I'm telling you, if you wanna send a message, leave a crappy tip. No tip just means you forgot. I always left a slip of paper in my tablet when I handed back change or credit card slips, as a way for my tables to tell me how I did. Every time I got a bad 'review', I also got a crappy tip. Two or three times I got a glowing review, but no tip.

I always leave a tip for someone providing me a service which is an investment of their time, and additionally is specific to the service they grant me.
At Starbucks, for example, all the baristas can equally make the same tasting $5 coffee. I've been to a lot of Subways, and whatever I ask for there tastes the same as well since I always get it done the same way. These people do get paid at least minimum wage. Waiters, hairstylists, spa attendents, and so on do not. I always tip my taxi, anyone who carries luggage for me, or anyone who serves me a drink, since you are taking space at their bar, or riding in their car, and so they are choosing to serve you as opposed to a starbucks employee who MUST serve you. A taxi driver doesnt have to pick you up, a bartender can ignore you, and a stylist doesn't have to take you. A waiter will answer your specific questions and serve you for a period of time, and so it is best to leave them a 20% tip. In NY, an 18% tip is automatically taken from you anyway, so I always leave that plus an additional tip which is really expected of you.
No one expects anything at starbucks, and the tip jars are just ways to get rid of extra coins. That is probably how they started anyway, if you think about it. Don't most people use debit cards to pay anyway? If I carry cash on me, I keep it in case I need a cab. Coins just weigh you down though so tip jars I've never seen as tip jars, but coin emptying jars.

This is not directed towards anyone here in particular, I just saw the subjects and felt the need to vent from years of holding in.

I have worked in the service industry my whole life, I know what it is like working your butt off at a restaurant and then getting rewarded by a customer who tips 25 cents on a 15 dollar bill, no matter how nice and helpful I am.

So, I'm not sure what it is like in different states or parts of the world, but I live here in Arizona, and a server gets paid a whopping 2.13 and hours, far below minimum wage, the rest of their wages have to be made up with by tips. I am no longer working now, but when I do go out to eat, I always tip a 5 dollar bill, whenever I spend over 15 dollars. Yes, a 33% tip. The only time I leave less is when I spend under 15 or if the service is horrendous. Then I usually leave 3 dollars.

The service industry is full of hardworking people most of the time, and they have to deal with most of the stuff you wouldn't do yourself. What irks me the most is the complete disregard people show people in the service industry. A lot of customers are rude, impatient, and cheap. They complain constantly about too little whip cream, or "Where is my straw?" or even go as far as saying "I could do your job with my eyes closed." No, you can't. I can barely do it.

People may think that service people are a bunch of uneducated lazy people who don't bother to find a real job. That may be true in a few rare cases, but most are people trying to support a family, or trying to get their education. They haven't had the same opportunities as the person with a house and car and a 50k a year job. Give them a freaking break. Without them, you wouldn't have your doubleshot lowfat mochachino with extra whipped cream at 7:26 every morning.

As for tipping baristas, if you are paying with cash, why not drop the jingly change in the jar? It's like sending them a message "Thank you for doing the grunt work that I don't really feel like doing. Thanks for dealing with all the rude customers and still giving me a smile."

Every little bit helps. You can help make a difference one quarter at a time.

Oh yeah, also, if you can't afford to tip... you can't afford to eat at a restaurant. Enough said.

Being a Taiwanese national, I'm initially from a culture in which the only tips go to airport luggage personnel (porters). Waiters, waitresses, etc., are not tipped. In my experience, wages are hardly stellar, especially given the costs of living, but they are strictly enforced. There is one minimum wage, and violation of it is a felony.

However, it seems that a lot of this problems stem from a weaker minimum wage tradition in the United States--the fact that servers are "exempt" for labor laws is something of a surprise to me, despite having lived in the United States for several years. This whole tipping fiasco seems to be derived from the government's reluctance to "interfere" in the practices of employers in the very large food-service industry (laissez-faire), and a lack of a culture of labor rights among the employees.

If there is a strong tipping culture, as there is in the US, I suppose it's all right, but I still think it's not a preferable alternative. Overall, food is very inexpensive in the United States--one of a few nations in which obesity is common amongst the millions underneath the poverty line. If it meant a 15 or even 20% increase in the price of eating out, and would secure "more acceptable" wages among service personnel, I would personally support it.

Of course, the question of what is "acceptable" is problematic in it's own right. So we'll probably be relying on this complex tipping culture for some time.

They (being marketing people, higher ups, etc) figure that if you are stupid enough to pay $4 for a cup of coffee, you are stupid enough to tip them at the same time. I'm actually surprised that people still go to Starschmucks but that's not the point of this thread.

I don't mind tip jars though I much prefer the donation boxes for charities that places like Tim Horton's have in front of their tills. I will not withhold a tip for shoddy (or snobby) service even, but it will be smaller than what I would give a friendly and efficient service worker. The least I've gone with a tip has been $2 and that's because the service was horrible...very slow, orders were messed up, etc but I was still appreciative of the service I had in the first place.

Even though this is not the focus of the debate, let me point out that food is NOT very inexpensive in the USA. If one wants to eat well, meaning fruits, vegetables, lean meats, healthy things, it costs a lot! You have to be wealthy to actually get those 8 servings of fruit and vegetables per day when a pint of blueberries is $3.00 (how far does a pint go for a family?). Lettuce is $2 a head (again, the average family has 3 kids I think? That serves for one meal..).

"Poorer' people eat fast food (where you don't tip or get waited on) because THAT IS CHEAPER than a healthier, sit down meal. However, I agree with your premise that if we can raise the prices of sitdown meals a little and it goes into the pocket of the serve, that would be a good idea.

What is expensive is inevitably relative. That same head of lettuce would probably cost around 100NT in Taiwan--slightly more than three dollars. In the United States, you can get a pound of chuckeye (I believed that's what it's called) for $7. In Taiwan, this would likely cost 500NT, if not more. Even fish, which is generally regarded as "inexpensive" in Taiwan, it is still most expensive then on the US East Coast.

Yes, I realize eating well costs more than eating poorly, but that doesn't change the fact that eating well in the United States is less expensive then in most countries.

Food IS inexpensive in the United States--with the exception of a handful of imported products, primary staples like beef, fish, chicken, rice, and most forms of vegetables are less expensive in the United States then in other countries. While the definition of "eating poorly" varies enormously from nation to nation, adjusting for inflation, fast food is cheaper in the United States then in almost any other country. Eating well in the United States is still cheaper than in most other first world nations.

Most things in the US are cheaper than elsewhere too. Anyways...
I'm glad there isnt this hullabaloo about tips here in the UK as there is across the pond in the US. Tips aren't expected, not even for waiters normally, and waiters seem to be payed better here too, after reading what the seem to be payed in America, I know someone who works as a waiter at a McDonalds, and he gets payed £9.50 an hour, more than my dad, who is a bus driver, and puts up with lots more strife, longer hours, harder work, AND no chance of a tip at all, but i don't think tips should be expected, there was a huge parlimentary debate about them a few years back, with some saying that the people who recieved the tip would then sometimes spend it on cocaine or something(which was never proven), and so they wanted to ban tipping all together, which happened completely in one place in Wales, and some people are moaning that tips aren't high enough, try working as a waiter in a small restaurant here in the UK, which gives no tips, and pathetic pay, there was also a debate on that, about some student had only 3 1/2 hours sleep a day because they had to work so much, and then the debate of tipping got dragged in, all the usual "American students are richer than British students purely because of tips" and all that normal blah, but i wanted to make a valid point, which i cant remember what it is now. Oh yes. Those here who are saying that you should tip at a restaurant,or not go at all , dont go to work at one in Milton Keynes.

Thats all for now.

And if anyone actually read all that, points to you. How spiffing.

I feel that taking someone's change just because no one's complained before is wrong, just like I think wait staff jumping down your throat because you didn't give them a tip is just as wrong. As others have said, its your job. If you don't like not getting tips you can walk out the door and never come back. Plain and simple. Regardless of what social norms say, I'm not giving you anything above and beyond my bill unless I feel compelled to. Other people in other professions work just as hard for their paycheck as wait staff, and you don't see them getting their panties in a bunch because they don't get a little extra on the side.

The idea that people who can't afford to tip should stay home is ludicrous. I guess that also means if you can't afford to tip that store employee that went out of their way to help you find all of your items you should stay home too right? While your at it maybe you should tip the guy at McDonalds too.

Yes, but the person at the store and at McDonalds gets AT LEAST minimum wage. Your server in America get BELOW minimum wage, with their bosses expecting them to get tips to cover the rest of their paychecks. Tips ARE their paychecks. As a server, I get you everything you need to have a nice sit down meal without you having to cook it, or clean up after yourself. You don't have to do the dishes, or worry about the fact that you spilled hash browns all over the floor. As a server, I am doing all these things for you, and if you don't leave a tip, than that is just plain 'ludicrous.' Because you are paying for your meal, yes, but the tip is paying for the convenience of being lazy and not having to clean up after yourself, of get up to get your drink or ketchup or whatever.

In my opinion, not tipping someone for doing you a good service when you know they aren't getting jack, it just unethical, and beyond rude.

A lot of people here from America don't tend to realise that they are pretty much the only ones that don't have a universal minimun wage. Over here in Great Britain, where there is a universal minimun wage for all jobs, tipping is generally an optional choice used really only for good or higher service. Don't have a go at us who do this, saying we're selfish or ludicrous just because it's what it is in our culture.

Interesting fact - in Japan, tipping is considered rude.

If you're so high and mighty about tipping and the server's wages, why don't you put pressure on your government to change it?

Uh... Isn't having a chef cook your food for you, having servers clean up after you and bring you drinks and condiments the main reasons people go to restaurants and pay them? I agree with you that the fact that servers get less than minimum wage is messed up, but the fact that the server is doing what I expect them to doesn't deserve something extra. I already paid for a meal and for waiters to clean up after me and bring me drinks. I'm not going to give them a reward, because I already have when I paid my bill. (I actually do tip because of the wages situation, but, I'm not going to pay more than 15% unless I have a waiter/waitress who goes above and beyond what I expect them to, and earns the extra money I give them)

The fact that servers don't get jack should be taken up with the employers, and not shoved onto the consumers. Servers by law have to get minimum wage unless they make over thirty dollars in tips. At that point its up to the employer whether or not to reduce your hourly pay. As a customer that's not my problem. Take it up with your boss.

Sure you get my food, and clean the dishes or whatever, but that's in your job description. A tip is usually given to someone who's gone above and beyond the call of duty. Cleaning the dishes I used doesn't fit that description.

I went to a restaurant around my college because I needed to break a twenty to use as bus fare. My friend and I ordered our meal and were ready to leave. The server, who by the way did an excellent job, got down right angry when I asked for change. He became angry, flippant, and really rude. I had planned on leaving him a tip, but after his little tantrum I left half a penny. (Don't know how it got chopped in half) I never went back and told several people not to.

SilentPsycho you took it right out of my mouth. lol I was going to talk about how rude it is to tip in Japan lol

I have real issues with this post. Probably because I've waited tables for 10 hours a day and come home to an infant, but I have issues with it.

The fact that servers don't get jack should be taken up with the employers, and not shoved onto the consumers. Servers by law have to get minimum wage unless they make over thirty dollars in tips.
The man I waited tables for didn't give a crud about his wait staff. He had high turn over because he was - that close to abusing us on a daily basis.

What law? Point it out, please. Here in Louisiana, wait staff minimum (which is what is paid out) is $2.16 an hour. They cannot tell what you make in tips - only your credit card paid tips are logged for the IRS to a letter. Everything else you can make up and they won't know any different. So do tell, how do they know how much you make in tips? Not to mention that tips can vary widely from shift to shift. As an example, I worked mostly dinner shifts when I waited tables. I got good tips on my dinner shifts. My lunch shifts not so much, because we had fewer people. If I had a bad day and was tired from being up all night with a teething infant, I got fewer tips. Most of the time, my tips were more than my check.

At that point its up to the employer whether or not to reduce your hourly pay. As a customer that's not my problem. Take it up with your boss.
Most restaurant owners don't give a crap. Wait staff is cheap to employ. And if you complain, you're told 'That's how it is, deal with it or find other work'. And for a single mother with few marketable skills other than her people skills, waiting tables is almost the only thing available. Remember that at least one of your waitresses is probably a mom looking to put food in mouths and clothes on backs.

Sure you get my food, and clean the dishes or whatever, but that's in your job description. A tip is usually given to someone who's gone above and beyond the call of duty. Cleaning the dishes I used doesn't fit that description.
Define 'above and beyond'. Some things are out of our control. We wait on you hand and foot, take responsibility for others' screw ups, make sure your drink stays full and that your meal is exactly how you want it. We also put up with the bad attitudes and tantrums when it isn't right. Not to mention drunken idiocy, which you get a lot of when you have a stocked bar on premises. Do tell - why don't we deserve a tip?

I went to a restaurant around my college because I needed to break a twenty to use as bus fare. My friend and I ordered our meal and were ready to leave. The server, who by the way did an excellent job, got down right angry when I asked for change. He became angry, flippant, and really rude. I had planned on leaving him a tip, but after his little tantrum I left half a penny. (Don't know how it got chopped in half) I never went back and told several people not to.
That was the SERVER'S problem. I never assumed my customers would leave a tip. I just did my best work and usually the tips came because I did my best work. The server needed the attitude adjustment. I'll go along with that.

SilentPsycho you took it right out of my mouth. lol I was going to talk about how rude it is to tip in Japan lol
Whoop de doo da day. It's rude to tip in Japan. Irrelevant.

Our 'government' doesn't give two barks and a woof about minimum wage for wait staff. As long as they get waited on, they're happy.

Here's a nifty little tidbit I found.
The hospitality businesses – hotels, restaurants, bars and casinos – hire more minimum wage workers than any other industry segment. Under most state laws, hospitality workers who make tips – such as bartenders and wait staff – make a substantially lower minimum wage than all other hourly workers. The new federal law sets the minimum wage for so-called tip workers at $2.13 an hour.

Seven states – Alaska, California, Minnesota, Montana, Nevada, Oregon and Washington – require employers to pay tip workers the same minimum wage as other workers.
Source: stateline.org

Let's go over that again. The federal government has just raised tip worker minimum wage to $2.13 an hour. Only 7 out of 50 states require that tip workers receive an equal minimum wage. Where's that law about making minimum until you hit $30 in tips? I sure as heck don't see it anywhere.

There's nothing, that I, as a customer, can do about that. Again, not my problem.

Here are two conflicting, but good quotes that state that the issue of salary and bottom line take home pay belong to the employer and not the customer. I think one of them was used here already:


Source


Source



When you walk in that door you know what you're signing up for. If you don't and you don't do research before applying to a job, then it's your own fault. Don't forget, servers can be just as nasty. Before anyone says that they've been dealing with nasty customers all day, suppose I had a horrible day at work and had a bad argument with my wife. Anytime you deal with a job that deals with the public in the way that food service does you're going to get some unsavory characters and people who are having problems just like you are. Doesn't mean I should pay for it.



Before it closed, I went to a Thai restaurant regularly for lunch when I was out with a friend. The first time I went was the first time I'd ever had an authentic Thai meal. When I told the waiter, he recommended dishes to me, told me what he thought of them and even had the chef prepare it with a slight variation so I could taste the full flavor of one of the ingredients. He spent a total of 20 minutes coming back and forth to help me. The meal was great, he told jokes, and even chatted casually for a while. When his boss came to complain, we told his boss about the job he was doing. His boss was very proud. My total tip was about half the regular bill. I liked it that much. (This was during the lunch hour, which was always busy.)



Again, if you do your research you'll realize that this is not a job to have if you're raising a child. The income is too unstable. I can understand if you need a little extra money on the side to supplement your income, but not as the sole source. There are other jobs you could apply for such as a cashier at a local store.



Sure YOU didn't, but that server did, and like it or not, that reflects poorly on the restaurant. The server's problems end up becoming the restaurant's.



Other people have discussed tipping customs in other countries in this thread as well. Does that make those areas of their posts irrelevant too?

I don't usually tip in places like that (Starbucks, pizza places etc.) either. If the person who happens to be taking my order is exceptionally good, then I'll usually throw in my change or something, but generally not. I mean - if I am picking up the pizza, then why should I tip you? Because you make my food? I don't tip at fast food restaurants, so I don't tip pizza places unless they deliver it for me. Restaurants, on the other hand, I do tip, because all I have to do is sit there and pick what I want, then they bring it to me, cooked and delicious, while I don't have to lift a finger.

I won't tip rude people though. One time I was at a restaurant and I ordered a raspberry milkshake, but the waitress brought me strawberry, which I cannot have because I am allergic. When I pointed out her mistake, she apologized profusely and brought me another right away. At another instance in the same restaurant (with a waiter) I noticed that my milkshake was quite runny (unlike the other times that I've had them - this one was basically raspberry milk) and asked the waiter about it. He told me "Oh, that's how we make them here", gave me this look like "Don't direct your petty complaints at me, you stupid woman" and walked away. Then, at the end of the meal, he had the audicity to take my bill from me and fill in the tip amount himself, claiming to be "helping" me since "lots of customers don't know how to tip properly". Needless to say, he did not get what he asked for.

Not really. Do you think everyone in this debate all live in America? Does the rest of the world not exist? What I meant was that people in here seem to be having a go at those who don't automatically tip for everything, even if the service was so-so but don't seem to realise that they might have other reasons than the fact that they are 'cheap' and 'selfish'.

I wouldn't tip in costa or star bucks because you're paying (in England) £2.50 for a regular coffee! I mean, I know it's good coffee but coffee from this baguette bar I go to by my lunch from some days sells coffee for £1.50 and it's just as good. If the expect me to tip at Costa or SB I just say no. Because the tipping service there is, "Let's put a jar on the counter and earn another £10 a week." So no.

However, if I go to a good restaurant with good service and good food then I'll tip. Sure. But I wouldn't tip a McD worker because they shove food on a tray and hand it to you. A waiter must carry the food to you, some restaurants even demand that they talk to you. So I find what happened to you in SB outrageous.

They already pay for it anyway - through tips. If staff get a 30% tip, which is what I understood to be the acceptable thing, then what's the difference between it being in the hand, or filtered through the business books? If wages and prices are raised by 30%, then tipping could be eliminated, and servers not have to worry about how good a job they're doing.

It seems insane that those who are making money for the business (in that good service draws back customers) get the least amount of money and good service is supposed to be a fringe benefit that you pay for.

When we went to the US, we tipped - pretty much everybody because we didn't know how it all works. As an Australian who never tipped anyone in their life, it was very very difficult. I had the maths worked out, but working money into the whole exchange was so uncomfortable.

We have some American franchises that have tip jars out front here, and some people offload their change there, but most people don't bother - they're paid minimum wage (which is liveable here - $27,000 or so) and so it's not of concern. I have never tipped another Australian in my life - I've said keep the change for particularly nice taxi drivers who help with groceries, and given money to buskers (street performers etc.) but never tipped.

Interesting about the Japanese view of tipping - didn't know that

Yeah, if you tip in Japan, you're implying that your waiter or waitress has to be paid extra to do a good job. It's a huge insult.

Easy. The American political climate tends to ignore, and does not look favorably upon 1) The Poor, 2) The Young, and 3) Traditional Labor Causes. This includes servers, who are frequently poor, young, and would be ideal candidates to labor movements if they existed (I live in the Georgia--in parts of which organized labor is about as alien as little green men). In many areas, organized labor (the sort of thing that would petition and strike for higher serving wages) is tantamount to communist conspiracy against the government, the business community, and America as a whole.

Ignoring that we don't have a particularly receptive government for a democracy, and the love of the status quo, you need only look at the sort of upheaval that follows every attempt to raise the minimum wage in the United States. There's a reason several states have their own local minimum wages.

I think that's a little harsh. Sure, petitioning for a strike isn't looked upon favorably, but it doesn't make you appear to be a communist either.

However, the fact that the government ignores the issue doesn't mean people have to roll over and take it. If enough people who were passionate enough about servers and their wages got together and started a movement, I believe something could be done. Problem is, most people don't care enough to do it because they don't plan on making a career out of waiting tables.

I wish our minimum wage was that high. I make a little more than minimum wage and even so if I worked full time, I'd still only make $13,440... since my rent is $6360 a year, and I spend roughly $1000 a year on diapers and formula, not including electricty, cable, groceries, gas and other misc. bills there is no way I make even near enough to cover that.

BTW, as a reminder I work about 20 hours a week at Starbucks so my husband can work his full time job and we can avoid daycare.

For everyone that thinks the customer does not owe a tip, I disagree completely. No matter what country I am in, I ALWAYS tip. It is an expectation of someone in the service industry that they are getting a tip from the customer. It is a mechanism of society that we respond to a wait staff by rewarding them with a customary 18% tip.

The same can be said for other things. Most of us put on a pair of pants, shorts, skirt, whatever (something to cover ourselves) before going outside. If it wasn't a set rule, then a lot less people might not put on anything They might just be happy with underpants or something.

Even though THAT is an extreme example, the same conditioning can be applied to tips. Should we really be so cheap that we go out to have a meal, in all probability with another person or persons, and then embaress ourselves by not leaving a tip? How cheap is that. If you go to a restuarant where you can't afford a tip or do not believe in tips, then you really have no business going to that establishment in the first place.

As for tip jars, they are just designed to coax consumers into depositing their extra change and as I said before, have no bearing on the service provided. They are certainly a completely different invention than the concept of tipping a person that provided you a service, because tipping jars occur at places where people are doing a routine job and not customizing your service.