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Lab Assistant
#26 Old 18th Jun 2008 at 6:21 AM
dragon_tfm: The eyes are from here.
I used to use Helaene, but I like these better.

:D
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#27 Old 23rd Jun 2008 at 6:28 PM
Quote: Originally posted by RosalindP
It's very disappointing to find out when your male founder has daughters, they've all inherited thin lips that looked fine on him but terrible on them.


I figure that's just part of life. Some sims happen to be handsome and others happen to be ugly.


I have been considering making a lineage of really ugly sims and see how many generations the ugliness lasts before it gets diluted out with townie genes.
Lab Assistant
#28 Old 23rd Jun 2008 at 7:06 PM
yeah, about the thin lips thing...i had this alien sim, with huge eyes and super thin lips. then i bred her with a sim who was born a plant sim. mistake, lol. the kids are really ugly! they have huge eyes that turn up like crazy at the ends, their lips are as thin as their mom's, and they have the pointiest ears! so i decided that those parents aren't going to have any other kids, lol. i might even not let the kids reproduce...but maybe i will to see if i can dilute the ugly. shrug.

the other thing is the black hair. it drives me crazy. I introduced Regina Jitmakusol (black haired townie) into the line, and now every kid has black hair like three generations down, and i've been breeding them with blondes and red-heads!
#29 Old 23rd Jun 2008 at 7:18 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Moonstream27
I introduced Regina Jitmakusol (black haired townie) into the line, and now every kid has black hair like three generations down, and i've been breeding them with blondes and red-heads!


It is never clear to me how much the sims' genetics is like rl genetics.

If a sim with two blackhaired genes breeds with a blonde with two blonde genes, theoretically all the first generation will have black hair, but they will all be hybrids--in theory.

If one of the first generation of offspring breeds with a blonde, then the children should theoretically be 50% black and 50% blonde, right?

Maybe this is the sort of problem that "rolling the pacifier" was meant to fix.

Or maybe I just don't understand sim genetics.
Lab Assistant
#30 Old 23rd Jun 2008 at 7:55 PM
Quote: Originally posted by ElZorro
It is never clear to me how much the sims' genetics is like rl genetics.


lol, right there with you. it makes absolutely no sense to me...but still, the genetics is one of the reasons i like the game so much, so i guess i shouldn't complain, still i wish it could be a little closer to real genetics...seeing as that's kindof what i want to do with my life.

maybe we just don't understand the dominant/recessive system that maxis set up...it seems pretty complicated and untrue to reality, maybe if we had a better idea of the system, we'd understand it better, lol. i bet the creators never thought we'd get this indepth, lol.

this is interesting...i was browsing through my family tree, and i found a very intriguing atomic family. The mom, Wini, and dad, Frederick, both have black hair, everyone in the mom's family has black hair, but the dad, Frederick, had black hair only through his dad, his grandparents were blond and red. now the interesting part, is that they have three kids. The oldest is a blond boy, the middle is a black haired boy, and the youngest is a red headed girl. This just confused me even more, and i felt u guys would like to know about it. :D
#31 Old 24th Jun 2008 at 7:09 PM
I have a lame genetics question.

Let's say a child is born with black hair, but you use the mirror to get blonde or red hair. Does that change the genetics of the child or does that merely change the appearance without affecting the genes?
#32 Old 24th Jun 2008 at 7:38 PM
I'm pretty sure it only changes the appearance, and does nothing to the genes.
Scholar
#33 Old 24th Jun 2008 at 7:40 PM
I'm not sure, but I don't think it will change the genes. I've wondered about that too.

This could be easily tested. Make two sims with blonde/red hair in CAS, then change one of the sims hair colour to black, or both to black, and then see what colour the childs hair is. If its black, it does change the gene; but if its blonde, it doesn't.

I'm supporting the Optimist Camp for the Sims 4.




.
Lab Assistant
#34 Old 24th Jun 2008 at 10:28 PM
It doesn't change the genetics. It is much like when people dye their hair, it doesn't change the genes.
e3 d3 Ne2 Nd2 Nb3 Ng3
retired moderator
#35 Old 24th Jun 2008 at 11:27 PM
Quote: Originally posted by ElZorro
If one of the first generation of offspring breeds with a blonde, then the children should theoretically be 50% black and 50% blonde, right?

Yes, they will all be 50% blonde and 50% black genetically, but the expressed hair colour will always be black. So all the offspring will be dark haired but able to pass a blonde gene to their offspring.

Quote: Originally posted by Figgi
This could be easily tested. Make two sims with blonde/red hair in CAS, then change one of the sims hair colour to black, or both to black, and then see what colour the childs hair is. If its black, it does change the gene; but if its blonde, it doesn't.


If you change the hair colour in CAS it automatically overwrites the previous haircolour. So if you click the black hair button, that sim has black/black hair genes. If you change the haircolour in game though, it does nothing to the genetics. So you could have a genetically red sim with brown hair, who would pass red hair genes onto his children.
Test Subject
#36 Old 25th Jun 2008 at 2:36 AM
Quote: Originally posted by simsample
Yes, they will all be 50% blonde and 50% black genetically, but the expressed hair colour will always be black. So all the offspring will be dark haired but able to pass a blonde gene to their offspring.


I believe ElZorro is referring to the grandchildren of the CAS homozygous black and blonde haired sims, while you mistook him as asking about the children.

In theory, if the breeding original CAS sims are BB (homozygous black hair) and bb (homozygous blonde hair), then 100% of the first generation will be Bb (heterozygous black haired (with an unexpressed blonde gene)). This is what Simsample was referring to.
However, ElZorro asked if one of these first generation offspring (Bb, black hair expressed) were to breed with a blonde sim (would have to be bb, since blonde is recessive (in the case of the only two hair colors being black and blonde; ignoring red and brown for this example)), 50% of the children will be Bb (black haired, but with a blonde gene that is not expressed) and the other 50% bb (blonde).
That's only if sim genetics actually work like (simplified) human genetics. (I hope they do.)
e3 d3 Ne2 Nd2 Nb3 Ng3
retired moderator
#37 Old 25th Jun 2008 at 6:51 AM
Oops, sorry- I misread it! *rubs eyes* Anyway, no- the grandchildren, when produced from one black/ blonde parent and one blonde/ blonde parent will technically have a 50% chance of being blonde/ blonde. However, that doesn't mean that 50% of them will be blonde, as it is only a chance, so random distribution applies (or sadorandum distribution, maybe, if you don't roll the pacifier!)
#38 Old 26th Jun 2008 at 9:33 PM
I am not sure whether this is the right location for this question, but....

I have heard people say that all the infants look alike. You have to wait until they grow up a bit before you can evaluate their genetics. But whenever one of my sims gives birth, I try to guess the gender from the baby's face and I am very often right. Have I just been lucky or is there a slight difference between the eyebrows of male and female infants?
Lab Assistant
#39 Old 26th Jun 2008 at 9:51 PM
Quote: Originally posted by ElZorro
I am not sure whether this is the right location for this question, but....

I have heard people say that all the infants look alike. You have to wait until they grow up a bit before you can evaluate their genetics. But whenever one of my sims gives birth, I try to guess the gender from the baby's face and I am very often right. Have I just been lucky or is there a slight difference between the eyebrows of male and female infants?


i haven't noticed the boy/girl thing, but i think that most of the babies do look the same. (with the exception of eyebrow color and alien babies) bc i had these babies with the weirdest genes (i used inTeen to have kids with the Father Time NPC) and they looked totally normal as babies, but the second they grew into toddlers their faces got all distorted and mutilated. i was like...that's different...i had never noticed that all the babies looked the same, but apparently they do!
Test Subject
#40 Old 29th Jun 2008 at 7:48 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Moonstream27
i haven't noticed the boy/girl thing, but i think that most of the babies do look the same. (with the exception of eyebrow color and alien babies) bc i had these babies with the weirdest genes (i used inTeen to have kids with the Father Time NPC) and they looked totally normal as babies, but the second they grew into toddlers their faces got all distorted and mutilated. i was like...that's different...i had never noticed that all the babies looked the same, but apparently they do!


The face of the baby sim does not give gender away. However, I've noticed that the pose the baby has in their icon does give it away. For example, if the baby's icon comes up where they are turned to the side and looking over their shoulder, it's always a girl. If the icon comes up where the baby is looking straight with it's arms slightly away from the body, it's always a boy.
Mad Poster
#41 Old 29th Jun 2008 at 8:15 PM
The black hair domination is kind of annoying, so at the moment I have a few families who I'm trying to keep from marrying people with black hair.

What's the rule when it comes to skin colour. Shouldn't the kid be medium if one parent is black and one white? So far I'v always had black babies if the parents were of different colour - I don't remember ever having a medium baby. The only exception to the rule has been that one of my cas sims who's white, married Armando Cox from the gardening club - who's black. Their doughter, is really white. Probably the mom's skin colour. I'm not using any custom skins, learned my lesson there, but default replacements. So that should not effect the genetics. Is it possible to actually get a medium coloured kid in this game?
#42 Old 30th Jun 2008 at 2:14 AM
Quote: Originally posted by purplestarz2006
The face of the baby sim does not give gender away. However, I've noticed that the pose the baby has in their icon does give it away. For example, if the baby's icon comes up where they are turned to the side and looking over their shoulder, it's always a girl. If the icon comes up where the baby is looking straight with it's arms slightly away from the body, it's always a boy.


Aha! Maybe my subconscious was using that as a cue. Or maybe I did just have a lucky streak.
Test Subject
#43 Old 30th Jun 2008 at 12:50 PM
Quote: Originally posted by ani_

What's the rule when it comes to skin colour. Shouldn't the kid be medium if one parent is black and one white? So far I'v always had black babies if the parents were of different colour - I don't remember ever having a medium baby. The only exception to the rule has been that one of my cas sims who's white, married Armando Cox from the gardening club - who's black. Their doughter, is really white. Probably the mom's skin colour. I'm not using any custom skins, learned my lesson there, but default replacements. So that should not effect the genetics. Is it possible to actually get a medium coloured kid in this game?


I think it is that the kid gets a randomly assigned skintone within the range of the parents? So, if mom's 1 (lightest) and dad's 4 (darkest) the kid can come out with 1, 2, 3 OR 4? Something like that.

I've had children come out with medium skintones if the parents were different colours. But not that often, mostly it's either the mom's or the dad's skintone for some reason.
#44 Old 30th Jun 2008 at 5:41 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Fantasyrogue
I think it is that the kid gets a randomly assigned skintone within the range of the parents? So, if mom's 1 (lightest) and dad's 4 (darkest) the kid can come out with 1, 2, 3 OR 4? Something like that.


Yes, that's my understanding of how it works, too.

Quote: Originally posted by Fantasyrogue
I've had children come out with medium skintones if the parents were different colours. But not that often, mostly it's either the mom's or the dad's skintone for some reason.


If it were real life, I'd argue that it means that all the genes are on the same chromosome and so Mendel's assumption of independent assortment doesn't hold. In the game, it is probably just the way the programmers set up the randomizing aspects. The programmers probably thought it was more charming to have offspring who resembled one of the parents.
Scholar
#45 Old 30th Jun 2008 at 7:15 PM
Whenever I've had two sims have kids where one Sim was darker than the other, it was always either medium or the darkest. Only once or twice the lightest skin colour. I'd say that genes do play a part when choosing skintone. Take alien skins for example; a child of an alien sim can be normal but then pass on the alien skintone.

I'm supporting the Optimist Camp for the Sims 4.




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#46 Old 30th Jun 2008 at 7:33 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Figgi
I'd say that genes do play a part when choosing skintone. Take alien skins for example; a child of an alien sim can be normal but then pass on the alien skintone.


Does a sim then have three genes? A maternal gene, a paternal gene, and, for lack of a better term, a display gene? I hypothesize this because if you change the hair color in the mirror, the computer has to remember what that sim's hair color is now and what it was before.

Or maybe sims don't need maternal and paternal genes. Maybe the program knows to look up the family tree for each sim. So for your alien skin example, the parent has a gene for a human skin tone, buit some percentage of the time the program looks back up the family tree and borrows one of the grandparents' genes.
Scholar
#47 Old 30th Jun 2008 at 7:36 PM
What do you mean by a display gene?

In terms of genes, there is only two. A sim could have a paternal very pale skin gene, and a maternal very dark skin gene, and it will probably be the maternal gene which is dominant, your "display gene".

It is only the dominant gene that displays itself, however in skintone I suspect that the recessive gene could influence the dominant gene, but in terms of hair/eye colour genes only the dominant gene presents itself.

Edit; The Sims child will only have the grandparents features if the parent has those features as either recessive or dominant genes.

I'm supporting the Optimist Camp for the Sims 4.




.
#48 Old 30th Jun 2008 at 7:41 PM
Quote:
Her daughter had three pretty girls and two of them were made with ugly Komei Tellerman.


guess I have more fun with ocasional surprises (wow, a pretty daughter of KOMEI!).


all my sims that have married komei have had amazing looking kids... i think under his uglyness theres really good genes...

my tip - if you have one sim with custom skin.....all of there kids and on will have a costom skin... it gets old fast.
#49 Old 30th Jun 2008 at 7:48 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Figgi
What do you mean by a display gene?


I still haven't done my experimental test, so I might be talking through my hat.

Let's say that when I am next playing TS2, I create a black-haired couple: Biff and Twinkie Smith.

Step one: produce a child as a control. It should have black hair.

Step two: change Biff and Twinkie to blondes. If what sumpsychochic said in her post is right, they still should be black-haired deep inside, even though they now display as blonde. The display gene is not really a gene. It's an storage of an environmentally altered variable.

Step three: produce a second child. If the second child is black haired, the existence of something like the display gene is demonstrated. If the child is blonde, then the mirror must alter DNA.

Part of why I haven't bothered with this experiment is that I think sumpsychochic is right. Consider, for example, the skin tones for plantsims and vampires. Those skin tones are not passed down and so information about them must be stored someplace outside the normal parental genes.

Does that make sense?
Lab Assistant
#50 Old 30th Jun 2008 at 8:59 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Figgi
What do you mean by a display gene?

In terms of genes, there is only two. A sim could have a paternal very pale skin gene, and a maternal very dark skin gene, and it will probably be the maternal gene which is dominant, your "display gene".

It is only the dominant gene that displays itself, however in skintone I suspect that the recessive gene could influence the dominant gene, but in terms of hair/eye colour genes only the dominant gene presents itself.

Edit; The Sims child will only have the grandparents features if the parent has those features as either recessive or dominant genes.



That holds true for eyes, but for skintones it does not. You could have a mother with S1(lightest) skin and a father with S4 skin(darkest) and the child can have S2 skin(medium), but his genes to pass down would be S1 and S4 I believe.
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