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Test Subject
Original Poster
#1 Old 24th Aug 2012 at 11:07 AM
Default Kneel Before The King
When I first got TSM, every time my monarch walked around the kingdom, people would kneel before him. (Do not confuse with kneeling before the throne). And it felt a bit more realistic since he was their King after all. However, I stopped playing it for a while and started to play it again after Pirates & Nobles came out. For some reason, no one kneels anymore... Anyone know why?
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Scholar
#2 Old 24th Aug 2012 at 1:29 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Legendrian
When I first got TSM, every time my monarch walked around the kingdom, people would kneel before him. (Do not confuse with kneeling before the throne). And it felt a bit more realistic since he was their King after all. However, I stopped playing it for a while and started to play it again after Pirates & Nobles came out. For some reason, no one kneels anymore... Anyone know why?


I've looked through certain xmls ages back but can't find anything relating to it.
I have P&N too, and mine still do kneel at the start of a kingdom but so far in they stop doing it. I've been testing a mod recently (for something different) and I'm quite far in but without ever saving, and they're still kneeling. So I'm thinking maybe it stops when you save if you're a certain length into a kingdom.
I'd love if they carried on doing it all the way through a kingdom. Like you say, it's more realistic.
Test Subject
Original Poster
#3 Old 24th Aug 2012 at 1:46 PM
Indeed. I hope someone can find the reason why this is happening and hopefully a solution to it. :/ I find it irritating when the people in court just carry on with their nonsense when the King is standing in their face.
Field Researcher
#4 Old 24th Aug 2012 at 5:23 PM
Yes, everyone should kneel before the king or queen.. except maybe their spouse and guards, but I'd prefer everyone do it then everyone do it near start then find the king boring.
Scholar
#5 Old 24th Aug 2012 at 9:55 PM
I've found where it's hiding. I have 2 ideas to test out to see if the behavior can be made to carry on throughout the kingdom's lifespan, but I'm not holding my breath. There's no clues as to why it suddenly stops either, at least not where I'm looking, so whatever eventually stops the kneeling might just over-ride any mod anyway.
I'll give both ideas a shot though.
Lab Assistant
#6 Old 25th Aug 2012 at 12:05 AM
Quote: Originally posted by ChickieTeeta
I've found where it's hiding. I have 2 ideas to test out to see if the behavior can be made to carry on throughout the kingdom's lifespan, but I'm not holding my breath. There's no clues as to why it suddenly stops either, at least not where I'm looking, so whatever eventually stops the kneeling might just over-ride any mod anyway.
I'll give both ideas a shot though.


Don't know if this is relevant, but it's an observation. I think it's linked to your Monarch's reputation. I noticed that the more popular my Monarch became, the more familiar his or her subjects treated him or her. More like a family member than a ruler and subject. Maybe the newness just wore off. Not really sure. But if my Monarch acted like an a$$ to people, they tended to grovel more.

I like playing The Sims. I don't like to be played like a Sim.
Scholar
#7 Old 25th Aug 2012 at 12:30 AM
Quote: Originally posted by ladyskye
Don't know if this is relevant, but it's an observation. I think it's linked to your Monarch's reputation. I noticed that the more popular my Monarch became, the more familiar his or her subjects treated him or her. More like a family member than a ruler and subject. Maybe the newness just wore off. Not really sure. But if my Monarch acted like an a$$ to people, they tended to grovel more.


I wondered if it might be but I figured it would work the opposite way if it was connected, I see it as respect and mine all have hugely great reps so I dismissed the idea. I never thought of what might happen in reverse. I've never had a monarch be a complete a$$, I'll check that out too. I did wonder if perhaps you tried to remain neutral like you start off when they're all bowing if it would carry on.
So do your sims bow all the way through a kingdom if you're monarch isn't approved of?
It will give me a new thing to check into when my 2 current ideas fail =P
Thank you for your feedback, hugely relevant at this point =)
Mad Poster
#8 Old 25th Aug 2012 at 1:01 AM
At one point in time a long time back, I sort of presumed that it was caused by the "Greet" function when a sim meets the Monarch the very first time. After the first meeting they have been greeted, the monarch knows them and they don't kneel anymore. I never investigated it to the extent that I tried altering it though.

MedievalMods and Sims3mods: Dive Cave Reset Fix, Resort Revamp, Industrial Oven Revamp, Will O' Wisp fix, UI Sounds Disabled, No Cars, Gnome Family Planner, Townies Out on the Town, No Martial Arts Clothes, Fast Skilling, etc. http://simsasylum.com/tfm/
Scholar
#9 Old 25th Aug 2012 at 2:48 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Shimrod101
At one point in time a long time back, I sort of presumed that it was caused by the "Greet" function when a sim meets the Monarch the very first time. After the first meeting they have been greeted, the monarch knows them and they don't kneel anymore. I never investigated it to the extent that I tried altering it though.


My Monarch is currently married to the knight and he's still bowing to her.
Test Subject
Original Poster
#10 Old 25th Aug 2012 at 2:58 AM
Actually, for me, the subjects don't kneel, period. Even when my Monarch first started off, no one knelt. And it's carried all the way through even when he became popular...
Scholar
#11 Old 25th Aug 2012 at 3:22 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Legendrian
Actually, for me, the subjects don't kneel, period. Even when my Monarch first started off, no one knelt. And it's carried all the way through even when he became popular...


Oh...have you tried checking in fresh kingdoms to see if this is consistent in your game and not just a kingdom glitch?
Scholar
#12 Old 25th Aug 2012 at 12:49 PM Last edited by ChickieTeeta : 25th Aug 2012 at 1:49 PM.
The kneeling is disappearing when you quit and re-start a kingdom, either to menu, or shutting the game down and relaunching it.

Even right at the start of a kingdom. I've checked that they'll all kneel, saved, exited to menu and reloaded the kingdom and they've all stopped kneeling even that early on.
I've tried this quite a few times now at various early points (after respos, doing 1 part, or 2 parts of a quest etc) and it stops consistently on re-load.

Whereas last night I played in hi-speed till I'd used around half the quest points, so I was fairly far in to the kingdom, and they were still kneeling when I shut it down. This morning when I loaded the kingdom they've all stopped.

I've just tried saving, exiting to menu and re-loading the kingdom right after making a Monarch, and they never kneel at all. Which might be where your problem is coming from Legendrian.

The kneeling is listed in idles, so I don't know why it would suddenly be eliminated, and I think it was intended to carry on throughout a kingdom, so it looks like it might be a bug.

It's kind of like Grim's core where you have to exit and re-load to get the functions to show up on some sims, only in reverse, exiting is making the animation disappear, so I assume it will take someone with Grim's knowledge to fix it so the animation remains. I'd be ecstatic to be proved wrong if someone else wants to take a look.
Test Subject
Original Poster
#13 Old 25th Aug 2012 at 11:10 PM
Quote: Originally posted by ChickieTeeta
It's kind of like Grim's core where you have to exit and re-load to get the functions to show up on some sims, only in reverse, exiting is making the animation disappear, so I assume it will take someone with Grim's knowledge to fix it so the animation remains. I'd be ecstatic to be proved wrong if someone else wants to take a look.


As a matter of fact, with my games even when I start a fresh kingdom and when I haven't even saved yet, no one is kneeling. It's just completely stopped for me. I originally thought it was removed or something during the P&N update, but since you say this, I'm even more confused.

Maybe someone with considerable modding experience might be able to look into this and pinpoint the exact source of this insolent behavior of the Monarch's subjects. xD

But, then again, most people might consider this an extremely minor and easily overlooked bug and might not wanna waste time with it. But, if there is someone like me, who cares about the details, I'd very much appreciate if this matter could be investigated further by someone very familiar with modding Sim Behaviors and such.
Scholar
#14 Old 26th Aug 2012 at 11:14 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Legendrian
As a matter of fact, with my games even when I start a fresh kingdom and when I haven't even saved yet, no one is kneeling. It's just completely stopped for me. I originally thought it was removed or something during the P&N update, but since you say this, I'm even more confused.

Maybe someone with considerable modding experience might be able to look into this and pinpoint the exact source of this insolent behavior of the Monarch's subjects. xD

But, then again, most people might consider this an extremely minor and easily overlooked bug and might not wanna waste time with it. But, if there is someone like me, who cares about the details, I'd very much appreciate if this matter could be investigated further by someone very familiar with modding Sim Behaviors and such.


I've managed to mod it so they keep kneeling even after I've saved and exited to the menu. It doesn't work for existing kingdoms though, the animation is still gone from those ones, but in fresh kingdoms it seems to be okay.

*Edit* Never mind it suddenly stopped working again lol
Test Subject
Original Poster
#15 Old 26th Aug 2012 at 11:36 AM
Aww... If you get it to work properly, I'd be very grateful if you could share the mod. I'm not experienced with modding at all, so I'm afraid I can't do it myself.
Scholar
#16 Old 27th Aug 2012 at 9:49 AM Last edited by ChickieTeeta : 28th Aug 2012 at 10:23 AM.
Quote: Originally posted by Legendrian
Aww... If you get it to work properly, I'd be very grateful if you could share the mod. I'm not experienced with modding at all, so I'm afraid I can't do it myself.


I've removed all mods, and it behaves differently. The kneeling is so few and far between as to be almost unnoticeable unless you're looking for it, so with an unmodded game Shimrod's theory of being greeted might be right, there's so few people in the castle though it's hard to tell. I haven't seen anything that prevents greeted sims from reacting though.
Unfortunately, it still stops completely after exiting the kingdom.
I didn't have anything in that should be affecting it, it's highly possible I missed something though, unless there's something in Grim's core.
I'll put the core back in and see if it becomes more frequent and everlasting again.

Normally in my game, they kneel consistently regardless of friendships etc until the game is exited. According to one of the xmls kneeling and cheering is for positive popularity and booing is for negative popularity.
I've tried lowering popularity and raising it again to see if it can be made to proc again, it doesn't.
But with a modded or unmodded game it still stops completely after exiting, so I'm still of the opinion that it will take someone like Grim to fix it. Shimrod and Simmodder99 etc know way more than I do about any of this stuff though, so perhaps one of them will prove me wrong.
I wondered if adding the animation as a characteristic of a trait would help a bit, but I'm not sure exactly what's being ignored after exiting, so I don't know if this will help or not. The Monarch+AuraOfPopularity file seems to be getting ignored, but the animation is listed in idles so the animation itself seems to be getting ignored. I can change the behavior by editing both of these xmls, but none of it stops it disappearing on re-load.
Saying that though, the booing for negative popularity stops after exiting as well, so it seems like 'Monarch+AuraOfPopularity' is the one being ignored??? I may have missed something else relating to it, there's a reference to the animation in the awareness xml as well, but I think it's just controlling the behavior of the sim during the animation.

Funniest thing I saw was when I allowed overlays on the animation to entertain myself and a servant refreshing the bath threw the bucket of water over himself. :D
Scholar
#17 Old 30th Sep 2012 at 7:56 PM Last edited by ChickieTeeta : 18th Oct 2012 at 3:41 AM.
How to keep the kneeling animation:
(It looks like it's quite involved but it's really just a couple of clicks to do it.)

If you've already saved, exited, reloaded and lost the animation....
Take a note of your Monarch's level
Using Grim's core, select 'set profession on Sim' and turn them into the Monarch (you don't have to retire them first if you use the right one (use the one that comes up when you click on the sim, NOT the 'set profession' option that you get when you shift-click on them))
You'll get kneeling back at this point because their level will be reset to one and the game will view them as new, which is what's needed to get the animation back, but it's ok.....

Reset your Monarch to their correct level:
Shift-click your sim and choose 'select profession level' and set your Monarch back to the level they were before you reset them.

If they had bonus levels,
set them to 10...
shift-click and choose 'set profession level on sim' then the option to 'increase level by one' till you have the correct amount of bonus levels back.
(If you're already on the simology panel it won't show the change, just click off it on to the relationship panel or the inventory and then back to simology and the change will register.)

(relationships, inventory, cash etc won't be affected by resetting them to lvl 1, so don't worry about that....although it would be logical to assume that the popularity level of the monarch will also be reset)

The downside is if you want to keep the kneeling permanently, you'll have to do this everytime you load the kingdom....(or everytime you can be bothered to, and just play without it on the occasions you can't be bothered :P)

If you want the kneeling back and were half way or so through a level and don't want to cheat by putting them to the level above, or penalize yourself by putting them back to the start of their level, then you'll have to wait till they level up before resetting them.....unless anyone knows of a way to drag the level bar like the energy and hunger bars can be dragged?

Now that I can have the kneeling permanently, I'll be modding it to get rid of the retarded cheering animation they do as well :P
Field Researcher
#18 Old 6th Oct 2012 at 9:31 PM
Do you think there could be a way that people to the royal consort as well as the ruler?
Scholar
#19 Old 6th Oct 2012 at 11:49 PM
Quote: Originally posted by henryV111
Do you think there could be a way that people to the royal consort as well as the ruler?


Only if you made them Monarch first through the core, but this will eventually bring about problems since the game isn't designed to recognize 2 heroes of the same profession.
Instructor
#20 Old 8th Oct 2012 at 4:21 AM
When i first played my first Monarch (Lady Freya) everyone was kneeling before her until the half of my first quest. after that they stopped. when she got killed and i replaced her with her daughter (Lady Flaire) everyone hated her no one kneeled or even respected her, i killed her thinking it might change but when i made the 3rd monarch (Lady Alexis) which is the one i'm currently playing she is still hated by everyone and some even still mourns their first queen. it kinda lessened after completing a few quest but when i did another quest involving Lady Alexis some of the peasants still boo's her. I have never scene anyone kneeled again after Lady Freya.
Scholar
#21 Old 8th Oct 2012 at 8:13 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Aya_Alexa
When i first played my first Monarch (Lady Freya) everyone was kneeling before her until the half of my first quest. after that they stopped. when she got killed and i replaced her with her daughter (Lady Flaire) everyone hated her no one kneeled or even respected her, i killed her thinking it might change but when i made the 3rd monarch (Lady Alexis) which is the one i'm currently playing she is still hated by everyone and some even still mourns their first queen. it kinda lessened after completing a few quest but when i did another quest involving Lady Alexis some of the peasants still boo's her. I have never scene anyone kneeled again after Lady Freya.


It stops after you save and exit...everytime you save and exit.
I've never tested what happens on the death of a well loved Monarch, maybe the aura of popularity starts out lower and has to be raised. The booing and lack of respect is the opposite of the kneeling, so still correct and still a reaction that will disappear when you leave the kingdom.
Try resetting her using the method above, if that doesn't give you a reaction back then you have a glitch. If you mean they're booing when her popularity level is high then they're either still affected by grief or something else or you have a glitch.

In my last kingdom my Doctor consistently booed, applauded or laughed at patients when they were getting off the operating table it was consistent throughout the entire play of that kingdom. Never seen that before.
Instructor
#22 Old 8th Oct 2012 at 7:17 PM
but i haven't saved or exit yet when they stopped. i was on my first quest. and i think Lad Alexis has a high popularity level since everytime i hold court it says that her popularity has greatly increased. I will try pl;aying her on a quest again after i finish my quest with my witch and see of people still hate on her.

my Physician does that too she always laughs at her patients after they get off her operating table. no boo'ings though and she applauds sometimes but she always laugh.
Test Subject
#23 Old 8th Oct 2012 at 11:23 PM
ChickieTesta, I was playing around with the Monarch+AuraOfPopularity, and I deleted the <TimeDuration><value>-1</value></TimeDuration> from the xml entirely. I think I got them bowing continuously. Could you check to see if this works?
Scholar
#24 Old 9th Oct 2012 at 1:22 AM
Quote: Originally posted by SimWatcher
ChickieTesta, I was playing around with the Monarch+AuraOfPopularity, and I deleted the <TimeDuration><value>-1</value></TimeDuration> from the xml entirely. I think I got them bowing continuously. Could you check to see if this works?


No, it's not working for me I really wanted it to.
When I was playing around with this, I found that sims who were queued to do the animation would still do it on re-entering the kingdom, so things like sims at the tactical map (which can take a while) would still kneel when they were done with the map, because they were queued to do it, which gave me a few moments of false excitement.
How long did you test it for? (So we can rule out false positives)
Did you change anything else at all besides this?
Which ambition did you test it under? (just incase :P)
Which mods are you running with it, or have you removed them all to test it?
Which build package did you take the file from? Although as far as I can see it's only in the full build 2 package.
Scholar
#25 Old 9th Oct 2012 at 1:28 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Aya_Alexa
but i haven't saved or exit yet when they stopped. i was on my first quest. and i think Lad Alexis has a high popularity level since everytime i hold court it says that her popularity has greatly increased. I will try pl;aying her on a quest again after i finish my quest with my witch and see of people still hate on her.

my Physician does that too she always laughs at her patients after they get off her operating table. no boo'ings though and she applauds sometimes but she always laugh.


I've played 14 kingdoms that have a doctor in them, and my last kingdom was the only time I've seen this. I was wondering if it was dependent on traits. Mine had Herculean, Chivalrous and Entitled. Does yours have any of those traits?

As for your kneeling. Legendrian said his never worked either, so I don't know. Try the method I posted and see if that works for you.
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