LN's muscle slider doesn't work on several ages/genders (such as EM) when the sim is naked; I've narrowed the cause of this down to being due to the relevant nude meshes not having normalmaps; presumably if there's no normalmap on the mesh the muscle slider normalmap can't be overlaid. That's fine, and I know how to fix it in theory, however I'm evidently missing a step.

For the tops, I took the simplest route and replaced the CASP to use the normalmap-enabled burnt meshes instead of the nude meshes. However, I can't do this for the bottoms, since there are no normalmapped nude bottoms (the burnt meshes have underpants which alter the shape rather). So I've been attempting to add normalmaps to the existing nude meshes; I can do this in CTU to create a non-default nude bottom, which I could then turn into a default, but I'd rather not bloat the files if I can help it, so I've been trying to add the normalmap by editing the GEOM directly. I've added the appropriate TGI links to the GEOM; however either the game is not reading them, or it's misinterpreting them. Is there another file which I should also be editing? I have had a look inside the VPXY but it seems that's just morph info, which is not what I need. Any pointers as to where I should look next would be appreciated.

My non-default nude bottom also lost its morphs, presumably because I changed the wrong thing(s) in the mesh comments. Is there a particular order in which the TGI refs should be added? What is the TableType attribute, what about HasTagVal?

The muscle sliders work for me in the naked clothing for all ages teen and up and both genders, at least in CAS. For you do they work in CAS but not in the game? Are you sure you're not using a non-default skin tone that hasn't been updated?

you can not add a TGI reference link in a GEOM(you need to edit the CASP then)
And yes, the TGI's have a specific order.(determend by the outfit)
with non nude outfits the order is:
-normalmap(if present)
-Multiplier(base/diffuse)
-Alphamap(often same TGI as the Multiplier)
-specular
-Skeleton

Nudes however are a diffrent story as they use basegame blanc textures for the base texture and are directly linked to the skintone file.
I thought the males didn't had a working normalmap? in CTU the texture is black while in TSRW that same texture is totally messed up...
And doesn't the normalmap work on both tops and bottoms when naked? I mean if its assigned to the top(or bottom) it automaticly gets applied on the bottom(or top) as its a fullbodytexture.

Dont know wat the tabletype means, the tagval is only used on hairs

They work in CAS but not the game, for me and for several others (I found the issue in the Help forums). I don't have any non-default skintones. If you can figure out why the hell it works in CAS, you're a better woman than I! I did consider the possibility that it was my defaults, but it seemed like too much of a coincidence that all the non-working meshes have no normalmap, where all the working ones do. emBoxerBriefs, efTopBra and tfTopBra are also all affected. Even if it is default skintone related, I'd still like to fix it.

Ok, thankyou for that Bloom. I guess I will stick to my CTU method - I was hoping I could just default replace the meshes so that any retextures would also be fixed, but it sounds like that won't be possible: in that case, I'll find it easier to alter the CASP using conventional tools rather than beating myself round the head with a hex editor .
Yes, I had observed that pattern in the TGIs of the working nudes (I copied from amBottomNude to emBottomNude), but was wondering if the cause of the problem might be to do with my improper following of it since following it didn't seem to help.

I don't know if the normalmap is working - its mere presence seems to be sufficient to allow the game to overlay the muscle slider. Certainly the am normal map throws an error when I try to view it in S3PE, but I've observed that with many normalmaps so it may just be an anomaly of compression. And it doesn't seem that the map "extends" from top to bottom or vice versa - as seen here, after I fixed the em top (there are also others, such as ef, which have a working top but non-working bottom without any fix).

Interesting about the tagval - I found it in either the lod2 or 3 of the ambottom. I'll assume it's irrelevant.

lol, thought you were a guy like me :D

didn't know you could edit the CASP, then clone the adult CASP and give it elder instance numbers?
That is if you can relink the meshes and Bgeo's in it....

Everyone thinks I'm a guy, every time .

Well, I managed to add a normalmap by adding it to mesh comments in MS then importing that mesh into CTU; I also nuked the morphs, as I said earlier, probably because I replaced more TGI refs than I needed to. Now I understand them a little better I can hopefully avoid that . If that fails, then yes, I'll create a default based on the adult version and add morphs using MorphMaker (the one unnecessary resource I'm glad EA included - morph guide meshes). It's a bit unwieldy as a solution, but it should work, I think - I'm assuming that I can't just somehow link the existing EA BGEOs after I've replaced the adult mesh.

if you add the normalmap to the GEOM wich doesn't already have a normalmap you mess up the texture order.
Then the outfit is going to use your normalmap as basetexture.

I think the easiest way is to clone the emBottomBriefs_swim and replace its normalmap TGI reference with the one you had in mind.(the adult one?)
Do not add it as custom normalmap, it will mess things up i think.
Fix all the textures with copy and pasting the elder nude texture links.
Then replace its instance number with the ones from the elder nude bottom?

The emBottomBriefs mesh is not the same as the emBottomNude though - that's what I did originally, and I then realised that the buttcrack looked awfully flat, and compared the meshes; the nude is slimmer and more contoured. I'm really not sure how I managed to add the normalmap before - I tried it again and it didn't work, so maybe it was a fluke.

ETA: Well now, that didn't work - importing the nude mesh into CTU removed the normalmap. D'oh.

That's what I get for doing so little actual playing! Weird issue and seems like a major bug EA let slip through.

I don't understand why you can't add the normal (and specular, it looks like) references to the mesh - maybe some size or count field is getting messed up. Will look at this in more detail between trips to the laundry room.

I tried editing the mesh in Milkshape to set up the TGI references to the normal and specular files just like the adult, the same thing you tried. I got a mesh that works fine, I think including the morphs - I used an elder who's on the thin side and there was no mismatch between top and bottom. Unfortunately, there was also no muscle definition.

Does your default replacement top nude work in the game?

For the tops, I just cloned the burnt outfit and replaced the texture links, as it's the same mesh - they all work.

The first time I got a working bottom, I cloned the nude bottom, replaced the mesh comments with the am comments and imported; that added the normalmap, but I haven't been able to make it work again. I now have a working replacement for the bottom, which was made by cloning another bottom with a normalmap, completely replacing the mesh comments, and importing the altered nude mesh (then creating morphs and adding them). It seems like CTU will recognise a replacement of the normalmap via the TGI refs in the mesh comments, but it won't recognise a new normalmap if the file that's being imported into has no normalmap - don't quote me on that though, it's just casual observations and I usually miss something at this stage.

hmm, can you add a custom normalmap with CTU when a outfit hasn't one originally?
If so you can clone the nude bottom, add its meshes and add a custom normalmap.
Then open the package with Postal or s3PE, extract the GEOM and change the TGI reference number to the muscled one.

Another thing i experienced is that you need to do all 3 lods, if you for instance change the normalmap into a blanc one only on the lod1 it will still be visible(it then uses the one from the lod2 or 3.)
So it might be the other way arround also.

I copied the am normalmap link into the em mesh, but mine might have not worked since I did only lod1.

I could (sort of) understand EA not applying muscles on nude elders since we're not 'supposed' to see them nude - but the elder male also loses his muscles in swimwear and sleepwear. It's age discrimination!

It's teens too - double-ended ageism!

I haven't been able to reliably add a normalmap to a normalmap-less outfit in CTU, no, even using a custom one. Thanks for the heads up on the other LODs Bloom - I'm not sure if I remembered them for em, so I'll doublecheck.

Could you upload the muscle normalmap, i dont have LN yet?(it is part of LN right?)
I like to see wat happens if you replace the default basegame normalmap with the muscled one.
Think it will show all normalmap errors on all ages then.

It comes with LN or with the 1.17 patch; aWT has already uploaded the files here: http://awtmk.blogspot.com/2010/10/r...r-textures.html - I believe the linked files should be as-is from FullBuild.

Seen those but are those the correct size?

I only downloaded amBodyCutness to check, but it seems so. The files behind the links aren't the same as the inline images.

Ah, i downed the images...

Had a look at the files in TSRW and the naked meshes have a diffrent setup.
I could not change the setup from clothing to naked as it still uses the multi/specular and mask texture
Those files are not used when naked(but linked to 4 basegame blanc textures/texture1/2/3/ and 4) neither does the naked has a specularmap.

I have changed the basegame normalmap into the muscle map and it will indeed only show on outfits wich have original a clothing normalmap.
Did not check if the muscle normalmap shows on the elders when they take a shower.

If you want to use EA's setup on the files you better not clone the naked files and set them as clothing, better use a clothing mesh/outfit and load the naked meshes in those.

TSRW has them set in a seperate category with a diffrent setup while CTU handles them as clothing wich(in my opinion) is not possible.

The only way to make this work is to clone the adult files, relink the textures to the elder naked and load the elder naked meshes in them.
Then set it as elder replacement but i doubt if the file then will work in the shower.

Well, I have them all working via various methods, so I'll explain how I understand it.

Certainly the regular textures for the nude meshes aren't used; perhaps you have seen something to suggest otherwise, but I would assume the following. Those textures are not "used" because their alphas are all black; they are in fact applied to the mesh, but as they are entirely transparent they make no difference to the appearance. The game then applies the skintone texture to any areas which have a black alpha on the base texture, as usual - in this case the skintone is applied all over, as the base texture is fully transparent.

In any case, the following method has worked: Clone another bottom (with a neutral normalmap) and extract its meshes; extract the nude meshes and replace their TGI refs, in Milkshape, with the ones from the cloned bottom; import the altered nude meshes into the clone and replace the texture links, disable channels, and set part categories to whatever is used for the nude part; create new BGEOs and add them to the file; alter the CASP instance to create a default replacement.

Of course, it's possible that this method is a workaround, rather than an imitation of how EA do it - I'm just a tinkerer, what do I know . However, it does work. I've attached one file constructed in the above manner, in case you want to have a look at it - it's the tmBottom, as that was the only one that I don't appear to have altered at all in the process of merging it into the final combined file. I'll upload the fix as-is in the next few days, unless we discover something significant.

you are right, there are more ways to fix this.
I cloned the adult naked(with TSRW) and set it as elder, attached the elder naked meshes to it and relinked the normalmaps to a blanc one.
Also gave me a correct file in CAS

I've been banging my head on this problem the last few weeks, trying to find a fix that only needs a modified mesh for the anatomically correct teen and elder male bottoms I'm working on, and have found something new. While going nuts trying to figure out how the non-working meshes and/or CASPs are different from the working ones, besides the TGI link for a normal map which I had already added to the mesh using Milkshape, I noticed the MTNF in the adult mesh has an item for NormalMap which is missing in the teen and elder meshes.

I used Delphy's SimGeomEditor to export the adult MTNFs for each lod (don't know if the MTNFs for the lods are different - didn't check), imported them to each lod of the teen mesh, and saved them. Worked for the male teen bottom; see the pic attached of a teen with my bottom nude mesh and the unaltered EA top nude mesh. This worked with only the mesh, no altered CASP or morphs or anything.

You dont have to use Delphy's SimGeomEditor for this, you can do all in Milkshape if im correct.
just copy everything wat is in the meshcomments from the adult mesh and past it in the teen mesh comments.
As far as i know they share textures and normalmaps.
The elder uses a diffrent skintonetexture so you have to leave TGI2 and 3(?) as it is

Edit,
Oops, you also have keep the last TGI(skeleton) for both teen and elder...

You're right - I tried taking the entire adult comments, replacing the skeleton TGI with the teen skeleton TGI, and pasting that into the teen comments. Got the same result - works perfectly in-game. I guess none of us tried replacing the entire comments before, or forgot to use the right skeleton.