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Banned
#3576 Old 30th Nov 2011 at 11:56 AM
I wonder now - I have that huge irrational fear of seeing two men fucking each other but otherwise have neutral-to-good feelings about gays... am I homophobic?
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Mad Poster
#3577 Old 30th Nov 2011 at 12:01 PM
Well, I certainly have no "phobia" of gays. Disgust, yes. Fear, nope! Hatred, nuh-uh. They have the same rights (here in the US at any rate) as anyone else as enumerated by our Constitution.

If I had said the same thing about gays and their supporters ("I will CRUSH them," etc.) I'd be accused of hate speech. Something to think about.

While I believe there is truth in stereotypes, there's virtually none to the stereotype of the Bible-thumper purposely going around beating up gays. Trust me, very few of us are anything like those Westboro nuts.

And while this thread is to vent: it annoys me how people act like children. You tell them that what they're doing is wrong, they whine, "You hate me" or "You're just afraid of it!" Sorry, not buying.

At any rate, I don't hate gays, but I find homosexuality disgusting. I am not about to change my thoughts to suit the PC police. There is nothing to overcome. And "prejudice" is pre-judging...and lots of times this is not even the case. The prejudice here is coming from those who use the term "homophobia." You really think there's fear involved? There's not! Actually listen to why we feel the way we do instead of prejudging us, please. Labels and mind-games do not help.

There's no hate coming from me. I don't *have* to like someone's actions.

Why is it that people scream for "diversity" yet we all have to think the same way or be labeled as bigoted, homophobic, etc.? So much for diversity of thought! You want to be tolerant, then be tolerant of the fact that people have different likes and dislikes. As long as we're not going around persecuting people (sharing what you think is not persecution), what's the problem?
Banned
#3578 Old 30th Nov 2011 at 12:08 PM
Is there any base for you to feel homosexuality is disgusting? Are your reasons rational? Irrational? You don't like to think of them having sex? You feel that true love - whatever it is - is exclusive to male+female relationships?
Banned
#3579 Old 30th Nov 2011 at 1:33 PM Last edited by 5M0K3 : 30th Nov 2011 at 1:47 PM.
Quote: Originally posted by AlexandraSpears
So are you saying that no one is allowed to have any thoughts or feelings that can be considered "homophobic"?

I despise thought police. You have your opinions, and I am surely entitled to my thoughts!
Yeah you're most definitely entitled to your opinion, but if you're homophobic or believe gays (or any group of people) should have less rights, then I have the right to say "I don't like homophobes", and if you are a homophobe - which it sounds like you are, especially considered you say that gay people "disgust" you - then whatever, I can't change you, nor am I trying to, but I can most definitely express my distaste for people that believe and group of people is "disgusting".

And yes, the technical term for homophobia is to be afraid of gays, but many people use it for someone who does not like gays, plain and simple.
Instructor
#3580 Old 30th Nov 2011 at 4:22 PM
Quote: Originally posted by JNAS2006
He has been blocked from my facebook and he won't be unblocked until he grows up into a big boy with a little respect for his elders(and women). As long as he doesn't try to repeat the offense I'm not going to make the ban permanent or tell his parents, because he's my cousin and if possible I'd prefer not to create a permanent rift between us, I DID however take screenshots of the conversation for proof later if it's needed. But like I said he was a good kid once, and we used to be close, I just don't know where he went wrong


Cool. I think the issue I would see is any teen who would send messages like this to a close relative, might also be doing so to other gays/people and bullying them as well.Thats why I mention talking to the parents.
Lab Assistant
#3581 Old 30th Nov 2011 at 4:45 PM
Quote: Originally posted by SimsLover50
Cool. I think the issue I would see is any teen who would send messages like this to a close relative, might also be doing so to other gays/people and bullying them as well.Thats why I mention talking to the parents.


Good point, I honestly wouldn't put it past him. Like I said I'd prefer NOT to cause a permanent rift in my family, but I may have to if he's bullying others. I'll talk to his brother and see if he's noticed him bullying anyone at school. The thing that bothers me the most is so many people think this is something I(or other gays/lesbians/trans/etc.) choose and it's really not, I TRIED to be "straight" through most of high school because I was raised in a Christian home and was terrified my family would turn on me. I suffered severe depression and suicidal tendencies until I decided to just give up and be who I am. Saying you don't like me because I'm a lesbian is like me saying I don't like someone because they have brown eyes, it's part of me just as much as my eye color or the color of my skin.
Instructor
#3582 Old 30th Nov 2011 at 5:53 PM
Quote: Originally posted by JNAS2006
Good point, I honestly wouldn't put it past him. Like I said I'd prefer NOT to cause a permanent rift in my family, but I may have to if he's bullying others. I'll talk to his brother and see if he's noticed him bullying anyone at school. The thing that bothers me the most is so many people think this is something I(or other gays/lesbians/trans/etc.) choose and it's really not, I TRIED to be "straight" through most of high school because I was raised in a Christian home and was terrified my family would turn on me. I suffered severe depression and suicidal tendencies until I decided to just give up and be who I am. Saying you don't like me because I'm a lesbian is like me saying I don't like someone because they have brown eyes, it's part of me just as much as my eye color or the color of my skin.


I totally see where you are coming from with not wanting to cause a rift. It is unfortunate you have suffered because of your family. I've seen that amongst my only family with extreme anti-gay sentiment amongst the more religious members so I do understand that too. I was raised with this sentiment, but thankfully was exposed in my later young adulthood to gays in a positive way by a sister who helped me get beyond the prejudices I was raised with.


Usually people with exteme viewpoints about gays are getting it from their family. I don't know if that is the case with your nephew but perhaps someone in the family has given him this viewpoint.

He could get into serious trouble if he is harrassing or bullying others because of their sexual orientation- and- he needs to be educated not to send rude emails which bully as there could be legal consequences..

I hope for his sake and yours this is an isolated incident, and hope things go well with your marriage. =-)
Instructor
#3583 Old 30th Nov 2011 at 8:43 PM
Quote: Originally posted by AlexandraSpears
So are you saying that no one is allowed to have any thoughts or feelings that can be considered "homophobic"?

I despise thought police. You have your opinions, and I am surely entitled to my thoughts!


I see nothing wrong with having your own opinions but what you say if we replace homophobic with racist? are you saying that people have a right to those opinions too?

because if you are then fine I can understand that as an opinion but if one is okay in your mind and not the other then I see that as a problem.

Quote: Originally posted by AlexandraSpears
Well, I certainly have no "phobia" of gays. Disgust, yes.


Am I the only one who thinks that saying gays disgust you is just as bad and possibly the same as saying you hate them? infact I think its worse hate gets thrown around a LOT without people truly meaning it. in that sense Using Disgust Seems like its worse not better.
Mad Poster
#3584 Old 30th Nov 2011 at 9:25 PM Last edited by VerDeTerre : 30th Nov 2011 at 9:42 PM.
Imagine having a child who was born deformed and retarded. Would it be acceptable to express to the mother of that child that you found it repulsive? No, it would not. It is not acceptable, it is not a loving thing to do. Is it acceptable to express to the mother of a homosexual that you find her child repulsive? No, it is not. It is a mean and hateful thing to do.

Feelings of "repulsion" in this case come from a lack of familiarity or acceptance. Most people used to respond that way to mentally, emotionally, and physically handicapped people and some still do. But I see kids today, who have gone to school with these individuals since childhood, accept them as part of their classes and their schools and make allowances for their disabilities. There was a time when most people considered it disgusting for a non-Caucasian to marry a Caucasian, and some people still do. But more and more that is becoming accepted and seen as something normal.

To say you find gay people "disgusting" is prejudice under the definition of "an unreasonable feeling, opinion, or attitude" about a group of people.

Since I have friends and family members that are homosexual, I find your "feelings of digust" hurtful. Never mind P.C. Never mind what you consider "thought police". You have told ME that you find people I hold dear disgusting. That's a mean thing to say.

Addicted to The Sims since 2000.
Instructor
#3585 Old 30th Nov 2011 at 9:52 PM
I'm not quite sure how people think heterosexual sex is any less "disgusting" than homosexual sex. Sex is sex, it's not suddenly going to become cleaner if you are doing it inside a church approved heterosexual union. Let's all face the facts here and stop being squeamish about things. It's almost always sweaty and there is usually an exchange of bodily fluids and most of the time it's advisable that one showers afterwards. That holds true whether it's two men or two women or one man and one woman.
Instructor
#3586 Old 30th Nov 2011 at 10:34 PM
Gays are up against a lot of obstacles to their heterosexual counterparts who often view things from a more priviliged position in society. It is difficult for a heterosexual to fully understand the things a gay person faces everyday because people aren't descriminating against them because of their orientation. Example: Gays are told they are sinful, evil, going to hell, and disgusting and cannot marry.

I think the step to understanding is to put yourself in a person's shoes and at least try to understand their point of view. The key to opening your mind is to be happy for others.
Banned
#3587 Old 30th Nov 2011 at 11:03 PM
In my opinion, "disgust" is just as nasty of a word as "hate". In many cases, "disgust" is used to be even worse than hate. Every day I hear people "I hate you!" (not so much at work, more so when I pick up my nephew from school) but rarely do I hear "You disgust me." and usually, "you disgust me" causes far more hurt feelings than "I hate you". Using the word "disgust" and using the phrase "It makes me uncomfortable to think about homosexual sex" are two very different ways of putting something. Saying gays disgust you comes off as "I hate gays and everything about them, they are sick, ew here comes one now don't let it touch me" even if you meant it as "I don't understand how someone can be a homosexual."

As many homosexual people I know - including JNAS2006 - have said homosexuality is NOT a choice, therefore, people that are intolerant of it are just the same as people that are intolerant of race, religion (because in my opinion, religion isn't a choice, because you can't just say you believe something, you have to really believe it for it to be your real religion), eye colour, hair colour, height, weight, mental disabilities, physical disabilities, among other things.

Then again, maybe homophobia isn't a choice either. Either way, I can't see the good in thinking of a group of people as "disgusting" so frankly I could care less about expressing my distaste for homophobes.
Mad Poster
#3588 Old 30th Nov 2011 at 11:17 PM
I really liked the way you reframed "disgust" to "It makes me uncomfortable to think about homosexual sex" and"I don't understand how someone can be a homosexual." That was a thoughtful and positive response.

Alexandra, I'm sorry I wasn't as thoughtful and positive. What you said hurt me on a personal level and I didn't respond as nicely as SimsLover and 5MOK3 did. I really really really hope you can hear what 5MOK3 said here.

Addicted to The Sims since 2000.
Inventor
#3589 Old 30th Nov 2011 at 11:29 PM Last edited by GigaRevival : 30th Nov 2011 at 11:38 PM. Reason: Goonies never say die.
Quote: Originally posted by AlexandraSpears
At any rate, I don't hate gays, but I find homosexuality disgusting. I am not about to change my thoughts to suit the PC police. There is nothing to overcome. And "prejudice" is pre-judging...and lots of times this is not even the case. The prejudice here is coming from those who use the term "homophobia." You really think there's fear involved? There's not! Actually listen to why we feel the way we do instead of prejudging us, please. Labels and mind-games do not help.


"Homophobia is a term used to refer to a range of negative attitudes and feelings towards lesbian, gay and in some cases bisexual, transgender people and behavior, although these are usually covered under other terms such as biphobia and transphobia. Definitions refer to irrational fear, with the implication of antipathy, contempt, prejudice, and aversion."
--Just pointing out that the definition has indeed been broadened to cover more than just the fear of gays, although that is still covered (of course).

As a bisexual female myself I do take offense with your opinion; but I do believe you are entitled to it.

And although I'm being a bit of a hypocrite by further derailing, I think it would be best if we stuck to what this thread is actually for. Please take the homosexual discussion to the appropriate threads.

On topic: My Professor added more to the minimum word count for my final paper (which is due by midnight) so now I'm scrambling to finish. Two cups of coffee later, and I'm not sure what I'm writing makes sense anymore. Success?

"Goonies never say die."
Theorist
#3590 Old 1st Dec 2011 at 12:28 AM
I'm venting because this thread exploded since I was last here, I dislike hate and going off topic to discuss something there's plenty of threads for.

Hi I'm Paul!
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retired moderator
#3591 Old 1st Dec 2011 at 1:31 AM
This thread has become rather large, please continue here:
http://www.modthesims.info/showthread.php?p=3714199
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