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Theme Seasons and Celebrations - posted on 1st Oct 2017 at 1:52 PM
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Lab Assistant
Original Poster
#1 Old 3rd Dec 2014 at 4:46 PM Last edited by quesadildos : 3rd Dec 2014 at 6:28 PM.
Default Can White People Experience Racism?
White people definitely used to be quite racism and sexist (white men, typically), but now in 2014, we've definitely come a lot farther than a time when women and coloured people couldn't even vote. Although white people are the ones who are thought to be racist, racism applies to all races. It's thought that white people can only be the racist, and never the victim of racism.

racism
[rey-siz-uh m]
noun
1.
a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2.
a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3.
hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

I've definitely heard the offhand white girl joke, which most people think it okay, because, well they're just white people, right? You've probably be yelled at if it was an asian joke, ect. White people (specifically white men) aren't typically oppressed in anyway, but can racism still happen to them? I have heard some people say things like "White people are so rude," and "White people are all so stupid" which definitely doesn't apply to a whole race.

Watch this video, it's rather informative, watch it before you comment (this is what I agree with completely): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATigGdnF3Uk
What do you think?
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Top Secret Researcher
#2 Old 3rd Dec 2014 at 6:44 PM
I can't watch the video, since I'm in a public place and don't have headphones. However, I want to comment.

Of course people can be racist against white people. But there's a difference between racism and institutional racism.

If someone makes a crack at an entire race, that's racism.

If the government does not protect the rights of a race, and that race gets arrested on false charges more often, does not have crimes against them fully prosecuted, and gets refused housing and jobs, that is institutional racism.

In the Western world, white people can experience racism, but rarely institutional racism. The reason people don't care as much is that we have the institutional advantage. Racism against us means that we get called names. Racism against the other races can mean getting killed.

Make sense?
Theorist
#3 Old 3rd Dec 2014 at 7:07 PM
Right. You want to experience "racism like black people experience racism" as a white person, don't look for it in the US for the most part. Try Asia - I've heard some horror stories about racist assholes in China, for instance, not thinking my cousin was fully and entirely fluent in Chinese and acting like total racist dicks. Trying to cheat him at money, or running a fully public commentary on his perceived inferior characteristics in front of him, before finding out that he'd be the one grading their papers and was not some visiting grad student.
Spice Pony
#4 Old 3rd Dec 2014 at 11:57 PM
The long and short of it is that it quite simply depends on the definition you're using. Using the definition you gave, which is the most common definition, and the one I favour, you totally can, as it's just prejudice and/or discrimination based on race, and anyone can be the target of that. However, there is another proposed definition which stipulates that said prejudice/discrimination must be directed at a minority by a majority. In our cultural context (though not in all, as Mistermook points out), it is generally not possible for Caucasians to be on the receiving end.

Until our society reaches a consensus as to which of these definitions is correct, there is no objective answer to this question (other, of course, than the one Mistermook gave). For my further thoughts on this matter, check my response to the debate thread about the relevance of majority-targeted discrimination.
Lab Assistant
#5 Old 27th Dec 2014 at 4:13 AM
Racism is in reference to a group of people in power vs the other.. so no generally speaking a white person cannot directly and individually experience racism...prejudice and discrimination yes but generally speaking not racism. Some may come particularly close (they may have black family members etc.)... A good movie to help people put things in perspective on how race relations differ in this country ....is calle "White man's Burden"...it's a little extreme (and old from the 80's early 90's) but it gives you a general idea.
Test Subject
#6 Old 4th Jan 2015 at 5:03 AM
Of course they can experience racism. anyone can experience it or be racist themselves. Racism isn't exclusive to the U.S. and nor is being racist exclusive to White people (In fact, assuming so just seems prejudice in itself to put it nicely), so it really depends on the location as experiences will vary from person to person. Racism means judging someone based off skin color and can vary from just rude remarks or wanting to stay away to even violence. There have even been some cases where White people are targeted and killed (including this more resent game some people playing called the knock out game, where certain people are targeted and attacked by someone trying to knock them out). So yes, it has happened.As I said, experiences will vary and can't assume that they can't be victims of hate crimes or racism either, as anyone can.

Also very few people are in power and even have any kind of power, most of them are rich it seems.

I am mixed myself and seen and experienced different forms of racism and had slurs thrown at me, including things aimed at people from certain European countries/orgins. Not going to list everything people said; but I been bullied for a lot of things (even for how my eyes look and hair, etc...I tend to take after my dad more though have lighter skin).
Field Researcher
#7 Old 14th Mar 2015 at 8:30 PM
Some rough estimate states that 60% of the earths population is asian,whilst only 17% are "white" strictly speaking,so from the "proposed definition which stipulates that said prejudice/discrimination must be directed at a minority by a majority" posted by ewwnk7 (3 posts from here),only asians can´t experience racism,and only asian people can be racists per se. lol.

"The only reason people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory. "
Née whiterider
staff: administrator
#8 Old 14th Mar 2015 at 9:24 PM
That was a bad straw man. Unless you really believe that the world is a single global society with a single global government, and globally consistent social structures.

Picking up on what The Lab Rat said, "white" is a term which encompasses a lot of different groups. A white American or Brit, for example, in their home country, does not experience racism. But a white Pole in the UK is almost guaranteed to experience significant racism. So it all depends on whether you're honestly wondering about racial organisation and relations in another part of the world, or whether you're thinking about "reverse racism".

What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact.
Theorist
#9 Old 15th Mar 2015 at 12:09 AM
Like it's even a question. Everyone can experience racism as victim in the wrong circumstances. Of course, white people like me, too..

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Theorist
#10 Old 15th Mar 2015 at 3:04 AM
My parents face racism from Koreans, specifically, who threatened to call my parents racist if they didn't get extra discounts for bread and plumbing servicing. Sadly, the prevalent minority in our town is Korean and most of them look at me with disdain for my naïveté and blissfully unaware being.

It confused me to no end when people assume whites were racist when my family experienced firsthand the pain of assumptions based on appearance. To be flowery: Give me the book and let me have a read. I'll judge it better on assessment.

http://richinc.boards.net <--- My forum. Currently has a general talk board and a cooking board. Check back for more boards... please don't hurt me.
Alchemist
#11 Old 15th Mar 2015 at 6:37 AM Last edited by SuicidiaParasidia : 15th Mar 2015 at 6:47 AM.
The most common form of outspoken racism I've personally encountered was others of differing ethnicities assuming I'm racist because I'm white. Because, apparently, the idea of only whites being racists is disturbingly common.
It's not true, in fact it's so one-dimensional and thoughtless that it's almost comical, but it's common.

Other than that, hugbug993 pretty much hit the nail on the head.

"The more you know, the sadder you get."~ Stephen Colbert
"Science literacy is a vaccine against the charlatans of the world that would exploit your ignorance."~ Neil DeGrasse Tyson
"I'm not going to censor myself to comfort your ignorance." ~ Jon Stewart
Banned
#12 Old 15th Mar 2015 at 7:36 AM
I've already been racially abused by a bunch of Y10's over my hair - they call me a skinhead. But they should never mention the lump on the back of my head. Improper calcium deposit?
Lab Assistant
#13 Old 15th Mar 2015 at 9:15 AM
I liked/agreed with the things that were talked about in the video. I very much feel that people should get things/be awarded positions based on merit. At the same time, I think that it's healthy to take notice of differences between cultures, however I dont think its okay or healthy to discriminate any one. I think the best way to eliminate racism is to be more open-minded and accepting of who other people are. I love learning about people that come from countries other than my home country and its interesting to learn about their beliefs/values/traditions. My group of friends vary a lot in their nationalities, and each person's nationality gives them something unique to bring to the group. All of them have experienced racism first hand from people who are different from themselves. It doesn't seem to me that one group is targeted more than another, but it can happen sometimes.

In my own personal experiences, being a caucasian female, I feel like some (not all) people of minority in the U.S. use racism as an excuse when they weren't picked for something. There have been many times where I've heard "so-and-so didn't hire me because they're racist", when in reality, the person just wasn't best for whatever it was they wanted to do. I think it's wrong to use racism to justify what is really a short-coming. At the same time, I think that while diversity in the workforce in the U.S. has improved its still not where it needs to be. There are many places that I've shopped at/done business with that seem like there's no diversity among the races of the people who work there. For example at Victoria's Secret I hardly ever see any races other than Caucasian and African Americans working there, and being a major retailer one would assume that people of all nationalities are applying for the jobs. I mean, when was the last time you (as an american) walked past a Victoria's Secret or Abercrombie and saw someone of middle eastern or asian descent working there? For me, it's hardly ever, which is unfortunate.

Of course racism still exists here in america, but one also has to realize its not just when white people are involved. In the city I live in there's racism taking place between latinos and african americans too. I've experienced racist comments from people of many different races, it doesn't seem to me like there are only 2 specific groups of people involved.

I dont know about other countries, but I think that the most mis-represented group of people in America right now are people of middle eastern descent. I'm very upset with how the media here makes people from that part of the world seem like monsters and say that their religions are full of hate and murder. Some Americans try to justify they're racism with the events that took place on 9/11, and seem to quickly forget that the Oklahoma City bombing was perpetrated by a white american.... I think every religion/race has extremists and it's not right to judge an entire group by the actions of individuals. Some of my friends are from those countries and are very nice, moral individuals. It sucks to see them judged by ignorant people....

It does sit wrong with some people, but I do think its okay to engage in racial comedy. Meaning it's okay to laugh about the differences between cultures. I mean, the stuff that makes us different is pretty hysterical sometimes. However I do find a fine line between being comedic and being racist. If someone is going to make jokes about other races/countries, it should always be in a light-hearted manner and there should be a pretty equal amt of jokes about all races, meaning not to single out a particular group. Also, you should know what things are or are not acceptable to say to people of other cultures. If there is something particularly important to them, you shouldn't make jokes about it, for example, who their higher power is. Furthermore, some things said about different cultures are true, I know I laugh my hind parts off when someone makes a white joke that is based in truth. I also laughed hysterically last night when a muslim comedian was making a joke about being confused about how many times to kiss a person when greeting them depending on which country in the middle east he was in. It also has to do with someone's intention though. This can be a very grey area, it's hard because if someone were to tell a race-based joke, one person of that race might find it funny while another might not. It also depends on the environment you're in. I should also add that if someone did make a race-based joke, even if they had good intentions when making it, should apologize to anyone offended and be serious in their apology; and if you dont know what the right place/time is to make a joke about anybody, then DONT!

Bottom line: No person should tolerate racism, even not directed at their own race. We should all support each other regardless of what we look like or which religion we choose to follow. The media also needs to more accurately represent other cultures. And, last but not least, more people of hispanic blood need to set up restaurants in America, cuz' boy do I enjoy some authentic spanish food, empanadas do NOT last long on my plate
Banned
#14 Old 15th Mar 2015 at 10:53 AM
Great, an actual racist is disagreeing the posts for no reason. (Can't be bothered to edit in)
Instructor
#15 Old 15th Mar 2015 at 6:38 PM
I love a lot of the points made in this thread. I often have to hear my friends use the term "reverse racism" and try not to explode from the sheer redundancy of that phrase.
I try to listen to both sides as often as I can, and I can see why they'd call it that; since whites typically make up a large majority (depending on your place of residence,) having someone make a racist crack at them sounds unheard of.

Nonetheless, racism is racism. Period. I don't see how some can argue and say that white people cannot experience racism. In terms of institutionalized racism, I could perhaps see that point being made. But blatant racism can affect anyone, whether you be black, white, hispanic or purple. Trying to classify racism geared towards white people as something separate is not only pointless but also a racist statement itself. It's basically saying that "Because X people are a majority, they can't be affected by racism!"

I go to a public city school, and I'd be lying if I never witnessed racism amongst high school students. I've had things said to me about being " a little cracker girl," and I've heard my white peers say the N word like it's just another adjective in their vocabulary. Racism can affect us all, no matter who or where you're from.

ΦΜ. Love, honor, truth.
Never dull your shine for someone else.

Hullabaloo - A Custom 'Hood
Née whiterider
staff: administrator
#16 Old 15th Mar 2015 at 10:32 PM
The point, though, is that institutional and structural racism is much more harmful than the racism of individuals. When one person says something racist to or about you, that can be upsetting or even frightening. When you live in a society which is systematically racist towards you, that changes every aspect of your life, takes away opportunities, shapes the way you think about yourself and your community, and makes violence against you more acceptable. So I guess the point isn't necessarily that white people in a situation where they have racial dominance can't experience racism, it's more that the racism they experience has absolutely no place in a serious discussion about racism.

It's kind of like walking into a discussion of the destruction caused by TB, HIV and malaria in sub-Saharan Africa, getting up on stage and announcing "One time I had the flu for TWO WHOLE WEEKS."

What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact.
Theorist
#17 Old 16th Mar 2015 at 5:01 AM
Besides this assumption of too many people (white people can't face racism as a victim), there's another related to racism which annoys me. Although it's not racism, but they think/say it is. There are a bunch of people from mainly certain minorities here who play the ''racism card'' every time things don't go their way or whatever. Not every negative situation were the minority person is the ''victim'' is racism. Like it can't be something like their annoying personality or behaviour. Yes, of course there's racism (unfortunately), but there's a whole line between racism and just negative respons on behaviour and personality. Saying it's racism every single fucking time while it isn't is for whiners...

The gorgeous Tina (TS3) and here loving family available for download here.
Field Researcher
#18 Old 16th May 2015 at 5:18 AM
As many others have said, of course white people can be victims of racism and most particularly prejudism. There is the stereotype attached to white people that they're arrogant, power-hungry and racist by nature.

We currently have a huge conflict in Denmark between Danes (genetic Danes) and Arab immigrants. It wasn't the sudden, intense immigration that brought this on, but rather the government beginning to make a special set of rules for immigrants (and only immigrants of Arabic descent), that gave them advantages over Danish people. Such as pork now being illegal on several schools, Danish flags being illegal in some places, because it has a cross in it (THWAT?!), or a new law being passed that if you're unemployed and a job, requiring your qualifications becomes avaliable anywhere in the country, you're obligated to spend a fortune on moving to that part of the country and take the job. That is, unless you're an Arabic immigrant.

So basically, the conflict was caused by odd government choices. They couldn't have done more to create a huge gap between the two groups, if they had made it their mission. And so, Arabs have come to feel as though they're in a country that wants nothing more than to get rid of them, the stereotype that all young Arab guys are violent criminals are causing young Arabs to be in conflict between what they want to do, and what's pretty much come to be expected of them (if you do the time, you might as well do the crime, right?) as well as Danes feeling scared and renegaded, from having their culture and Christian traditions (whether they're Christians or not) being altered so suddenly.

And so, my brother and I experienced the following on the evening of mother's day: We were walking to our mother's apartment in what is typically called "an immigrant neighbourhood". Two young Arab guys, perhaps 15-18 years old had been walking in front of us for a few minutes. We could feel their unease and they would occassionally look back at us. We just kept talking casually as we had the whole way, hoping that it would make them understand that we were just.... there and nothing else. Once we had gotten into the neighbourhood, they turned around and one of them said "Hey, you live here?" I answered "No, our mother does. We're just visiting her." then the other said "There's a lot of 'perkere' here, huh?" (Perkere is a Danish racist word against Arabs). I just stared in disbelief, cause I wasn't expecting it and swear words/offensive words tend to rub me the wrong way, so I was shocked hearing an Arab basically referring to themselves with that word. After a short pause, my brother said "there has to be room for that too." The guys smiled and said "That's how it's supposed to be! Great!" to which my brother replied "We're not all racist assholes, I'm just saying" and we all parted well. Said see ya later, have a nice evening etc.

The point of that was that prejudism isn't always brought on by hatred, as most of course already knows, but worry and defense. Sad as it is, it was safer for those boys to assume that all Danes were "out to get them", because it's less risky to be wrong about that, than being wrong about the opposite option.

The biggest white-racism examples I've seen, have been from American television, honestly. I remember an episode in Dr. Phil, where a black family had disowned one of their sons, because he had married a white woman and he "acted white" (in this case, meaning he wore regular jeans and a buttoned up shirt, spoke plain American so to speak and worked an office job, all of which are apparently race-defined). It bothered me a lot, because the situation itself and the offensive things the family said would have caused an explosion of offense and outrage everywhere, if it had been a white family disowning a white son for having married a black woman and "acting black". I really don't like double standards.

One can argue that because Denmark has more white people than Arab people, racism is more dangerous to an Arab being the victim of it, than the other way around, but in the case of Danish sociaty, that hasn't been the case. I can't recall a single case where an Arab was killed/attacked by a Dane, whereas there has been several cases of the opposite. Luckily, we have very few murder cases, but increased the past few years. It's most often Arabs attacking Arabs and Danes attacking Danes though. Or maybe it's all just random and coinsidental.
Forum Resident
#19 Old 16th May 2015 at 3:57 PM Last edited by mithrak_nl : 16th May 2015 at 4:08 PM.
Any race can experience racism. I thought that would be obvious. I see the ability for maintaining double standards as one of the basic human characteristics. It is also not something of the past and with every new generation it has to be fought against. Large groups of well meaning people can be oblivious of this. I think this goes with anything regarding ethics/morals.

Racism, torture, genocide, war, sorry to be the partypooper here, but I am afraid that this will be a reoccuring thing and not exclusive to any race as instigator (not sure about word). And the people who will do it, will make up excuses for why it is ok in their case (double standard crap).

EDIT: Sometimes I find it odd how people from the 'civilised' (lol) countries can look down on 'uncivilised' practices in other countries. It is as if those people seem to forget that ethics (sorry I am not sure about the general english word for the whole topic like ethics, human rights, morals etc) is not like technology. Technology builds upon old technology and keeps improving. While morals have to be fought for by every generation. Double standards (which I see as slippery slopes) pop up all the time and most of the time are fought against fortunately, but sometimes not. Also in so called civilised countries. The basic characteristics of people are the same in every country.

EDIT2 : This probably reads as very cynical. Mainly because I forgot to mention that there are always more people who are willing to fight double standards. But sometimes they just have to be woken up I guess.
Instructor
#20 Old 7th Jun 2015 at 12:57 AM
Yes. though typically it seems to be reverse-discrimination. The most common stereotype I experience, being white, is the belief that all white people are racists. I get called racist from time to time (when I disagree with someone of another ethnicity), even though I'd still disagree if a Caucasian brought it up (and I do that a lot, too). It seems to be some sort of perceived "automatic win" tactic where they just call the person racist instead of arguing their point (attack the argument... not the person).
Instructor
#21 Old 7th Jun 2015 at 1:58 AM
We are of one race, the Human race.
The different in our skin colors is unfortunately in our minds coupled with stereotypes or bad personal experiences with other people who were rude towards us.

I was at church one day and felt rather annoyed at one woman who I associated with someone completely different, because of how she dressed and spoke.
She was of a different nation to the other person. Both her and the other person were similar and that was a part of why I was irritated with her, (It was also that I didn't agree with what she was doing in the church at that time.)

I disliked that person not entirely based on what I knew about her.
I actually have friends from her country, so it wasn't racism but more of stereotyping.

I apologize as this is more on stereotyping than whether "white" people can be victims of rascim
Test Subject
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7th Jun 2015 at 8:12 AM
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Test Subject
#22 Old 11th Jun 2015 at 5:55 AM
Um...
Quote:
Originally Posted by quesadildos
White people definitely used to be quite racism and sexist (white men, typically), but now in 2014, we've definitely come a lot farther than a time when women and coloured people couldn't even vote. Although white people are the ones who are thought to be racist, racism applies to all races. It's thought that white people can only be the racist, and never the victim of racism.

racism
[rey-siz-uh m]
noun
1.
a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2.
a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3.
hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

I've definitely heard the offhand white girl joke, which most people think it okay, because, well they're just white people, right? You've probably be yelled at if it was an asian joke, ect. White people (specifically white men) aren't typically oppressed in anyway, but can racism still happen to them? I have heard some people say things like "White people are so rude," and "White people are all so stupid" which definitely doesn't apply to a whole race.

Watch this video, it's rather informative, watch it before you comment (this is what I agree with completely): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATigGdnF3Uk
What do you think?


We-el, see, I didn't watch the video, but let me just say: Racism is not something to mess about with. In South Africa, (I lived there) racism is horribly severe; dark-skinned people treat lighter-skinned people with disrespect, which I find horrible. The worst, is that it also goes the other way around! And teacher/student racism happens alot in which the children refuse to tell their elders in fear of the teacher hunting them down, or the teacher afraid of the parent of hunting them down. It also affects emotions drastically, in which most commit suicide. Just saying, it is definitely not something to joke about. Also, be careful of what you say to another, as they might take offence and call the cops. In my oppinion, this is what sets people of different skins apart: money. Darker-skinned people in South Africa are poorer due to "lack of jobs" yet you see loads of people with "help wanted signs". Disclaimer: this is an OPPINION.

❇ And then I said, "Oatmeal, are you crazy?"
Scholar
#23 Old 12th Jun 2015 at 12:30 PM
Have any of you ever come across those tests and quizzes that ask for your origins but they don't give you the choice to opt out of it? Its as if it would somehow affect your result. Its also really awkward when there's a bunch of categories that you're supposed to choose from, but you don't fit in any, so you have to ask the teacher something like "Hey, what am I, what do I put?".
Its especially awkward when you go back to your home country and people look at you like you're an idiot when you're not fluent in your mother tongue, but you speak other languages better because you've actually had to use them more in your life. They would then tell you that you should be ashamed of yourself for not putting said language first. Then there are the other people who also talk to you like you're an idiot when you tell them where you're from. Or like when you go into a shop, the shop keeper stares at you like a hawk. They stare at you, almost accusing you of stealing. All you did was set foot into the shop to see if they had the thing you needed (but didn't) so you left. All this just because you're a little different.
Test Subject
#24 Old 22nd Jun 2015 at 5:44 AM
Default This Guy Knows What He/She Is Talking About
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noa1500
Have any of you ever come across those tests and quizzes that ask for your origins but they don't give you the choice to opt out of it? Its as if it would somehow affect your result. Its also really awkward when there's a bunch of categories that you're supposed to choose from, but you don't fit in any, so you have to ask the teacher something like "Hey, what am I, what do I put?".
Its especially awkward when you go back to your home country and people look at you like you're an idiot when you're not fluent in your mother tongue, but you speak other languages better because you've actually had to use them more in your life. They would then tell you that you should be ashamed of yourself for not putting said language first. Then there are the other people who also talk to you like you're an idiot when you tell them where you're from. Or like when you go into a shop, the shop keeper stares at you like a hawk. They stare at you, almost accusing you of stealing. All you did was set foot into the shop to see if they had the thing you needed (but didn't) so you left. All this just because you're a little different.


Like me! My home language and mother tounge is Spanish, but you should see how the people watch me as if I'm carrying a box of TNT orsomething when I go grocery shopping! Don't get me started on how the teller talks to my mom when she's paying! Not saying it's racism, because they don't treat us badly, but just because we're Latins (or " Latinos") people talk to us slowly as if we don't speak english! That needs to change.

❇ And then I said, "Oatmeal, are you crazy?"
Instructor
#25 Old 22nd Jun 2015 at 3:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noa1500
Have any of you ever come across those tests and quizzes that ask for your origins but they don't give you the choice to opt out of it? Its as if it would somehow affect your result. Its also really awkward when there's a bunch of categories that you're supposed to choose from, but you don't fit in any, so you have to ask the teacher something like "Hey, what am I, what do I put?"


I recently did an AP exam and I felt very, very uncomfortable when it asked my ethnicity. I live in Canada (and most of my ancestors were born in Canada), so I wanted to say Canadian. Unfortunately, it didn't WANT to know my ethnicity, it wanted to know my skin colour. I told the proctor that I thought the question was inappropriate and he agreed, but I still had to choose.
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