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Instructor
Original Poster
#1 Old 16th Apr 2011 at 6:11 PM Last edited by Skittlenut : 16th Apr 2011 at 8:24 PM. Reason: Didn't exactly put what I was asking right
Default TSM; A Good game for MMORPG players?
So, as a lot of people, I am a very big fan of the Sims, and MMORPG's.

This game has appealed to me quite a lot after looking at video's of it, and I've wondered, is this game fit for people who enjoy playing MMORPG's?
It looks to me it is quite like an MMORPG, apart from it not being online.

With the things of quests, choosing what you would most likely want to be (I think?), and having a Kingdom is explore, it does seem like most MMORPG's, just a bit.. smaller and not such a community with other players around the world.

So; Is this game anything like a Medieval MMORPG and would it be a good game for MMORPG players?
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Mad Poster
#2 Old 16th Apr 2011 at 7:55 PM
Well I can't speak for anyone else, but I know that I personally have been a fan of MMORPGs and medieval fantasy RPGs as well as the sims games since the original, and I love this game. :lovestruc Yes, it isn't for everyone; I've seen a whole lot of whining and complaining from people who bought the game only to discover they hate it. For me, however, I feel that the promotions for this game make it pretty clear what sort of game you're getting into. Most people seem to be complaining about the fact that sims do not age or that they can't edit the actual structure of buildings (both of which are true, by the way), but I knew these things long before I pre-ordered it, so I'm really not sure why it's coming as such a surprise to so many.

A couple things that did come as a surprise to me:
- how bleeding hard they make it to enable testingcheats (you can't just type it in while playing the game like you can in TS2 or TS3) and I found I really needed testingcheats, though even with them enabled, their functionality is much more limited than in TS3.
- It's nearly impossible to make money as a Knight. Seriously, they're the most screwed over class and Monarchs are a very close second; I expected to have no problems with income as my first Queen, but she was broke! Good thing Monarchs eat free (most of the time). Both Knights and Monarchs can be lots of fun to play as, but just don't expect them to rake in the cash.
- Many of the quests will not appear unless you have one of your kingdom aspects abysmally low, so if you're playing like I did on my first ambition (trying to keep all aspects equal and high), you won't ever see them. Also, I was over half-way through my first ambition before I discovered the "rerollquests" command. Seriously, it should just be a button in the quest book, or it should just show you all the currently available quests.
- You can't save during the entire tutorial quest. Which is stupid. It took me probably 2 hours to finish the quest and it was kinda late at night. If there'd been a power-outage or something, I would have been screwed.

I'm playing the game on my laptop which can't handle TS3 since I installed Late Night. Honestly, I just stopped playing TS3 because I was so upset I couldn't actually play mixology and table-dancing and vampires. I'm really not sure what about my laptop can't handle TS3, but it handles TSM just fine. I keep the graphics settings pretty low (yes, there are adjustable settings), so it doesn't look as beautiful, but it plays, and that's pretty important to me. I haven't had it freeze up or crash at all (knock on wood lol).

This game would probably appeal a lot to the type of person who uses energy and hunger decay mods in Oblivion. Because those are the only two actual needs in TSM. Bathing, playing games, reading books, etc gives buffs, but there are no hygiene or fun meters.
Alchemist
#3 Old 16th Apr 2011 at 8:12 PM
I play fantasy rpgs as much as Sims. In my opinion, TSM would appeal to people who play both Sims and rpgs. People who are only interested in Sims games seem to be disappointed by the quest-driven gameplay and the fact that it isn't more of the Sims style of life simulation.
While TSM does have a a lot of rpg aspects, I wouldn't actually call it an rpg and wouldn't be playing it if rpgs were the only games I played. I can't see people who are looking for an rpg being satisfied with TSM if it was presented as a pure rpg.
Because I like both kind of games I found it easy to adapt to the quest driven gameplay in a Sims-like setting.
Test Subject
#4 Old 16th Apr 2011 at 8:15 PM
Well I played WoW and other MMORPG's, always loved the Sims since the 1st, and I really like The Sims Medieval.

About the free time thing, I heard you can have it once you complete an "ambition". But I play for several weeks now and I still hasn't finished the first ambition. The reason is while in a quest you still have time to do whatever you want. But if you take too long between assignments your progression will start to decrease. But for me there is still time to build relationships between my characters, make them gain exp for their profession, make money to decorate their interiors, explore, etc. And I still finish almost all my quests with platinum level. So you don't have to rush the quest, though you can't pause it forever (maybe one day there will be a mod that allow to just ignore the quest for as long as you want or for a longer time). The only thing is that the quest is giving you a direction and a little story background and I like that because sometimes in The Sims 3 I feel like there is a lack of goal.

That said, while I really enjoy the game right now when my heroes are not yet at the top of their carreers and my kingdom doesn't have all the aspects to the max yet, I'm afraid I will lose interest after that and after my first ambition is over. Because unlike all the other RPG's and even the Sims 3, I'm afraid I will have seen it all very fast. it's like you have a game with just a little of everything but with a lot less depth. I wish there were skills for example. It's something that is in both type of games, RPG's and The Sims. Well there are, kind of, but "invisible". And you don't get to choose them and build a skill tree. There isn't that much to explore, because the world is pretty tiny. Etc.

I hope I'm wrong and maybe I will enjoy the game for a long time, but I'm the kind of player who get attached to its characters (I even have a hard time making them age in TS3 ), and I'm not very fond of the idea to start all over again even with a new purpose (maybe it would be more interesting with different choices of skill trees).

So I'm pretty sure you will enjoy the game, I just don't know in the long run !

I'm really looking forward a future expansion that I'm sure could add a lot if done right and make the game even more complete.

------

Sorry for my english, I hope it's understandable !
Lab Assistant
#5 Old 16th Apr 2011 at 8:32 PM
As it is right now, TSM plays very much like a Mamurhpegger, at least in terms of structure. Whether that is a good or bad thing is up to the individual player's tastes.
Field Researcher
#6 Old 16th Apr 2011 at 8:44 PM
Hope this fits somehow.

I've been doing little research about the game and a few opinions relates the game to WA quests in some aspects; however, when I view gameplay videos on the internet I don't really get that feel.
Love WA and doing quests of that sort, and if they were similar, I'd be down.

Any truth to that comparison?

"There's downloadable dongs elsewhere."
My Plumbob Story
Forum Resident
#7 Old 16th Apr 2011 at 11:05 PM
Considering that MMORPG's have pretty low standards compared to other games in pretty much all aspects to be acceseable by as much people as possible, I'd say the game would be great for someone who only plays MMO's.
Eminence Grise
#8 Old 16th Apr 2011 at 11:05 PM
Heh... a couple of points here:

TSM is a single-player game. So it has nothing to do with an MMO of ANY type, where the main thing is you're playing in a world full of other people and either fighting each other, cooperating to achieve goals, or both.

Makes sense to ask whether it's similar to an RPG, or not. It's obvious that in many superficial ways, the designers derived a lot of inspiration from medieval and high-fantasy RPGs, since the world is really more informed by fantasy conventions than it is by the actual historical European middle ages.

However, I also am an avid RPG fan, and while it has RPG "elements" (especially the XP system), this game is NOT an RPG, in my opinion. And I would expect many RPG players to hate it.

One huge element of almost every RPG that is missing in TSM is exploration. RPGs typically feature a big world, whether it's zoned as in the Dragon Age series or seamless as in the Elder Scrolls series, and as you progress you are always seeing something new. Incidentally, that is also the main feature of WA that's missing in TSM -- even WA had exploration in the form of dungeons. In TSM, the explorable world is tiny. The REST of the world is represented by text boxes that "stand in" for things that could happen in the town, the forest, the cave, and the ocean... but they are a pretty poor substitute for a fully realized interactive world.

The leveling system in TSM is an oddity. Unlike the other sims games, separate skills don't have their own progression; everything contributes to character progression in the same way. That is ALSO unlike RPGs, where an essential part in the vast majority involves the possibility of customizing your character by choosing how to allocate points every time they level. That basically means there's no individuality at all to your sims: two heroes of the same class and level are identical in terms of what they can do, and that applies whether they leveled up through practicing their profession or to something unrelated to it, like fishing.

The only real avenue for specialization comes through gear and recipes. Most professions can upgrade their gear. Upgrades can be obtained by shopping, by crafting, or as quest rewards. And crafting professions can "upgrade" their craft through getting special recipes, through questing or shopping. All this would be a lot more meaningful, though, if your equipment had any actual impact whatsoever on gameplay.

Which brings me to the most important difference between TSM and an RPG: no combat. (OK, three classes can engage in a form of decorative combat, but it's about as deep as the system for bathing, and less deep than the system for cooking.)

And, more generally, no system which rewards improving your hero, or provides any real challenge. Pretty much all the challenge in the game, and all its rewards are tied to one thing: PLAYING SLOWLY. The only thing that counts towards success in a quest is taking long enough to finish it, while keeping your hero's focus up, that the quest meter will have crawled up to platinum before you complete it. It's true that character progression can make it easier to keep a player's focus high, by providing more sources of positive moodlets; but even a starting character should have no problem staying well in the green unless a quest event slams em with a large bad moodlet, as occasionally happens. And then... the only solution is to wait it out, and start creeping your quest performance back up to platinum again.

So, to summarize, heh: yes, TSM contains some RPG elements... mostly cosmetic. Yes, it will appeal to some RPG players, but not all of them by any means. But it is NOT an RPG, and it is lacking the most central elements of RPG: exploration, a character advancement system that allows for customization, and a challenging combat system that rewards skillful customization.

All this is not in and of itself crtical of TSM. It doesn't claim to be an RPG, after all. And I've found that there's something oddly compelling about the "go slow" system of gameplay rewards, once I figured out (somewhat to my amazement) how it worked. But... if RPG players like it... it will be in spite of the fact that they're RPG players, not because of it
Mad Poster
#9 Old 17th Apr 2011 at 3:47 AM
I'm curious about this insistence that everything has to be finished at Platinum which some seem to have. I've finished some quests on Gold, some on Platinum. It's a surprise to me when I finish a quest. What difference does it really make?

MedievalMods and Sims3mods: Dive Cave Reset Fix, Resort Revamp, Industrial Oven Revamp, Will O' Wisp fix, UI Sounds Disabled, No Cars, Gnome Family Planner, Townies Out on the Town, No Martial Arts Clothes, Fast Skilling, etc. http://simsasylum.com/tfm/
transmogrified
retired moderator
#10 Old 17th Apr 2011 at 3:53 AM Last edited by mangaroo : 17th Apr 2011 at 5:37 AM. Reason: thanks, Sri
The higher the level when your Sim completes the quest, the more money and RP the quest earns. And there's a whole achievement ambition devoted to completing the quests at platinum level, I believe.
Eminence Grise
#11 Old 17th Apr 2011 at 5:32 AM
Yeah, I'm currently working on that ambition

But it's relevant to most of the ambitions. ALL the rewards depend on completion level, including Aspects. Took me a while to notice this, but if you mouse over the trophy icon on the quest description, you'll see a breakdown of all four possible rewards, depending on how you finish it. Not only do you get a higher Aspect boost for better completion, you can also completely avoid aspect reductions, for those quests that have it.

Of course, most of the Ambitions have enough wiggle room (available QP) to complete them without every quest being platinum... but you do at least have to monitor it.
Test Subject
#12 Old 24th Apr 2011 at 7:52 AM
I'm pondering buying it, but hearing that this is not a life sim is disapointing, I love me some RPGs, Final Fantasy series, the witcher, Dragon Age origins etc, but when I come for sims I come for simulation and fun and that is where find it lacking. I liked sims castaway stories pretty much and thought that medieval would be similar and while it seems a great concept, not being able to create a kingdom and play through various generations breaks it for me.

So it's not that I'm complaining that the game is bad, it's just not what I thought it would be("Sims 3" Medieval). Of course that with the world editor and alot of custom content I could turn my Sims 3 into Sims 3 Medieval, but I was hoping to be spared of that and there's always the gameplay that would need some tweaking to be medieval like, so I was hoping for something along those lines, and I really think that if EA wanted a Sims Medieval with generations isn't impossible to make.

In the end, this game ended being like spore to me, so full of potential but stripped and badly executed ideas. I might be wrong since I didn't really tried the game.
Instructor
#13 Old 24th Apr 2011 at 9:14 AM Last edited by Kneon_Knight : 24th Apr 2011 at 9:16 AM. Reason: Punctilliations
As a veteran of MMOs since "Neverwinter Nights" on the old Sierra net, I can say only this: Sims Medieval seems to be EA's method of "testing the waters" to see if the gaming community is willing to accept a fantasy RPG that isn't centered around elitist "hardcore" players.

I dunno, just a hunch, but I think we might be seeing something bigger than just "Sims Medieaval" and possibly less stressful than WoW on the radar in the very near future.
l,
Then again, as my sister is fond of saying, there is a very great chance that I am completely full of crickets.

She uses a word other than "crickets", btw.

From Simonut: Here is my take on if Sims 2 is losing popularity or not, If you offer or give a monkey a banana will he take it even if the banana is green or yellow ? Whatever new games EA put out there like the Sims3 some human somewhere will buy it.
Eminence Grise
#14 Old 24th Apr 2011 at 9:28 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Kneon_Knight
As a veteran of MMOs since "Neverwinter Nights" on the old Sierra net, I can say only this: Sims Medieval seems to be EA's method of "testing the waters" to see if the gaming community is willing to accept a fantasy RPG that isn't centered around elitist "hardcore" players.

I dunno, just a hunch, but I think we might be seeing something bigger than just "Sims Medieaval" and possibly less stressful than WoW on the radar in the very near future


WoW is an MMO. TSM isn't. There just isn't any comparing them >< (And I think most MMO players would laugh at the suggestion that WoW is "hardcore", but that's a debate for another forum )

There are plenty of very gentle single-player RPGs out there. The Fable series springs to mind as a very lightweight (but fun!) series with quite a few sims-like elements... for instance, the ability to marry any arbitrary NPC, have kids, buy and furnish a house and so on. Then there are all the undemanding, easy-to-play ARPGs like Torchlight. I don't think there's a gap in that space at all.
Instructor
#15 Old 24th Apr 2011 at 12:00 PM
I agree completely, TSM is far from any kin d of RPGs. For me, it's more similar to a casual strategy game, like the Settlers or Heroes of Might and Magic, something like that.
Test Subject
#16 Old 26th Apr 2011 at 2:39 AM
TSM actually broke my WoW addiction, hehe, although I have other things going on in my life that make it a better idea to play something I can pause.

I think some of the TSM features were put in specifically because MMOs have them, like getting new gear. I leveled a lot of TSM toons before realizing that I could get better swords and armor that would make the fights slightly more easy.

I'm hooked on the achievements (which is sort of like how I play WoW). Definitely it would appeal to someone with that kind of playstyle, or someone who likes to play a bunch of different alts. Someone heavily into PVP or raiding might not like it as much, especially since all the boss fights are off camera.

At first I was sort of cynical and thought some executive that knows nothing about gaming had told them to make Sims more like WoW, for the $$$. But after playing it a whole lot I decided I really liked the mix of Sims and strategy.
Test Subject
#17 Old 26th Apr 2011 at 5:13 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Rosawyn
.............
You can't save during the entire tutorial quest. Which is stupid. It took me probably 2 hours to finish the quest and it was kinda late at night. If there'd been a power-outage or something, I would have been screwed.

...................

I had to Rollback my system when a gfx card driver update caused weirdness and my half-completed ambition was stuck in Tutorial mode as the Documents\Electronic Arts\The Sims Medieval\DeviceConfig.log file was reset.
I just edited DeviceConfig.log - both instances of ..
Code:
EnableIntroTutorial 1
to
Code:
EnableIntroTutorial 0


I've tried this with a new game, and it saves just like it should.

Just another atypical stereotype atheist.
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