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Lab Assistant
#101 Old 4th Mar 2013 at 5:35 PM
Quote: Originally posted by ScaryRob
Is it normal to have several identical apartments rent for slightly different prices?

I just finished an apartment Lot of 10 identical units. They are fully furnished and decorated 100% the same, yet all the ones on one side of the building are one price while all the ones on the other side of the building are a slightly different price.
The apartments are not mirrored versions of each other, but are identical (in all respects).

Is the price difference typical?
Is there a reason for it?

Just wondering.


Yes, this happens. Usually the price differential is not very much. I assume the game is adding in some tiny random factor or something. Or possibly factors such as windows and doors--maybe even their direction--change apartment pricing. I haven't tested this area extensively, though I've been trying over time to figure out exactly what affects apartment pricing and how.
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Theorist
#102 Old 4th Mar 2013 at 5:44 PM
Quote: Originally posted by ansleon
Yes, this happens. Usually the price differential is not very much. I assume the game is adding in some tiny random factor or something. Or possibly factors such as windows and doors--maybe even their direction--change apartment pricing. I haven't tested this area extensively, though I've been trying over time to figure out exactly what affects apartment pricing and how.

Kind of what I figured.
Oddly, the sunny side of the house is cheaper than the shady side.
Edit: Actually, not odd at all, considering this is TS. If something actually made sense, that would be odd.
Lab Assistant
#103 Old 4th Mar 2013 at 6:14 PM
Some of my recent learnings about apartments:

-- Amenities in common areas appear not to affect apartment pricing. I tested this by putting a hot tub in a common area; apartment prices didn't change. I haven't tested whether landscaping in common areas will change apartment pricing (stuff like trees and flowers).

-- The room divider fence can be used to make exterior areas that are within apartment boundaries but which can be walked into by other sims. A couple of practical purposes of this:

1. A tenement building in which each apartment has an apartment door which leads into a hallway, and an exterior door which leads onto a fire escape that's shared between apartments. The room divider fence marks out a small square around the exterior door onto the fire escape, and that one square is considered inside the apartment, but the rest of the fire escape is common area. I built this successfully and tested it with sims moving in. It works like a charm.

2. A cottage-style set of houses where each house has its own backyard, marked off by room divider fence. The houses are up on foundations so I used the invisible fence + modular stairs method to get the apartments to "flow" onto the ground, then the room divider fence marks the limit of the apartment itself in the yard. This makes it so the property is visually very open except for the picket fence delimiting the individual lots. I have tested a lot of this type and while the backyard is accessible to non-resident sims, the non-residents still cannot go through any doors (either the apartment door or the other exterior doors) to enter the actual apartment. So it operates very much like real life; while you can probably walk into your neighbor's yard, you typically can't get through their front door or their back door!
Theorist
#104 Old 4th Mar 2013 at 6:34 PM
Quote: Originally posted by ansleon
-- The room divider fence can be used to make exterior areas that are within apartment boundaries but which can be walked into by other sims. A couple of practical purposes of this:

Are you talking about those Great Divide things?

Lab Assistant
#105 Old 4th Mar 2013 at 7:34 PM
Quote: Originally posted by ScaryRob
Are you talking about those Great Divide things?


Yep, those. The apartment code considers them a real fence, just like a tall fence that can't be walked over. But since it can be walked over, it allows for the creation of areas that aren't fenced for walking purposes but are fenced for apartment-demarcation purposes.

Oh, I forgot to add one other learning I've made:

Occasionally when you've finished building an apartment lot and go to "changelotzoning apartmentbase", the game will throw an error message that you've got an invalid lot when you really don't. The way to fix this is to remove all the doors, then add them back in one at a time while using the cheats to switch between residential and apartmentbase with every change. This seems to help the game calculate the valid apartments, especially if you've got anything complex going on. Eventually you can get back to exactly the same arrangement of doors that you had previously, and the game will be fine with your apartments and not throw an error.

I can also validate that if you want to have a balcony or deck or porch with an exterior door to it from the apartment that then has modular stairs to anywhere else, you must EITHER 1. use the invisible fence + stairs method to get the apartment to flow onto the ground, OR 2. use the room divider fence on the balcony/deck/porch to separate the exterior door from the modular stairs so that the stairs are then outside the apartment boundary. Not using one of these methods will either cause an error to be thrown, or you'll get the thing where the apartments cost $0 and can't be moved into.
Theorist
#106 Old 4th Mar 2013 at 9:38 PM Last edited by ScaryRob : 4th Mar 2013 at 10:16 PM.
This is all very helpful, ansleon.

I have an apartment house that could definitely benefit from this. Right now, it has two ground floor apartments that include their own back yards, something the apartments on the upper floors don't have (for obvious reasons). The way you describe it, I could open the back yard to all the apartments and make it a common area.

I understand about putting the Great Divide fencing around the outside of the door, but did you happen to test if the fencing would also work right across the door threshold? I'm not even sure the game will allow that fencing to be installed like that, probably not.
Edit: I just checked, and as I suspected, the Great Divide fencing cannot be put directly across a door threshold. Probably because there's actually a wall there and doors only represent "portals" through walls.

In any case, thanks for the info.

With all that knowledge, you don't have any uploads?
Theorist
#107 Old 4th Mar 2013 at 10:14 PM Last edited by Karen Lorraine : 11th Jan 2016 at 6:47 PM. Reason: removing an offensive image
ansleon, I don't know anything about invisible stairs, as I don't have any custom content in my game, so lets leave that be for now (although I'm sure others appreciate the info).

But if I understand what you wrote about the Great Divide fencing, this is what you mean:

(Image deleted as it had become corrupt and was showing an offensive image)

Correct?
And if I understand correctly, only the tenants of the red apartment would have access to the BBQ grill, correct?
If the grill were outside of the Great Divide fencing, then tenants of both apartments could use it, correct?
Lab Assistant
#108 Old 4th Mar 2013 at 11:11 PM
Quote: Originally posted by ScaryRob
Correct?
And if I understand correctly, only the tenants of the red apartment would have access to the BBQ grill, correct?
If the grill were outside of the Great Divide fencing, then tenants of both apartments could use it, correct?


I'm not sure whether or not non-resident sims would be able to use the grill where it is in that picture or not. I do know that they won't be able to walk into the apartment. I didn't test their use of items inside the apartment area but accessible across the room divider fence. I doubt they would autonomously use it, but I'm not sure.

The thing I mentioned about the invisible fence + modular stairs is in the linked tutorial, so it might be helpful to someone else who uses CC.

I don't have any downloads here, I used to have some featured downloads at the Exchange. (Not that that's exactly a great endorsement, but it is what it is ) I sometimes think about uploading stuff but to be honest since I have all the expansions + I use a lot of CC to get my intended effect, I'm not sure how useful that would be to people.
Theorist
#109 Old 4th Mar 2013 at 11:27 PM
Quote: Originally posted by ansleon
I'm not sure whether or not non-resident sims would be able to use the grill where it is in that picture or not. I do know that they won't be able to walk into the apartment. I didn't test their use of items inside the apartment area but accessible across the room divider fence. I doubt they would autonomously use it, but I'm not sure.

Well, I was referring to the blue apartment tenants being able to use the grill if it were outside of the Great Divide fencing.

Non-resident Sims using common area objects is something I keep wondering about, although I've never seen any of them do it, AFAIK. I've seen them walk into the lobby of an apartment building, look around for a few moments and leave. At most, maybe they picked a newspaper off the floor and read it before leaving. Just things they typically do on a normal residential Lot.
So I tend to think non-residents don't use apartment common area objects - but I'd love to hear from someone who knows different for a fact.

Quote:
I don't have any downloads here, I used to have some featured downloads at the Exchange. (Not that that's exactly a great endorsement, but it is what it is ) I sometimes think about uploading stuff but to be honest since I have all the expansions + I use a lot of CC to get my intended effect, I'm not sure how useful that would be to people.

I have all expansion, but no CC (yet).
So pick a couple that don't have too much CC. Lets see what you got.
Mad Poster
#110 Old 4th Mar 2013 at 11:57 PM
Visitors do; and I've had surprise drop-in guests who were already friends of the playable show up at apartments just as in regular residences.

Ugly is in the heart of the beholder.
(My simblr isSim Media Res . Widespot,Widespot RFD: The Subhood, and Land Grant University are all available here. In case you care.)
Theorist
#111 Old 5th Mar 2013 at 12:00 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Peni Griffin
Visitors do; and I've had surprise drop-in guests who were already friends of the playable show up at apartments just as in regular residences.

Understood, but we were referring to strangers off the street. At least I was.
Lab Assistant
#112 Old 5th Mar 2013 at 12:06 AM
Quote: Originally posted by ScaryRob
Well, I was referring to the blue apartment tenants being able to use the grill if it were outside of the Great Divide fencing.


Sorry, when I said "non-resident" what I actually meant was not resident to that particular apartment. I didn't mean non-resident to the lot as a whole. I mean that I think the blue apartment residents may be able to use the red apartment's grill if it's in an accessible outdoor (yet within red apartment) area. But I'm not sure. Apartment lots don't quite work the way that owned community lots do, where for example if you hadn't bought a ticket you wouldn't be able to use an object.

I will test this stuff further when I get a chance to move my actual playables into the neighborhood I'm building, but that will be a while still. The testing I'm doing right now is just to make sure the basics function the way I want.

I'll think about uploading some lots. But nearly all of them do end up requiring some kind of CC. For example, for the tenement lot with the fire escape on the back I needed a CC wrought iron stairs with no supports underneath; otherwise there's really no way to build a Victorian-looking fire escape. I also used the Simlogical bunk beds because you can't cram 5 to 6 sims into a single 4x8 room without working bunk beds. Etc. I guess what I'm saying is that I build really neat lots, but they are highly specialized for scenario-type play. I almost never build typical suburban homes
Theorist
#113 Old 5th Mar 2013 at 12:41 AM
Quote: Originally posted by ansleon
I'll think about uploading some lots. But nearly all of them do end up requiring some kind of CC. For example, for the tenement lot with the fire escape on the back I needed a CC wrought iron stairs with no supports underneath; otherwise there's really no way to build a Victorian-looking fire escape. I also used the Simlogical bunk beds because you can't cram 5 to 6 sims into a single 4x8 room without working bunk beds. Etc. I guess what I'm saying is that I build really neat lots, but they are highly specialized for scenario-type play. I almost never build typical suburban homes

Ah OK.
Yeah, I probably wouldn't d/l stuff like that, but someone else would. And it's always nice to look at, if only to get ideas.
Theorist
#114 Old 5th Mar 2013 at 7:26 PM
OK, another apartment question.

I have an apartment house uploaded that includes a kitchenette in the common area. This kitchenette has one of those small, half-sized refrigerators that only have juices and, uh, TV dinners (I think). I also put a microwave nearby, and a bar.
So, here's the thing. There is nothing to prevent someone from putting a full-size fridge into a common area, with the result that tenants will be able to eat for free. Add a table or five and you've got a freebie restaurant. The landlord will presumably restock the fridge daily, eh?
Is this kind of thing generally frowned upon when making an apartment building?
What's acceptable and what isn't? Are the half-size refrigerators acceptable?
Mad Poster
#115 Old 5th Mar 2013 at 7:49 PM
Acceptable to whom? I recently built a quadruplex with a full kitchen in the common area. I hope in that way to forestall the glitch which lets all the apartment neighbors wander freely in and out, so when Theodora wants to prepare a meal for her neighbors she does it in the party room and when she wants one for her own guests she does it in her apartment. It's mechanically possible and so far it's thrown no glitches, nor is there any obvious reason why it should break the apartment.

Ugly is in the heart of the beholder.
(My simblr isSim Media Res . Widespot,Widespot RFD: The Subhood, and Land Grant University are all available here. In case you care.)
Lab Assistant
#116 Old 5th Mar 2013 at 7:56 PM
Quote: Originally posted by ScaryRob
OK, another apartment question.

I have an apartment house uploaded that includes a kitchenette in the common area. This kitchenette has one of those small, half-sized refrigerators that only have juices and, uh, TV dinners (I think). I also put a microwave nearby, and a bar.
So, here's the thing. There is nothing to prevent someone from putting a full-size fridge into a common area, with the result that tenants will be able to eat for free. Add a table or five and you've got a freebie restaurant. The landlord will presumably restock the fridge daily, eh?
Is this kind of thing generally frowned upon when making an apartment building?
What's acceptable and what isn't? Are the half-size refrigerators acceptable?


I've built some rooming houses where the residents had only a bedroom to themselves and all other amenities were in the common areas. It's been a few months since I played with one of them, but so far as I recall a common kitchen works this way:

-- Currently unplayable sims (that includes playable sims living in other apartments and NPC residents and the landlord and visitors) will never cook anything nor get anything from the fridge.
-- The playable family can use the fridge and other stuff to cook, but the "have meal" and "serve meal" options will not be available on the fridge. Rather, you'll need to use the "make meal" option, then they will cook it and set the serving plate down, then it can be served.
-- Non-playables will be very happy to eat whatever is served. That is to say, if you've got a sizable sim family AND there are a lot of non-playables around, the food will quickly be all eaten up. You may need to serve multiple meals or multiple times per day.
-- The refrigerator will require restocking, so it's not free food.
-- The landlord doesn't restock the fridge. A playable has to do this.

As to whether it's "acceptable" or not, why not? It's not cheating. It's just a different style of apartment. I make apartments that are all different kinds of housing, with some assistance from Simlogical mods. I've got tenements, boarding houses, hotels with attached restaurants, regular apartments, cottage developments, tent camps, all sorts of stuff. They are all functionally/codedly apartments but have very different look, feel, and lifestyle.
Theorist
#117 Old 5th Mar 2013 at 8:11 PM
Quote: Originally posted by ansleon
-- Currently unplayable sims (that includes playable sims living in other apartments and NPC residents and the landlord and visitors) will never cook anything nor get anything from the fridge.

I think I noticed that.

Quote:
-- Non-playables will be very happy to eat whatever is served.

So I'm a non-playable, IRL. I knew that.

Quote:
-- The refrigerator will require restocking, so it's not free food.
-- The landlord doesn't restock the fridge. A playable has to do this.

Ah, I never got to the point where it was actually empty.
Good to know - thanks.
So it's best not to pay to feed the entire building and eventually one of the playable tenants will have to pay to restock. Sounds reasonable.

Quote:
As to whether it's "acceptable" or not, why not? It's not cheating. It's just a different style of apartment. I make apartments that are all different kinds of housing, with some assistance from Simlogical mods. I've got tenements, boarding houses, hotels with attached restaurants, regular apartments, cottage developments, tent camps, all sorts of stuff. They are all functionally/codedly apartments but have very different look, feel, and lifestyle.

Interesting.

Do you know if tenants will use a BBQ grill located in a common area? I mean playable tenants not currently controlled by the player, or NPC tenants.
Lab Assistant
#118 Old 5th Mar 2013 at 8:25 PM
Quote: Originally posted by ScaryRob
So it's best not to pay to feed the entire building and eventually one of the playable tenants will have to pay to restock. Sounds reasonable.


Well, that depends on what your goals are for the housing type you are building and your method of building it. If you're building some kind of group housing such as a retirement home or a boarding house, then you probably want to pay for those non-playables to eat, since meal time is a prime social opportunity, and with some types of housing what you want is really a social situation. I didn't really find the paying for others' meals to be a big deal--food doesn't really cost much in the grand scheme of things. (Especially not compared to some rent costs with the way apartments are calculated.)

I will however give you a caveat; if you aren't using a mod (such as those from Simlogical or MATY) that forces non-playables to come out of their apartments to satisfy their needs, then if you do serve a meal you might not have many takers for it. The way apartments work as coded in the game is that regardless of what is actually in the apartments, non-playables will always be able to satisfy their needs within their apartments and won't come out very often. That is to say you could give them a totally empty apartment and in an unmodded game they will magically fill all their needs in that empty apartment, because the game assumes that they have a bed, toilet, shower, fridge, etc. in their apartment. Modding the game makes them come out, versus just having the stuff available for them to use. It's similar to how dorms work in unmodded Uni, except in Uni the game believes dormies can't fulfill their hunger and hygiene motives in their rooms, so they minimally come out to do that.

Quote: Originally posted by ScaryRob
Do you know if tenants will use a BBQ grill located in a common area? I mean playable tenants not currently controlled by the player, or NPC tenants.


Based on my explanation above (there's no reason for them to do so in an unmodded game), I'd say that I strongly doubt it. If they get "hungry", the game will send them back to their apartment to magically eat instead. However, I haven't tested this.
Needs Coffee
retired moderator
#119 Old 5th Mar 2013 at 8:51 PM
Simlogical has some hacks that look like signs. If you put up the knife and fork picture it will tell the unplayables to come out and eat. I haven't actualy tried it myself yet, but I'm thinking that should make them use the fridge in the common area. What I do in my hostel type apartment is use the hacked shinny time cooktop so it sporns a cafetera worker. Townie residents grab food that is put out without the sign.

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." - Unknown
~Call me Jo~
Theorist
#120 Old 5th Mar 2013 at 8:56 PM
Quote: Originally posted by ansleon
Well, that depends on what your goals are for the housing type you are building and your method of building it. If you're building some kind of group housing such as a retirement home or a boarding house, then you probably want to pay for those non-playables to eat, since meal time is a prime social opportunity, and with some types of housing what you want is really a social situation. I didn't really find the paying for others' meals to be a big deal--food doesn't really cost much in the grand scheme of things. (Especially not compared to some rent costs with the way apartments are calculated.)
Understood.

Quote:
I will however give you a caveat; if you aren't using a mod (such as those from Simlogical or MATY) that forces non-playables to come out of their apartments to satisfy their needs, then if you do serve a meal you might not have many takers for it. The way apartments work as coded in the game is that regardless of what is actually in the apartments, non-playables will always be able to satisfy their needs within their apartments and won't come out very often. That is to say you could give them a totally empty apartment and in an unmodded game they will magically fill all their needs in that empty apartment, because the game assumes that they have a bed, toilet, shower, fridge, etc. in their apartment. Modding the game makes them come out, versus just having the stuff available for them to use. It's similar to how dorms work in unmodded Uni, except in Uni the game believes dormies can't fulfill their hunger and hygiene motives in their rooms, so they minimally come out to do that.
I just downloaded Pescado's Apartment Hack a couple of days ago, but haven't installed it. Time to do so. I get tired of using the cheat to rent furnished apts.

Quote:
Based on my explanation above (there's no reason for them to do so in an unmodded game), I'd say that I strongly doubt it. If they get "hungry", the game will send them back to their apartment to magically eat instead. However, I haven't tested this.
OK, thanks.

As an aside, it amazes me that modders can affect this in a game, since it is a major game changer. Good thing, though, I guess.
Lab Assistant
#121 Old 5th Mar 2013 at 9:00 PM
Quote: Originally posted by joandsarah77
Simlogical has some hacks that look like signs. If you put up the knife and fork picture it will tell the unplayables to come out and eat. I haven't actualy tried it myself yet, but I'm thinking that should make them use the fridge in the common area. What I do in my hostel type apartment is use the hacked shinny time cooktop so it sporns a cafetera worker. Townie residents grab food that is put out without the sign.


I use the Simlogical signs and they are very effective. I use them in most of my apartment lots at this point. I haven't used the dorm stove, but I have set up an NPC-staffed restaurant within a hotel that gets frequented by all the residents.

I believe there is also a mod at MATY that forces apartment residents to come out of their apartments to fulfill needs based on the furniture that is actually in their apartments. So you could even individually control how that happens, based on what you put in the apartments--e.g. you want some residents to have their own shower and others to use a communal shower. I assume this should be used instead of the Simlogical markers (rather than trying to use both), but I haven't used it myself.
Lab Assistant
#122 Old 5th Mar 2013 at 9:04 PM
Quote: Originally posted by ScaryRob
I just downloaded Pescado's Apartment Hack a couple of days ago, but haven't installed it. Time to do so. I get tired of using the cheat to rent furnished apts.


Yeah, that's the one I was thinking of. Come to think of it...I may have that also installed in my game, since the fixes included in it are pretty important. Hah, I have so much stuff in my game I often forget what all is in it!
Theorist
#123 Old 5th Mar 2013 at 9:11 PM
While I've got your attention, what's the difference between a Mod and a Hack in this game?
Mad Poster
#124 Old 5th Mar 2013 at 9:13 PM
I don't know that there's a distinction between "mod" and "hack". I tend to use the terms interchangeably, myself.
Needs Coffee
retired moderator
#125 Old 5th Mar 2013 at 9:20 PM
I use the terms interchangeable as well.

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." - Unknown
~Call me Jo~
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