I have a simgeom file that I want to use as a replacement for the "thin" morph in game. Has anyone tried to do this before that could help me out? I have the simgeom - what now?

You would make a BGEO from the morph mesh using MorphMaker and give it the same TGI as the game thin BGEO for that clothing. You should do all the LODs or the clothing you're working with won't have a thin morph for the missing lods. If it's store clothing, I think you can directly replace the thin morph meshes instead of the BGEO.

And that is just for one clothing piece.
Each outfit has its own morphs.

If you want to edit all the thin morphs at once you best make a custom bone slider

Yes, I have made a custom body slider (top) that works very well for the nude top, but every other outfit in the game is a pointy mess. That is the problem I am trying to solve.

(I was considering making it replace the thin morph, but for now, I'd like to try it as a regular slider.)

The nude outfit is a bit different from other meshes in game. Somewhere in this forum I read that it has different boneassignments (not sure, *goes to check*).
I suggest you try to make the same slider only use different (not nude) mesh.

If you mean you have a mesh-based slider, it will only work correctly for one mesh and every other mesh (as you said) turns into a pointy mess. That's the way mesh morphs work. Like Bloom said, the only way to make a new body morph is with a bone slider.

I'm not sure of the terminology, but I don't think what I have is a mesh-based slider. I altered the file " S3_015A1849_00658921_00000000C3C3B2BF_amTopNude_lod1%%+GEOM.simgeom ", and made two BGEOs and a package using Morphmaker. The slider works on outfits where there is only skin showing (i.e. the last three swimsuits with just shorts), but when there is clothing involved, there are deformities. My assumption is that I am missing some kind of file that links to the outfits and tells them to adjust along with the slider. I do know that my package lacks both a facialblend and the BlendUnit and STBL files.

From what I see about bone files, they seem to be only useful for making each individual outfit, and I don't think that's what I'm doing here.

Looking inside one of Jonha's packages, there are files in there that I don't have. Since Jonha's sliders work, I can assume that either he A) included morph versions for every single outfit in the game, to go with each of his sliders, or B) there is a way to generalize for all outfits using just the one slider. I am going with B, since none of the files in the package look like they contain data for dozens of outfits, but maybe someone can point out the error of my thinking?

-

yes, it is a mesh based slider your working on and it will only have effect on one particular outfit.

Jona's files are bone(joint) sliders and those you want if you want to change a sim watever clothing he/she is wearing.

That is a clothing morph, and it will only work for the mesh it's made for. Although it isn't technically a mesh(GEOM)-based slider, it works in exactly the same way.

Each vertex in a mesh has an ID number. A morph, like the one you have made, contains a list of all the vertex IDs, and instructions to move them x amount in the z axis (forward/backwards), or the y axis (up/down) etc. This is fine, and works great: when you use the thin slider in-game, the game follows those instructions, and the result is a thinner mesh.

However, vertex IDs are not predictable: that is, there's no rule that says that vertex #6 is in this place. On the nude mesh, vertex #6 might be in the armpit; on a dress mesh, vertex #6 might be in the knee. So, if you tell the game to move vertex #6 three inches to the left with a view to making the sim's arm skinnier, and then apply that rule to the dress mesh, you'll be stretching the sim's knee sideways instead. There's no way around this problem.

What you can do, however, is make a bone-based slider, which will automatically select vertices based on whereabouts in the sim's body they are. Bone-based sliders don't give you as much fine control as GEOM-based sliders or morphs do, but they're the only way to manipulate the shape of sims' bodies without making a separate morph for every individual item of clothing in the game. If you're interested, there' a tutorial on bone-based sliders here: Tutorial:Creating a Bone-Based Custom Slider^wiki.

I can tell that it's not A for sure, because those sliders work on every CC clothing and it's not possible to include ALL CC and EA clothing in one package.

Edit:
If you want to make a bone based slider that will affect the whole body, make sure that every body part contains the right proportions. I have created one slider to make my Sims shorter and the result was freaky dwarfs with way too wide body parts.

Incidently, are there any known outfits that have the vertices/bone assignments in the proper order i.e. the same as the nude outfit? It would certainly save a lot of heartache to find working replacements for all the in-game clothing.

No, unless it's a CC which was made from nude outfit and you will never know for sure. Like Bloom said before, you can't make replacement that will work for more than one outfit unless you will able to do the same for every outfit in game (and for every CC clothing if you download any).
I think that it will be easier to make bone based slider instead.

Even then, it wouldn't necessarily work. Let's focus on a sim's leg - the back of the knee. To make it skinnier, let's say you move the thigh vertices forward by 3, the calf vertices forward by 2, and you leave the back-of-knee vertices alone. This creates a natural, skinny effect on a curved leg, without making the leg totally flat.

Then let's say you apply that to the exact same vertices on a straight trouser leg - oops, now you have a bumpy trouser leg .

I know it would be a shame for a sim's knees to get in the way of trouser perfection, but I would tolerate it for the sake of all the GEOM-based sliders we could be using.

wat is it that your trying to adchieve?
I might be able to help.


Outfits:
tops, bottoms and fullbodyoutfits have just one 3d shape, a GEOM(the mesh)
In the game files you will find morphs, fat/fit/thin and pregnant GEOMs
These are duplicates of the base 3d shape and are not used by the game(only EA's STORE outfits will use them i think)
But the data of those morphs is collected and stored in the Bgeo files
If your in CAS and use the thin slider on a sim it will bring up the thin data of the Bgeo files of each item the sim is wearring(top/bottom/fullbody/shoes/hair/face/accesoires)

You can make such a slider yourself, it is a GEOM based slider
It will allow you to change one particular 3d shape.
A tutorial you find here: http://www.modthesims.info/showthread.php?t=379878


Also,
each age category(toddler/child/teen/adult and elder) has its own skeleton with bonejoints
Compare it to the human skeleton, with knee/hand/torso bones
The animation files are build with that skeleton so if you want to let
a 3d shape animate along with it you have to assigne its vertices to those bones(joints)

Cool thing is that there are also sliders that let you edit that skeleton(and since the vertices of the 3d shape are related to that skeleton, they will move along)
Those sliders are called Bone based sliders and i dont think there is a tutorial yet that explains how to create one and edit a joint to your liking)
It is however pretty simple:

Download Delphy's CASSliderTemplate
Use it to create a slider package
Open that package with S3PE and extract the 2 BOND files
Those BOND files you can edit with Delphy's BoneDeltaEditor(each file represents the joint movement(right and left in CAS)
When done you import them back in the package and your done.

Well you see.... I made this slider for the adult male torso (more than one actually), and I got it looking right for the shirtless outfits, but with all the other outfits, it has massive deformities. I'm trying to achieve the desired shape for all the outfits that I got with the shirtless ones. From what I've been told so far, this is impossible using a GEOM slider because the vertex numbers of the outfits are in the wrong order, which is unfortunate, but I don't think the bone slider will give me the desired result.

So, I am hoping that there is some method of using the GEOM slider that I am not aware of, to get these outfits to work. Otherwise, I would like to find a source of outfits that have the correct vertex order, and use only them in my game.

You can scale the joints, its a bit harder as all related joints scale with it but possible.
In other words,
You can scale the torso to your liking, can you put up a screenshot of wat you want with the torso?

Tut tut, Bloom, I linked to a tutorial on bone-based sliders not ten posts ago .

I think you don't quite understand - there's no 'correct' or 'incorrect' vertex ID order. Different clothing meshes have different numbers of vertices and faces in different places and therefore they're numbered differently. That's just the way it is. I suppose you could make a set of outfits that are all clones of the same source mesh, reshaped to be nude or shirt and pants or dresses or suits or whatever, and then make the fat/fit/thin/pregnant morphs for at least two lods each for all of them, but it would be a huge project and still wouldn't work well as a facial slider for the reason Whiterider mentioned. As simply new clothing with your own fat/fit/thin/pregnant morphs it should work.

Bone order in the skeleton doesn't matter. When making a bone-based slider you refer to the name of the bone.

Besides, even if you do this, all your clothing will look pretty the same. You won't be able to add any 3D details to it, you can only paint on the shape with your textures. That's not the best way to make a good clothing.

Right now, I can't get a picture of it, because it only works in CAS, not in-game.

What do the BOND files change? They could work for me if the BOND affects only the clothing and not the skin that shows through (alphas?) But I still want the BGEO to show through for the parts that are naked.

BOND files change the bone positions, sizes, and rotations. In the meshes and BGEOs there's no such thing as the clothing and separate skin that shows though; it's all one mesh with a skin texture painted on it and a clothing texture with transparent areas painted on top of that.

I've uploaded some pictures of my slider in-game. Each sim has my slider either to the left or the right (with traditional fit and fat varying).





The last picture shows what happens when I use the everyday outfit, or anything with clothes. The reason I find what you're saying so hard to believe is that a lot of it seems to contradict the evidence.

1) If there is no separation between the skin and clothing on these meshes, then they are essentially the same mesh, so why would we need to do a different one for every outfit? They should look exactly the same, and not so deformed, like in that picture. The hands are most obviously different.

2) Your insistence that bone sliders and geom sliders are two different things. This statement confuses me - the only difference I can see, is the lack of a BOND and VPXY files, which I assume is the reason for my lack of success. All sliders have the BGEO, but my guess is that if I add a BOND file (or VPXY), I will have better results. You seem to be saying that I should do a BOND file INSTEAD of what I'm doing now, but then I would be without a BGEO?

The evidence tells me that every slider, in general, needs a BGEO and a BOND/(VPXY?), but that as long as the outfit has no clothing covering it (i.e. faces, or shirtless tops), the BOND is unnecessary. So now I have to assume that the BOND file is the element that influences the actual clothing. However, obviously, the BGEO affects the clothing as well, hence the deformities. But where do the deformed hands come in?

Take a look at a clothing mesh(a 3d shape) in Milkshape.
Select one vertice and go to extended manual edit(it is part of Demon's alligne normals plugin)

That vertice has 3 axis positions, X, Y, and Z and each vertice is assigned to atleast one joint(with a maximum of 4)
If you use Wes H's data tool(part of the GEOM plugin) you also see that that vertice is numbered

A GEOM based slider will change the vertice position of the base mesh into the vertice position of its duplicate, either the thin/fat/fit or pregnant mesh.
So, if i want to change vertice number 1 of the base mesh into the vertice position of vertice 1 from the fat mesh both vertices need to be identical numbered.
In general EA's meshes does use the same number ordering for the vertices but since every mesh has not the same ammount of vertices the numbering varies a little.
Like vertice number 6200 on the nude female top could be located on the thumb while it is located on the pinky on a swimsuittop, wich explains the spiky fingers.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


All tops/bottom/faces/shoes etc etc do have one thing in common, they use the same skeleton.
It is called the AUrig (for adults) and is by default used for everysim.
However, it can be adjusted through a (BOND) file before a sim gets saved and that is wat a bone slider does.
It will adjust a joint and all vertices related to that joint(vertices that carry the boneweights of that joint) will move along.
Have alook at the bodybuilder slider i once tried to make:
http://www.modthesims.info/showthre...t=394522&page=3

In general it similar changes other clothing meshes a sim is wearring but the slider can give little deformations depending on the boneweights used on each outfit.

In milkshape, when you have the skeleton with all the joints, if you click "SelAssigned", the set of vertices for that joint becomes selected. You can also select your own set of vertices and click "Assign" to assign these to a joint.

If I export the file after reassigning the vertices to joints as I please, would that information be carried over into BoneDelta, so I can use it for the adjustments I want to make? If this is possible, I would be happy to do this entirely with bones.