There’s a very old help thread where borg_sixofnine asked for help creating an in-game situation with greater autonomy for Sims. Seems they were dying when left to fend for themselves overnight. The thread is from 2007 and only got one response, but I was wondering if such a topic would get more interest and suggestions now - a look at Sim AI ten years later. AI has become a much more popular topic in the last 10 years and, of course, we all have access to the Ultimate Collection now and the Sims probably wouldn't die overnight now (would they?). I, too, am really interested in setting up the perfect environment so that my Sims could be autonomous. To me it's a logic puzzle - how to work within the constraints of the game to design an environment so that Sims best take care of themselves. Anyone else into this? Got tips? Things you've learned that make your Sims take better care of themselves? Like the perfect layout so they move where they should? The most autonomous personalities? Or... ? Ideas? Hacks/mods are fine, in my view, if they help the Sims act more on their own, rather than just maxMotive them all the time. Has there been a challenge based on this idea (I didn't find one)?

Not all of us have (or want) the Ultimate Collection. Just by the way...

But leaving that aside, the first thing you'll need to understand is routing protocols.

Advertising goes in straight lines/fewest numbers of tiles between the sim and the object; but routes go by portals. A sim who passes too close to a portal on the way to the object he's responded to will be deflected through that portal even though still locked on the original target. Doors, archways, and staircases are all portals. This explains the vast majority of routing failures and nine-tenths of the "stupid" behavior people complain about. Most of the rest are due to people not understanding what kinds of slots are available on what kinds of surfaces. If the sim passes the foot of the stairs on the way to the food prep counter, and there's another open food-prep counter in the bathroom at the head of the stairs; or if all the food prep counters in the kitchen are occupied; then the food will be prepped in the bathroom because that's how the coding works. Coffee cups can only be left on certain surfaces. Sims cannot put plates on desks. And so on.

I find most sims take care of themselves pretty well, most of the time. But the more you design their houses with the routing protocols in mind, the easier it will be for them.

I have a few mods that make some actions autonomous, particularly ACR.
I decided to have fun one day, and put 20 randomly generated teen Sims on 1 lot. I made 5 seperate houses (within the lot) with seperate dorm rooms. Left the Sims to do whatever they want while I watched each 'house' for a sim-hour or so each. It did not take me long to get bored of the constant routing errors, and Sims constantly wetting themselves whilst stood right next to the toilet because they had to shoo 10 Sims out of the room.

These days I give my Sims the right to do a lot of things, such as deciding who they marry and how many children they have, but I do still take care of them. To be honest, one of the things I didn't like about the later games was that Sims didn't seem to need you at all. The AI improved (my Sims didn't die if left to their own devices for a day or so) but it makes it less of a game and more of a TV show.

I'm not a big fan of just letting Sims do their own thing without intervening at all, because it always ends up the same; they can reasonably survive on their own but end up doing a lot of annoying bullpoop with a lot of complaining.

Despite all AI Sims are, in the end, not actual creatures/beings or alive, they are relatively simple bits of data that run through a handful of routines.

While there are mods that, apparently improve on their autonomy (I don't know from experience something like ACR would never get anywhere near my game) Sims are simply to primitive to be much use for any sort of "experiment" in AI imho.
Even in later games as the AI improved the Sims stayed pretty dumb and random, it might become a "TV show" but it's like a really, really, really boring reality show.

It's not as logical OP as you think. It isn't just the environment or routing at work here, it's individual sims.

The UC did not improve the AI by the way, it's the same as the disk version. EA updated nothing in the UC they didn't even remove the game corrupting buttons like the trashcan next to the family bin even though that has been known to cause corruption for years.

Anyway getting back to the sims. Some sims will take better care of themselves than others. A very enjoyable challenge was the 'Official wacky Boolprop Challenge' over on the old Boolprope forums. This was a challenge with pieces that you could choose, one that I chose was 'The bad apple' When doing the bad apple add on, one sim per generation was assigned to be the bad apple. You were not allowed to control this sim until uni with only 8 commands per day. You could ask thyem to join or call them but not tell them what to do. To get them up for the school bus I would turn a radio on, another sibling would do their homework. Most of us playing this attempted a whole lot less than 8 commands. My first bad apple took excellent care of herself. She had one potty accident and one pass out as a child, but she always seemed to know when food was being served and often had 2 helpings. She generally showered and went to bed by herself. Her son, the next bad apple would always complain about being hungry and generally went around with green fumes. The environment was the same, it was the sims that were different.

You can also help train your sims, but even when left alone and untrained they differ. So while sims are nowhere near as variable as people they do vary and can't be treated like a logic puzzle. Understanding how certain objects in game work can also help or kill off your sims. In an unmodded game toss in an exercise bike, don't tell your sims what to do and soon they will all be dead. The bikes coding is way too strong and does not tell them to get off in time. deaths by exercise bike- a direct result of the environment.

So it's AI yes, but also individual response, control of the environment through objects and routing, chance random occurrences (example go outside to get the mail, lightning hits a tree sim dies in tree fire) and training.

There are two mods I've used for so long that I tend to forget the vanilla game isn't like that, which may help in this situation. (Unfortunately this also means I have no idea where they came from.) One to make food never spoil, and one to get rid of the need for a Sim to hoard a bathroom for themselves. I'll probably go into more detail about other stuff later, but I'm strapped for time and typing on my nook. Interesting idea though!

Well. I fairly recently started a house of 8 roommates and left them on full autonomy because I wanted to see how quickly they would die, so that's a bit opposite to what you're suggesting, but I did learn some things (and I do have the Ultimate Collection). First of all, they went about 5 days and no one died even though it was summer, two of them had to sleep in a tent and one on the sofa, and one of them got struck by lightning (and I swear she was in the red for hunger for about 2 hours before she got a bag of chips and somehow survived), so I had to make things harder for them (eg. put a stereo in one of the bedrooms which of course would stay on for 3-4 days at a time because the damn things never turn it off). Even then, 2/3 pregnant sims survived through pregnancy which astounded me (even though I did bump up their motives to half full as soon as they conceived and took the stereo out to give them a fighting chance).

Right now there are 3 still alive, and they have a fairly even mix of traits except for mostly being on the lazy side. The very active sims worked themselves nearly to death on the ballet barre or exercise bike, then later died of hunger after passing out, so do not leave those items in a house if you want active sims to survive. One sim died because despite having extremely low motives and refusing to feed toddlers when they begged for food, he decided to spend ages bathing them. Right after refusing them food. Because apparently there's no motive check for that? So get a mod for no autonomously bathing toddlers if you want your sims to have kids. At least two died after being scared by ghosts, so if any sims do die, get those graves sent to a graveyard immediately.

I recommend the following mods if you want them to survive: CJ's Get off Your Ass (without it they'll "relax" for ages rather than actually napping or anything - destroying all motives by the time they decide to stop relaxing), CJ's Hot Tub Exit Logic (stops them from spending all day in the hot tub without caring about their motives, stops them from being in the hot tub when it's raining and liable to get struck by lightning), CBOY's Eat More Talk Less (stops them from chatting at the table instead of eating when their hunger is dangerously low). I know there's an anti-food nap mod but I actually found my sims stood a better chance of surviving if they did take a food nap. Because otherwise they'd keep getting into bed because they were tired, waking up immediately because they were so hungry, making the bed, then getting back into bed immediately because they were tired, until they finally (usually) passed out. And then died, or nearly died, because their already low hunger bar was completely empty by the time they woke up again. There are mods that make them prioritize hunger because it's the only motive that will actually kill them... like this (haven't tried it myself though): http://www.cyjon.net/node/536

Do not put fortune or pleasure sims in an autonomous situation if you want them to be happy, because so many of their wants are related to buying things. Fortune was the first to go into aspiration failure and spent roughly 1/3 the rest of his life crying and begging for simoleons. Romance does pretty well if there's a compatible partner around and you have ACR, I think that's the only one left standing in my game who's never had the therapist drop out of the sky. Popularity also did well until all her friends died.

Other thoughts -
Make sure there are at least two counters so if they don't clean up the last meal's serving platter they'll still have room to make another.
Get the most efficient beds possible. Mine got the crappiest beds available (plus a tent and a sofa) because I'm cruel, I'm sure they would have lasted longer otherwise.
Keep all noise-producing electronics out of sleeping spaces.
Keep a close eye on the fridge and if their hunger levels seem oddly low, send one to check food levels. Maybe it's because there was a lot going in on the house, but I didn't notice an empty fridge alert most of the times it was empty. Maybe because it would have enough for them to get chips or stuff their faces but not enough to actually make food?
Simlogical's Sensible Study Bookcase might be helpful? That way they can autonomously learn things that help them be better sims.
Add two doors to bathrooms so they don't get stuck being shooed out of the room by someone standing in the door.

Christianlov put out a no privacy toilet/bathroom thing that's been in mine for years, too. Very helpful. I don't know the food one. That's good.



These are good points. Myself, I would tend to think that the programming on the individual sims is also logical and also AI. Even the randomness is just a certain percentage of probability. For instance, I will always put a fire alarm in every house, just in case, and some of us may always but a burglar alarm. If we don't put those things, we won't necessarily get a fire or burglar, but it's fairly likely, so we can set up those devices to circumvent that possibility. Even their relationships can make them more likely to survive autonomously. For example, if I have more than one baby or toddler, I tend to maximize the love between one child and one adult, so that, at least someone is watching out for the kid. If I do that, they get much better care even if I forget them. I tend to make family groups that have different characteristics to balance each other. For instance, one usually ends up being excessively clean so that, at least, one person is a bit obsessive about picking up the spoiling baby bottles. One tends to want to make money if another is not at all inclined in that direction. I think this also makes them self-sustaining but works with the game AI.

Sounds like a fun challenge.



Sure, no, not everyone wants it. I think I probably just meant that we have access to a lot more game than we did when the original post was made 10 years ago. Good point, though. And, great info! I knew about the routing but, if I ever knew about the effect of the portals, I'd forgotten it. That explains some things. Thanks!



Yes, I'm sure you and BigSimFan12 are right that they would get boring to watch. The challenge is in setting them up to see if it can be done. I also think you probably have to expect some setup. I find that I sometimes have new Sims who have to be shown where the toilet is the first time, for instance, but, after that, they are ok. For me, I think it works better to think of the household as a system, something like an ant colony. I figure, they are probably about as intelligent as ants.






Great suggestions and observations. I'm usually too nice. I make sure they are all maxed out on everything and have the best of everything before I leave them. I will get that mod for hunger priority, I think, that's a good idea. I started thinking about this again because, in a different experiment, I dropped a bunch of people on an empty lot and I was surprised how well they did for quite a long time. Just putting in an out house and tent did wonders. The frustrating thing was that even if I have them grow food there or have them camped in a fruit orchard. I couldn't find anyway for the game to let them eat the harvest without counters and juice machines and whatever. That was annoying. Anyone have any way around that? Surely they should be able to stand out there under the tree and eat an apple if they are starving, you know?

There are hacked trees at Plumbbob Keep and I'm pretty sure you can eat the fruit off the tree. http://www.medievalsims.com/forums/...hp?f=240&t=9218

Also, don't quintuple post or the mods will spank you. XD

Comes along with a big stick.

@Sunrader please edit and combine your posts and delete the extra ones. Double (except for a needed bump) triple and quadruple posting is against site rules.

This is amazing! Thank you!

@joandsarah77, Ok, thank you for letting me know!

Thank you.

Many centuries ago I wanted to do a BACC with 8 sims starting off washed up on a beach. There were 2 pairs of siblings and the rest were all complete strangers. All had the different aspirations and went about their business exploring the lot. Mainly entertaining themselves with sandcastles, getting sunburnt and swimming to the point of exhaustion. I suppose that is because of what is available in the given environment as stated by @joandsarah77. They were simply taking care of themselves with what they're given.

When I put some tents, a kitchen, an outhouse and some skilling objects, they got busier. Never did one sim acted completely like the other. And once they had enough relationship points with each other to make best friends with all their peers - OH BOY.

If given the chance (and since they're bestfriends anyways) a sim will try flirting with whoever they think is hot. I find this as a complication with skill-based hotness. If sim A finds High Creativity and High Charisma hot, chances are they will flirt with sim B (High Creativity) and sim C (High Charisma). There was a chain reaction of flirting, jealousies, and fighting. And dear I say it, second hand furiousness! Remember those siblings? Yeah they don't appreciate their siblings getting cheated on and went to fight the offending sim even they were not directly involved anyways.

I had to move them out to their separate lots but I soon got a world-wide cockroach infestation from trash bins that kept getting kicked every single night no matter which household I was playing and I JUST---

Let's just say I'm never going to 100% leave single adult sims to their own devices again. I can leave families by themselves since...for some reason, they tend to be more responsible with taking care of themselves and their relationships.

Haven't really learned and can't always predict the autonomy of sims. I need practice though.

Are you kidding? I would no more let these idiotic pixels on their own than I would leave a toddler in a park by himself. Someone has to watch over my simmies. Otherwise they will stand by the refrigerator and starve to death, pee on themselves while they are in the bathroom, and pass out next to their bed. They also tend to stand at the roadside playing catch while their carpool honks its horn (and then cry when they lose their job), leave their infants out in the snow, and sit in the hot tub during thunderstorms. They need me to help them survive!

Heck no. I tend to give my sims more free will than a lot of players I know but I would no sooner do this than leave the game running to go to work. I love the way things happen by 'chance' with ACR, Inteen, Triplets and Quads and so on, but I don't want my sims dying of foolishness - at least, not unless it makes sense in the context of the story.

Oh, my sims are always on freewill. But, they need someone to help them out

Same~ my sims are always on free will but I don't let the game run unattended (without saving first)

Because by experience, I usually return from my bathroom break to the crisp distinct sound effect of a break up due to cheating hahahaha

it's the worse sound to come back to if you werent planning it for plot.

To be fair, we all do technically have /access/ to it, even if we chose not to use that access-- at least I've heard EA still gives out the key.

But yeah, it's benefits are minimal: it's just like the regular game if you have all the EPs. Gives a benefit of easier install if you have a tendency towards computer crashes every other year or so (like me), but comes with the annoyance of having to navigate different program files than most mods dealing in them detail the install for (you get used to that), and it also comes with the whole stipulation of needing to download annoying Origin and my most recent install of them both will occasionally whine insistently if I try to launch the game while the computer is offline or Origin is behind on updates (though this whining isn't consistent). In the game itself, though, the only real difference between the good old CDs and the Ultimate Collection is whether you're looking at a "Mansion and Garden" title screen or an "Ultimate Collection" title screen.

Anyways, @theOP on the subject of fun with autonomy, I'd recommend ACR for sure, possibly something like inTeen that allows all woohoo to be risky so you can risk babies being made autonomously, though those are the ones for funsies. Kill the unmodded exercise bike with fire and pay attention to which fun items you provide for sims with consideration for what you want them to do. If you're not directing sims, bookshelves are useless and will only cause diary-writing and toddler/child harassment, for example. Not worth it, they won't autonomously study. Televisions and computers are likewise pretty addicting and have minimal usefulness if you can't direct anything they can do. For efficiency, if you haven't modded away their OP-ness, artwork to view will boost fun super fast and they will autonomously look at it and make annoying noises if there's nothing like televisions or computers to distract them with its priority despite slower fun gain. If you want them to hold a job you directed them to take, instead you'd be best off making the only fun objects ones that they can autonomously use to skill while they gain fun such as the ballet bar (for body), chess (logic), music instruments or easel (creativity)... if you're controlling nobody at all, chances are they won't watch the cooking channel on TV, especially with unmodded Freetime movies around (god I hate those almost as much as the weather channel, amiright?) so I'd recommend a fire alarm for sure. Get the best fridge to avoid needing to order groceries much (you'll always need to direct restocking). Make sure at least one sim in the household is super neat so at least someone is cleaning. Make the kitchen large with lots of counters, too, because dishes pile up fast.

There are autonomous reading and skilling mods now.

There are also mods that allow sims to restock the fridge, either randomly when they get home from work or instead of ‚stuff face‘.

There was a YouTube livestream where someone just left them to themselves, but I would get bored quickly by that playstyle.

Not quite 'total' autonomy, but I once played an asylum challenge (where you can only control 1 sim) with 8 clones of the unsavory charlatan. It was pretty funny.



The most amusing thing is, because of ACR, twojeff's same-sex pregnancy mod, and a bigger household hack, one of the Charlatans actually got pregnant. He somehow survived too...at least until a few minutes after he gave birth. He dropped the baby on the floor and keeled over dead.

Kid actually grew up fine - when my playable 'won' the challenge he took the kid and unofficially adopted him. Didn't look too bad either. He's the one on the right here:

I have been known to leave Sim households where there is nobody below teen to run autonomously for a couple of hours, but I always check the fridge is full first. This is because even the most responsible Sims are bad at the whole "ordering stuff when hungry" part of the game, at least with my mod combination.

Total autonomy? I don't leave the game running for more than a few seconds without being put on pause when I have to leave it.

I know better than to let those pixels be unattended.

They're capable of anything and everything possible. Usually in a matter of milliseconds.

I dunno if they're as smart as ants. Ants and other eusozial instects are pretty amazing, they can modify their environment to their benefit and know how to cooperate on complex tasks. Sims can do neither of those things, they can't even coordinate on who should cook for the household or recognize that moving a plate would enable them to do a task such as preparing breakast.

They are probably closer to woodlice or something.