The Capp family and the Monty family both reside in Veronaville. However, there are some oddities relating to their families, regarding birth order of the (now adult) children in each household and their resulting status within the family.

According to the in-game story-line, Juliette Capp and Romeo Monty are considered the heiress and "golden child" of the Capp and Monty families, respectively. This implies to me that they are the eldest child (of the correct gender) of the eldest child (of the correct gender). So Juliette Capp would be the eldest daughter of Consort & Contessa's eldest daughter, and Romeo would be the eldest son of Patrizio & Isabella's eldest son.

But according to Consort's memories Juliette's mother (Cordelia) is actually his youngest child, and Goneril is the oldest child. In TS3 Consort and Contessa live in Roaring Heights with Goneril and her younger sister, Regan. According to the family tree, however, Cordelia is the eldest child, followed by Goneril, Regan and Kent.

And according to Patrizio's memories Romeo's father (Claudio) was actually the youngest child, after Bianca and Antonio. And Romeo was Claudio's second son - his brother, Mercutio, is older than him. The family tree also shows Bianca as the oldest, followed by Antonio and then Claudio. This is also their birth order in TS3. But in TS2 Bianca is actually slightly younger than Antonio (she has more days remaining before becoming an elder).

So, I was wondering, if/when you play Veronaville, how do you assign the siblings' birth orders/ages in both families? Who do you regard as the Capp heiress and the Monty heir, and why?

Yeah, I think I looked a lot at everyone's memories a while back and came up with your birth order for the Capps: Goneril, Regan, Cordelia, Kent. Don't ask me when all the grandchildren were born, though--that's a bit harder but my general feeling is that Cordelia married young and had kids about the same time as Goneril. I usually play that Miranda is the oldest grandchild, only being a few years/days older than Tybalt, Hermia, and Juliette. Also, I realized that the Capps is a matriarchy, so Miranda is my heir, though a reluctant one, since she's romance and doesn't really care about carrying on the family name or running family businesses, but in my "canon" playthrough of the Capps she's accepted this and hasn't given up heirship yet. That hood is one of my old story hoods and both families were affected, Capps more so--Consort was murdered, Kent had an elevator "accident," several grandchildren married legacy spares, and for some reason I let Regan and Cornwall have six kids. Still don't know how that one happened. It was a pre ACR install, too, so I musta been off my rocker...

Anyway, the Montys, I view as an old school patriarchy. Consort would prefer this, too, I think, but he married into money and so the courts decided Miranda is heir. (The courts had to step in because Consort was murdered shortly--very shortly, like hours--after marriage to a much younger sim. It was a whole big drama--Consort had rewritten his will and used his new wife's money to renovate the mansion but, understandably, Goneril, Regan, and Kent contested the new will. The courts decided to let the Capps keep all their money in the family but named Miranda as heiress and recipient of the fortune, though.)

Anyway, back to the Montys before I get sidetracked talking about the Capps again (Can you tell I'm team Capp all the way? ). Benedick was named heir in that hood, since Antonio is the eldest son. So he's my "canon" heir. Antonio had thought to strike out on his own for a split second after his wife died, but who was he kidding? There'd be absolutely no reason to work as a chef for someone else and he'd be denying Benedick his birthright. So he's always moved back home. Mercutio and Romeo, I see as similar to Tybalt, Hermia, and Juliette, in that their parents had them young and they're living with their grandparents only because their parents are dead. Patrizio is, ironically, more strict than the Capps with his money--probably due to not marrying any heiresses--so while he cares for Mercutio and Romeo, they aren't going to college, especially since neither show any interest in school or studying. As a self-made man, he'll provide for Benedick and send him to college, to help ease him into the family business, but no one else is getting such luxuries. The way I play, in that family, the heir is all important and spares are for political marriages and free labor in the family restaurants.

Bianca had tried running away with Kent, but like I said, he had a mysterious elevator accident. Kent was staying at the Capp Mansion, acting as placeholder until the grandchildren graduated. He moved Bianca in and I think they married, but I'm not sure; they definitely had twins though, and Bianca was pregnant again when Kent died. Unmoved by all that, Goneril and Regan kicked her out as soon as they could and she had no choice but to slink back home. As this was around the point that my backup of this hood became corrupted (All sims are okay but no houses whatsoever. It's weird.), I have no idea what I was going to do with this storyline, but I think Patrizio was only taking her in on the condition that she'd work for the family, in the business and at home, and, if necessary, remarry for the family benefit. No idea what was happening with the kids.

So yeah, Capps are a matriarchy, Miranda's heir and Montys are a patriarchy with Benedick as heir. The feud doesn't really exist anymore; very few people are actually still enemies and my Tybalt found other things to do with his time (He's a mellow rock god who had three kids with Elizabeth Ng).

Although traditionally an heir would be the oldest child, I assume Consort chose Cordelia as his heir (a reference to King Lear) and after she died, it would have automatically gone to her oldest daughter, Juliette.

As for Romeo, I do think that Antonio is the Monty heir but Romeo as a Monty and living with Patrizio gives him access to the family fortune and respect (or disrespect). So he wouldn't be THE heir but an heir, much like the British Royal family in a sense.

When I tried to read up on the background of the Capps', and Montys', I got confused. So, I put my own spin on things. In my Uberhood, Tybalt is the heir for Capps. I believed that Cordelia was the heir when she died. Instead of selecting his other children to take her place, Consort choose his favorite Grandchild, Tybalt. Tybalt, with the help of his cousin, Miranda is trying to get the Capp fortune back to what it was a long time ago. Tybalt is angry at Hermia, because she was supposed to be the family servant, but instead she's having a baby out of wedlock. One of the Kingdom rules is: Thou shall not conceive a child, outside of marriage. Tybalt is planning to kick her out the manor, and promote Juliette to servant. He was going to do the opposite, when he gets married to Miranda. You didn't misread, Tybalt is taking it 1800's old-school, and marrying his cousin.

For the Montys', Mercutio is the heir, as Romeo is deemed to be immature to handle such a task. Mercutio is so busy with work, that he hasn't had the time to find a mate. He met and taken a liking to Angela Pleasant. She's the only female he likes that fits the financial requirements of being married into the family. I have no idea what to do with Bianca and the rest of the Montys'. They are townies, so I always forget about them. They aren't close the Mercutio at all.

I'm gonna jump on the bandwagon and say that Capp and Monty heirs are chosen by the current head of the family rather than by birth order.

That being said I like to think that Goneril was heir at one point, but fell from that position after she had the atrocious idea to rebuild the whole Capp-controlled half of the town as ugly, almost identical looking Tudor-style houses in a failed business venture to create a "historical core" for Veronaville to attract tourists. Instead it scared the tourists away and the town was stuck with a huge number of ugly, impractical houses. Then Contessa died of shock when looking out of the window in the morning.
Needless to say Consort was furious and made Cordelia his heir instead.
When Cordelia died Consort chose Juliet because it would be easier to control an orphaned granddaughter living in his household than an adult daughter living her own life. Juliet was chosen because Consort thought Hermia was too shy and sensitive to ever become head of the family.

With the Montys it's even easier. Not entirely sure about the timeline here (with the Sims 2, can you ever be sure of a timeline?) But I'd say after the death of his wife Antonio was fed up with the feud, possibly also falling into depression and the position of heir went either to Claudio (if he was till around) or Romeo.
Here Romeo was chosen over Mercutio because Mercutio is...well...kinda slow...if you understand what I'm saying. For one thing he actually believes that the "family business" is actually a restaurant, poor thing.

Sometimes I play with the thought of creating an "expanded" Veronaville that would be patterned more closely after Romeo and Juliet and would have more than three family lines living in it.

Some ideas include:

A mayor named Escalus Principe with Paris, Valentine and Mercutio as his sons.
Romeo having a cousin named Benvolio, who also lost his parents to the feud and is also living with his grandparents.
Creating all four of the main characters from a Midsummer Night's Dream (Hermia, Helena, Lysander and Demetrius)+ families (so no Hermia being Juliet's sister)
Including Rosaline (Romeo's previous love)
Including the Capulet and Montague servants as less prominent families aligned with the Capps or Montys (Rosaline and Pertuchio could hail from these households)
Including Townies named after the mechanicals from Midsummer Night's Dream (with the exception of Bottom who will be Titania's lover)
Replacing Oberon and Titania's daughter "Bottom" with four girls named after the Fairy servants from the play.
Including the Nurse as Juliet's cool aunt.
Including Friar Lawrence and Friar John as a same-sex couple named Lawrence and John Friar who are also Romeo's uncles.

The main problem with that plan is time and that I'd have to replace all the houses, since I can't stand to look at those tudor nightmares for long.



Trying to fit Sims 3 "canon" into Sims 2 canon rarely works, personally I consider the Sims titles parallel universes from one another, like in superhero comics.

With the Capps, I think it's easy to miss that Consort is not the actual head of the family - his wife was. It's a matriarchy, and all the male spouses take their wives' name. The late Contessa was the one in charge, and Consort is just that, a consort. He gets some influence as a respected elder, and he's the guardian of his orphaned grandchildren until they reach adulthood, but he doesn't own the family fortune and has no say in who inherits. As for birth order, yeah, it's unclear. I prefer Cordelia as the eldest, because her youngest child is the same age as Goneril's oldest, and it doesn't look like Goneril waited to have kids, given that she has four... So I usually go with that as my headcanon. That makes Juliette the oldest daughter of the oldest daughter, and therefore the heiress. Problem solved to my satisfaction, and I ignore those pesky memories.

As for the Montys, I simply tell myself that they're patriarchal, but don't follow primogeniture. There's no title or anything to be passed down, so they pick the son best suited to take over the family business. [Godfather theme plays.] Romeo isn't necessarily the chosen heir, but he is the spoiled pampered favorite (perhaps because he was so young when his parents died), and that's what "golden child" means. In my current Veronaville Patrizio has had a hard time picking an heir, but has finally settled on young Benedick, with Antonio as interim caretaker until Benedick is an adult. Antonio, who "started a construction company" as the new front for the family business (his LTW is City Planner) would probably make a very good heir - but he's gay, and Patrizio considers that unacceptable. With the birth order, it was probably originally intended to be Antonio, Bianca, Claudio - ABC - but then the story shifted during development of the 'hood, and things got messed up when someone forgot to change some things. Considering Bianca is barely into adulthood at the beginning, she can't very well have a younger brother who produced two teenaged sons already, unless Claudio started having kids when he was barely into his teens... so she's the youngest. I guess it could go either way between Antonio and Claudio as the oldest, but it seems clear that Claudio was the favorite.

I like to see him akin to a "Queen Regent" (not Queen Regnant!) in real world history, basically a surviving spouse of a ruler who handles things until the actual heir comes of age. I think excluding Goneril from the line of succession for murdering her mother with horrible Tudor architecture and choosing Juliet over Hermia(maybe according to notes Contessa left or some thoughts she had shared with him in private) would still be within his powers.

I've also not bothered trying to figure out the timelines and put my own spin on things within the Uberhood. I do believe Cordelia was the favorite child of Consort and Contessa, and Juliette the favorite grandchild. However, she has no desire to be the heir of the family. She loves her family and is loyal to them, but she would rather stay out of the family feud. Since she has no desire, it's up in the air. With Contessa passed, it is up to Consort to choose. Tybalt has the most interest, is the most "capable", but Consort worries he's too immature for the title. Regan has the business instincts to lead the family, but she has also been unable to produce her own heir yet and that makes Consort nervous. Kent has also expressed a desire to lead, but he lets his family walk all over him already. He'll have to prove that he can control his siblings and nieces/nephews if he wants to lead. Hermia is too free spirited and has no desire to become the heiress. Goneril was disinherited by the Capps when she married Albany behind her family's back. They really did love each other at one point, although they've had their share of fights that has driven a wedge between them. None of her children are eligible despite their desires to fall back into the Capp family's good graces.

In the Monty family, Patrizio was adamantly against having Antonio as the heir, preferring Mercutio, but he passed away before Isabella (a run in with Olive Specter). Isabella favors Antonio more, so he has inherited the family name. His marriage with Cassandra Goth also helped seal the deal as having the well-known Goth family on their side can only help their cause. Mercutio and Romeo both joined the military to build names for themselves that way. Antonio plans for Benedick to inherit the family fortune, but the Goth family is pressuring him to name Cassandra's & Antonio's unborn baby as the heir.

I have Tarlia's fixed hoods, where the birth orders make sense, and I just kind of totally ignore the stuff written about who is heir of what.
Cordelia is the oldest of Contessa and Consort's kids, making Tybalt the heir. Since Contessa was an only kid, this meant that Consort needed to take her name. This also means that I change the last names of the Danes and Normans (Regan and Goneril's families.) Kent would've been the heir, but Kent's gay, and it would be really mean (Contessa and Consort decided) to make him marry someone who could give him kids when Cordelia's prospective husband was willing to take her name and they could inherit. Same sex pregnancy is a 'recent' thing in my game, and can only be achieved by or after alien abduction: since every alien kid is required to live in Strangetown, that wasn't considered a really viable possibility for him. He's okay with being the cool uncle instead of the heir apparent. The family is a movie dynasty, and Kent is not temperamentally suited to any part of that business, instead being an elementary school teacher.

Mercutio is the heir of the Monty family, as Claudio was the eldest. This makes Romeo and Juliet a case of misbehaving younger siblings and not quite a crises of inheritance. I give Juliet a romance secondary, so they really are misbehaving, having fun with being in love with being in love, not seriously in love. Maybe they'll grow out of it, but oh, there's a cute Twikkii boy over there, and Romeo's all the way back in Veronaville . . . Oh, there's a cute downtownie girl, and Juliet's off vacationing on Twikkii . . .

I have not paid much attention to the ages of the pre-made Veronaville residents; mainly when I was setting up matches for the singles.
the days left of some of them might be explained by the Elixir aspiration reward.

about heirs/heiresses, I do not do them in my game; in past times playing, I generally moved out each character that became Adult.

Here is how I did it. I go by the ages of each sim in the actual game. Goneril is the oldest Capp, then Regan, then Kent, and then Cordelia is the youngest. Claudio is the eldest, then Antonio is the second (potentially twins), and Bianca is the youngest. Cordelia and Claudio had their children when they were young, and all of the siblings only have a gap of a few years. Since Goneril is a bit older, she started having her kids in young adulthood, and then Antonio waited until he was more settled. I made Regan, Kent, and Bianca the youngest because they have no kids, and their bios mentioning something about them being out on their own for the first time. Consort, Contessa, Patrizio, and Isabella waited a while to have their children. Also, Patrizio and Contessa are the same age (why they die around the same time), whereas Isabella and Consort are a few years younger (why the both just entered elderhood).

Regarding the heirship of both families, it is supposed to be Antonio and Goneril (then after, Benedick and Miranda). Patrizio is still alive when Claudio passes, so he was never heir, and the same is with Contessa and Cordelia. With both of them dying, that's how it's supposed to be, but it's obvious Consort and Contessa favoured Cordelia and their spawn, so they want it to be Juliette. Isabella and Patrizio favoured Claudio's spawn over Antonio and his spawn, so they want it to be Mercutio or Romeo (Romeo is smarter than Mercutio, so they are pushing him).

Cordelia and Claudio died young, so in my head, they had their children when they were teens. Cordelia and Goneril were pregnant at the same time, which is why Hermia and Miranda are pretty much the same age. Cordelia and Caliban were the young, eager fools who were too naive to live, as well as Claudio and Olivia. Goneril continued to have children (Hal and Desdemona back to back; Albany is eager), and Antonio had his twins at the same time. Overall, the age of the children are Tybalt, Mercutio (Olivia and Cordelia pregnant at the same time), Romeo and Juliette (once again, Olivia and Cordelia pregnant at the same time), Hermia, then Miranda (Goneril and Cordelia), Hal, Benedick and Beatrice (Goneril and Hero pregnant at same time), Desdemona, then Ariel.

I would point out that there's no objective reason for primogeniture to be the default for inheritance. A culture can default to making the youngest the prime heir.

Hmm... I always thought as Mercutio as the Monty heir, being that in my mind (I've never played the families in Sims 3), Claudio is the oldest son of Patrizo and Isabella. I like to think that's why Romeo decided to act out and date Juliette. Either way, in my game Mercutio graduated university and moved into the main house. He married Miranda Capp, which really irritated the Capp family, but the Monty family see it as a victory and often use it to irritate the Capps. They produced two children - Oliver and Claudia. Oliver being the next Monty heir.

However, fun fact - Claudia is currently the next in line to be the Capp heiress. Being that Juliette found herself pregnant at a young age, Consort sent her off to marry the only living Tricou descendant (Orion) and could no longer be the heir. Regan had no daughters. Gonarill's children - Miranda was engaged to Mercutio at the time - therefore wasn't allowed to be the heir, Desdemona seemed to be going in the same direction as her older sister (becoming a romance sim) and Consort didn't like that, so he decided to name Ariel the heiress and raise her himself to avoid any more "problems". Ariel married and has so far only had a son (Rebeck Capp). Which means if she fails to produce a daughter, heiress goes to Claudia Monty, although Tybalt probably won't allow that - even though he's not heir, he followed in Consort's footsteps and basically controls the Capp's since Consort died. Arranged marriages and such happen through Tybalt (he must befriend both parties) purely because he's got the loudest voice, and he will most likely name one of his twin daughters heiress instead. He's determined to get his line back into the Tybalt mainhouse one way or another.

Also - Bianca and Kent are 'dead', as far as each family was aware. They secretly fled to DV, changed their names and had twins - Egeon and Aemilia Fastolfe.