And I thought my parents' weird arm positions holding the little tykes were bad ... I'm also glad you got that sorted.

Although they are cute and I do quite like the design aesthetic of Sims 4 I don't know if, as a penniless student, I can justify the cost. If I wanted all the content (at the reduced prices currently) it would cost £197~. I appreciate that it is a lot of content but I almost feel like it's a LOT of money for a video game! I'm assuming that on top of the EPs, GPs, and SPs there is additional pay-per-download content, too?

So, I tried the free trial, with an open mind and all. Quickly found some maxi-match default replacements for the skin and the eyes, created a sim (Selwyn Fabulous, bookish, active and outdoorsy), and played him for a few sim days. He made friends, caught a frog, stargazed, and managed to embarrass J. Worthington by flirting with him. I also played the Goths a little bit.

There's a lot of things I liked. It's aesthetically pleasing, once you're "in" there (which surprised me); the CAS options are good, and I found the face-sculpting thinggie quite intuitive. But it feels distant. Almost sluggish -- not in terms of frame rate, which was fine; but the way the sims behave. The UI is massively oversized; it looks like a game designed for a tablet. And something that's difficult to pin-point; something that's missing, compared to Sims 2. Overall... much better than I expected, but not good enough to justify buying it.

It’s good that they finally added such a basic thing to the game, but it isn’t going to make me like it – there’s too much wrong about it (to me). For example ruined inventory system (it’s not like in TS3 where I can have separate chests for various things like metals or insects and sort them to my liking, in TS4 all the chests have shared inventory and the order of items is randomised each time after loading the game), every sim is a mindless cheater glued to their phone (randomly generated romances for my unmarried couple made me stop playing the game in September 2014, when I gave it another try in spring 2016 I had a mod to prevent it – I don’t want all sims in the game to be cheaters, some sure, to spice up a story, but I want faithful couples too), emotions override traits, which makes all the sims clones, creative possibilities are extremely limited (we had terrain tools in TS1, and world/hood editing in TS2 and TS3; there’s all or none with respect to foundations [e.g. I can’t have a shed in the backyard], no CFE because of the aforementioned lack of terrain tools, and first and foremost – no CASt! I can deal with it in TS2 considering the age of the game, but TS3 had it, so why not TS4?)... Sure, CAS is nice, but modders can’t add custom modifiable areas like custom sliders for TS3, and the limit of how much I can push/pull face areas is too small. And so on – the list of TS4 flaws goes on and on. There are good things about it, like splicing plants or separate hats, but they’re too small and they can’t outweigh the bad. And TS4 doesn’t seem to have anything really innovative – TS2 had plenty of innovations compared to TS1, like fully 3D graphics, genetics, family ties, and much more, TS3 was less spectacular, but it did have innovations like CASt and open world, but what about TS4? Emotions? They’re nothing compared to in-depth personalities and aspirations in TS2. Multitasking? It’s nice, but it doesn’t seem a big thing while playing (however it surely was hard to make), and sometimes it’s annoying (e.g. sims staring into space while eating). CAS? As I said before, it’s nice, but still limited. And there’s so much missing and there are so many restrictions that TS4 feels like a huge step backwards, and it really is visible that it’s made based on a salvaged scrapped online game project.

As for its looks – way too plastic as far as I’m concerned. The graphics were the first thing I knew about TS4 (I saw some pics), and it was the first huge disappointment to me. Textures seem blurred and low quality, sims don’t even have proper eyelashes unless you have CC, and they look like plastic dolls in their plastic universe. The didn’t need to go ultra realistic, but I’d prefer something like TSM, with the textures that actually look good and sims that are more human-like. TSM is the only sims game where I didn’t feel a need for default replacements. And here is a picture that shows what I mean with plastic doll house furniture – the bench on the left is a conversion from Castaway Stories, and the one on the right is from TS4’s Outdoor Retreat – the difference in details is huge.

So well, that is a brief summary of what I think about TS4, I’ve written more and longer posts about it on the official forums, with a tiny hope that maybe EA will see it and consider while making decisions about TS5, if they decide to make it at all.

I paid $30 for the base game on sale with toddlers added, I think it's worth that.

No. The EPs, GPs and SPs are it for pay content. There is no store or individual pay items. EA does patch in free content every so often (usually around the holidays) which is nice. That is a lot of money for a video game. I wouldn't spend that much all in one go.

I still don't get how these are new things. Are we really saying that TS2 sims have no emotions? What's the difference? And having just watched my sims chat while eating - is that not multitasking?

They will talk while they cook, things like that. Let me say they talk way too much. Ask a parent to put a toddler on a potty, do they grab them saying "potty time!" no, they wait while the toddler crawls onto the couch, then the adult sits down next to them, then they have a little conversation, probably about how uncomfortable wet pants are and does the child want to try the potty? Then they wait as the toddler toddles to the potty and puts them self on anyway. By the time they get there they may have already popped their nappy. Every parent knows that you get toddlers on the potty quickly because control lasts about 5 seconds.

The difference is that in TS4 we are told the emotion the sims are currently feeling – it’s written next to their picture in bold font. In TS2 they actually show the emotions, they have memories and consequences exist. If a sim in TS2 is angry, it only applies to a particular sim, if a TS4 sim is angry, it applies to everyone and everything they interact with. And their moodlets can be easily overridden, so it doesn’t matter that their spouse just died if they have a nice painting on the wall.

As for multitasking, TS4 has more of it, but it’s not perfect (like jogging while holding a cup of coffee doesn’t make much sense), so if there’s a TS5, they should improve how it works.

That reminded me of this lol:

Stops the idiotic dialog every week from sims about their aspiration score since even if their entire family died last week, if you happen to get them platinum right before the dialog pops it will be the best week ever. Stupid Eaxis.

So if a sim in TS4 is angry they make others angry just because of their angry moodlet and not by doing annoying things like in TS2?

No, it's more like if a Sim is angry, they'll have angry interactions with other Sims, like angry conversations. Which would be great if it actually worked. If you're in a bad mood, you're going to be short-tempered and won't be up for a friendly chat. But in practice, having an angry conversation pretty much just means that the conversation bar at the top of the screen turns red, and you're told that the Sims are angry.

Multitasking is nicer, but still has issues. I had a Sim doing a work assignment on his computer*, and he also wanted to flirt with his girlfriend. I was still in Sims 2 mode, so I'd queued up flirting, thinking he'd do it after he finished working. What happened though, is that she went and sat on the bed while he was at the computer, and he was able to do both things at the same time. They expanded on multitasking to the point that it really does qualify as a new feature, (although it has issues). Sort of like how babies aged to children in Sims 1, but you could still legitimately claim Sims 2 introduced aging. Sims can talk to each other while doing pretty much anything, now and dance while cooking etc.

*That's one thing I wish Sims 2 had - more logical skill building for jobs.

Yes, the multi-tasking is a good idea, but isn't perfectly implemented (which I can forgive, considering it's their first go at it). One thing that annoyed me was that I asked Bella Goth to prepare a salad, because poor little Alexander was hungry. She did. While chatting with anyone who happened to walk past -- and by "while", I really mean that she paused what she was doing, turned around, chatted, told a joke or five, then went back to slicing her poor neglected tomatoes. It took for-eh-ver. Meanwhile Alexander was feeding his mind by reading books, but his stomach was still empty. I was about to call the social services myself, frankly.

While I would love to see some of the multitasking in Sims 2 -- specifically, when sims are having dinner together and are chatting my ears off, *and* one of them has the want to talk to the sim they're sitting next to, I'd like for them to have this want satisfied. Because they've just had a nice long chat, haven't they?

Overall, now that I've had more time to think about it, I think what bothers me is how "gamified" Sims 4 feels. Those big buttons everywhere -- the UI really gets in the way of the story. Moodlets and whims that change too quickly. No apparent fears -- you can't really play to a Sims' fears if you don't know what they are! The fact we're being told, rather than simply shown, how the conversation is going. In fact there's a lot of writing in the game. Forget simlish; apparently EA doesn't trust us to understand what's going on without it being signposted, or they don't trust the sims to be able to tell us. I found it very annoying.

Oh! Basically, Sims 2 is a life simulator with game elements. Sims 4 is a game.

I think I'm now officially, ready for TS5 (if there even will be one). I adore the little toddlers in TS4, but I just *can't* seem to get into playing it. I've deleted all the townies, created my own sims, rebuilt houses and tried out every neighbourhood, and I just can't get it to feel... fun. Something is missing. It's always got this fraught, limited - yet overwhelming feeling to it. You can never find a small lot with a good starter house for a new sim, and I constantly get irritated when I find more interesting families in my 'unplayed' section and there's nowhere to put them. I can't get the blasted pixels to stop talking when I need them to do other things, but I also can't get them to socialize when I want them to - like at parties.

And if I load a premade family oh dear lord. I have to spend 30 minutes trying to figure out what their aspirations are and how that's affected whatever their storylines are and what I want to do with them and whether they have jobs, and the wretched UI is everywhere and things are popping up every four seconds and OMG. I just can't. My head explodes every time. Add story progression in and I'm literally just like "who are you pixels?!?" I can't.

It sucks. I love the toddlers and their little quirks and cuteness, but it's far too late.

I think the things preventing me from falling in love with TS4 are:

the UI - it is indeed a wretched thing
the multi-tasking. (I don't multi-task. I give my full attention to anything that needs to be done because I get a lot more done that way myself). All that sit down and get up while eating - (I don't care if there is a mod, I am talking about the game as it is).
The emotions. Really, every time a Sim starts gnashing his teeth because he has not played a computer game, I want to shout :Deal with it!!!! at him.

I'm not sure about this UI problem - this is what I'm getting. It doesn't seem over-large to me (or did I miss the point)? I know I have the needs up but that's not as much space as TS2 takes.

(you can tell by the name of the picture just how much impact the game is having on me. I only played that lot about an hour ago). Also, she doesn't look happy to me.

I still maintain ... it's a good game if the base is $10 - $20, preferably $10 - $15, it's worth that. It is a game with some appealing features.

But even when playing the game, it seems like Mr. Kelly was right years back. It does seem like a game with some sort of link to tablets or phones; like it was indeed a game created with those devices in mind. And it does still seem unfinished. I appreciate that EA is catching up and their efforts to produce something its players would like. The devs did great with the toddlers and other additions. However, if I finish an incomplete job for someone who expected a completed product, promising I'll catch up on the missing parts soon, and produce a major component two years later, I doubt a customer would be happy.

Yeah, constantly redirecting sims, and crossing off their tablets from their queue is annoying. This is part of the clunkyness, you tell them to go toilet and shower but they change it to chat and play on tablet.

I meant real-life tablets or phones. Sims 4 reminds me of an enhanced phone or tablet app, for some reason. Maybe it's my imagination.

But yes, there have been times I've had to constantly tell my Sims to stay away from their tablets. I guess it's the free will. I know in real life, sometimes I would rather play on a computer or tablet than do stuff.

No, she is happy. She smiles! Trust me, she will be grinding her teeth or something if she is not

And the background would be red!