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Mad Poster
Original Poster
#1 Old 27th May 2016 at 6:11 PM Last edited by Grijze Pilion : 27th May 2016 at 6:29 PM.

This user has the following games installed:

Sims 3, World Adventures, Ambitions, Late Night, Generations, Pets, Showtime, Supernatural, Seasons, University Life, Island Paradise, Into the Future
Default 32 bit: Understanding the root of the problem
So my Sims had just gotten back from a holiday in Champs Les Sims and while I initially feared my game would not even make it past the loading screen, it did in fact, and quite easily. It took about 20 minutes to load (some 15 more than usual) but ran fairly smooth and consumed no more than 2900 megabytes of system memory, even as the simulation was running. But when I made the mistake of going outside the lot and having the game load other stuff in, it almost instantaneously crashed as it would always do.

Now here is where I wonder: Why only 3.2 gigs? Why will the game not use any more? When I really really hate something, I want to educate myself about it so I can be better at hating it. I have some understanding of 32 bit essentially means, why it imposes hard mathematical limits, and what overflowing is, so instead I want to look at what that data is made up of. What is TS3 caching when I unpause? Why do I get a CTD when it runs out of memory it can assign? How come there is no code in place that suppresses errors or dumps unused data? I'm using a RAMdisk to store the game's cache files in, why does the game not directly read off those?

And with that sort of knowledge in mind, are there any ways (even just theoretical ones) to override the memory limit without having to deal with such things as glitching, crashing, assets randomly unloading, corruption, simulation errors...?

Also, just for the sake of coming off as more bewildered and/or annoyed I'll list the specs of my main PC, my secondary PC and my next, as of yet nonexistant PC with the circumstances I will aim to run the game in.

Main:
Intel Core i5-3350P @3.5GHz
MSI GeForce GTX 650 w/ 1024 mb of VRAM
8192 mb of RAM
Windows 8.0 x64 without any updates
TS3 runs off a 2TB HDD
TS3 runs in 1920x1200 with FXAA and SSAO enabled
TS3 typically crashes while using 3100-3200 mb
All settings maxed except for number of lots to load in (usually 1, sometimes 3)

Secondary:
Intel Core i7-3770K @3.5GHz
MSI GeForce GTX 960 w/ 2048 mb of VRAM
16384 mb of RAM
Windows 7 x64
TS3 runs off a dedicated 256GB SSD
TS3 runs in 1920x1080 with SMAA and HBAO+ enabled
TS3 typically crashes while using 3500-3800 mb
All settings maxed except for number of lots to load in (usually 4, sometimes 8)

Future:
Intel Core i5-6600K @3.5GHz
GeForce GTX 1070 w/ 8192 mb of VRAM
32768 mb of RAM
Windows 10 x64
TS3 runs off a dedicated 512GB SSD
TS3 runs in 3840x2400 with SMAA and HBAO+ enabled
--
All settings maxed, obviously

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Mad Poster
Original Poster
#3 Old 27th May 2016 at 7:34 PM
I do see a lot of people saying mods and CC are largely responsible for, as you put it, "pushing the game outside the design limit". But if all assets are stored in the system RAM, why would CC make any difference? I also hear about other stuff like using a savegame cleaner or removing all screenshots, but I can't see how either would be particularly useful. I already have Overwatch doing it's thing, and I also have Sims3.ini set up to use more memory.

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Mad Poster
Original Poster
#5 Old 27th May 2016 at 9:33 PM
I'm in Bridgeport, my save is about 21 months old and I've retroactively applied a routing fix to it. I've also added in about 2 dozen lots and I've recently used Total Annihilation to kill off townies. I have a population of about 350 and I have replaced most (but not all) rabbit holes with CAStable ones that do not have LODs as far as I know. I've also increased the number of trees in the world by about 10 times and additionally I have scaled the LODs for all vegetation so that they will always render full models instead of billboards. I'm also using Nvidia drivers to turn the anisotropic filtering up 16 times and I have other stuff like better AA and AO enabled.

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Instructor
#6 Old 27th May 2016 at 10:06 PM
Yes it is indeed the population that cause all the trouble in gameplay performance in my opinion, as for the RAM itself, well theoretically because TS3 is a 32 bit base program, it should be okay if user only have 3GB ram in their system, in other words, it doesn't matter how many GBs user have RAM in their system as long as is above the minimum requirements, in theory they should be fine.

Now since TS3 is an open world simulation game, it simulate the real world we're living, this is where the game sometimes reach the hardware limitation, and because it's a 32 bit program, no matter how big the RAM installed, it will only use about 3GB of ram whether the user have 32 bit or 64 bit OS, technical side of view, more cores in the CPU and powerful CPU would help the gameplay better, but that's not always the case because in certain point in the game, it will eventually reach the maximum of its hardware limitation..

This is why in my opinion.. even if TS3 was made in 64 bit platform, it will ended up with the same gameplay and/or loading problem as we have now, it will just happen later rather than sooner when the TS3 world keep populating endlessly..

Now since those are the parameter that we have in how TS3 run, to have an ideal or let's say reasonable gameplay, we have to make some tweaks and adjustment in our play style especially in knowing when the game would reach the maximum capability of its hardware can handle to simulate the world..

I've been trying customizing my TS3 main installation files few months back, it does help the gameplay performance but it's not much gain, but when I customize the world I'm going to play in a new game, these steps make a lot of differences in both of gameplay and saved game loading time.

This is how i set up my world before I start playing a new game with my almost 2 gb mods;

1. Start a new game, open edit town.
2. Edit the world your sims will live in, and all the vacation worlds you have installed.
3. If you have.. let's say 40 or 50 household sims in your world, make 80-90% of them into NPC sims.
4. From the 80-90% of the NPC sims you just changed them into, edit their homes before placing them back in.
5. Editing their home requires Late Night EP, empty or demolish the interior of their houses and put hidden room markers (just like apartment in Bridgeport)
6. This step also applies to the vacation worlds in edit town.
7. Now if your game patched to 1.67, the sims have the ability to move to other town.
8. Unfortunately we can't edit the other town (or world if you plan to move your sims in later stage of your game) from "edit town".
9. The only way to edit the other town in "edit town" is when your sims has actually moved to the other town or world, just paused the game and start editing town before continuing your game in your new town, of course you can set up and make the same customization to the other town or world by using CAW, you can also set up your current world in CAW before playing the game, just pick which one suits your play style.
10. With this set up, you will have only 10-20% playable sims and real house of your total population, the rest are just "decoration sims and buildings/houses"
11. If you have Generations EP installed, you will still need the no memory mod to have better gameplay performance.
12. If you have NRASS SP, just set it up to certain sims or all of the 10-20% playable sims you've just created.
13. If you have Pets EP, the same steps above to set up the pets in your world will also help the gameplay better overall.
14. Now after you done setting up how you're going to play TS3 as I did above, there still more that still needs some tweaks.
15. Now we need to make some adjustment/tweaks in the 10-20% playable sims houses, fix all the interior layout, make enough space in tight hallway, dining room, bathroom, etc, this way your sims won't stuck and then start idling because they can't move, this step also applies for community lots.
16. Once all done, save your edit town as "MasterPlan" or whatever you want to name it and just start your new game from that saved game you've just created.

Ever since I made this time consuming set up and tweaks just to prepare a new game, I have the game that I never complained with so far, even it's not 100% perfect, when there's trouble, I can find them easily and make some necessary changes because basically I edited all of them so I know every millimeters of them..

So.. basically, understanding how TS3 runs will help you understanding what causing your game to have all of the trouble that occurs in the game, this is what made TS3 is different from TS4 or TS2 or TS1, with this set up steps, my TS3 is as smooth as TS4.. but still in an open world simulation
Instructor
#8 Old 28th May 2016 at 10:16 AM
Quote: Originally posted by nitromon
I'm curious. When you turn them into NPC, how do you place them back? I'm assuming once they're NPCs, they're no longer in a family bin. Also, wouldn't the game simply delete them if they do not have an NPC assignment, such as cops, maids, bartender, etc..?


When we're in edit town, we can just choose any household, we can choose which one we want to do first, make them into NPC or make their home to decoration house first. Either way will work, but if we make them into NPC 1st then we have to enter Live mode first (and paused the game) to make them to NPC, and then go back to Edit Town mode to have them vacate their house, this will put the NPC household in the clipboard, and then we can edit their house and turn it to decoration house by emptying the interior and place the hidden room marker(s), when done editing their house in Build Mode go back to Edit Town mode and just put the NPC household in the clipboard back in to their new decoration house and save the game each time we done editing just in case so we don't have to repeat the same household all over again.

This is how I do to change them into NPC;

1. Bring up the cheat bar (by pressing CTRL, shift & c on you keyboard)
2. Type in, ageuptonpc
3. Bring up the cheat bar again
4. Type in, testingcheatsenabled true
5. Find the sims in your household you wish to make a npc, hold down shift, and click him.
6. Press edit sim in create a sim.
7. Make that sim a toddler and accept
8. Hold down shift and click that sim again
9. Click, start ageing transaction, once turned into a child, it will ask if you want this sims to be a npc or not, accept.
10. Hold shift and click on that sim again and edit in create a sim make back to (young) adult and he/she will be a npc living in your house!


And yes once we made them into NPC technically they won't be in a family bin if they are live in our active playable sims household, but this step is for different purpose, to make the town/world less busy and less populated, only the playable sims will populated, the same case with the decorative houses or buildings, less stereo or tv or etc activated because they are only available in the playable sims household. The less populated town/world will improved the gameplay overall, and another good thing is even if we use "kick all tourists out" cheat, this NPC sims stays as long as they have assigned household.

And no the game won't delete if the NPC sims don't have NPC assignment as long as they are saved in the saved game we play, they might go away and never come back if they don't have assigned household in the town or world we're playing, I got this trick because one of my sim fell in love and have relationship with NPC sim when he was enrolled to the University, then I tried to bring home his NPC gf by inviting her and asked her to move in with my sim, and the NPC sim stay as NPC after she moved in, even after I moved her out and put her in empty house, the game didn't delete her, she became resident in the current world I'm playing.

Anyway this is only one way to go around how to have a good gameplay and faster loading depends on the user play style, this is not a way to fix and solved the game issues permanently, some might agree and some might not, but the thing that we never see anyone complaining about the TS3 gameplay issues, is when the user only installed the BG only, because BG only is less populated less trouble without EPs/SPs installed, this is only one of so many possible ways to go around the trouble when EPs/SPs CC and mods installed so the game would be as good as if BG only installed, I never see anyone complaining "hey I got lag/freeze problem with TS3 BG only", well they might be.. but I just never seen a case like that, but there's so many case "hey I got the newest i7 6th gen with GTX blablabla 16gb blablabla and I'm having lag/freezing problem when playing TS3"
Mad Poster
Original Poster
#9 Old 28th May 2016 at 10:46 AM
Quote: Originally posted by nitromon
I think I remember you mentioned that you also don't play with SP on? It puzzles me why your game would have RAM problems when there is no SP going on. But when you say 350, are those just residents? or do they include townies. Also, I'm not entirely sure what is the point of deleting the townies? The game will just regenerate them, unless I suppose you used some method to have them turned off?

I think some 90 of those are residents, the rest are all townies I have decided to keep around. I'm starting to think the issues might come from my home lot, which has quite a lot of different stuff on it. But that wouldn't explain why the game runs almost perfectly when paused. Really, it won't crash until I unpause.

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Mad Poster
Original Poster
#11 Old 28th May 2016 at 2:03 PM
I do think that's the problem. I also CASt everything . I suppose I could remove the basement, it's completely useless yet full of stuff. And there's also a little pavilion-esque thing neither of my Sims have ever used. I can't cut down on decoration, though. But I really can't imagine removing anything will make a real difference, especially since I have the option that hides stuff on other floors enabled.

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Inventor
#12 Old 28th May 2016 at 2:37 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Grijze Pilion
I do think that's the problem. I also CASt everything . I suppose I could remove the basement, it's completely useless yet full of stuff. And there's also a little pavilion-esque thing neither of my Sims have ever used. I can't cut down on decoration, though. But I really can't imagine removing anything will make a real difference, especially since I have the option that hides stuff on other floors enabled.


Alternatively, you can place the hidden room markers in some rooms you don't use. I have an insanely huge house (full of CASt objects, 4 floors, 2 basement levels) and I use the hidden room markers in rooms I don't play with very often (spa, games room, empty bedrooms, second basement level / laboratory) and it's helped improve performance. I don't have a high-end computer (not anymore anyway) but I don't have prominent performance issues. I've done everything I can to ensure the game works as smoothly as possible; but sometimes when I play in huge worlds like Alpine County I reach the 3-3.5 GB limit and I can't save (though it only crashes once a year).
Mad Poster
Original Poster
#13 Old 28th May 2016 at 3:36 PM
That's actually a great idea. I think I'm gonna do that. Not now, I can't do it now, but I'll report back tomorrow evening.

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Mad Poster
Original Poster
#15 Old 28th May 2016 at 4:51 PM Last edited by Grijze Pilion : 28th May 2016 at 5:22 PM.
Quote: Originally posted by nitromon
But before you do all that, you might just want to try a test run by moving your sim to another house in the same game. Then save your megahouse into the bin and remove it from the game. See if you still have this RAM problem. This is to verify your house is indeed the problem.

I'm not gonna do that. No chance. I'm certain enough the house is the problem because even in a fresh and empty world, it would still use upwards of 2600 megs of RAM.

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Mad Poster
Original Poster
#16 Old 29th May 2016 at 9:19 PM Last edited by Grijze Pilion : 29th May 2016 at 9:41 PM.
It's looking good, guys. It's looking really good. I haven't unpaused yet but when I do, I don't think it's gonna get up to 3000.

Edit: It still goes above 3100 despite more than a third of the house being blacked out. This isn't fucking funny, game.

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