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Theme Catchup2018 - posted on 1st May 2018 at 1:50 PM
Locked thread | Replies: 663 (Who?), Viewed: 87202 times. | Locked by: tiggerypum Reason: go find the NEW thread and tools, link in first message
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Instructor
Original Poster
#1 Old 18th Jan 2006 at 1:51 PM Last edited by tiggerypum : 10th Jan 2007 at 10:34 AM.
Default UniMesh plugins for MilkShape (2005 Support Thread)
Tiggerypum Edits in:

This thread is the support thread for the year 2005 and original Unimesh Plugins. The most recent thread and plugins and support are here:

http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?p=1539511

(end edit)



It is gonna be a busyday but I will try to do some experimenting when I get home from work.
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Lab Assistant
#2 Old 18th Jan 2006 at 2:06 PM
I have the day off- I will be experimenting away!

C.A.R.E
Consider, Appreciate, Respect, Everyone (everything)
"The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking."- John Kenneth Galbraith
"There is only on thing more painful than learning from experience and that is not learning from experience."- Archibald McLeish
Test Subject
#3 Old 18th Jan 2006 at 2:15 PM
I've been waiting for this and it's in perfect timing! ^___^
Test Subject
#4 Old 18th Jan 2006 at 3:50 PM
Love you wes!

~Charlie


I Do not take ANY requests!

Visit my TSR FA site!
Test Subject
#5 Old 18th Jan 2006 at 4:03 PM
Is it possible to animate hair meshes with this Unimesh plugin? If so how? And how do you add animations to previously made hair meshes? It's not mentioned in the manual.

~Charlie


I Do not take ANY requests!

Visit my TSR FA site!
Test Subject
#6 Old 18th Jan 2006 at 4:06 PM Last edited by grizelda : 28th Mar 2006 at 4:07 PM.
I can't wait till I get off work tonight for this! Love To Wes!
Lab Assistant
#7 Old 18th Jan 2006 at 4:11 PM
Wes delivers! Diving in now =)

/bow

List of downloads here
Test Subject
#8 Old 18th Jan 2006 at 4:55 PM
Thanks for this, Wes! I'm so excited! I'm working now and can't wait to get finished and test these out!


~ Sue ~

My Site: http://www.ts2creations.com - Free Sims2 Downloads since December 2005
Admin of Randomness
staff: retired moderator
#9 Old 18th Jan 2006 at 8:00 PM Last edited by tiggerypum : 13th Feb 2006 at 8:59 AM. Reason: Resolved
Hair mesh transparency issue - and I can't spot anything in the imported gdmc that looks that 'different' from the old mesh.

Just last night I built this hair using the old tools, so I had the original gdmc and such already sitting. This looks like a transparency/layer issue to me. I have double checked all the bones and made sure they're all 100%. Btw, none were off by more than 1-2%. I also looked at the transparency settings which look like the same hex I was editing in by hand.

I did not actually edit this mesh aside from checking and repairing the bone weights. As such there is the expected gap at the hairline, because this is a conversion of girl to boy hair. Ignore

I did install this newest version of the tool Wes and redid it, results seem the same. I've packaged the fresh meshes, etc, and all the bits are also there in the folder that were used to build the teen mesh. The adult non-animated version of the mesh (using old method) is also included.

What is nice to see, even with this issue, is that the hair does look like it is animating nicely, and I'm sure this interesting effect will be solved

RESOLVED

Indeed, I needed to select ALL the vertices and assign them to 100% head to start with (best was to use the select all from the menu, apparently I had backfaces turned off, thus one of my attempts failed). Also, I made sure the 100% setting was the first bone listed in the box.

Then I did go an edit the longer parts of the hair to be assigned in a nice balance ranging from spine2 to head.
Screenshots
Test Subject
#10 Old 18th Jan 2006 at 9:00 PM
Hi, I'm having a problem with the mesh showing up in BodyShop. I did my UV_mapping in Lithunwrap and exported the extra bits I added as an .obj. I then imported the base body using your new tool and added the extras to this. Everything exported lovely. However, when I open BodyShop, the body is not there and I only see the head. I go back to check to see if anything is wrong in Milkshape, but everything is fine. However, I open it in Lithunwrap to check the UV_Mapping and everything is askew. I've attached a photo. Thank you for this tool! :wave:
Screenshots
Test Subject
#11 Old 18th Jan 2006 at 9:57 PM
Default Hair meshing
I have the transparency problem aswell and with the secondary bone assigned parts not showing up. Heres my problem, I don't think I would call the manaul a full tutorial. I could use a little more detail, wes, you have done a great job so far. And I think we all need a proper tutorial on how to assign secondary assignments on both body and especially hair.
Screenshots

~Charlie


I Do not take ANY requests!

Visit my TSR FA site!
Alchemist
#12 Old 18th Jan 2006 at 11:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Salvatore
Hi, I'm having a problem with the mesh showing up in BodyShop. I did my UV_mapping in Lithunwrap and exported the extra bits I added as an .obj. I then imported the base body using your new tool and added the extras to this. Everything exported lovely. However, when I open BodyShop, the body is not there and I only see the head. I go back to check to see if anything is wrong in Milkshape, but everything is fine. However, I open it in Lithunwrap to check the UV_Mapping and everything is askew. I've attached a photo. Thank you for this tool! :wave:


I am NOT an exert on Lithunwrap at all. However, if you are importing an .obj file, you need to bone assignments. Check and see if the vertices have a bone assignment; no bone assignment on a part would make it invisible, no bone assignments on the whole body would make it completely invisible.
<* Wes *>

If you like to say what you think, be sure you know which to do first.
Alchemist
#13 Old 19th Jan 2006 at 12:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChazDesigns
I have the transparency problem aswell and with the secondary bone assigned parts not showing up. Heres my problem, I don't think I would call the manaul a full tutorial. I could use a little more detail, wes, you have done a great job so far. And I think we all need a proper tutorial on how to assign secondary assignments on both body and especially hair.


Well, in my defense, I never called it a tutorial. For the Sims 2 game, ot would look like a book. I did try to explain how the plugins and helper plugins work.

I can't do much on the transparency issue without the "bad" gmdc to look at. I have some "surgical tools" I built that help me see what is really inside the GMDC, and that helps me figure out what went wrong. A good GMDC (or, if it is a standard, the name or ID numbers for it) would be a lot of help, too.
I am on my second attempt to download TiggeryPum's attachment (2Mb+). I frequently get truncated downloads from this site, perhaps it is my slow dialup connection.
<* Wes *>

If you like to say what you think, be sure you know which to do first.
Test Subject
#14 Old 19th Jan 2006 at 12:32 AM
All vertices are indeed assigned to a bone so I'm not sure what the problem could be. Thank you for the response though! ^__^
Instructor
#15 Old 19th Jan 2006 at 12:48 AM
Sweet, new toys! I'll grab this when I get home, and give it a spin. Thanks for everything, Wes!

Be sure to stop by Warlokk's Tower Workshop to see my latest creations!
Need help with the Bodyshape Sets? Bodyshape How-To Tutorial updated 11-18-06
Scholar
#16 Old 19th Jan 2006 at 2:24 AM Last edited by Dr Pixel : 19th Jan 2006 at 2:31 AM.
Since everybody was having problems with hair, I decided to try that first too.

I won't bore you with the details, I did about the same thing that tiggerypum did.

The only other thing I tried was to correct the assignments that did not add up to 100 - none were off by more than 1%, and correcting them made no noticable difference.

I did notice a significant filesize difference after I put the new GMDC back in the MESH .package.

Original filesize = 187k
After replacing the GMDC it is 131k

I used the curly haired mesh, since it is the most complicated one I have run across (7 layers)

If you want the files, I can attach - but I doubt that they would download any better.

Anyway, what it looks like to me is that some of the inside hair groups are not "layering" properly - that is, the layers should over-ride each other according to the "alpha" number - the highest layer should over-ride everything (including the face) and of course the inside layers should over-ride only the other inside layers and never the face.

But it seems like parts of the inside layers are over-riding everything. As you can see in the pics, if I rotate the veiwing angle of the Sim this over-riding changes position too.

Oh, I also checked in the game just to see what would happen there - as with other mesh glitches, it isn't quite as bad - the over-riding area isn't quite as big. But sections of the hair do still over-ride everything.

On second thought, I will attach mine since it is only around 500k maybe it will download better.

In the .package is the haircolor file, the MESH .package with the GMDC that was sent in/out of MilkShape with the plugins (no edits) and also the original un-modified Maxis GMDC.
Screenshots
Download - please read all instructions before downloading any files!
File Type: zip TestMesh.zip (508.3 KB, 211 downloads)
Alchemist
#17 Old 19th Jan 2006 at 12:10 PM Last edited by wes_h : 19th Jan 2006 at 12:33 PM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Pixel
Since everybody was having problems with hair, I decided to try that first too.
I did notice a significant filesize difference after I put the new GMDC back in the MESH .package.

Original filesize = 187k
After replacing the GMDC it is 131k


The file size difference has been there since BodyChop. I took the extra padding out of the way that the final section is built. Today, I put it back in, to test. That's not the issue.

There is something very unusual about the construction of hair meshes.
At the tail end of each GMDC file is a complex list of the triangles of the mesh, sorted by bone, then relocated back to local coordinates the same way the bones are handled. That's why the comments in the joints saving the original quatrature are so important (those seven values are used in a complex translation and rotation routine).

TiggeryPum's mesh makes use of 7 bones:
spine2, neck, head, f_hair, r_hair, l_hair and b_hair.

I checked this, manually, between my homemade dissection kit and a hex editor. Every one of these bones, using the translation table for each of the groups (which changes from group to group), is used in the mesh.

The "Master Model" (P5) only shows 6 bones used (b_hair is shown empty). And the object counts for each bone are way off from my counts. They show a total of 3,432 parts-pieces. I come up with 1,323 total. There are actually only 956 triangles in the mesh, but some get counted more than once, because sometimes the three vertices are not all assigned to the same bone, and since there are multiple bone assignment values, some triangles get repeated.

This is a major variance between the way the body and object GMDCs are constructed. And I don't have an answer for why it is this way. But the problem is in the bone assignments and weightings used. Perhaps the answer lies inside the CRES file, which can translate and rotate any part of an object.

I have been unable to find any data differences in the file layout that would make hair meshes look any different than body, object or clothing meshes. I've been studying the layout of the GMDC for a long time, but this one breaks the rules. And I suspect that Dr. Pixel's example suffers from the same issues.

How the mesh, constructed the way it is, actually works in the game is a mystery to me. It isn't tig's construction technique, because I get the same problem by simply overriding the original mesh design with an edited one.

If you put a GMDC in a .package file (nothing else needed) in downloads with the original TGI values (group 0x1c0532fa, etc.), it will 'overwrite' the values from the game directory mesh of the same TGI and globally change all clothing based on that mesh, for example the all the t-shirt/boxer shorts in men's underwear use one base mesh, and when you override the mesh definition, it changes all of them.

I'm going to do some more research, but I've been at this for the last 10 hours or so straight and can't see why hair meshes don't follow the same rules that other objects do.

We never had this problem when we only could use a single bone assignment. We may have to reconstruct the hair mesh assignments by hand.

There is a control in the comments for each group that says "NumSkinWgts: 3" Changing that to a 1 makes a single bone assignment GMDC output. Exporting and then reimporting this will make an easier base to begin from.

I am quite discouraged with the problem right now. I'd like to see someone make a nifty body model and show it off. The screenshot is a nightlife clothing item I edited the mesh on (but I only pulled the chest out a bit). I used the method Neptune Suzy discusses in her tutorial. In the meantime, I have posted notice in the first message that this is unreliable with hair meshes.

<* Wes *>

If you like to say what you think, be sure you know which to do first.
Alchemist
#18 Old 19th Jan 2006 at 3:00 PM
Default Animation and the hair meshes
It appears that special work has been done by the Maxis wizards to animate hair.
Because of this, the bone assignments and weightings imported by the Unimesh plugins will not work exported as is, as can generally be done with other types of meshes.
Once you have imported a hair mesh, select ALL the vertices (you can use select all in the edit menu.
Then from the vertice menu, select the UniMesh Bone and skin weight tool. Change the top box to weight 100% and bone index head (7), change the other two weights to 0%, which will then say {no joint}. Click on apply to all, then click on Commit All.
Now save the file, and you can do your first trial export.
I was able to rid Tiggerypum's invisible patches and such this way.
Now you can experiment with selecting sections of the hair mesh and adjusting the bone assignments and weightings to split between the head and other bones.
But, when I experimented with assigning some weighting to b_hair to some of the pony tail in her mesh (above), I started to have unwanted interactions with the animations.
I think that the b_hair, f_hair and so on are not bones, but animation points. And I think that these are setup in the CRES section for the actions needed to animate the hair when it spins around.
This is something that needs some more research. Until we were able to import the weightings, we were never able to see the effects.
So you CAN use the UniMesh importer/exporter with hair meshes. With the bones reweighted to the head and neck, everything looks like you'd expect. When the body turns, the hair moves with it. No holes or gaps.
I have to go tend to my cows now, so I will work on some more research later. Maybe someone else can help out, or even start a seperate thread on research results for hair meshing.

<* Wes *>

If you like to say what you think, be sure you know which to do first.
Scholar
#19 Old 19th Jan 2006 at 4:52 PM
OK, I'll try re-editing my hair mesh as you suggest and see what happens.

In the meantime, I did a quick test on a body mesh, with mixed results.

A quick, no-edit, in/out with the plugins works perfectly, except of course for the visible body seams.

But, if I try welding the seams together, the UV_map goes crazy.

I have attached pics to show what happens. This doesn't happen immediately, while in MilkShape the UV_map still looks correct after welding - but if I export back to a GMDC, and then re-import this modified GMDC the texture map looks like in the attached picture.

It also maps this way in BodyShop.

For each test, I re-started MilkShape and re-imported the original, un-altered Maxis GMDC.

I first used the "seam" finder plugin to find the seams, then un-selected those at the bottom of the skirt to avoid the darkening.
I exported, re-imported, and it looks like the pic.

Also the "fat" morph group explodes (see pic)
The Sim also explodes in BodyShop if I change it to "fat". The "normal" body looks fine in BodyShop other than the misplaced texture mapping, no darkening at the bottom of the skirt and no exploding.

Next I tried manually selecting the whole mesh, then un-selecting the hem of the skirt and welding. I did this separately to the main body group, and to the "fat" group. I exported and imported again - again the same uv_map distortions.

Finally I deleted the Milkshape folder, and re-installed MilkShape to get the original versions of the plugins. These produce the same uv_map distortions if I weld, but no exploding fat morph.

It looks like the vertex welding is also somehow welding the uv_map co-ordinates of duplicated vertices - but this isn't happening in MilkShape, it must be somehow happening during the export.

I used the "Bella Goth" dress mesh for the experiments - it does include a bump-map, if that matters?

I will try again with a non-bump-mapped mesh later - but now I must be off to work.
Screenshots
Test Subject
#20 Old 19th Jan 2006 at 5:38 PM
That's the same exact problem I am having.
Alchemist
#21 Old 19th Jan 2006 at 6:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Salvatore
That's the same exact problem I am having.


Normally, MilkShape won't export duplicated vertices with different UV coordinates. So you can never weld them together.
The way the Sims2 is textured, the front and back pieces are seperate, and thus require duplicate vertices, each with a different UV coordinate.
However, in prior versions of MilkShape, there was no choice, duplicate vertices were merged prior to export, and the normals of the two were combined. Places like the seam at the bottom of the t-shirt/boxer shorts got combined, and you ended up with a normal halfway between toward the front and toward the back, or more-or-less downwards. That caused the shadows that people complained about at the dress hem, etc.
So, we need to keep these vertices duplicated, so that the triangles that face inward, toward the legs, have their own set of normals that point inwards, and the ones on the front of the t-shirt, or the dress hem, have their own normal the points outwards. Now the item renders correctly.
If you weld the clothing seams together, you get maps that cross like you saw, Salvatore (and Dr. Pixel).
Prior standard practice was to weld all, and then smooth all.
Now, doing a weld all on Sims 2 meshes is not a good move. You either need new texture maps and a different UV scheme, or just not weld areas that are to be covered with clothing.
That's the reason the seams were there in the first place.
If you want to smooth naked skin areas, welding them would hurt nothing.

As for the fat morph exploding, that probably happened again because when you welded the model, you didn't end up with the same number of vertices in both models.

I have an unwelded model that goes fat or thin with no problems. I have the thin version posted on the screenshot.

So we have a new product, and a new approach to modelling, that will result in having to do things we didn't have to do before, and avoid practices that will damage our model.

As for modding morphs, the best approach would be to note the names of the old morphs (copy the comments for the MORPHMOD), then delete it and make the base model like you want it.

When you finish that, make a copy of it, give the copy the correct name (e.g. "~00MORPHMOD.0"), set the comments up for the morph, and then only MOVE vertices to get your fat or pregnant look.

I changed the name because the MORPHMOD does not need any bone assignments. If you put any in there, the exporter ignores them. The bone assignments and skin weights are in the base model, or models.

The Hula girl has two base groups, and each has their own morphmod. And each has their own set of bone assignments and skin weights.

So forget "Weld All". If you want smooth arms, you're going to have to extract your texture map and apply it, and use the seam finder, deselecting the duplicates that have clothing on them. They were never visible before because MilkShape would not export the duplicates. Now it will, and you can ruin your model quickly welding everything together.

<* Wes *>

If you like to say what you think, be sure you know which to do first.
Admin of Randomness
staff: retired moderator
#22 Old 19th Jan 2006 at 7:17 PM Last edited by tiggerypum : 13th Feb 2006 at 9:04 AM.
Wes, I did what you said (assigned all the bones to head) and that's in my 2nd screenshot, but the mesh still displays with the transparency issues. I can try it again.
I had all the mesh pieces visible at the time, do I have to do bone assignments on each part separately?

-- Apparently I had ignore backfaces selected when I had tried to reassign the vertices the first time, which is why my attempt to fix did not work. I got it working, the mesh is great. Will be posted soon as I can package up all the bits.
Alchemist
#23 Old 20th Jan 2006 at 3:44 AM Last edited by wes_h : 20th Jan 2006 at 5:18 AM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiggerypum
Wes, I did what you said (assigned all the bones to head) and that's in my 2nd screenshot, but the mesh still displays with the transparency issues. I can try it again.
I had all the mesh pieces visible at the time, do I have to do bone assignments on each part separately?


I don't think you did it the way I listed it there. It takes but a few seconds to assign everything to the head. backup your work ahead of time. All the extra bone assignment and weighting data is saved in the regular .ms3d file, but not in the ascii version. The native "save as" is your best approach.
From the edit menu, use "select all". That selects the faces, too, but that won't affect the Bone Tool, because it only works on the bone and skin weights of the vertices.
Start with the first vertice, #1 of XXX and scroll the bone in the top box up or down to "head" (bone #7). Set the weight to 100%.
Set the weights for the next two bones to 0, which automatically defnes it as {no joint}.
Click "Commit".
Then click on "Apply to all". That makes the data for the current joint the same for all the joints.
Then click on "Commit all".
Then save, and export.
Now you have a hair mesh that will act like the old ones, w/o missing triangles and such. I did this to your model just fine.
Take your newly exported GMDC, go to your package, select the gmdc, right-click and select replace. Click "commit", then "Save".
The name of the GMDC may have changed (the exporter makes one up from the filename you selected for export).
It is not necessary to rename a GMDC back to it's original name, especially in custom work, although it harms nothing.
The Scenegraph finds the GMDC by number, not name. I posted a note as such as a comment on Suzy's tutorial. Copy the instance number from the reference section on Sims04.package, past it into the filter, and then open Sims03.package, and the GMDC you want is there. The fact that Maxis used a naming convention is helpful, but like all work, rules sometimes aren't followed.

Now, if you want to try your hand at more complex work on the GMDC, go through the bones one at a time and get rid of the b_hair, f_hair and other non-bone definitions. Readjust the weightings to get the same proportional split you had before between, say the head and spine2. You may want to do this after a test run with the all head bone assignment.

There are magic things we don't yet understand involving the animations and such in the CRES that were put into those hair meshes after the original model was built. Some sort of post-processing of the hair mesh. Until we learn how it works, and can write the proper animations, don't use the GMDC with the b_hair and such definitions still in there.

<* Wes *>

If you like to say what you think, be sure you know which to do first.
Alchemist
#24 Old 20th Jan 2006 at 3:58 AM
Default Welding vertices
In the past plugins, duplicated vertices with different UV coordinates were never exposed in the data sent to the plugin.
This has changed in MS 1.7.7, if the plugin asks for it. Old plugins don't know how, and they get the model the old way. The old interface also combined all the duplicate vertices and smoothed the normals. That made the shadows.
When welding, you can ruin your texturing (the way Maxis did it).
I have two photos attached. One is of the T-short/boxer shorts men's underwear, unmodified, straight from BodyShop.
The second is from the same model in MilkShape, with the "Identify Split Group" tool used on it.
All the red vertices are duplicates.
Whereever the clothing parts are, you need to retain that seam, because if you "weld" or combine the two, the right edge and the left edge will be the same point.
When you bring the mesh back into the game, there will be bare flesh along the line where there used to be clothes.
It should be OK to weld the bare flesh parts, reducing the seams you see on bare arms and legs.

There is a lot more control in your hands with these new plugins that in the old ones, and the "welder" used indiscriminately can damage your work.

<* Wes *>
Screenshots

If you like to say what you think, be sure you know which to do first.
Instructor
#25 Old 20th Jan 2006 at 8:49 AM
For now, the only workaround I found to this issue with the welding of the seams is the following : keep a copy of your unwelded mesh for reference, then unweld/weld and smooth everything you need (that is, except the sharp edges you may want to keep); now open your copy in a new window, highlight the the seams with the "Sims2 Unimesh Identify Split Group", and refer to this to select and then unweld the vertices that are uv-mapped separately before exporting - if you re-import the mesh and check the uv-map, it will be okay. I tested that just on the arms, there's no reason it wouldn't work on the rest of the mesh.

If you're a perfectionist and want to lower the vertice count (each vertex unwelded that way transforms into 3 to 6 vertices), after unwelding the seams you can hide opposite groups in turn to reweld the vertices on the edges.

Now, I'm agreeably surprised at how easy it is to get used to these new plugins; the Unimesh Bone Tool is my dream come true, and after very little fumbling I was finally able to add my first properly animated alpha group on a former Body Chop mesh - see pic below, the alpha texture is awful but that was just a test.
Screenshots

Marvine and Beosboxboy at InSIMenator.net and Gay Sims Club 2
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