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Scholar
#26 Old 12th Sep 2010 at 7:23 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Wojtek
The place where you live has an influence. If you're not aware of that go to Saudi Arabia and tell that you're gay. I hope you won't suffer for a long time before they kill you. I assume Nordic countries are most tolerant when it comes to homosexuality. In spite of their 'tolerance' they abuse and offend people from eastern Europe without a reason. I know that because I have friends who worked in England, Norway and Holland and they told me how they were treated. They were harassed and abused and paid less money than the locals. Is this the 'tolerance' you're talking about? Criticizing us is a soft option but an attempt to understand our attitude involves research but you prefer using stereotypes. This is narrowmindedness. Just to remind you Poland is a Catholic country and it has a huge influence on people who live there. The Bible tell that God created a man and a woman to populate Earth. I don't believe in God and neither do I treat the Bible as a source of any knowledge but I do find homosexuality weird just because I do. Homosexuals in Poland are treated the way they are because their behavior towards normal people is wrong. Organizing stupid parades in Warsaw just to show you're gay/lesbian is a misunderstanding. It makes people upset and their attitude towards gays deteriorates.

I agreed with you the way foreigners are exploited are bad. Your arguments are hypocrite. Treating slavic people is bad in our country, but treating your own gay people in your country is not bad because of "culture" and "the government" and other crappy excuses. Gay people in your country follow the example of how the gays got rights here. They will have to fight for their rights because noone else will in your country. Unlike our government which at least tries to help slavic people from beeing exploited. You measure with two standards here.


"When the moon is in the seventh house
And Jupiter aligns with Mars
Then peace will guide the planets
And love will steer the stars"
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Mad Poster
#27 Old 12th Sep 2010 at 10:18 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Wojtek
You all treat people from eastern Europe like shit and yet try to defend the Romani people and yell how poor they are as they don't even care to find a job or respect the law. Your 'tolerance' is fake because you use stereotypes to describe other people. I've been to England and was shocked because people there didn't know where Poland was situated. Do you imagine that? So how come one assess people when one don't even know where their countries are situated.


Mad Poster
#28 Old 12th Sep 2010 at 10:35 PM
Wojtek, you're being ignorant, hypocritical, and downright rude. Get educated before you go making a fool of yourself.
Scholar
#29 Old 12th Sep 2010 at 10:38 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Wojtek
I don't understand why gay people/activists behave like rude children. Their situation is not that bad. Why do people defend the homosexuals? They decided to be homosexual and confess and they should all deal with their choice and face all advantages and advantages of it. The homosexuals have well-paid jobs and often enjoy their lifes (sometimes even too much lol). Nobody thinks about poor people who really need help. Poor people do not organize stupids parades to show what they're like. Such people have no opportunity to develop or even earn a living. I know what I write because I live in a country where a lot of people earn little money and have problems like bad living conditions and malnutrition. Moreover the poorest regions of Poland (the south and the east) faced severe flooding several times this summer. These are the real problems we have to face. Oh? You didn't know about that? What a pity. This is the reason I'm very upset because people whose situation is fairly good complain about 'discrimination'. They have too much and want even more. This is my concern.


I assume you are aware that homosexuals are not one large entity, when you apparently claim that they all have well-paid jobs? Seriously, this post is disgusting.


Regarding the actual topic at hand, being gay should not be a reason to disallow giving blood. That they are barred is utterly ridiculous.
Mad Poster
#30 Old 12th Sep 2010 at 10:42 PM
Wow, gay-bashing and England-bashing. Nice. And totally irrelevant to the topic of this thread.
Retired
retired moderator
#31 Old 12th Sep 2010 at 11:51 PM
That's right Wojtek. I want the right to adopt. And the right to call my marriage "marriage" and my husband my "husband". And the right to not be fired because I have a husband. And I want people to realise I'm not a creep, or bad, or wrong, or disgusting. And I want people to realise that a life pretending to be straight is disgusting. And I want to take all of your first born sons and raise them in special gay-making concentration camps so that I can have an army of hot boys who will do my every bidding. And I want to rule with an iron fist. AND if I want to start calling apples "bananas" and fishes "ironing boards", I want to be able to. No-one can disagree!

All I am is an empty shell who wants more. More. More! MOoooooooooORE!

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GON OUT, BACKSON, BISY BACKSON
Mad Poster
#32 Old 13th Sep 2010 at 12:02 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Wojtek
I know but I don't like when someone labels people 'hypocritical' or 'homophobic' when he/she doesn't even know the source of such behavior.

I am educated and know what I'm talking about. Your attitude shows you have no respect for people who are honest and that you don't know anything about eastern Europe. Read something about Poland and Lithuania and you'll know why our attitude is so fierce. Why do all of you defend the homosexuals? They're not the people who need special treatment or compassion. They're not the disabled or mentally ill. My point is that all this gays' movements are pointless. They enjoy their lifes and yet want more and more.
Is this serious?! People are calling you intolerant and homophobic because that is exactly what you are being. What the hell does the 'source of such behaviour' have to do with anything? I don't give a monkeys whether you're from eastern Europe, the Middle East or Mars - you are being offensive and clearly have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Gay movements are not pointless because homosexuality is discriminated against. End of.

EDIT: And stop sitting there and telling other people to read up about your country when you clearly have no/little understanding of other's countries.
Mad Poster
#33 Old 13th Sep 2010 at 12:40 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Wojtek
I am educated and know what I'm talking about.


You're clearly not educated if you think homosexuality is a choice. Do you really think people sit around and say, "I think I'll be gay today so I can lose some of my rights, have people shout disgusting slurs at me, possibly get assaulted, and be looked upon as a disease-carrying monster"? Yeah... that makes a lot of sense.

Quote: Originally posted by Wojtek
Your attitude shows you have no respect for people who are honest and that you don't know anything about eastern Europe. Read something about Poland and Lithuania and you'll know why our attitude is so fierce.


So I need to read about Eastern Europe to learn why you're homophobic? Huh...

I'm being honest when I say you're rude, ignorant, and intolerant. You're not the only one who's allowed to be honest.

Quote: Originally posted by Wojtek
Why do all of you defend the homosexuals?


Because they're people. Just like you. (Although I'm sure many of them have a lot more compassion than you do.)

Quote: Originally posted by Wojtek
They're not the people who need special treatment or compassion.


So gays don't deserve compassion? Geez...

As long as there are people like you in the world, they will need special treatment and compassion. Somebody's got to protect their rights. (And they're really not asking for "special" treatment, anyway; they just want the same thing as everybody else.)

Quote: Originally posted by Wojtek
They're not the disabled or mentally ill. My point is that all this gays' movements are pointless. They enjoy their lifes and yet want more and more.


And you're not gay, you have more rights than gay people, you enjoy your life, and yet you want to take away from the lives of others.

Nice.
Scholar
#34 Old 13th Sep 2010 at 1:14 AM
I'll leave out my opinion on the matter of what Wojtek said.

Rather, this reminds me of something I learned in a philosophy class I took. A clashing of cultures. On one hand, you could criticize but it would likely be based on a culture you grew up with and understand, finding certain parts of another distasteful within your own.

On the other hand, it is the same for them, having grown up in that other culture. So the question then becomes who is right, on what grounds is the judgment, is it reasonable, etc.

I'm finding this rather interesting. A lesson of philosophy in the making.

Is that a shillelagh in your pocket, or are you just sinning against God?
Inventor
#35 Old 13th Sep 2010 at 1:21 AM
Yet another thread where Wojtek tries to justify his own homophobia, racism, sexism or other bigotry.
Field Researcher
#36 Old 13th Sep 2010 at 1:34 AM Last edited by pinketamine : 13th Sep 2010 at 2:01 AM.
I really don't think that people are homophobic or intolerant just based on the country they come from. Of course it has some influence, as well as the education has, but it does not "depend on" when you come from. I also understand that some countries have "more important things" to care about that gay rights, but that does not mean that homosexual do not suffer discrimination. In some countries in the world, there is even a death penalty for homosexuals. Homosexuals do not have the same rights that heterosexual people, even in developed countries, so I think that gay movements do have sense; for me, it is the same than feminism, which was discussed here not long ago. Until homosexuals have the same rights that heterosexuals they should continue "fighting".

Homosexuality is not a choice, if it was, many people would have chosen not to be homosexual, so they would not suffer discrimination. I don't understand why you are mixing this topic with WWII, because I can't see how they are related.

As for the topic itself, I think that the "people with risky sexual habits" is a definition that can cause discrimination. Nowadays, heterosexuals are affected by VIH almost in the same number than gay people, at least here in Spain.

Here the requisites are:
Being older than 18, weighing more than 50 Kg ( can't donate because of this), not having donated in the last 6 months.
You can't donate if you have any illness that can be transmited with infected blood, you are diabetic or epileptic, or you have a serious illness. The blood is tested anyway, but I guess that is a previous "security system".
You can't temporaly donate if you had got pierced or tattoed in the last year, if you have travelled to a tropical country during the last year, during pregnancy and until 6 months after giving birth.
And lastly, you can't temporaly donate if you have made any risky activity which can mean blood-to-blood contact: exchange of blades, needles or toothbrushes; having sex without condoms...
Inventor
#37 Old 13th Sep 2010 at 1:44 AM
And in the United States, you cannot donate if you've visited or lived in Great Britian since either since ~ 2003 during a time frame somewhere around that year, I can't remember exactly. I just know my sister cannot because she lived in England during this time and there was a mad cow disease outbreak in the country at the same time and due to the timing, prevents my sister, with O+ blood type, from ever donating blood or blood plasma. And they don't take into account she'd been a long time vegetarian and was vegan during the time she lived there.
Mad Poster
#38 Old 13th Sep 2010 at 1:55 AM Last edited by el_flel : 13th Sep 2010 at 2:18 AM.
Wojtek - Thanks for the history lesson, but I repeat: it's not relevant to this debate. Homophobia is defined as negative attitudes and behaviour towards homosexuality - you have clearly expressed these negative attitudes in your posts in this thread and that is why people are calling you intolerant. Please don't use your country as an excuse for behaving this way, people aren't going to fall for it. Just because it's more accepted in your country doesn't make it right. Oppression of women is more accepted in many Middle Eastern countries but that doesn't mean that kind of behaviour or thinking is ok. It is tantamount to religious fanatics saying 'homosexuality is wrong because the bible says so!'. You have your own mind. If it's something you want to debate then start up a new thread.

pinketamine - summed it up beautifully.

Purity4 - I've seen that said before about mad cow disease. We also had a foot and mouth outbreak here roughly around the same time and I think that possible exposure to that has also meant that people from other countries who visited us around that time haven't been to donate either (possibly those from Australia and NZ in addition to the US? I know they are quite stringent about what gets brought into the countries and that extends to disease). I don't really get it though because obviously us English were also exposed to it yet we're still allowed to donate?
Mad Poster
#39 Old 13th Sep 2010 at 2:09 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Wojtek
I'll give you a small emotional lecture because it seems you aren't taught this at school because it's so inconvenient.


You're assuming I wasn't taught this at school.

Quote: Originally posted by Wojtek
You deny to read about countries of eastern Europe because you don't care.


Again, you're assuming. I took European history in high school. I could've taken Canadian history instead, but I wanted to learn about more than my own country. I read plenty about Eastern Europe.

Quote: Originally posted by Wojtek
That's a very common attitude of people from the west.


Now you're stereotyping. And being arrogant.

Quote: Originally posted by Wojtek
They label people from eastern Europe 'homophobic' and 'offensive' and have no idea why we are like that.


Are you actually trying to justify your homophobia? What did gay people every do to you, Wojtek? Besides make you feel uncomfortable because they're not like you, I mean.

Quote: Originally posted by Wojtek
We had a very painful history full of violence and discrimination.


I won't argue with that. But you can probably say the same thing about every region of the world. You guys don't have the monopoly on violence and discrimination. Nor does your history give you the right to be violent and discriminatory now just because those things were once directed at you.

Quote: Originally posted by Wojtek
You don't even know what patriotism and national pride means.


How do you know?

Quote: Originally posted by Wojtek
We're proud and patriotic.


Sometimes too much pride isn't such a good thing.

Quote: Originally posted by Wojtek
Although we were russified, germanised we managed to retain our national treasure, our language. Our lands were being taken/stolen, we were being displaced/killed like toys. Our language was being forbidden by the foreign authorities. We were ruled by different nations who could spit at us and we could not even say a word. We had to struggle in order to keep our language and culture. We had to risk our lifes to let our offsprings lead a better life in a modern and democratic country.


That's certainly commendable. But, again, all of that doesn't give you the right to now turn around and treat other people like crap.

Quote: Originally posted by Wojtek
You certainly have no idea who defeated the Crusaders in 1940.


In 1940? The Mongols defeated them in 1240...

Quote: Originally posted by Wojtek
You don't even know who saved you from a Soviet invasion in 1920.


No, I'm afraid I don't, because I'm not sure who "you" is or what invasion you mean. Are you talking about the Polish-Soviet War?

Quote: Originally posted by Wojtek
You don't know who helped you during the Battle of Britain.


The Poles, the New Zealanders, the Canadians, the Czechoslovaks, the Australians, the Belgians... Do I need to go on?

Quote: Originally posted by Wojtek
Who fought in Narvik or Monte Cassino, Tobruk?


You can't take credit for everything. Just because the Poles participated doesn't mean they were the only ones there.

Quote: Originally posted by Wojtek
Who made the communist government collapse in eastern Europe?


Each country with a revolution. Just because Poland was the first doesn't mean it was responsible for the complete fall of communism. That's oversimplifying things.

Quote: Originally posted by Wojtek
Who created the first constitution in Europe?


Poland. So what? The U.S.A. beat you by a few years.

Quote: Originally posted by Wojtek
Who founded the first legal political oppositional party in the communist block? Who helped Georgia during a Russian invasion in 2008?


Let me guess... Poland?

Quote: Originally posted by Wojtek
France and England did nothing to help Poland when it was overrun by the Nazi Germany in September 1939. You treated Poland and Moravia like a worthless clutter you can give away and use to protect yourself and to appease Hitler. You allied with Soviet Union that attacked us on 17 September. You sold half of Europe to USRR only to suck up to USRR. You simply betrayed us and yet dare to offend us.


I did all that? I wasn't even born yet!

Quote: Originally posted by Wojtek
The allies were winners and no compensation was given to Poland as it was destroyed. Our capital was totally destroyed after the Warsaw uprising. Other cities like Kołobrzeg, Szczecin, Wrocław, Gdańsk, Poznań and other major cities.


And...?

Quote: Originally posted by Wojtek
See Poland and Lithuania. Yes, Lithuania exists my dear. It's a country is it not? Did you know about it? Come on! And they speak Lithuanian wow! How come you didn't know that!


Don't take that condescending tone with me. And stop making assumptions. I know perfectly well that Lithuania is a country.

Quote: Originally posted by Wojtek
It was a shameful and cowardly act of desperation and lame attempt to fulfill Hitler's ill ambitions. Who do you think you are to call us names?


I'm not calling you names. I'm merely pointing out your ignorance and bigotry.

Quote: Originally posted by Wojtek
We did so much and what do we face nowadays? Hatred, calling names, offending stereotypes, racial slurs, treating us like worthless shit!


You advocate treating others like worthless shit. What's the matter... you can dish it out but you can't take it?

Quote: Originally posted by Wojtek
Is it the tolerance you're representing? Your attitude explains everything. You know? I don't care how many 'disagree' buttons I will collect. You can disagree but the truth doesn't have to be defended. The truth defends itself and history proves it.


Listen, Wojtek. I have no problem with Polish people. In fact, I worked closely with a few of them years ago, and they were some of the nicest people I've ever met. You, on the other hand, are a completely different beast. You're getting all hot and bothered about my attitude, when you're the one who can't bear to have your failings pointed out to you. You're the one who's trying to justify homophobia by dragging your poor country into it. Do yourself a favour and stop now before you give your fellow countrymen a bad name.

And just for the record (and to get back on topic), Canada isn't the only country that bans blood donations from homosexual men. The views of all Canadians aren't represented by the Canadian Blood Services, either, so please don't paint us all with the same brush. We're actually fairly tolerant of homosexuality. We've got legal gay marriage, some rockin' pride parades that have become family events, and some pretty strict hate crimes laws. If anything, CBS is out of step with much of Canadian society.
transmogrified
retired moderator
#40 Old 13th Sep 2010 at 2:23 AM
Don't be afraid to start a new topic when what you want to say has absolutely nothing to do with this one, people.
Mad Poster
#41 Old 13th Sep 2010 at 2:37 AM
Quote: Originally posted by mangaroo
Don't be afraid to start a new topic when what you want to say has absolutely nothing to do with this one, people.


Hehe... sorry. I tried to bring it back around to the topic at hand.
Scholar
#42 Old 13th Sep 2010 at 6:05 AM Last edited by Vanito : 13th Sep 2010 at 6:19 AM.
People with attitudes like Wojtek, are simply adding to the gay discrimination crap, which will only add to the anti gay attitude of blood donations, because those are driven by fear and hate in the first place.

Sugarcoated words like "semi tolerant" do not cover that up.

When people keep denying the fact that they are acting no better than racists, some people swallow those words and the world will never chance. Give me an openly homophobic anytime over a hypocrite attitude.


"When the moon is in the seventh house
And Jupiter aligns with Mars
Then peace will guide the planets
And love will steer the stars"
Scholar
#43 Old 13th Sep 2010 at 10:39 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Wojtek
You all treat people from eastern Europe like shit and yet try to defend the Romani people and yell how poor they are as they don't even care to find a job or respect the law. Your 'tolerance' is fake


Actually the Romani people get it a lot worse than you do. I suggest you look up the thread in which people talk about Roma Gypsys, they have a much worse deal than Polish. Polish people are more respected in Britiain because they work, at the end of the day.

Also, I think your opinions are backward, and have no place in modern society. Go back to the dark days and throw rocks at homosexuals while scratching your ears and saying "ug". Your intolerance is shocking. Gay men have just as much right to adopt as men and women are. Also I agree with Vanito, "semi-tolerant" just means intolerant, apart from with a middle-class spin on it.

I apologize to others on this thread for being so verbally aggressive.

I'm supporting the Optimist Camp for the Sims 4.




.
Mad Poster
#44 Old 13th Sep 2010 at 2:24 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Wojtek
I'll try to calm down but I don't promise anything. I'm a very over-emotional person and it's very easy for me to lose my temper as you experienced reading my posts. Moreover I had a terrible headache yesterday that affected my head, temples, nasal sinus and cheekbones. I had a sleepless night because of the pain. I was thinking about my behavior and decided to apologize to all of you who felt offended by my statements.
That's very good of you to apologise.

Quote: Originally posted by Wojtek
It doesn't however change the fact that I'm highly surprised that you don't want to accept the fact that there are people in this world that do not agree with homosexual marriages or homosexual couples adopting children and find it rather unsuitable or inappropriate in the place they live.
People do accept it, but they disagree with it and don't understand it. Why does it matter to anyone else whether a man loves women or men (or vice versa)? All gay people want is the same rights as straight people, in exactly the same way that women want the same rights as men. It's not unreasonable, in fact it's completely reasonable.

Quote: Originally posted by Wojtek
The homosexuals should have a better idea to draw the attention of other people.
A better idea to draw attention than what? Pride parades? They aren't anything to do with gaining equal rights; they are about showing that they have nothing to be ashamed of just because they're gay, lesbian, bi or transgender.

Quote: Originally posted by Wojtek
If they started helping the disabled or mentally ill and did some actions other people find worthy and worth attention or approval. They should present themselves as helpful people who care about the others and show they're worth recognition.

But why should they have to do these things just to be given something they should have anyway? There are no legitimate reasons why gay people shouldn't have exactly the same rights as straight people, so why should they have to prove they are worthy of equal rights? They don't need to prove anything, they are worthy of equal rights simply by being human.

Quote: Originally posted by Wojtek
I also experience discrimination.
So does everyone, mate.

Quote: Originally posted by Wojtek
If it's not a matter of choice what is it?
Biology. Read this post. Do you choose to be straight? No, of course you don't, so why is it any different for gay people?
world renowned whogivesafuckologist
retired moderator
#45 Old 13th Sep 2010 at 3:24 PM
Remember, this topic is about homosexuals donating blood...

Not gay marriage, the gay "lifestyle", whether it's okay to be gay, or European history (?? where the hell did THAT come from, ya'll?) - please stay on topic.
Scholar
#46 Old 13th Sep 2010 at 4:39 PM
I just want to say that I doubt anything relating to the chemistry of sexual attraction is going to be in school biology books.

Also, there is a huge amount of evidence. Also, the American Psychology Registry/official regulatory board for psychologists (can't think of its exact name) legally recognises homosexuality as a sexual orientation that occurs naturally.

Wojtek I want to ask you one question - If people make a choice to be homosexual, why do many men deny it through their lifetime and often commit suicide if they are found out to be gay? Surely they won't choose to be attracted to men if it makes them that ashamed.

Back on topic, are drug users allowed to donate blood in most countries? Does anyone know?

I'm supporting the Optimist Camp for the Sims 4.




.
world renowned whogivesafuckologist
retired moderator
#47 Old 13th Sep 2010 at 4:43 PM
Please, please stay on topic. The ethics of and mechanics of homosexuality are not part of this topic. It's fine if you want to debate that stuff - please just make a separate thread about it. Or find one of the ten existing threads already related to it.

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Panquecas, panquecas e mais panquecas.
Mad Poster
#48 Old 13th Sep 2010 at 4:53 PM
I might address Wotjek's points in one of the zillion homosexuality debate threads if I can be bothered, but as I can't see that it will change his opinion in the slightest (and all the points he raised have been answered in those threads multiple times) I don't really see the point.

Re drug users: You definitely cannot donate if you've ever injected drugs (even if it was just once), because users who inject are also a group who are at a high risk of getting HIV or AIDS because often they share needles. The National Blood Service doesn't actually say anything about drugs that I can see under the page 'Who Can't Give Blood' but it does say that you can't donate if you've had antibiotics or an infection within the last 6-12 weeks, and that you might not be able to donate if you're on any medication - I strongly suspect that this extends to having taken any illegal drugs.
Scholar
#49 Old 13th Sep 2010 at 5:05 PM
I think there should be a massive campaign launched by gay men.

I have an idea; get all of the gay men in a local area to turn up at one of those portable "donate your blood" events. At least 50 of them to walk in, ask, be told no, leave, repeat. Nothing like an irritating protest to get things changed quickly.

I'm supporting the Optimist Camp for the Sims 4.




.
Mad Poster
#50 Old 13th Sep 2010 at 5:47 PM
Here - I've revived an old thread for the discussion of homosexuality.

As for drugs: it depends what they do to your body. If using the blood of a smoker isn't going to harm the person receiving it then why not use it?

Many illegal drugs can be prescribed legally because they have health benefits. Ritalin (a drug for ADHD) contains an amphetamine-like drug, morphine and heroin are both opiates, cannaboids - chemicals found in marijuana - are prescribed for pain, nausea and glaucoma.
 
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