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Instructor
#276 Old 3rd Sep 2014 at 9:08 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Mendota
Sims 3 has never outsold the Sims 2. Sims 2 has sold over 20 million copies, Sims 3 only 10 million.


Thanks for finding the numbers. But the point remains: even if it had won the commercial war, it ultimately didn't win the popularity war. Removing Body Shop killed it for Sims 3. Because now, modders have to actually think - and go to school for more than two years in graphic design and animation to have a clue what they're doing. And with Sims 4, even more features (good and bad ones) have been pitted and gutted. There's not much left to the game that the fan base loved. Hopefully, expansions will fix this. But I see a downward trend.

You can find me on the Sims 4 Gallery as DozerfleetProd. If you have XBox One or PS4, please test out my creations, and let me know if / how well they work on consoles.
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Lab Assistant
#277 Old 3rd Sep 2014 at 9:12 AM
Quote: Originally posted by CormorantEnt
Thanks for finding the numbers. But the point remains: even if it had won the commercial war, it ultimately didn't win the popularity war. Removing Body Shop killed it for Sims 3. Because now, modders have to actually think - and go to school for more than two years in graphic design and animation to have a clue what they're doing. And with Sims 4, even more features (good and bad ones) have been pitted and gutted. There's not much left to the game that the fan base loved. Hopefully, expansions will fix this. But I see a downward trend.


That's not just The Sims though - moddability has decreased more and more lately. With engines becoming increasingly complex, fewer people have the skill to actually mod newer games, and devs are shifting customization more into the confines of the game itself instead of leaving it to modders. For example, there's a reason why the Total War modding community all but stopped trying to do major total conversions after Medieval 2 (with a few exceptions in Napoleon/Empire) and the devs never really got around to releasing proper modding tools either.
Instructor
#278 Old 3rd Sep 2014 at 9:24 AM
Real Lives?
Quote: Originally posted by monsterfurby
I don't really think it's necessarily meant to be a life simulator in the same way that, say Real Lives is meant to be one. From another perspective, it could well be more of a Life Game, which is a different matter entirely.

I dont want to get too off track here but have they worked on Real Lives anymore? Has it been improved at all?

Was a interesting game/simulator.
Instructor
#279 Old 3rd Sep 2014 at 10:14 PM
Quote: Originally posted by monsterfurby
That's not just The Sims though - moddability has decreased more and more lately. With engines becoming increasingly complex, fewer people have the skill to actually mod newer games, and devs are shifting customization more into the confines of the game itself instead of leaving it to modders. For example, there's a reason why the Total War modding community all but stopped trying to do major total conversions after Medieval 2 (with a few exceptions in Napoleon/Empire) and the devs never really got around to releasing proper modding tools either.


In essence, companies are thirsty for quick turnaround and release dates. And tend to forget that crowdsourcing their content by providing tools for the crowdsourcing to make customization easy is a winning strategy to a loyal fan base. They want to keep everything in-house, so that developers can justify their salaries. Meaning, they buckle down and become elitist about who can work on their games. The end result is a narrower and narrower pool of individuals who have access to either the tools or the education necessary to assist in development. Which also leads to a suffocating of ideas and inspiration.

EA Sports titles are like this too. They want to keep to a quick release schedule, and market the crap out of how quickly they can turn things around. So they force developers to cut corners. UI and player ally AI improves a tiny amount per game, but little things like clipboard animations and fan stand AI go broken and unfixed even after ten years of releases. Marketing releases images of a game that looks far better and more complete than the game that ships.

I do believe we are witnessing the slow, gradual implosion of EA as the world's top gaming empire. As for what would replace it, I cannot pretend to know.

You can find me on the Sims 4 Gallery as DozerfleetProd. If you have XBox One or PS4, please test out my creations, and let me know if / how well they work on consoles.
Test Subject
#280 Old 4th Sep 2014 at 11:16 AM
Quote: Originally posted by SuziSim
I was around for the release of the base games of The Sims, TS2, and TS3. I remember some people complaining about TS3 in that it did not contain all the things from expansions that they wanted, such as pets and weather. However, I recall people being excited about the large, open world and about Create-a-Style. TS4 has nothing new that's even remotely close. Emotions? Please. They're not new in the franchise, as much as Graham would like to pretend that they are.



i agree with u. when the sims 3 came out it was hard for me to go back to no vampires and a base game, but omg i was soo excited about the open world and create a style! i love building and creating so much and the story progression just brought the whole sim world to live. sims3 had its flaws and yes requires a good computer, but it had new stuff that hooked me. the sims 4 so far nothing... yes they got emotions now, but are emotions really justifying removing the open world completely? reintroducing loading screens? removing a create a style? so yeah i have a fake neighborhood which i cant touch with fake cars...sorry screams platform/fb game for me! and i am someone that doesnt care about being in the house alll the time or even having a job. i build, i create stories and build some more...and yes i love killing sims occasionally too( had an assassin sim that killed off pretty much the entire town) yes i like randomness too. i made a fairyworld with caw tool and im working on making a mermaid world. so yeah i loved the freedom we had in the sims3 and i can live with the bugs, but the sims 4 worries me....
i love the interactons, but thats all there is... what if i do wanna have a fairyworld or a supernatural town? i cant because the map is so outdated sims 2 beats it by miles! i doubt future expansions will fix everything that we are missing.
One horse disagreer of the Apocalypse
#281 Old 4th Sep 2014 at 11:41 AM
It's pretty easy to tell which of the Amazon reviews are from EA plants. Those who have just one review and it happens to be The Sims 4, and those who rather more cleverly have written a lot of reviews - in two temporal clusters - one just before SimCity came out when in the weeks preceding they bought a range of cheap unrelated items which they reviewed, culminating with SimCity for a glowing review, and another similar cluster of cheap unrelated purchases in the weeks before TheSims4, culminating in a glowing Sims 4 review I guess EA funded the cheap toasters they didn't really want.

"You can do refraction by raymarching through the depth buffer" (c. Reddeyfish 2017)
Test Subject
#282 Old 4th Sep 2014 at 5:17 PM
I'm really hoping that it doesn't flop. This game is amazing, and it doesn't deserve to flop.
I think that if it does flop, it might affect later generations of The Sims games, too. It won't
sell like TS2 did, I don't think, but I don't think it will flop. It's really good and there are so
many new and amazing features in the game (I know there are exclusions too but they
aren't really all that important) that I think will attract people to buy it.
Theorist
#283 Old 4th Sep 2014 at 5:23 PM Last edited by HCAC : 4th Sep 2014 at 10:39 PM.
They are hoping people are ready to shell out another (US) $40.00 per EP to get the game up to what fans expected. When we had Sims 2, I was able to buy every EP (not stuff packs--they are useless IMO). For Sims 3, I only have 2 EPs because times are kind of tough financially. I wonder how many people are the same, and with the "recession" that has not ended are going to think very critically before spending (again US) $60.00 or more for Sims 4. (and for EPS at $40/pop). I realize games get more expensive and seem to be right around $60 bucks for console games new but I have see so many comments like "I am not paying XXX for this watered down game."

"If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went." Will Rogers
Lab Assistant
#284 Old 4th Sep 2014 at 5:40 PM
Not a thread I really wanted to read this early in my day. My God people, lighten up and stop the bitching about "This doesn't have THIS or THAT". I liked Sims 1, Adored, Sims 2, and mostly hated Sims 3. I did buy Sims 4 the other day and its not that bad. Yes, some things are gone. Babies.. who cares, in past games I wished I could fast forward them into toddlers to avoid dealing with them. Pools, I am sure they will come in later, my day isn't ruined because they are gone. Trash compactors and other junk, not a big loss. Yes, I am somewhat unhappy that some things aren't in the base game. However, the game is fine and its fairly well done.

So either buy it, or don't, but stop with the whining and bitching.
Test Subject
#285 Old 4th Sep 2014 at 6:06 PM
well my day is ruined as i don't own a PC.... Hopefully they will release a Mac specific version as TS3 on mac is pretty buggy but i was looking forward TS4!
One horse disagreer of the Apocalypse
#286 Old 4th Sep 2014 at 6:25 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Neodarkside
So either buy it, or don't, but stop with the whining and bitching.


I'd like you to stop with the aggressive tone.

"You can do refraction by raymarching through the depth buffer" (c. Reddeyfish 2017)
Scholar
#287 Old 4th Sep 2014 at 6:41 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Neodarkside
Not a thread I really wanted to read this early in my day. My God people, lighten up and stop the bitching about "This doesn't have THIS or THAT". I liked Sims 1, Adored, Sims 2, and mostly hated Sims 3. I did buy Sims 4 the other day and its not that bad. Yes, some things are gone. Babies.. who cares, in past games I wished I could fast forward them into toddlers to avoid dealing with them. Pools, I am sure they will come in later, my day isn't ruined because they are gone. Trash compactors and other junk, not a big loss. Yes, I am somewhat unhappy that some things aren't in the base game. However, the game is fine and its fairly well done.

So either buy it, or don't, but stop with the whining and bitching.


Mootilda just died. I went on to see her posts - I don't know, to say goodbye, I guess. It's tough hearing that someone you admired has just died. And you know what her last post was? Or more to the point, *when* it was posted? The day she was admitted to hospital. She died of a horrible disease, probably in pain, most assuredly before her time, and yet, one of the last things she did on this Earth was having to do with Sims.

Was it that important, to do that? Did she have to do it? Was there any sort of obligation? Was there escapism in that act? Relief? God, I hope she'd found some. I hope she also saw that her tools are now almost integrated within the new game. Almost, cause, of course, Mootilda gave us real basements for TS2, while these guys didn't for TS2 nor TS4. I hope she saw how appreciated what she did for us was. So much so that her tools are now in TS4, *almost* entirely.

See, Neodarkside, respect goes to those who do things with passion and not $$ in their hearts. Whining and bitching goes to those that peddle their goods, unless they do good. No toddlers, no pools, no moveobjects on cheat(?!), no basements of any kind, let alone the real ones? Please! The sad reality is: the Sims' charm can't compensate for core gameplay and design features. But much sadder is Mootilda's death, at least it is to me. Because, when it comes to Sims, I can always go back, now to two really good games. But people, they simply go. No going back.

So to re-cap, Mootilda and her ilk - the helping, innovative and plain simply stubborn modders, that never know when to quit when it comes to their love for this silly, silly game - they deserve our praise, our respects and our admiration. EA deserves our money, and only if and when they deliver.

The overwhelming judgement seems to be that it under-delivered. It fell short of a completed product, many swear. I believe *them*.

The best thing about a good thing is that it inspires a better thing. ♥ Receptacle Refugee ♥
Test Subject
#288 Old 4th Sep 2014 at 7:20 PM
I don't think this game will flop. It has a lot of nice features that everyone is complaining about because they don't know how to use them yet. That and the fact that this is a base game. TS2 didn't come out with the YA age until University came out. Toddlers will come in time. Babies will become un-demonized in time. Pools will return. All that we know and love of the sims franchise will slowly return.
Jesus people, the game has been out for three days. GIVE IT SOME TIME.
Top Secret Researcher
#289 Old 4th Sep 2014 at 7:40 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Kgris001
I don't think this game will flop. It has a lot of nice features that everyone is complaining about because they don't know how to use them yet. That and the fact that this is a base game. TS2 didn't come out with the YA age until University came out. Toddlers will come in time. Babies will become un-demonized in time. Pools will return. All that we know and love of the sims franchise will slowly return.
Jesus people, the game has been out for three days. GIVE IT SOME TIME.


Call me Negative Nancy but EA has made no such claims about bringing toddlers or pools. Is it in everybody's best interest? Of course. But we have no idea if they will actually deliver.

So unless you know something we don't....

On a side note, the game's received abysmal user scoring on Metacritic. http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/the-sims-4

Edit: I'm also one of the people that say this game really under-delivered. It receives a Meh out of Feels from me.

Not-so-daily TS2 downloads @ my simblr.
Lab Assistant
#290 Old 4th Sep 2014 at 7:49 PM
Eh, I'm onn the fence. The amount of people pirating the game is AMAZING for such a short time - even newcomers to the series got into the hype due to the enthusiasm being shown by those doing it. That being said, even people who hate EA and would rather steal are so excited they brought newcomers. I think it will be a modest success but nowhere near the previous incarnations.
Lab Assistant
#291 Old 4th Sep 2014 at 8:04 PM
I'm kind of surprised by the lack of reviews in general on Amazon, there are less than 200 at the time of my post. I know it's early, but Sim City and Sims 3 had way more feedback than that by this time.
I don't know what that says about sales, maybe not anything at all, but it's still less than 200 reviews. Actually, it's probably more like 150 since at least 50 of those reviews are guaranteed to come from EA and not real customers.
Lab Assistant
#292 Old 4th Sep 2014 at 9:52 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Inge Jones
I'd like you to stop with the aggressive tone.


I am not trying to be aggressive or insulting others for their choices, but from the start this game is getting negative feedback. Yes, lots of things are missing from it from the start. Its EA's marketing strategy, they will slowly offer bits of what we all had in the old games with all the expansions little by little. It sucks, but it works. However, just scroll back thru the last few pages. Everyone who said give this game a chance or even said anything positive about Sims 4 has gotten negative feedback, while everyone who bashed it got positive. Just tired of that. (Edit: yes its not feedback, its just agree or disagree, still most of the posts are about all the negative things)
Field Researcher
#293 Old 4th Sep 2014 at 9:56 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Kgris001
I don't think this game will flop. It has a lot of nice features that everyone is complaining about because they don't know how to use them yet. That and the fact that this is a base game. TS2 didn't come out with the YA age until University came out. Toddlers will come in time. Babies will become un-demonized in time. Pools will return. All that we know and love of the sims franchise will slowly return.
Jesus people, the game has been out for three days. GIVE IT SOME TIME.


The problem is the "give it some time" attitude, because EA will charge for all of this before giving us a complete and robust gaming experience out of the box. I for one don't care because the Sims is one of the few legitimately enjoyable gaming experiences I have and one of the few games I will constantly keep going back to, but it's still a crappy business model and even as someone who buys into it pretty much hook, line and sinker, I don't like that they do this to us every single time. While to some degree, I feel like the EP business model is the only way to reasonably do a life simulator like the Sims, but they could handle it much better than they are.

It's a slap in the face to release a base game with so few features, not just pools and toddlers, but the things they DIDN'T tell us about, like dishwashers and trash compactors and video game consoles and NPCs (well, I didn't hear they were dropping any of that stuff). This is even worse than the Sims 3 launch and that was pretty bad as I recall.
Test Subject
#294 Old 4th Sep 2014 at 10:05 PM
Been playing it off and on for the past couple days....Still not liking the styling of the game...looks too cartoony....but I still don't hate it.....I will still probably play it. I do miss a lot of the features TS3 has tho. Still don't think it will flop....EA will still milk it for a while.
Instructor
#295 Old 4th Sep 2014 at 10:06 PM
Quote: Originally posted by itzaguy
As someone who is playing it now, I will say it won't flop. The game is also smooth, with little to no load time, and it is not very taxing on the computer, unlike sims 3 which chugs along even with a beast of a computer.

To be fair, Sims 3 did not lag with just the base game installed. I ran it on a 80 gig hard drive with the bare specs for the game and had no trouble at all.

Quote: Originally posted by CooCooCoo
Agh I'm really disappointed right now.

Maybe because I live in a country with bad economy, i don't understand how people can pay 60$ for a mediocre game and be happy and say things like "but it's just the base game" or "Wait for more expansions, so you can give them 120$ more for stuff we already had in pevious base games!".
The dollar is very expensive here 1dollar= 11$(that is the "legal" exchange rate) but in the black market is 14$. So if i'm gonna pay 60$ (or 650$ + taxes) it's better be a friggin epic game, not some half assed, rushed game.

And you know what i hate the most? The lies. EA lied in our face, they told us that all the clipping and routing issues that we saw from the sims camp footage was because it was a beta build - it's a lie. 10 months ago simgurugraham told us in an interview that toddle and cars were going to be in the game - another lie.
This game is shameless moneygrab. Think about that please.

Rant over and now i'll procced to play with my dumb emotionless non multitasking sims 3. Arrivederchi!

Thanks. I enjoyed your rant. This is what I'm saying. They lied to us about what would be in the game. That and that alone is enough to never give EA another cent.

Quote: Originally posted by Neodarkside
I am not trying to be aggressive or insulting others for their choices, but from the start this game is getting negative feedback. Yes, lots of things are missing from it from the start. Its EA's marketing strategy, they will slowly offer bits of what we all had in the old games with all the expansions little by little. It sucks, but it works.

No, it doesn't work. I am not buying the game. Fool me once, shame on them. Fool me twice, shame on me.

Is it not better to be counted among the strange rather than the incurably stupid? ♥ Receptacle Refugee ♥
Field Researcher
#296 Old 4th Sep 2014 at 10:08 PM
Quote: Originally posted by suralargonus
Been playing it off and on for the past couple days....Still not liking the styling of the game...looks too cartoony....but I still don't hate it.....I will still probably play it. I do miss a lot of the features TS3 has tho. Still don't think it will flop....EA will still milk it for a while.


I kinda like the cartoony style, but that's an opinion thing. They'll let this game live out its long EP life like the Sims 3, I seriously doubt they'll abandon it. The only way I would be completely furious is if they decided "welp, this launch didn't go well, let's work on the Sims 5" and not make any (or very few) EPs.

Once, though, just once, I would like them to release a base game with pets, college and seasons.
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