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Inventor
Original Poster
#1 Old 7th Feb 2010 at 10:21 AM Last edited by Cocomama : 7th Feb 2010 at 10:42 AM.
Default Ageconversion questions.
I am trying to make an ageconversion from an TS3 Adult female top for elders.

These are the steps I did, based on what I used to do for a TS2 mesh:
-Loading the EFmesh LOD1 first, than the AFmesh Lod1+morphs.
-Made a duplicate from AFmesh Lod1, renamed that to reference, hide the reference and all the AF morphs,
-moved the EFmesh to the top again, made alterations to AFmesh Lod1 to fit EFmesh LOD1 using the Unimesh plugins.
-Copy+pasted the comments from the EFmesh to the AFmesh and renamed the AF-geom to GEOM00 and removed the EFmesh. Used MMangle.
-Removed all but the GEOM00 mesh and I exported the Geom00 mesh overwriting the Lod1.simgeom that I exported from Postal.
-Loaded the 3 new LODs in CTUpackage and tested in game. Looks OK-viewing out gives some skincoloured spots, so Lod2 needs check.

Questions:

-Are those steps correct? Should I first have imported the EF morphs too?
-How to export the morphs out of the Milkshape savefiles and into my package?

Edit to add I want to use the BodyMorphmaker and found this interesting thread
http://www.modthesims.info/showthread.php?t=384619

Any help is much appriciated!!
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Sockpuppet
#2 Old 7th Feb 2010 at 5:30 PM
Close
I have not compared the adult to elder yet so i do not know wat changes you need to make but i suspect you need to edit the waist and neck.
This is how i you would do it:
Import the elder mesh and all its morphs
Import the adult mesh and put it on top of the list in meshgroup tab.
Then import its morphs.(put the adult base mesh back in the correct order when done )
Fix the neck and waist for each mesh(base adult to base elder/fat to fat etc)
Fix the comments
Delete the elder meshes and export the edited adult mesh and its morphs.
The base mesh you can import in your package.
You now should do the same for the lod2 and lod3 meshes...
When done you use BMM to make new Bblend and Bgeo files and import these into your package.
Its a time consuming progress im afraid. Succes!!!
Inventor
Original Poster
#3 Old 7th Feb 2010 at 7:01 PM
Thank you Base1980, that is what I did. Instead of altering all the morphs one by one, I have used MMangle from Wes.

Its these two parts I have trouble with:
-export the morphs and
-When done you use BMM to make new Bblend and Bgeo files and import these into your package.
Sockpuppet
#4 Old 7th Feb 2010 at 8:47 PM Last edited by Base1980 : 7th Feb 2010 at 9:05 PM.
The morphs can only be exported when the base mesh is at the top of the meshgroup list.
So you must export every morph in combination with the base mesh, with the correct comments ofcourse.

I usually clone a outfit first with CTU, attache the updated base meshes, fix textures etc etc.
I save the package in a non game folder and use explorer or other proggy to copy that file into the game folder.
I then look ingame how it looks(set the sim to default bodyshape, unfit) with CTU still open.
The game will then generate my thumbnails wich i extract with Postal and edit with my logo(my name)
I go back to CTU and import the custom thumbs and save the package again(use save as) in my gamefolder(overwriting the 1st)

Writing this down because it is possible the package gets corrupt after you want to revisit it when you have added the files generated with BMM.
I also had several times a corrupt thumnailcache wich did'n't allow me to export the thumbs correctly

The meshes,
If you all did it correct you have 12 meshes, 3 base meshes(already loaded with CTU)
and all the morphs that come with them.(fit/fat and thin)

Open your package with Postal(choose show nmapnames)
You will see that CTU already generated custom Bblend(new instance#) files but that they are still linked to the default Bgeo files(files responsible for the sliders)
So we need to update the package with new Bgeo files and update the existing Bblend files with the correct link to the custom Bgeo files.

Start BMM and fill in the name of the first morph you see listed in the first Bblend file, usually the fit state.(the complete name aint that imported, just fit will do)
On the 2nd box you fill in the same instance # as the fit Bblend file has.
In the boxes below you enter(surf) the link to the lod1 fit morph/the link to the lod2 fitmorph and the link to the lod3 fitmorph(the ones you created with Milkshape)
When done you save the new Bblend file and the new Bgeo file.

Go back to Postal and import(add) the new Bgeo file you just created
Click it and go to the hex tab and import the same file again.
click the resource details tab and you will see the filename that has a correct group and instance number.
Copy(ctrl C) and paste(ctr V) both the group and instance numbers in the boxes below.
Click commit when done
If you did it ok you will see it displays as Bgeo file
Go back to the fit Bblend file, go to the hex tab and import your new Bblend file(the one generated with BMM)
click commit, your done with the fit files.

Repeat the whole story for the fat and thin file.

Note,
If you want to edit textures with CTU after you have added the Bgeo files a small bug appears.
You can use CTU to add new textures but earlier changed/added textures will stay in the package, you can use S3PE to delete those files.
I also use S3PE to compress the updated Bblend and Bgeo files again

Edit,
Another thing you might run into are the vertID's, i do not know how the elder meshes are numbered but you might need Wes his autonum tool to renumber the meshes
Oh, the elders do not have a fit state do they? I forgot...
But it basicly works the same(ik ga t niet opnieuw schrijven hoor :D)
Inventor
Original Poster
#5 Old 7th Feb 2010 at 10:41 PM Last edited by Cocomama : 7th Feb 2010 at 11:41 PM.
OMG thank you so much Base1980, that is so marvelous!!
It will take some time to read and understand everything, and it is great you took the time to write everything down.

Yes Elder meshes have a fit state too, at least the top I am working on has.
I did not check the vertID's yet, I assumed they where the same as the adult ones.

Sorry, I still do not understand this exactly:
Quote
So you must export every morph in combination with the base mesh, with the correct comments ofcourse.

Do you mean I have to export the morph including the base mesh, I mean group 1 is GEOM00 and the second group is one of the morphs?
As in I have the basemesh and all of its morphs in Milkshape, I group delete all but the base + 1 morph and export that, overwriting the morph.simgeom I exported with Postal/s3pe? And repeat that for all the other morphs, everytime including the base mesh?

Edit to add that in Cmar's BMM tutorial it is:
Skip the first group (Geom 00) and save the second group (Geom 01)

Skip as in delete?
I tryed that, and I was able to export the morph (without the basemesh), with Geom plug-in??????

First thing I'll do tomorrow is finish Cmar's tutorial and start over with this eftop, because I lost track of what is what, in which copy of which Lod. :D
Sockpuppet
#6 Old 7th Feb 2010 at 11:31 PM
You have the base mesh ontop(meshgroups) and the 3 morphs below.
Then you choose export.
The exporter gives you a popup that says you have to export each meshgroup as seperate, so you click ok and export the base mesh first, save it as base, then a new popup appears for wich askes you if you want to save the morph, click ok and save the morph, new popup, save the 2nd morph and finally the 3rd.
Name the morphs lod1fit/lod1fat/lod1thin(lod2fit/lod2fat/lod2thin and lod3fit/fat/thin)


The new morphs you only need to make the Bgeo files and are not included in the package.
The new Bgeo(made with BMM) stores the data of the morphs and uses the base mesh to change the bodyshape(sliders)
Inventor
Original Poster
#7 Old 7th Feb 2010 at 11:53 PM
Oh dear you answerred while I was editing my post!

Thank you Base, yes now I finally understand how to export and why Cmar uses the word skip.
Because all the morphs are seperate files that you load in seperately, I assumed you had to export them seperately too, and I deleted all but 1 and never saw that pop-up.
Sockpuppet
#8 Old 8th Feb 2010 at 12:14 AM
Ok, keep in mind Cmar makes new Bblend files(new instance numbers) while i use the ones CTU generates, wich i think is a bit easier and allows you to revisit/edit the package with CTU.
Inventor
Original Poster
#9 Old 21st Feb 2010 at 11:36 AM Last edited by Cocomama : 21st Feb 2010 at 8:37 PM. Reason: Deleted RAR
Sorry it took so long, still working on it.
I had to set up a working space on another PC, because Postal and BBM did not work/display right on my TS3 PC

Quote: Originally posted by Base1980
Open your package with Postal(choose show nmapnames)
You will see that CTU already generated custom Bblend(new instance#) files but that they are still linked to the default Bgeo files(files responsible for the sliders)
So we need to update the package with new Bgeo files and update the existing Bblend files with the correct link to the custom Bgeo files.
....
Go back to Postal and import(add) the new Bgeo file you just created
Click it and go to the hex tab and import the same file again.
click the resource details tab and you will see the filename that has a correct group and instance number.
Copy(ctrl C) and paste(ctr V) both the group and instance numbers in the boxes below.
Click commit when done
If you did it ok you will see it displays as Bgeo file
Go back to the fit Bblend file, go to the hex tab and import your new Bblend file(the one generated with BMM)
click commit, your done with the fit files.

Repeat the whole story for the fat and thin file.


I've tryed so hard, but I keep getting wrong results. It is this part in Postal I have trouble with.
-After I added (Workspace->add Resource)the new Bgeo it already is displayed as Bgeo and the group and instance numbers are already filled in.
So I just clicked the commit button.
-After importing the new Bblend there is no Commit button under the hex tab, so here did go to the Resource details tab to Commit and Commit again under BGeo Filename

-What to do with the _special, I have no new Bgeo and BBlend for them??????????

I've attached the package and all the files I've used. Could you please take a look at them??
I must have misunderstood something simple again
Screenshots
Sockpuppet
#10 Old 21st Feb 2010 at 6:38 PM
wich version of BMM are you using?
I am still using the 2nd version wich has just one screen.
The only thing i miss are the names of the blend files itself, i usually name them fit, fat and thin when filling them in the top box when in BMM and those names are used in the Bblend files, yours are all called ''unnamed slider''
something i never seen before....
Not sure tho if this causes the problem.


Oh, do NOT click the commit button in the Bgeo filename tab of the Bblend file!!
This will undo the earlier commit on the resource tab(only use the commit button on the resource tab)
Reimport the 3 custom Bblend files again.(i tried it and noticed the changes in the hex file)
This will prolly fix it

There is a Bblend file for the pregnant state(special) so if you want to include a Bgeo for it you need to make a pregnant morph for it first.
I leave it untouched with tops or bottoms if the original doesn't have a pregnant state.(the game will not use it anyway if it isn't set to maternity right?)
Inventor
Original Poster
#11 Old 21st Feb 2010 at 8:31 PM Last edited by Cocomama : 22nd Feb 2010 at 10:14 PM.
Poging 9
Still not right, she is losing her head when she gets fat.
I use version 2.0 MorphMaker, it is the only version in the Downloads.
I did named my morphs fit fat and thin in MorphMaker, and when I import them in Postal they have that name, untill I Commit after import the new Bblend.

When I try View Bgeo there I get a message, added picture.
Screenshots
Sockpuppet
#12 Old 22nd Feb 2010 at 5:38 AM Last edited by Base1980 : 22nd Feb 2010 at 6:26 AM.
I am a bit puzzled about the neck, the only thing i can think of right now is that you started with a adult package and have set it to elder?
You need to clone a elder outfit/mesh to start with as those have the correct skeletons.
you could try to update your existing meshes with the correct adult skeleton(last TGI reference in the comments)but i personally would use a elder top to start with (if you didn't already.)
If you are starting over you can open 2 versions of CTU and simply copy all the necesarry texturelinks from the adult outfit and paste them in the boxes for the elder outfit.
Also make sure you update the designes if the top has more then one recolor option.


Oh, you did compare the adult and elder neck within the meshes?
It is possible you have to fix those also.
I didn't had the time to fully check your package, got to go in a sec.
Inventor
Original Poster
#13 Old 22nd Feb 2010 at 10:19 PM
Something is not rigth with the EFmesh I started with, using another EFmesh gives different results with the neck. Maybe the way I used MMangle was wrong, only parts of the morph meshes were changed/adjusted.
I'll do another attempt later, its a schoolholiday this week, so not much time to work in peace.
I'll be back!!
Ms. Byte (Deceased)
#14 Old 22nd Feb 2010 at 11:14 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Cocomama
Poging 9
Still not right, she is losing her head when she gets fat.
I use version 2.0 MorphMaker, it is the only version in the Downloads.
I did named my morphs fit fat and thin in MorphMaker, and when I import them in Postal they have that name, untill I Commit after import the new Bblend.

When I try View Bgeo there I get a message, added picture.


If you are trying to import into a CTU package using Postal, in many cases the TGI gets borked because of the way CTU constructs the package index and the way Postal, and s3pe, for that matter, (mis)handle those indexes. I found I had to export everything in the CTU package, make a new, empty package, and import everything.

Or you can use the 'Add morphs to package' button in MorphMaker to add your morph to the CTU package and automatically fix the links and TGIs. Follow directions and save as a new package.
Sockpuppet
#15 Old 23rd Feb 2010 at 1:27 AM
The message is normal with custom meshes, Postal will search for it in the game files but cant find it.
Ill try to make a quick conversion myself to see for myself



Quote: Originally posted by CmarNYC
If you are trying to import into a CTU package using Postal, in many cases the TGI gets borked because of the way CTU constructs the package index and the way Postal, and s3pe, for that matter, (mis)handle those indexes. I found I had to export everything in the CTU package, make a new, empty package, and import everything.

Or you can use the 'Add morphs to package' button in MorphMaker to add your morph to the CTU package and automatically fix the links and TGIs. Follow directions and save as a new package.


This only happens when you add new Bblend files with a new instance ID, when using the files CTU generated all goes well.
I made more then 20 custom packages this way and never had any issues with it.
Ms. Byte (Deceased)
#16 Old 23rd Feb 2010 at 12:56 PM Last edited by CmarNYC : 23rd Feb 2010 at 1:37 PM.
Quote: Originally posted by Base1980
This only happens when you add new Bblend files with a new instance ID, when using the files CTU generated all goes well.
I made more then 20 custom packages this way and never had any issues with it.


Don't you import BGEO files with new instance IDs? Maybe the index problem doesn't happen with CTU packages for an entire new item of clothing. I've never done that, just added pregnant morphs.

Still, for many people it would be easier to let MorphMaker do the work rather than going through the import procedure in Postal. There can be more than one effective way to do something. I haven't had a problem opening the resulting packages in CTU but I don't work with them nearly as much as you do. If that's an issue I can easily revise MorphMaker to use the CTU numbers for the BBlends instead of its own.

If you're still using BMM which I had up for beta testing you haven't seen the final version of MorphMaker I submitted for official download, which is what most people here will be using. This may be causing some confusion.
Sockpuppet
#17 Old 23rd Feb 2010 at 4:18 PM Last edited by Base1980 : 23rd Feb 2010 at 4:38 PM.
I am using the same ID as the existing Bblend file to create the Bgeo files.
Since its another group they wont conflict.
Its just a matter of copying those from the Bblend file and past them in BMM.
When i am done creating the custom Bblend and Bgeo files with that ID i add the Bgeo's and update the Bblend files(by importing them in the hex tab)

I did try your beta version but prefer version 1.1 as it is easier to work with.
Haven't tried the latest one.
But i am writing a tut so i better check it out or point to your thread on how to add the Bblend and Bgeo files.
Ms. Byte (Deceased)
#18 Old 23rd Feb 2010 at 9:58 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Base1980
I am using the same ID as the existing Bblend file to create the Bgeo files.


Right - forgot the instance IDs are normally the same. That's why you're not getting the import glitchiness with Postal or s3pe, since you're not importing a new instance ID.

Everything before MorphMaker was basically a beta - it's got a lot of changes.
Inventor
Original Poster
#19 Old 23rd Feb 2010 at 10:00 PM
Ah, good news you are writing a tutorial!
I'll wait for that, at version 12 still not succeeded in making working morphs.
Ofcourse I've tryed CmarNYC's directions for adding the morphs to the package, but I missed where and when to do what and the buttons to click.
Somewhere I must have missed some information, that to you two is so obvious, that it is not mentioned anymore.
Some of those elder female meshes I have been looking at in the fullbuild0, do not have complete lod and morph sets. Is it possible that they are somehow are supposed to use adult female mesh parts?
Sockpuppet
#20 Old 23rd Feb 2010 at 10:13 PM Last edited by Base1980 : 24th Feb 2010 at 4:49 PM.
yup, they use the adult mesh but with diffrent morphs and skeletons.
I made a tutorial(sort of) that explains it all(exept the bgeo)
Converted the adult male ninja to child size.
Coco, i rebuild the Bblend files with version 1.1 and there still was the gap at the neck.
So i imported the elder female nudetop and its morphs in MS and the neck has a mismatch on the fatmorph.
It is also scaled very big, i suspect you accidently scaled the neck with it?
Both fit and thin are ok

Cmar, dont know if you had a look at the files but while the correct names have filled in in the Bblend file it misses the correct names.
It keeps saying non named slider.

the tutorial is here:
http://www.modthesims.info/showthread.php?t=392850
Inventor
Original Poster
#21 Old 24th Feb 2010 at 7:29 AM Last edited by Cocomama : 24th Feb 2010 at 10:32 AM.
Oh sorry Base, I already corrected the wrong fat in the Lod 1 in version 10 I think.
The elder female nudetop does not have a Lod3, I used the strapless bra.
Made no difference, I'm going to do your tutorial now, thanks!

Edit: Now I am totally puzzled, your tutorial CUbodyNinja has correct Fat morph now, so the Bgeo and Bblend adding part is working with the MM 2.0 version. I have to redo and check the part with making a new CTU package for my elder top.
Sockpuppet
#22 Old 24th Feb 2010 at 11:35 AM Last edited by Base1980 : 24th Feb 2010 at 12:15 PM.
well, i did fix the neck also and in cas i ended up with a minor mismatch.
see screenshot
I also fixed the normals on the neck, something you still need to do?
Another thing i noticed is that it has the wrong normalmap, you see the bra comming through.
Got to fix that also.
Its the first TGI reference in the comments box from the mesh.
You must replace it with the one from the adult.

edit,
Now i replaced the skeleton with the elder nude top, still no diffrence......
Screenshots
Inventor
Original Poster
#23 Old 24th Feb 2010 at 1:57 PM
Morphs are working!!! Yeahhh.
So it was the making of a new CTU package where I went wrong.

Yes, that fat mesh is messed up, even after correcting it, still is not right. Maybe because I forgot to check the normals again?
I did not know about the Comments either, I simply copied the whole Elder meshes comment over.
When I can find time I will start all over again with that top.

I have used Weshowe's MMangle to make the morphs for every Lod, and somehow only the fat lod1 did not MMangled OK. to fit right to the elder head/neck.
My guess is that the elder and adult fat shape differ to much, to use MMangle for that.
Ms. Byte (Deceased)
#24 Old 24th Feb 2010 at 4:03 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Base1980
yup, they use the adult mesh but with diffrent morphs and skeletons.
I made a tutorial(sort of) that explains it all(exept the bgeo)
Converted the adult male ninja to child size.
Coco, i rebuild the Bblend files with version 1.1 and there still was the gap at the neck.
So i imported the elder female nudetop and its morphs in MS and the neck has a mismatch on the fatmorph.
It is also scaled very big, i suspect you accidently scaled the neck with it?
Both fit and thin are ok

Cmar, dont know if you had a look at the files but while the correct names have filled in in the Bblend file it misses the correct names.
It keeps saying non named slider.

the tutorial is here:
http://www.modthesims.info/showthread.php?t=392850


Sorry, didn't grab the package before Coco deleted it so I'm not sure what you mean. I think when you open the package with Postal or S3PE there's no resource name for the BGEO file, just a default 'unnamed slider'? If you use the same instance ID as the Bblend that shouldn't happen - the name map is just a list of instance IDs and names so the files are identified by instance. Makes no real difference except for the convenience of being able to see which file is which.
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Original Poster
#25 Old 26th Feb 2010 at 1:05 PM Last edited by Cocomama : 9th Jun 2010 at 5:12 PM.
Sorry CmarNYC, I deleted them because they had the wrong fatmesh.
I (mis)used the ef morphmeshes with a necklace for an ef base without.

Base1980, that is maybe also why there was a little bump left in the neck. I want to play a little more with the MMangle plug-in from Wes, lovely toy!

Making Bgeo and Bblend are very easy with Cmar's MorphMaker. The "unnamed slider" works. I want to try her directions on a mesh/package too, and making a vpxy.
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