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Nysha's New Creators for November - posted on 1st Dec 2017 at 3:00 AM
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Instructor
Original Poster
#1 Old 17th Jun 2015 at 5:13 PM
Default Is It Okay to Call Your Pets Children?
This is a very hot-topic debate nowadays, whether or not people with pets should be able to call their pets their children.

My family finds it highly offensive (particularly my mother), since raising a cat or dog is nothing like raising a child.

My lists of reasons:
Cats and dogs stop growing quite early, so there is no progression through their childhood into adult autonomy.
(For the mothers out there) You don't need to birth a pet (of course, the same can be said for adopted children).
Pets are not the same species as humans.
When it comes to "parenting" a pet, you don't have to deal with: babysitting (except long-term, in the case of dogs), school, extra-curriculars, teaching responsibility/morals, inquisitive young minds, teaching about death, having "the talk" (puberty - particularly for parents with daughters), your kid(s)'s love life (and probably heartbreak), helping their job hunt, university/college (and often the tuition associated with it).
The cost of having a pet is typically (TYPICALLY) laughable when compared to the cost of having a kid.

Thoughts?
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Instructor
#2 Old 17th Jun 2015 at 5:56 PM
In my mind, the mind of a man who has never had pets besides a couple canary birds when I was 6, I find it unthinkable that a person could relate to a pet as if it was their child.
That said, I know that many lonely people get great benefit and company from their pets. My own grandmother, who lives alone in an isolated house, has a dog that means a lot to her.
I acknowledge that I don't have much experience with pets, therefore my opinion might be a little biased, but I have nothing against people who treat pets with the same respect they treat people. It only gets a little weird when, you know, they dress them up like dolls and have "conversations" with them in public.

Me, me, me against them, me against enemies, me against friends, somehow they all seem to become one, a sea full of sharks and they all smell blood.
Mad Poster
#3 Old 17th Jun 2015 at 7:20 PM Last edited by simmer22 : 17th Jun 2015 at 7:31 PM.
Getting a pet is something you do for company, protection, or for carrying out a service. Getting a child is for carrying on the family name, and for surviving as a species.

A pet isn't a child. It can be a valued family member, but the thing is that most types of pets would've gladly run away if they got the chance, except if they're trained to be loyal enough to stay. Under normal circumstances, a child is someone you raise before they're ready to leave home and care for themselves and their own family.

Most pets are also not treated on an equal basis as their owner or other family members. Cats may think they're the boss in the family, but most other pets treat their owner as a 'master' or 'boss', and the rest don't get a say because they're locked up or they don't have much in the way of free will. Children on the other hand have more free will, and their parents are more in the role of 'protectors' and 'caregivers'. How people treat their pets differently from their kids is also an argument. Most people don't put leaches on their kids (most people...), or feed them on the floor (even if some toddlers will eat anything that falls down), or put them in cages (except for baby beds and playpens - but that's just for a short period). You wouldn't ride your kid like you'd do with a horse. You wouldn't keep a child in an aquarium or cage for the rest of their life to have something to look at, like with a bird or fish.

Considering that most pets have a fairly quick childhood, they're fully grown adults for the most part of their life, and in most cases pets don't live as long as humans. Losing a pet can be traumatic, but most people learn to deal with it quicker than if a human family member or friend dies, often done by getting a new pet.

One of my aunts almost treats her pets as if they're her kids, talking about herself as the dogs' mother. I find it a bit creepy. Also, the dogs are not well-behaved in my eyes, and seem a little 'spoiled' (they love to run after me or jump up, and since I'm skeptical to dogs this bothers me, particularly because my aunt is one of those "he just wants to say hello" dog owners - luckily I hardly ever see them). She doesn't have kids of her own, though.

As for purse-dogs in silly costumes, being treated as a spoiled little baby, I don't like it. Dogs aren't meant to sit in a purse all day, and they have fur for a reason.
Instructor
Original Poster
#4 Old 17th Jun 2015 at 7:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by simmer22
Most people don't put leaches on their kids (most people...),


Yay for the kid leash!

Theorist
#5 Old 17th Jun 2015 at 8:50 PM
If we're talking legally, like being able to claim pets as a dependent on your taxes to get tax breaks, then no, I'd be totally against that.

But if someone just wants to call their pet their "kids", which I know many people (mostly childless) who want to do that, it doesn't really bother me. I think most people understand objectively that raising a child is nothing like caring for a pet, but they also form a bond with their pet and especially if they don't have children, the pet kind of fills that void for them. So if people want to call their pet their "kids", well, it's a bit odd to me, but they can do whatever they want, it's not hurting anyone. Live and let live, you know.

Resident wet blanket.
Instructor
#6 Old 18th Jun 2015 at 10:40 AM
I am not sure what your issue is here? I mean, is it just people saying that their pet is their kid? Or is it something else? Because in that case, I don't think you're supposed to take it very seriously. Some people don't have any real kids, just their pet. And to them, it's the closest thing to a child they will ever have. Most people with pets call themselves their pet's parent. And I don't see anything wrong with that. I really don't think anyone thinks that a pet and a child is actually the same thing.
Top Secret Researcher
#7 Old 18th Jun 2015 at 11:21 AM
I don't think this is "a very hot-topic debate nowadays" as I have never heard anyone mention it. Pretty sure it's just an issue in your family pikeman101.

Anyone who is truly bothered by other people calling their pets children should do something more worthwhile with their time like get a hobby or volunteer somewhere (perhaps an animal shelter to see all the sad animals that want affection).

A parent/child relationship is based on things like care, love, guidance, support and protection. This is also the same for human/pet relationships. Of course there are different experiences if you have human children vs pets, but every human parent/child relationship is unique in some way as well.

Behaviours and intention matter but names don't. A dog by any other name would smell as sweet!

I wouldn't put a lot of effort into getting it transported.
Instructor
Original Poster
#8 Old 19th Jun 2015 at 12:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by simbalena
I don't think this is "a very hot-topic debate nowadays" as I have never heard anyone mention it. Pretty sure it's just an issue in your family pikeman101.


I've been seeing it all over Facebook recently...
Theorist
DELETED POST
20th Jun 2015 at 4:52 AM
This message has been deleted by Viktor86.
Top Secret Researcher
#9 Old 20th Jun 2015 at 11:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viktor86
In human perspective, a pet always will stay at a baby level in dependency and vulnerability and mostly a relatively short term part of your life, while a child normally grows up into an adult, after and during a period where you can teach and form this person until the end of time.


it is true that pets usually are completely dependent on their owner but their mind isn't the mind of a child. Their brains develop just like human brains.

How do you define "relatively short term"? If you had a child that died at 10 is that "short term" and therefore less significant that a child who outlives you?

I wouldn't put a lot of effort into getting it transported.
Theorist
#10 Old 20th Jun 2015 at 4:49 PM
I'm honestly more concerned (going back ages in the forums) by the people who say they'd save their animal's life before they'd save another human being's' life. Words are ephemeral sorts of things mostly, they've vanished the moment after you utter them. Actions though...
Theorist
DELETED POST
20th Jun 2015 at 8:33 PM
This message has been deleted by Viktor86.
Alchemist
#11 Old 21st Jun 2015 at 1:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viktor86
I don't really care if people call their pets their kids. But I can't understand why you would. In human perspective, a pet always will stay at a baby level in dependency and vulnerability and mostly a relatively short term part of your life, while a child normally grows up into an adult, after and during a period where you can teach and form this person until the end of time. Prhaps especially when you created it yourself, but that's difficult to judge as a non parent.

I can understand you really love your pets like family or in some cases even more, like I do. I really enjoy the existence of animals and hate animal bullying by beastie humans, abuse etc, but I would probably choose humans over animals..


Actually, I'd like to point out that a baby is completely dependent upon their parents for everything in life spanning from months into years: Human babies can't even hold their own head up for a solid 6 or so months after birth. Human babies can't move, form words, defend themselves against danger, feed themselves, clean themselves, or even generally comprehend what's going on around them. Animal babies can usually do much more than that, much more quickly after birth. (Horses are up and walking around and nursing within minutes, which would be like having a human baby that could walk out of the delivery room and get itself a bottle of milk from the fridge.) An animal grows up quicker and can be taught basic mannerisms much sooner than a human child, as well, like not taking dumps on the carpet. And you don't have to wipe their asses, either.
Cats, dogs, and other such animals can easily provide for themselves in the absence of humans. We choose to fill that role when we house domesticated animals, but we aren't necessary. Look at any feral cat colonies or dog packs; They can feed, protect, breed, and generally fend for themselves.
Additionally, a well-cared for pet can easily span 20+ years before they die. My cat is 16 years old, but you wouldn't know it by looking at him. He still looks like he's a couple of years old, and as healthy. Lifespan isn't a sure thing, ask anyone who's lost a child to an accident, health problem, or worse.

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Instructor
Original Poster
#12 Old 21st Jun 2015 at 2:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuicidiaParasidia
An animal grows up quicker and can be taught basic mannerisms much sooner than a human child, as well, like not taking dumps on the carpet. And you don't have to wipe their asses, either.


You can't teach a dog not to poop on the carpet. Not at all. You have to bring them outside.
Now what dammit?
staff: moderator
#13 Old 21st Jun 2015 at 11:44 AM
SuicidiaParasidia said they could be taught manners sooner than a human child and not that they knew automatically and that is true - dogs instinctively don't want to foul their nest though initially you have to show them where it is appropriate to go.

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Inventor
#14 Old 25th Jun 2015 at 6:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GnatGoSplat
If we're talking legally, like being able to claim pets as a dependent on your taxes to get tax breaks, then no, I'd be totally against that.

But if someone just wants to call their pet their "kids", which I know many people (mostly childless) who want to do that, it doesn't really bother me. I think most people understand objectively that raising a child is nothing like caring for a pet, but they also form a bond with their pet and especially if they don't have children, the pet kind of fills that void for them. So if people want to call their pet their "kids", well, it's a bit odd to me, but they can do whatever they want, it's not hurting anyone. Live and let live, you know.


I agree completely. I think it's odd and have never done it myself. However, I couldn't care less if other people do it. I'm very live and let live.
Top Secret Researcher
#15 Old 25th Jun 2015 at 8:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pikeman101
You can't teach a dog not to poop on the carpet. Not at all. You have to bring them outside.


You can't teach a child to use a toilet without taking them to the toilet.

I wouldn't put a lot of effort into getting it transported.
Top Secret Researcher
#16 Old 25th Jun 2015 at 9:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pikeman101
You can't teach a dog not to poop on the carpet. Not at all. You have to bring them outside.


You can teach a cat to use the toilet.

My MTS writing group, The Story Board
Mad Poster
#17 Old 29th Jun 2015 at 4:03 PM Last edited by RoseCity : 1st Jul 2015 at 1:25 PM.
I think it's okay to call a pet your child - that's your business. I don't like it when someone else refers to me as my pet's 'mom' - like when I'm at the vet and they say to my dog or cat - 'Here's Mom!' But in the grand scheme of things and in the interest of choosing one's battles, I'm not going to say anything to them about it. I have plenty of other things to get pissed off about.
Lab Assistant
#18 Old 30th Jun 2015 at 10:01 AM
I call my cat 'my little baby' sometimes when we snuggle on the couch. but thats a kind of endearment really- I am very much aware that she is not my real baby. I would probably not do it in front of others but if other people do it, it does not bother me. As someone up thread already said: Live and let live.
Lab Assistant
#19 Old 10th Jul 2015 at 8:08 AM
I suppose. My German Shepherd is my brother after all
Field Researcher
#20 Old 13th Jul 2015 at 4:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuicidiaParasidia
Actually, I'd like to point out that a baby is completely dependent upon their parents for everything in life spanning from months into years: Human babies can't even hold their own head up for a solid 6 or so months after birth. Human babies can't move, form words, defend themselves against danger, feed themselves, clean themselves, or even generally comprehend what's going on around them. Animal babies can usually do much more than that, much more quickly after birth. (Horses are up and walking around and nursing within minutes, which would be like having a human baby that could walk out of the delivery room and get itself a bottle of milk from the fridge.) An animal grows up quicker and can be taught basic mannerisms much sooner than a human child, as well, like not taking dumps on the carpet. And you don't have to wipe their asses, either.
Cats, dogs, and other such animals can easily provide for themselves in the absence of humans. We choose to fill that role when we house domesticated animals, but we aren't necessary. Look at any feral cat colonies or dog packs; They can feed, protect, breed, and generally fend for themselves.
Additionally, a well-cared for pet can easily span 20+ years before they die. My cat is 16 years old, but you wouldn't know it by looking at him. He still looks like he's a couple of years old, and as healthy. Lifespan isn't a sure thing, ask anyone who's lost a child to an accident, health problem, or worse.


Yes I think people often underestimate animals. Emotionally they have a dependence on us but biologically they'd do just fine if given the chance.
They even say a dog's mouth is cleaner. I'm not sure how true that is considering their breath but it does seem like my dogs teeth are doing better than mine (i'm jealous of his teeth) maybe it's the food they eat though.

You do have to wipe their butt if they have long hair though because sometimes it gets stuck (I learned this the hard way yuck). The only other thing I disagree with is I'm not sure if they could span 20 plus years. It sounds like you're doing well with your cat but I've not known an animal who has lasted that long. Horses but not dogs or cats. Nevertheless my dog is 7 and he acts like's a puppy a lot of times. It's crazy. I guess it's possible because they say rabbits only last 2-3 and my last two rabbits were 6 before they passed. But yes lifespan isn't a sure thing.

My pets are my children because I do not wish to have any babies...at least not with most guys and I'm certainly not in a rush. I do feed them take them out to potty and I do tend to spoil them but also discipline them so that's why I say that. I care about them and care for them in that way. But they're a more intelligent form of children so they are more than my children. They are also my friends. Dogs/cats can't speak English but they CAN understand it. They also have abilities that we don't. They can be trained to find things and protect us from danger much faster than a person can. The only reason it can be hard to train a dog/cat is because they sometimes don't want to listen or you're not listening to them. You just have to get on their level and know how to talk to them. You can even teach a rabbit a lot of things it just might take longer than a dog/cat. I think it's stupid when people constantly baby talk them or put them in clothes so that's certainly not something I do.
Lab Assistant
#21 Old 26th Jul 2015 at 10:53 PM
Default a Little true story
We got a dog , took it to a Vet. for a wee check up,
The Vet, (a grown man)
educated for a total of 7 to 9 years ( 3-5 years undergraduate plus 4 years of veterinary school)
said to the dog, after it's check up,

" now go to your Mummy".

I have children, I gave birth to them.
I breast fed them.

I did not birth to the dog. A DOG DID
I not breastfeed the dog. A DOG DID
You would think a Vet would know that.

Just saying.......
Top Secret Researcher
#22 Old 27th Jul 2015 at 6:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimLaReine
I did not birth to the dog. A DOG DID
I not breastfeed the dog. A DOG DID
You would think a Vet would know that.

Just saying.......


You say that like giving birth and breastfeeding is the only thing that makes you a mother. Do you think adoptive parents are any less of a parent to their children because they didn't shoot bodily fluids out at the right times?

My MTS writing group, The Story Board
Instructor
#23 Old 27th Jul 2015 at 11:33 AM
Adoption papers.
You adopt a dog and it becomes your responsibility according to the official documents.

You adopt a child and they also because your responsibility.

They both are yours to love, care for and protect. Calling pets your children seems weird in my opinion because they are a different kind of creature. But then to be honest, I have never really thought about it.

In saying that though, if being adopted means they can be called children then my feline is my brother and my canine is my sister. Like I need more siblings!
Test Subject
#24 Old 27th Jul 2015 at 6:32 PM Last edited by SimPersia : 27th Jul 2015 at 6:43 PM.
Default Lactation, Birth, Adoption and Motherhood a precursor or No. Pup or Child..... hmmmmm
The word ONLY is not in that little true story about The Vet.

Likely the family ALSO has Breastfed their Fostered and Adopted children as well . Wet Nursed Babies, Pumped Breast Milk for Premature Infants, Donated Breast Milk for Cancer Patients. while the mammary glands were "shooting bodily fluids out at the right times". (commonly known as Breastfeeding, Lactating, Nursing, Suckling, Giving Suck) (did you know that women can "shoot bodily fluids out at the right times" from puberty well past menopause,non stop. Thus the right times can be very lengthy indeed ! )
Men can also "shoot bodily fluids out at the right time". ( by which one means Lactate ).



perhaps the actual point of the little true story is that the pup is not her offspring, brood or progeny.
It is a dog's offspring, brood or progeny. A pup, not a baby.


"You say that like giving birth and breastfeeding is the only thing that makes you a mother. Do you think adoptive parents are any less of a parent to their children because they didn't shoot bodily fluids out at the right times?"

"""" We got a dog , took it to a Vet. for a wee check up,
The Vet, (a grown man)
educated for a total of 7 to 9 years ( 3-5 years undergraduate plus 4 years of veterinary school)
said to the dog, after it's check up,
" now go to your Mummy".
I have children, I gave birth to them.
I breast fed them.
I did not birth to the dog. A DOG DID
I not breastfeed the dog. A DOG DID
You would think a Vet would know that.""""

Just saying.......
Quote:
Originally Posted by hugbug993
You say that like giving birth and breastfeeding is the only thing that makes you a mother. Do you think adoptive parents are any less of a parent to their children because they didn't shoot bodily fluids out at the right times?


Seems clear enough.

If an old person wants to think their pet is their child great , if it gives them comfort....

Perhaps a Medical Professional should know the difference between species ?... :

Top Secret Researcher
#25 Old 27th Jul 2015 at 9:49 PM
SimPersia, I literally analyze text for a living. She focused on giving birth and breastfeeding as the prerequisites for being a mother, not the fact that it's a different species. That implies that she thinks those are the most important parts of motherhood.

And I was referring not only to lactation, but to the various forms of afterbirth, as well as semen because I used the gender-neutral form of 'parent'.

So, why does the fact that it's a dog prevent someone from being its parent? Other animals will sometimes adopt a baby of a different species and people have no problem calling them a mother and child, so why not humans and a dog?

My MTS writing group, The Story Board
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