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As the mesh crumbles....
staff: moderator
#51 Old 25th Jan 2007 at 8:07 PM Last edited by porkypine : 25th Jan 2007 at 8:27 PM.
You're welcome. :0) I am trying to understand how people want the wiki organized. There is a bit of a language barrier between Patul, Niol and myself. I don't think we always understand each other correctly. Even so, I think those two are doing a great job.

Currently, the wiki points directly to existing content threads, tutorials and posts on MTS2. Often it just points to a thread which makes it very clunky for researchers trying to find answers quickly. I know I don't have much time to wade through things and just want to find the info - not go fishing.

What I'd prefer is to create new entries in the wiki and copy the original material into the wiki and reference the source author and location. Many of the tutorials have great information but take a long time to load - the images are often too large, etc. What I want to do is just capture the images and upload them to the wiki so they show up as thumbs. People reading the tutorials can open the thumbs for a bigger image if they need it. I also want to copy the tutorial content into the wiki, using the wiki format and reference the original source.

The original tutorials on this site, while being a great tool are difficult to search - you have to scroll up and down past large images looking for stuff. I want to revise that, but it's not my call. The main reason I want to put the content on the wiki is to make it easier to insert updates, corrections, clarifications etc. of course, the original author is notated and credited. and there would be links to the original document. Of course, many tutorial authors may not want 'the public' wiki editors from modifying their work. In that case, I think we should link to their tutorial and have subsections for all the modifiers and addendums.

My personal problem is I have a terrible problem typing. I go too fast and invert my letter sequences or I don't hit the keys hard enough so letters drop out. I'm the 'Typo Queen of TEH'. This is why I am not a receptionist! Give me a soldering iron, breadboard, some transistors, chips, diodes, caps & transistors and I'll wire up a radio for you. Just don't ask me to type up quick letter to the President and not use spell check.

Maybe this isn't the appropriate place for it, but Scientific American sent me a 'join our book club' junk mail and in it they had, "Electronic projects for the Evil Genius!" Gosh... that title just appeals to me so much! (ssshsh! girls aren't 'sposed to like fiddling with electronic doo-hickey thingamabob whatsits! We're 'sposed to like soap operas - [gag-barf] yuck! soap operas are enough to make anyone take up )
Alchemist
Original Poster
#52 Old 25th Jan 2007 at 10:49 PM Last edited by wes_h : 25th Jan 2007 at 10:52 PM. Reason: didn't catch 'em all...
Ah. Interesting.

My first electronics projects used tubes. That's because a CK722 transistor (garden variety NPN) ran $2.00 at Allied Radio (later bought out and flown into the ground by Tandy/Radio Shack). At that time, the minimum wage was below $1.00 (maybe 85 cents), and I didn't have a spare 2 bucks.

My love for radio carried me through a career in related electronics that has allowed me to quit working for 'the man' and set myself up raising cattle. Either that, or I'm a bum, because I haven't had a job now since 2001.

While I am not in control of anything around here (except my fat fingers) I would like to see stuff cut-and-pasted onto organized topic pages. For instance, dizzy (maybe Dizzy2 here) recently posted a message with a comprehensive compilation of the AGED section parameters. While I don't have an immediate need for that information, I might one of these days. Right now it is aging out-of-view in the threads (in the modding area, maybe).

Nuggets like those are what we should be harvesting and compiling on the Wiki. Even if they don't all have a common look and feel, they can be reformatted later, so long as the information is organized. Some people have dedicated many hours to experimenting with the various parameters in the package parts, and what they shared should be easy to find.

<* Wes *>

Oh, and I often have to go back and change teh into the, won;t into won't, and even <* wes 8> into <* Wes *> before I hit 'Submit Reply'.
Admin of Randomness
staff: retired moderator
#53 Old 25th Jan 2007 at 10:58 PM Last edited by tiggerypum : 29th Jan 2007 at 3:22 AM.
porkypine, not that we should be discussing organizing data here in the unimesh thread - this part of the site has an infocenter, exactly designed for extracting nuggets and having them here on site in a more readable 'jumble' as it is. The wiki solution of leaving things on mts2 with good text explanations on the wiki but leaving the data also on mts2 is so that it's searchable from mts2. Otherwise we have a tangle where info is in two different places, articles are no longer attributed on mts2 to the members who wrote them, and thanks buttons also become a mess to implement. You can link to a specific message in a thread. Or you can point me at something you want in the infocenter, I'm good at extracting things.

In some cases, reading the entire thread gives the full picture in a way that pointing to a single message does not, it depends on the topic. But yes, it is a difficult balance.

"Undertake something that is difficult; it will do you good. Unless you try to do something beyond what you have already mastered, you will never grow." - Ronald E. Osborn

Please do NOT PM me with requests, creation questions, or game help questions. Click for help:
Game Help | Create | Content List | Where Can I Find?
Systemic Anomaly
#54 Old 29th Jan 2007 at 2:48 AM
Just a quick update. I finally found that spare moment this weekend to crank out a first pass on that interpolation tool for verts with unassigned bones/bone weights. I ended up constructing a representation of the mesh as an adjacency list using a boost container library (http://www.boost.org) and then using the objx file was able to pick out the unassigned vertices and apply a distance-weighted interpolation of the neighboring bone assignments.

It's not entirely useful as a general tool just yet, but it did for me in 10 seconds, what I spent 2 evenings trying to do by hand (and failed). I am rather pleased with the end result. There is still some fine tuning that is needed to eliminate unwanted clipping during certain animations, but gone is the unsightly shearing and stretching. Yay.

Thanks for your help earlier, Wes.

Cheers,

J
Alchemist
Original Poster
#55 Old 29th Jan 2007 at 3:33 AM
That sounds pretty interesting. Likely to be a hit if you get it fully developed.

As far as the help, I was glad to do the small amount I did. If you might rather turn your code into a MS plugin, I'd be happy to help you get started. C/C++ are the native interface, but any language that can interface to MS standard C++ DLL call and can provide a C++ callback (such as Visual Basic) will work.

This might make it a little easier to gather the data and effect the results, because you just make some function calls in a loop to extract the vertex data or bone locations, and a simple function call will make a bone assignment or weighting. In the case of an error condition, you can return the model with any changes ignored (-1) without having to track all previous changes.

I would even be happy to write the framework if you describe what inputs and outputs you would like for the assignment code. The reason I suggest this is that you then do not need to worry about updating to fix any changes in ObjX (not that I know of any for certain) and do not need the temporary file interface.

<* Wes *>
Field Researcher
#56 Old 1st Feb 2007 at 7:58 PM Last edited by melanise : 1st Feb 2007 at 8:19 PM.
Default Unimesh Bone tool error!! :-(
i was browsing through here and yay thanks for the update i'll defenitely have to give hair meshing another shot but oh my god after all plans i've been making for a site for the sims2 on my process through meshing a new outfit adding new bits etc, when i select my new mesh to add assignments and click on the Unimesh Bone tool i get an error message i almost cried lol i even restarted the whole PC i thought it was something minor.
anyway i saw in the thread someone has the same problem as me and this worries me because you said you dont know what it is so i posted a pic here of what crap i'm getting from the program lol hpe you can help >.<;

Edit: Ok.... this is weird i read on and found the site for milkshape, i am also using another half of a mesh and combining it and i am certain that i excluded the extra bones to be braught in with the second mesh. mean while i refered back to an old mesh that i have completed and checked to see if i could use the Bone Tool on that and it worked! i hate to think about it but i might just have to start again >.< but i dunno what could be the problem in the first place....
Field Researcher
#57 Old 1st Feb 2007 at 8:34 PM
Ok never mind i guess maybe i put the other mesh in with aditional bones because i just tried again and it works perfect >.< clumsey blonde *slaps her self* thanks again for the update wesh ^.~ xx and i know this is off topic but when i upload the new milkshape do i delete the previous version ?
Admin of Randomness
staff: retired moderator
#58 Old 1st Feb 2007 at 8:49 PM
It doesn't matter if you delete the old milkshape or not. When you download and install the new milkshape, you need to download and install the unimesh plugins again with the most recent version from the site (milkshape comes with one of the older versions). Also, if you get odd error messages still, you can go back to the milkshape site and look for the 'open gl' stuff and see if that helps.

"Undertake something that is difficult; it will do you good. Unless you try to do something beyond what you have already mastered, you will never grow." - Ronald E. Osborn

Please do NOT PM me with requests, creation questions, or game help questions. Click for help:
Game Help | Create | Content List | Where Can I Find?
Alchemist
Original Poster
#59 Old 2nd Feb 2007 at 12:52 AM
The opengl drivers have been a source of a lot of MilkShape issues for a lot of people, not just Sims2 users. I am not sure of what the underlying problem is, but some systems seem to come with compatible drivers and some don't.

The latest posts I read indicate the TS2 works on Vista, as long as the base game has the patch. And I also read that MilkShape works from the start on Vista for some people, others have had to update the drivers. Go figure! If they're running Vista, this is supposed to be the latest systems and software.

Last, for anyone interested, the next update of MilkShape is nearing completion. The BoneTool is expected to be made a part of MilkShape, as built-in function rather than a separate plugin. The latest UniMesh versions (4.07 plus updated exporter) should be shipped with it.

While there are things being done in the update for other games/file formats, of interest to Sims2 meshing are a change that will make comments carry over after a regroup or duplicate selection action. The comments will be concatenated, so that if you grouped two original groups together, the comments from both will be there. The most common use for regroup, though, is where you create a new mesh part (sphere, cylinder, etc.) and add it to the original mesh group. This will help all the people that forget to copy and paste the comments (like myself) so we don;t have to type them in all over again.

Also, by request, the Subdivide2 function will now be built-in and will be UV mapped automatically (based on the subdivided vertices).


That's all I remember about the update, and the timing of the release isn't set, although I think it will not be a real long time away.

<* Wes *>
Admin of Randomness
staff: retired moderator
#60 Old 2nd Feb 2007 at 2:38 AM
it would be nice if we could get a better set of 'extended edit' tools as demon hasn't seemed to be around (or around frequently) for some time. We had some requests for being able to copy entire sets of values and pasting them (instead of copying each individual value by hand for x, y, and z, for instance). If we're doing a wish list, lol :D

"Undertake something that is difficult; it will do you good. Unless you try to do something beyond what you have already mastered, you will never grow." - Ronald E. Osborn

Please do NOT PM me with requests, creation questions, or game help questions. Click for help:
Game Help | Create | Content List | Where Can I Find?
Alchemist
Original Poster
#61 Old 2nd Feb 2007 at 3:26 AM
I don't know if a wish list is viable for the next release. MilkShape customers are welcome to expose their thoughts at the chumba site. Answers don't alwyas come as often as in your forums.

I do wish Mr. demon had posted the source for his work. His extended manual edit is much better than the one that comes with MilkShape, and would probably be a candidate for inclusion with the regular plugins if he had ever posted it there. If he no longer wanted to support it, I might be able to rustle up a new caretaker for it.

It would not be hard for me to expose the items for editing, but rewriting the nice tabular user interface he made for his editor is beyond what I am prepared to take on.

<* Wes *>
Test Subject
#62 Old 10th Feb 2007 at 3:41 PM
does this work with Wings 3d?
Instructor
#63 Old 10th Feb 2007 at 5:29 PM
No, these are plugins for Milkshape only.

Be sure to stop by Warlokk's Tower Workshop to see my latest creations!
Need help with the Bodyshape Sets? Bodyshape How-To Tutorial updated 11-18-06
Test Subject
#64 Old 13th Feb 2007 at 8:06 PM Last edited by lolocka : 14th Feb 2007 at 3:58 PM.
Hi all, I am working on new mesh and I have problem with bone assigment. I use UniMeshExporter407A and Milkshape
When I assign all 100% head everything is o.k. but as soon as I assign some part for example 80%head 20% r_hair, my hair doesnt look correctly. Please see attached pictures because I cant say it in english
Screenshots
Alchemist
Original Poster
#65 Old 13th Feb 2007 at 11:33 PM
4.07 should not be doing that.
Your pictures did not show up.

<* Wes *>
Test Subject
#66 Old 14th Feb 2007 at 4:37 PM Last edited by lolocka : 16th Feb 2007 at 6:46 AM.
I dont understand it too. I made 2 hair using 4.07 plugin version and I have no problems with it. Today I tried to make new assigment, hoping that everything will be ok again, but not. Now my hair looks following (see the picture)
I attached mesh, so that you can look at it. Thanks for any suggestions
Screenshots
Admin of Randomness
staff: retired moderator
#67 Old 14th Feb 2007 at 4:51 PM
Have we determined that all the hair meshes use the same bone locations (I had been wondering about that, if they really use the same animation points for 'long' hair and 'short' hair animating). And 20%, is that the sort of numbers that maxis hair of a similar sort had on those assignments?? Soon I will experiment with hair animation myself and maybe have more answers than questions.

"Undertake something that is difficult; it will do you good. Unless you try to do something beyond what you have already mastered, you will never grow." - Ronald E. Osborn

Please do NOT PM me with requests, creation questions, or game help questions. Click for help:
Game Help | Create | Content List | Where Can I Find?
Scholar
#68 Old 14th Feb 2007 at 9:29 PM
have the same problems with animated hair acting strangely after installing 4.07. I think the skeleton gets damaged somehow. I don't know how though

I reverted to 4.06, replaced the skeleton, and only then did it work again.

Please visit WickedNoukFamily Forum for my creations.
Can't take requests, I'm completely swamped with unfinished projects! :O
Alchemist
Original Poster
#69 Old 15th Feb 2007 at 2:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lolocka
I dont understand it too. I made 2 hair using 4.07 plugin version and I have no problems with it.

I attached mesh, so that you can look at it. Thanks for any suggestions


I have looked at it. It is not suffering from moved joint locations, as Nouk's recent problem was.

I looked at the screenshots and this does not look like the old animation issues, where pieces were in front that belonged behind, etc.

I have not made enough hair meshes to qualify as an expert. But some of your vertices were assigned 25% to the r_hair bone. I did notice that on some work I did, the hair animated well with 10% _hair assignments, and that increasing the amount assigned to the _hair bones did make the hair position move from the original position.

But in that case, the hair was pulling in, not pushing out.

I will try to make time to experiment with it, but I am not sure it is a plugin issue but rather a construction issue, related to whiich parts are assigned and by how much.

Sorry I haven't been more help.

<* Wes *>
Test Subject
#70 Old 15th Feb 2007 at 7:54 PM
wes_h, Nouk, tiggerypum, thanks for your replies. I appreciate your effort. wes_h could you please send me v.4.06? I will PM you my mail address. Thanks
Instructor
#71 Old 15th Feb 2007 at 10:15 PM
I had this problem too!!
I exported my mesh from milkshape,as .obj.
Then imported the orignal 5gd (gmdc)(mesh) into milkshape and renamed the groups: hair, and alphas,to different names.Then import Obj. Then rename all comments and group names to the right ones,then assign the required parts to the required bones
Worked for me (NewPixie uploaded yesterday)

DONT ASK ME FOR A REQUEST ^-^
New Policy,applies to all my meshes ^-^
Im not meshing/Simming now,details in my Policy thing
Test Subject
#72 Old 15th Feb 2007 at 11:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by callum91
I had this problem too!!
I exported my mesh from milkshape,as .obj.
Then imported the orignal 5gd (gmdc)(mesh) into milkshape and renamed the groups: hair, and alphas,to different names.Then import Obj. Then rename all comments and group names to the right ones,then assign the required parts to the required bones
Worked for me (NewPixie uploaded yesterday)


Works for me too It was a really good piece of advice - thanks a million!!!
Alchemist
Original Poster
#73 Old 16th Feb 2007 at 1:11 AM
Well, I am not sure the problem is in the plugins. But I have made a band-aid that might help in the future.

I realized that the easiest way to repair a broken skeleton would be by using the importer. But the code I had for recognizing an import overtop an existing one did not recognize a set of bones with no mesh groups. So I changed that.

Now, to fix a suspected broken skeleton, you would backup your work (export as GMDC), perform a file/new from the menu and then import a GMDC with a known good skeleton (such as the original hair or body mesh you started with). You can then delete all the groups from the groups tab and then import your backup GMDC. When the importer warns of importing over another model, click OK to continue, and then answer No when asked about importing additional bones. Your bone assignments and skin weights should all remain in place, but all the joint data will be replaced.

Another change I made relates both to the look and function of the skeleton for body meshes and the ability to export moved bones. The newest importer builds the joints for body meshes only as a linked skeleton, rather than the set of circles like before. The joints are in the same positions, but are now defined as a set. So the imported models can be posed using MilkShape's animation tools. I have attached a couple screenshots of a posed and textured Sim model.

I don't want to write a tutorial on animating models in MilkShape wehn there is a perfectly good one available by selecting the Help menu from within MilkShape. If you never downloaded the help files, it will help you get that done.

The linked skeletons cannot be exported that way, so I have made the new exporter recognize that and just export the bones in their original positions. While moving joints will still work for object meshes, for body meshes it has done nothing but create problems and heartache.

If you pose a model with the animation tools and then export it with UniMesh in the altered pose, the GMDC will be out-of-whack because the mesh will be moved but the original joint positions will stay the same. This may be good for laughs, but it is not any use for mesh-making.

But, you can export as a Wavefront .OBJ file and the mesh MilkShape exports will have the shape you posed. So, you could use this as the base for a Sim statue, for example.

The animation is somewhat blocky because the current release of MilkShape only animates using the first bone assignment. The next MilkShape release is supposed to use the additional assignments and weights, and should provide smoother bends.

<* Wes *>
Screenshots
Instructor
#74 Old 16th Feb 2007 at 10:39 AM
Wes, the new plug looks great! hopefully there might be a tonne of new objects coming soon with new animations,huh?
anyway,the thing that i said seems like a fix.Nouk originally said it could be:PetsEp,the newer plugins or ruined skeleton.
So I did what I mentioned above and it works!
:D

DONT ASK ME FOR A REQUEST ^-^
New Policy,applies to all my meshes ^-^
Im not meshing/Simming now,details in my Policy thing
Instructor
#75 Old 17th Feb 2007 at 5:19 PM Last edited by Warlokk : 17th Feb 2007 at 5:56 PM.
Hi Wes--

I may have found a problem with the Unimesh Importer I thought you should be aware of, which I haven't seen before. When I create a mesh and export it as a .simpe file, the re-import that file, there seems to be some corruption of the mesh in places. If I save the same file as an .ms3d file and reload it, it works fine, and the .simpe files also look fine in SimPE and in-game... it only screws up when I re-import the .simpe file into Milkshape,which is why I think it may be the importer. Strangely, it only seems to be affecting the Fat morph too.

I've attached some screenshots to illustrate what I'm seeing, this is my new PowerGirl mesh, which I've already released over at InSIM. Since I can just save and reload .ms3d files I can work around the problem, but I wanted to let you know.

*edit* I added a file containing the .ms3d, .simpe and a MESH package file, if anyone wants to take a look.
Screenshots
Download - please read all instructions before downloading any files!
File Type: rar PowerGirl_Samples.rar (369.5 KB, 95 downloads) - View custom content

Be sure to stop by Warlokk's Tower Workshop to see my latest creations!
Need help with the Bodyshape Sets? Bodyshape How-To Tutorial updated 11-18-06
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