I have a problem with OFB. My businesses seem to be consistently losing money when I send other Sims to visit them.

I brought this subject up in a thread that gummilutt started about Pescado's macrotastics and OFB fixes, but it now seems unlikely that my problem is related to these mods. So it seems to make sense to start a separate thread. So I'll try to summarise the problem in this post, but include (behind spoilers) all the relevant stuff from gummilutt's thread.

When I send the business owners to their businesses, they work ok, and generally produce a small profit. But when I play other families and send Sims to these owned businesses, the business owners don't seem to be being credited with the money that Sims are spending there. However they still have to pay wages and the cost of restocking any items that are sold. The result is that my businesses all lose money, and these losses are severe in retail businesses working on tight margins. Because of these losses, I'm not playing many owned businesses, and I'm reluctant to send other Sims to them. I'll try to illustrate this with reference to the two new businesses I have created: (I'm also playing some of the pre-made businesses and Bluewater Village, and they seem to be suffering from the same problems.)

In Veronaville I'm playing Scott Moore's little grocer's shop. Scott has a clothes rack in his shop, and sending Romeo and Mercutio to buy new outfits from him nearly bankrupted him. He had to pay the wholesale price for the clothes (about §900), but never received the ca. §1,000 selling price.

In my island 'hood there is only one owned business, so the owners can't possibly buy things from other businesses (that can't be the explanation for them losing money!)! Ex-townies Liam O'Donnell and live-in steady boyfriend Aidan Jamieson run a private bandatron nightclub called "Anything Goes". The business is in Liam's name, but using a couple of hacks (anybodybemanager and hirefamilymember -- I think they're both by Squinge) I've made Aidan an employee. With 9 Creative points, Aidan mainly acts as DJ. I haven't made him manager, as I want both boys to be there when other Sims visit. Two other Sims are employed as exotic dancers (using a hacked chair from our adult sister site). When I play Liam and Aidan the club is busy and profitable. But when I send other Sims there, it loses money, although it's just as busy. Looking at the amount of money it lost, it looks as if Liam isn't getting the money from the bandatron, but is still having to pay his employees. I can see the incomings and outgoing flying up as I play, but of course it's all too much for me count! But it looks to me from the number of Sims paying at the bandatron that the club ought to be making money still.

(The last 2 paragraphs are largely extracted from my posts in gummilutt's thread.)

So, first can I establish that I actually do have a problem? The game isn't meant to work that way, is it? I know some people play with a closed system "nothing is free" economy, and I don't see how that could work if every business haemorrhaged money. Secondly do other people have similar problems? From her last post in gummilutt's thread it seems that fruitsymphony does. Thirdly, what, if anything can I (and fruitsymphony) do about it? I think it's likely a CC problem, but I only have a handful of mods directly related to OFB businesses. anybodybemanager and hirefamilymember are really only needed in my island 'hood, so I could try taking them out and play Veronaville without them. Then I could see if I can make Scott's shop profitable when I send other Sims to it. I thought this would be a way to help my business Sims, but, the way my games running, sending them customers look more like a quick path to bankruptcy. At the moment the best I can do for them is to use the FamilyFunds cheat to make up to them roughly the amount I think they've lost. I reckon fixing this is likely to be time-consuming: I'll need to do some bookkeeping for their businesses to find out just how much they are losing.

Looking forward to hearing your views.

Spoiler shows all the relevant posts from gummilutt's thread about macrotastics. Some of this I have already repeated in the summary above:

Whenever you've posted about this, you talk in rather uncertain terms. Did you go into, say, Scotts lot and note down how much money he had, then go to a household and have them go purchase an item, and then go back and check Scott?

Andrew can you consolidate your help posts and take out the 'fluff' and like gummilutt said you need to check because to me I don't see how you can tell it's loosing money. How do you know he isn't getting the money?

I had that problem when I only had up to BV on my Mac. I would send playables, and it would look like sales were going swimmingly. You'd see the customers, playable and non-, spend money and you'd see the cashiers and restockers and so on getting paid every so often. However, when I would go to my business owner's house, their bank balance would be lower than when I'd visited before. Going to the business lot did not magically restore the money as it should be. Personally, I didn't worry about it too much, and I only had ridiculously rich sims own businesses, because it was a good way to hemorrhage money out of the bank account with nothing to show in return.

I know that doesn't help solve the problem, but it does back up that it happens, at least sometimes. Perhaps something in FT, AL, or M&G fixed that particular behavior? (I haven't run any owned business yet in this current setup except for one, and that was a venue with no operating costs that made money hand over fist in the old game as well. I have never checked if funds from visits by playables accrue to the owner when I play him again, nor at what point the accrual happens -- if it happens at all.)

That would annoy me greatly. I can't remember how OFB was when it first came out. Were you patched? Andrew are you patched? I am guessing yes.

I probably was not patched. There WAS a patch available for Mac (all patches in one file), and I faithfully installed it upon every reinstall/rebuild, but as far as I can tell, it never fixed anything that it was supposed to fix. My sims couldn't primp for nearly five years, until I downloaded Pescado's mod that fixed primping. So... maybe I was? Or not...

That's exactly what's happening. Thanks for expressing the problem in 3 sentences rather than writing 3 novels about it as I tend to do! The problem for me is that some quite poor Sims are trying to run businesses, and they just can't sustain these losses. Scott borrowed several thousand Simoleons from Consort Capp, and he's supposed to repay it with interest. I'd like to hear how you get on with all EPs.

I'm sorry I haven't got figures. At first I just wasn't sure if businesses had really lost money, or whether I was just mis-remembering how much my Sims had. I'm pretty sure Scott Moore had a four figure cash balance before I sent Romeo and Mercutio to buy clothes, and he was down to two hundred and something Simoleons afterwards, but I don't have the figures to prove it. I have started to record cash balances at the end of play in Liam's club in my island hood, but I'm still running tests. I'll post again (or edit this post) when I've got more hard evidence.

In a sense it's reassuring to see that other people have had this problem, but I would like to fix it if I can. I was hoping that my Sims could run businesses as an alternative to getting jobs.

[EDIT] I am fully patched.

Yes, If someone can help fix this problem, I will be thankful and in return I will post my tutorial how to make Sims2DB work for later expansions than OFB.

Can't you just post that anyway? I'd like to be able to run Sims 2DB again but am too lazy to work it out for myself (I did look into buying the database programme it was made with (too expensive at the time)).

What is Sims 2DB?

Check out the link fruitsymphony posted.

They gave you a link.

But couldn't you do that in Publisher, if you're one of those (un)lucky people who paid for Office? (S2DB)

I posted about this problem at More Awesome Than You in 2013 in ---> this thread.<---
I decided to try again now, so I switched to my other user on my computer, before running the game. The Saved games folder was therefore in mint condition. No downloads or hacks. There were not even any downloaded lots in the lots folder. Everything should be as Maxis intended.
But Even now the problem was exactly the same.

And screen shots are here:

You can track that information in any database program or word processing program you like, or even with pen and paper. I think the point of S2DB is that it will export everything for you automatically, and in an aesthetically pleasing way.

I'm a little confused. If Johnny bought an outfit for $200 then shouldn't Ripp have gained $200 instead of $30? Also, if restocking costs the same as selling an outfit then it's impossible to make any money.

Also you seem to have taken $230 off Johnny's funds. I thought he only paid $200?

The amount at the end seems to be what you expected Ripp's house to have, so why did you say that you did have the problem?

Sorry! There was a typo in my previous post, which made it even more confusing. But you can see the figures in the screen shots.


If you look at the screen shot, -§230 appears over Johnny's head, that is the retail price, while +§30 appears over Ripp's head.



Sorry! That was a typo! I meant, that he paid §230 not §200!

The problem is that he lost money, when he should have made a small profit, from making business with Johnny.
When Ripp's household was the active household, he sold 1 outfit to Margaret Howe, he gained §30, because she paid the retail price §230 and he restocked for the wholesale price §200.
When Johnny's household was the active household, Ripp sold 1 outfit to him, Ripp lost §170, because this time, while Johnny paid §230 just like Margaret howe, Ripp only got §30, but he still restocked for §200. His household value had also decreased by §170 when I checked.

Ah okay. I see now. The typo had confused me.



So the value should be 56,980 -200 for restocking and then +230 for the sale = 57,010, but instead it was actually 56,810?

Yes, that is right.

I spotted that it must be a typo, but maybe that's because I'm having the same (or a very similar) problem myself. Looking at you profile, fruitsymphony, I notice that you don't have any EPs beyond Seasons. If that's the case, then one thing strikes me -- that all of us, who have had this problem -- you, esmeionlanthe before she got her Windows PC, and myself -- none of us had FreeTime or Apartment Life. I just wonder if Maxis could possibly have fixed it in one of those EPs. Against that, I would have thought there would sort of collective memory in the Sims 2 community that OFB had never worked before AL or FT. It's a pretty big problem, as it makes almost all businesses, especially retail ones, into loss makers, so you'd think Simmers would remember it. It will be interesting to see if it now works for esmeiolanthe with all EPs.

Thanks fruitsymphony for illustrating it with figures. It's easier to see with just one transaction in a small shop. I find it especially disappointing though that you get the problem even in a CC-free game -- I had rather hoped that it was a CC clash.

Still hoping that someone will be able to think of a fix!

I honestly haven't played enough OFB to have a clue if it works or not. I have the UC and am making a new hood (well on my way to being done) where many families have businesses, and i'll try to keep an eye out and report if it seems to be working right or not. I know Sims are supposed to be able to spend money though when you aren't playing them (guide says no more than 10%) if they show up as NPC's on a business lot while you are playing other Sims.

Nope. I have AL and M&G and discovered just yesterday that I have the same problem When a playable Sim visits another playable Sim's business and buys something, the owner doesn't get this money. It doesn't bother me awfully, because I'll just reimburse the owner and I'm anyway not averse to money cheats when I need them, but still a fix would be nice

(I don't have Uni, BV or Pets, in case it matters)

Yes, a fix would be nice! (I did my test with the UC). (But I only noticed the problem with retail shops. Maybe other types of businesses work fine?)

My business is a combination of an art museum (charging entry fee) and an art shop. The fee charging seems to be working fine, at least I see both -10 above a customer and +10 above the owner. It's selling of art objects that doesn't work.