue with him and it was fruitless.
Mad Poster
#68 Old 8th Jun 2011 at 3:16 PM
(Pssst...he's trolling you, Babs! You can't prevent him from being a jackass, but you can prevent yourself from giving jackasses the power to upset you, or at least from getting the satisfaction of seeing that they've got it.)

I just realized on this rotation that couples that include a representative of the gynocentric families tend to give their kids dollhouses regardless of gender, while those drawn entirely from the other subcultures give them only to girls. The exception is my gay couple, whose adopted son sleeps in the same room as his grandmother, a Pleasure sim whose own toys take up so much space they never actually bought any specifically for the kid past the toddler educational toys. He and Grammy are thick as thieves, of course.

Heather Huffington Beare is the most stereotypically "feminine" of all my sims. She decorated the nursery in yellow, with pink crib and changing table, and when they expanded their house to accommodate her planned six kids she did one room in pink with butterflies for the girls and one in blue with soccer balls for the boys. She's got one of each right now, and dresses the girl in pink - she even aged up in the pink fairy costume! - and plays dolls with her. But when the butch lesbian family friend came over and taught her to throw a softball, trumpets went off. Turns out pink little Honey Beare has the OTH of sports! Oh, yeah, I can work with that!

Ugly is in the heart of the beholder.
(My simblr isSim Media Res . Widespot,Widespot RFD: The Subhood, and Land Grant University are all available here. In case you care.)
world renowned whogivesafuckologist
retired moderator
#69 Old 8th Jun 2011 at 5:16 PM
MTS Staff Note:

Let's please get back on-topic, and leave the ugliness and bickering behind. Thanks.
Lab Assistant
#70 Old 8th Jun 2011 at 6:40 PM
In my in-game marriages, Sims take whichever name I prefer. For example, if Victoire Weasley and Teddy Lupin get married one day, they'll probably end up being the Lupins; however, Jackie Smith and Ben Quetzcoatl would probably be the Smiths, because really? Quetzlcoatl?

As a corollary to that rule, if I'm trying to carry on a particular family name, then the second half of the relationship will always take that name, be that new half male or female. Heirs can be any gender--usually it's the first and only-born, since I don't like multi-children families. In other cases, it's whoever I'm fondest of: the smartest one, the sweetest one, the one with the most interesting personality or hobby.

I realized recently that women proposing to men squicked me too, and it's a preference that I'm trying to correct. I don't care who initiates other romantic interactions, after all, and the engagement doesn't matter as much as the marriage, because the marriage is what determines the last name. Since there's no reason to stop women from proposing to men, I've decided to make an effort to have some couples do it that way. None of my ladies are very traditionally-minded anyway, so why wouldn't they propose?

At home, for realism's sake, the lady always carries the babies, but she continues to go to work throughout her pregnancy and, in many cases, will return to work the day after giving birth, leaving the baby home with a nanny/family member. Since most of my Sims are Knowledge Sims, they usually roll wants to get jobs right away, and any Sim that wants a career takes it, whether male or female. If the family can afford it, and if one of the Sims doesn't want a job, then that Sim stays home. For example, Nymphadora Tonks-Lupin continued working as an Auror after she married Remus Lupin, but Remus, suffering the stigma of a werewolf and not particularly keen on working anyway, stayed home to take care of their son. He writes novels in his spare time.

In some families, particularly sharply traditional ones like the ancient Blacks, stark gender rules apply. Usually, however, the children of these families quickly break away from their oppressive childhoods and establish new ways of living (like Andromeda). My hyper-traditional families don't last long before some child or other breaks from the mold and changes the course of things.

I try to keep my game as gender-neutral as possible, then, and my Sims tend to be stubbornly gender-neutral. Couples treat each other with dignity and equality and they usually start out as friends long before ACR ever pushes them over the boundary into affection, so there's an established respect between them. Both members of a couple have equal opportunity to achieve their goals, and both help raise any children they have.
Field Researcher
#71 Old 8th Jun 2011 at 9:51 PM
I've been enjoying this thread and seeing the different ways people handle gender in their games.

In my game, there is no gender differentiation. I love that about the sims. I love the fact that sims are not human and a female sim can catch her hubby/boyfriend when he leaps into her arms (I do kind of wish that a sim -male or female- that is unfit or has no body skill points would drop their leaping honey on occasion )

I like that male sims will feed the baby at 3 a.m. or scrub a toilet without complaining (well, without complaining any more than the female sims do!) I think it's cool when a male sim asks his GF out, they have a dream date and she leaves a bunch of roses for him (or a big expensive gift.)

It doesn't bother me when a female sim picks a fight with a male. I have thefightclub and moarfight mods, so they all need to work on their body skill, just in case. I have a Uni girl right now who has a bigger hate on for the Cow Mascot than anyone else in her dorm, so I'm training her up so she can whup some cow butt, and nevermind that the current Cow is male.

As for last names, I decide who proposes marriage (and hence whose last name will be used) according to which name I like better, or how many households are likely to end up under the same name - in a current neighborhood, the Calmeyer family had six kids; when those six kids marry, I'll make sure four or five of them take their spouse's last name just so I don't end up with seven "The Calmeyer Family" households, heh. I often use the Lot Debugger change name function to give a newly married couple the Hyphen; Smythely and Johnstone get married and become The Smythely-Johnstone Family (I may have to go to SimPE to change the household name displayed in the neighborhood view but it only takes a minute.)

I have same sex couples all the time, particularly when my playable population is slanted in favor of one sex; I've had a lot of girls born in my Skygusty neighborhood and to keep them from marrying fugly townies, about half of them are going to grow up gay, so they can marry other non-fugly playable girls. I usually let the game decide the sex of babies and rarely quit-without-save to try for the opposite. I use pregforallgenders and the related wants fixes. Pregforall doesn't allow the male in a heterosexual couple to get pregnant, but I don't really care who's carrying the baby. Pregforall is just so same sex couples don't have to adopt fuglies, because loading the adoption pool would be a nuisance.

For jobs, skills and badges, every sim learns any skill they happen to need. Any sim can have any career. If a female has a career LTW and her husband doesn't, he may quit his job and stay home to take care of the kids - or vice versa. All my sims wear makeup; guys can have long hair, girls can have short hair (I actually like the pixie haircut and downloaded a conversion for males!)

It's one of the things I really love about this game. I don't have to make a female stay home and take care of the kids. I don't have to make a male do the career grind. They can all stay home and grow tomatoes and play punch-me-punch you, or they can all own businesses and work themselves into motive desperation in search of the almighty simolean. They can all burp and fart in public or cry when they're picked on - or beat up the Evil Cow Mascot for being a great big pain in the ass. The game doesn't care which sex is doing it, and neither do I.
Field Researcher
#72 Old 8th Jun 2011 at 10:11 PM
withrwithoutyu, how do you go about changing last name in SimPE? I've never just changed the last name in the place where it's obvious to make the modification, because I recall hearing it was bad and that additional changes had to be made in SimPE if you were to do it that way. (I don't remember where/when I heard it, so if anyone can chime in, please go ahead.
Field Researcher
#73 Old 8th Jun 2011 at 11:59 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Julieryc
withrwithoutyu, how do you go about changing last name in SimPE? I've never just changed the last name in the place where it's obvious to make the modification, because I recall hearing it was bad and that additional changes had to be made in SimPE if you were to do it that way. (I don't remember where/when I heard it, so if anyone can chime in, please go ahead.


There's a FAQ/tutorial for changing last name and household name in SimPE over here on MTS. I've used this many times to change household name and it hasn't caused any problems *knock wood*

You will need to change the last name of each sim in the family individually, if you want their last names to match the new household name.

And remember to make a good backup first. I always back up by copying my Sims 2 folder to a .zip file, as I've read that SimPE's backup function is not as good as it could be.
Field Researcher
#74 Old 9th Jun 2011 at 12:53 AM
Just found the thread in MATY - it's changing *first* names in SimPE that's not safe (doesn't change everything that needs changing). Hurray! And I didn't know how to change household names; that's terrific. Thanks!
Theorist
#75 Old 9th Jun 2011 at 8:37 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Julieryc
Just found the thread in MATY - it's changing *first* names in SimPE that's not safe (doesn't change everything that needs changing). Hurray! And I didn't know how to change household names; that's terrific. Thanks!

Could you point me to that thread? I didn't know that it's dangerous to change first names, and I find myself doing it from time to time.
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